DeathBug

[quote name='Adahn][b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]I'm already halfway there, aren't I? I change and shift more than you can know, but I do it for my own reasons. I don't think the American public would appreciate it too much.[/color][/font'][/b][/quote] *cough* Blue States*cough Ahem. You might understand, then, why discussing things with you could be less-than-pleasant? If you don't have a clear point...well, then, what's the point?

[quote name='Adahn']I did ask for other people's opinions. As for stating my own, I didn't really have one. I don't ask questions I know the answer to. [/quote] [QUOTE]As for my own opinion, it's rather simple. It says in the Bible that faith has immense power. I believe that, and was just wondering if anybody could support or shoot down the idea of faith from their own personal experiences or knowledge.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]I understand now that there are no real world applications of faith, just as I suspected. If I'm going to find anything, I'll have to do it on my own.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]It means if faith is a real thing, I'm not going to find it here, or in anyone else alive.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]I'll have to look for it somewhere else. It's not here.[/QUOTE] Have you considered getting into politics?

[quote name='Adahn][b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]I understand now that there are no real world applications of faith, just as I suspected. If I'm going to find anything, I'll have to do it on my own.[/color][/font'][/b][/quote] If you'd simply stated your position in the first place and asked for others' opinions, we could have had a much more enjoyable discussion.

Beats me, but it seems that you're trying to drive Siren to a certain conclusion, rather than hearing what he has to say. Why don't you just tell us what you think of faith, then?

What I'm seeing here is that Adhan had a specific response he wanted to recieve in mind, and is going to continue pushing this thread foreward until he gets it.

Never mix the abstract and the literal. The "True Falls" scenario is similar to the "Half empty/full" question. The idea is that, if you think the tree doesn't make a sound, you pecieve reality as created by perception. If there's no one to hear the tree, then how can you say it makes a sound, right? I don't subscribe to that notion, however. To tie that into our warped little corpse man, just because he's dead, that doesn't mean that he ceases to exist. Maybe he doesn't, or maybe we can't percieve his existance. ]

Why do you assume that, because we cease to precieve the dead man, he ceases to exist? If a tree falls in the forest, and no one's around, does it make a sound? Is the man in this scenario dead because a tree fell on him? Maybe he could tell us. Opps...

[quote name='Epitome][size=1][color=SeaGreen]Because thats what he wants his image to be portrayed as. He wouldnt do it, but he wants to look like the badass that no one should mess with. He knows that that look will sell.[/size'][/color][/quote] And why would you, or anyone, want to buy that image? He can sing about reprehensible and disgusting things, but it's okay because "it's just a song"?

[quote name='Epitome']I did, and Im not ashamed to say it. Its a joke. You take his music that supposed to be funny way too seriously.[/quote] Forgive me for thinking some things shouldn't be taken as jokes. Let's be sure to make fun of the mentally handicapped next. Helen Keller jokes all around! [QUOTE]Also, about him raqping his mother and killing homosexuals, you may think its wrong and it is, but the truth is, he would kill homosexuals and he wouldnt rape his mother. So, maybe you shouldnt take this so seriously when listening to his music.[/QUOTE] Tell me, then, what great purpose is served by singing about it?

[quote name='Pumpkin']Oh man. you better stay away from rap then because there is way worse stuff out there then that.[/quote] I do stay away from rap, mostly because the musical refrains are, to me, only slightly more comfortable than having my nails ripped out with plyers. But I'm disparaging the content, not the actual music or rythem, so that's niether here nor there. If there is way worse stuff out there, I will not hesitate to call that as I see it as well. [QUOTE] Basically all the crap gets sent to him and not other artists because alot of the stuff he does talk about (Not beating up women and all that other crap) is truth and about how he views things.[/QUOTE] Oh, so I should feel better because he really is an Edipal homophobe, instead of just playing one for the cameras? Thanks; that makes him seem so much better. [QUOTE]Yeah it might be bad sometimes, but if you just label everything bad without looking into the deeper side in it you'll never get anything.[/QUOTE] If he can't express himself artistically without singing about raping his mother and murdering homosexuals, he doesn't deserve to have people look at the "deeper side" of his "music". Plenty of people, rappers included, can express the same philosphical quanderies without such filth. [QUOTE]There is always a sadness behind every word of anger, it explains him. and that is a gift of the freedom of speech and self expression thats in the Bill of Rights, a part of the constitution. [/QUOTE] And I am exercising my freedom of self-expression, to express my view that his music is garbage. And, quite frankly, I can't figure out why you, as a woman, are defending such misogenestic drivel. [quote name='Epitome']And like on the song "Criminal," thats supposed to be funny, not serious. [/quote] Yes, it was so funny when the woman was begging for her life, and he shot her anyway. Frickin' hilarious. [QUOTE]That is deep in my opinon... I dont know about you.[/QUOTE] Life sucks and I wish this kid had a better home? It's not that deep, and, coming from the same guy who wrote "Kill You", is absolutly ridiculous.

I'm not surprised at all that the singles he releases are more tame than the other songs he sings; pleanty of rock bands do the same thing. Nothing wrong there. But, you know, if you only listened to what Blink or Offspring released on the radio, you'd think they hardly swore. What songs does he write that don't get into the public eye? Well, there we are.

You know what this really comes down to? Would you be willing to pay an additional 25 cents on every chicken product you buy to increase the quality of life for the birds before they're slaughtered? I would, but that's me, personally.

[QUOTE=Eminem, on "Kill You"](AHHH!) Shut up slut, you're causin too much chaos Just bend over and take it like a slut, okay Ma? "Oh, now he's raping his own mother, abusing a whore, snorting coke, and we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?" You god damn right *****, and now it's too late I'm triple platinum and tragedies happen in two states I invented violence, you vile venomous volatile bitches vain Vicadin, vrinnn Vrinnn, VRINNN! [*chainsaw revs up*][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Eminem, on "Remember Me?"]My moms got raped by the industry and made me I'm the illest nigga ever, I told you I get more ***** than them dyke bitches Total Want beef, nigga? PBBT! You better dead that **** My name should be "Can't-Believe-That-Nigga-Said-That-****" Probably sayin, "He ain't a killer", but I'm killin myself Smoke death, **** bitches raw, on the kitchen floor So think what I'ma do to you, have done to you Got niggaz in my hood who'd do that **** for a blunt or two What you wanna do, cocksuckers? We glock busters 'Til the cops cuff us, we'll start ruckus and drop blockbusters[/QUOTE] [QUOTe=Eminem, on "Criminal"]My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge That'll stab you in the head whether you're a *** or lez Or the homosex, hermaph or a trans-a-vest Pants or dress - hate fags? The answer's "yes" Homophobic? Nah, you're just heterophobic Starin at my jeans, watchin my genitals bulgin (Ooh!) That's my motherfuckin balls, you'd better let go of em They belong in my scrotum, you'll never get hold of em[/QUOTE] [i]That's[/i] art? That's garbage.

Well, I'm the youngest person on my staff; I work at Barnes & Nobles' booksellers. It's a totally sweet gig. I'm making $6.75 an hour, get 50% off of cafe food, and 30% off of books. Right now I'm stuck in the cafe, but recent developements mean I might finally get moved to the book floor, which is where I really wanted to work from the beginning.

Kerry today proved himself to be a bigger man than the entire democratic party in '00 put together. Midnight Rush, just shut up. If you want to act like this, don't do it in the name of our party, which is so much better than you're acting.

Well, for those who don't know, President Bush has all but certainly won. He's "over the post" when it comes to the neccessary Electoral College votes, and leads with the popular vote. If the Democrats try to sue, again, it'll be in Ohio. As a Floridian, I'm so frickin' glad we fully went one way. (Bush.) If the democrats really try to sue over such a clear election, which they will, I plan to shoot them. This needs to be over, and lawyering the thing up shouldn't be a tradition. I'm going to remove all political stances from my signiture and myO, so that I can get on with my life. By the way, Siren, it's good to see someone else want to get into politics. Hopefully, you'll be on the right side, and by that, I mean mine. =P

[quote name='Inari'] See, I respect people who want Bush for good reasons, but "Kerry blows" is not a good enough reason for Bush to be president.[/quote] You know, it's funny; that's the only reason Kerry-supporters ever give me for wanting him. =P [QUOTE] I don't care who you vote for (mostly), but I would like the voter turn out rates for young people to increase, so our issues would be considered up there with health care, and social security for the old. [/QUOTE] Preach it! Seriously, those vampires in the AARP are sustaining their lives by sucking the vitality and money out of the young. If we weren't such a traditionally apathetic voting block, politicians would be making sweet political romance to us as well. We wouldn't have to settle for MTV and P-Diddy's crap. Non-partisan my partisan arse. On the other hand... On the other hand, I've never understood the logic behind saying, "Vote, even if it's not for my guy". If I'm voting for my guy, why would I want to encourage people to vote againat him. So, in the futre, please clear your choices with me, and I'll let you know if you should vote or not.

Well, I voted; it's kinda' like mailing away for a cereal box toy: "Include your ballet and proof of ID. Your new president will arrivave in four-to-six weeks." I'm gonna' watch Invader Zim. Yeah.

Well, the Ramones are more punk-ish, but they're still my favorites. Rest in Peace, Johhny.

[QUOTE=James] If your son shoots up his school, [i]don't blame Doom[/i]. [/QUOTE] You really have no idea how much this comment made me smile; I once said almost the same thing in a school debate a bit back. See, I'm skeptical to some of this talk regarding the causes of violence for a simple reason: when I was younger, I fit the exact personality profile of a potentially violent student. Heck, I played Doom behind my parents' backs as young as eight. Yet never once did the thought of hurting anyone enter my mind. There has to be something else there that creates that.

[QUOTE=Corey][size=1] Well, I'm rather curious about why you tore apart a post that basically agreed with you... But to each their own.[/QUOTE] Because I don't agree with many of the points you made in doing so. [QUOTE]My point? Manifest Destiny may be an older term, but the ideal is still very alive today. I'm sure if the opportunity presented itself, the US would gladly scoop up a few more pieces of land outside of the continental US, probably by force. [/QUOTE] Well, considering that the opportunity is ever-present, and no one's tried it yet, I'd say you're wrong. After all, the nation was politically divided simply because some incorrectly interpretted actions in Iraq as imperialist. Most of the nation would reject conquest, myself included. [QUOTE]If he wasn't a reliable souce at all, he be presenting false information instead of correct informatin out of context. Stupid people is another thing the US is famous for.[/QUOTE] I would argue that information taken out of context is just as bad as false information, because both lead to taking actions inappropriate to the situation. And, on a side note, survies have proven that people in Europe and Canadia are just as stupid as Americans. [QUOTE] Moore cares more for selling a copy of [u]Bowling For Columbine[/u] than for showing contexual information.[/QUOTE] Agreed, although Moore also wants people to share his worldview. [QUOTE]American Materialism- Most of the country is pursuing money which can be used to purchase a comfy lifestyle when the smart people only want a house and family. [/QUOTE] Except that people with families want their families to be comfortable. Besides, the allure of money isn't only confort; it's security. People desire security, after all; wouldn't you like to know that if you were a family man and your child was in an accident, you could afford to give them the best treatment availible, without the risk of loosing your home? [QUOTE]Those that take comfort to the excess are materialistic.[/QUOTE] No, because confort is a feeling, and materialism is an obsession with owning things. There aren't that many people who take comfort simply in knowing "I have a Lexus." [QUOTE]Why is it that most of the shootings in the city are robbery related?[/QUOTE] Are they? [QUOTE] Common Sence- See above. If everyone had common sence on a normal level, stupid **** like that wouldn't happen.[/QUOTE] Except what you're talking about isn't common sense; it's values. If a person doesn't think a human life has any value, but a DVD player does, then common sense sees no problem in them killing for it. It's reprehensible, but the point is, common sense isn't the problem here. [quote name='Epitome']That seems like the only logical answer. I guess we as Americans just have that in our "psyche" as Godel said. It would appear that we are just like that...[/quote] No offense intended, but I don't believe that "Just because" is the right answer to any question. I'm very inclined to agree with James' statements regarding families and responsibility. Truthfully, I hadn't stated that because it was a belief based not on data but on personal experience, and I'd just torn Moore apart for not providing facts.

[QUOTE=Epitome] But you have to agree with me that there are MANY more deaths and killings in the US that are gun related than in any other country. [/QUOTE] That's a statement with no context in itself. Proportiontly more deaths? More deaths persiod? More civilian deaths? [QUOTE]But do any of us really know why this happends? No, and thats why Michael Moores film is so "shocking" and "eye opening" because he is really the only one who tried to go into the problem.[/QUOTE] He didn't try to get inside the problem; he already had a theory on why it happened, and his whole movie was him trying to make the audience share his point of view. Hundreds of social scientists and government groups study this problem; why not ask them about it, instead of listening to that fat blowhard exploliting a tradgedy?

[quote name='Corey][size=1']Well a lot of people see the US's involvement in Iraq as merely an excuse to go and grab their oil. [/quote] A lot of people think pro wrestling is real, too. What's your point? [QUOTE]Michael Moore, dispite being a superb shock-film producer, is simply a person that wants to earn money. He does it well. His statistics are shocking.[/QUOTE] His statistics are raw data that lack any sort of context; they're only 'shocking' if you let him take you in. If I say that I've been to Barnes & Nobles' an average of six times each week, you could draw a conclusion from that, probably thinking that I'm buying tons of books or lounging there reading magazines or something. If I tell you that I work at Barnes & Nobles', suddenly the data means something different. Context gives data meaning, and Moore never provides context. [QUOTE] His movies are eye opening. But he misleads. He's not the most reliable source.[/QUOTE] He's not a reliable source at all, and all he opened my eyes to are how stupid some people are. He's clearly an over-hyped political pundit, but he works in a way that's different from columnists, TV talking heads, or radio guys like Limbaugh or Franken. Most pundits 'spin'; they take the news story or event or statement and tell you how it reflects on their cause, for good or bad. The person following these comments always has the option to read the original material and draw their own conclusions. Not so with Moore; as a film maker, he controls exactly what information the viewer recieves, and how it's presented. Then, in addition to that, he gives his spin of it. Documentary my arse. [QUOTE]American gun shooting. Why is it so high? I blame American materialism and the degeneration of common sence.[/size][/QUOTE] Are you going to provide any reasons why you think this? [quote name='Sciros'] Or, even worse, buying guns to protect themselves from the government. I mean, how stupid can you get?[/quote] Well...historically, the first thing dictatorships and such do when they come to power is disarm the citizens; it was one of Hitler's first acts as Chancellor of Germany. And you know what they say about not learning from history? What I find highly ironic is that the people who honestly believe that President Bush's administration is trying to create some repressive Big Brother type government are also against private gun ownership. This has lead me to believe they are idiots. [QUOTE]Basically, people here buy guns with the intent of eventually shooting someone with them. It's true. And so many of them do.[/QUOTE] Then what intentions do people in other places have when they buy guns? [quote name='O-Ushi']If you believe that killing is going to make a problem go away in the country's legal system (probably the most ingrained part of today's society in every country), you would be inclined to belive that it is true outside the legal system.[/quote] First, that doesn't take into account violence in states that don't allow the death penalty. Second, it's an apples and oranges comparison. I allow the government to tax my wages, but I wouldn't allow a private citizen to do so, and I sure wouldn't go anmd do it to someone else. There is a clear line between what people will allow the government to do, and what they allow other private citizens to do. [quote name='Epitome']I hear what your saying. But even if the facts are misleading and out of proportion, they are still true.[/quote] Well, you know, the Sun causes skin cancer; obviously, we'd be better off without it. That fact was misleading and out of proportion, yet it was still true. Was the conclusion that came from it the right one?

First off, if your source is any work of Micheal Moore, you're in trouble. Aside from the fact, as Baron pointed out, the figures are raw data with no thought of proportinality, there are other things to take into account. Of the 4,000,000 guns supposedly in Canadia, how many are owned by private citizens? Of the 11,000 killings in the US, how many were by law enforcement officials in the pursuit of criminals? Because Germany has a militaristic background, does that mean the citizens of Germany embrace it, and are proud of it? Moore films never give context; I don't know the answer to the first two questions at all. Back to the point, I'm from a military background, and I don't know anyone who was personally involved in such violence. Granted, I think the case can easily be made that military officers are much less likely to act stupid and violent for no reason, because they more clearly understand the results of these actions and have a better degree of self-discipline; I like the Swiss model of mandatory conscription. But that's niether here nor there. My point is, unless more reliable facts are brought forth, I'm not likely to jump on the bandwagon that says US citizens are a bunch of bloodthirsty crazies. Moore believes so because he's contemptuous of the average person, and hates the majority of American life, but I think we can get information from a far better source. Godel: Manifest Destiny was the 18th century belief held by most Americans that the American boarder would eventually expand to the west coast simply as a matter of course. What does that have to do with current wiolence?

[quote name='Lalaith Ril'] Obviously if you look at the content you'll realize, I meant Germany. Its not that far of a stretch, is it?[/quote] Well, if you look at the centries-old history of anti-Semetism in Germany, France and Eatern Europe, and compare it to the US, where anti-Semetism is very rare, then yes, it is a bit of a stretch. [QUOTE]Genocide as we now know it, is ultimatly regarded as the gravest of human rights violations, yet in Germany it was ok. Are we to say since it was legal then we should do it again? Is Germany allowed to go kill millions of innocents agian, because it was once legal?[/QUOTE] Well, since Germany is another country, and we're different from them, it isn't comprable; you've shown that different people did different things. [QUOTE]Times change, thats obviouse. Look at America for christ's sake. Should we not have freedom of speach? [/QUOTE] Of course we should. When was this a free-speech issue? Both sides of this debate have had ample avenues to express their opinions. [QUOTE]Being with whom you love is that pursuit of Happiness. I mean think about this, gays arn't even hurting anyone by obtaining this happiness! We're not killing anyone, we're not forcing our believes on anyone, all we're asking is to allow us to live the same life that others can. Is it that hard to accept?[/QUOTE] Not at all; no one has any problem understanding that position. [QUOTE] You know I'm really suprised Christians haven't gone against the whole practice of being married in a church, or atleast tried to get others not to do it. The church has no true meaning in a marriage anymore, its just a way to get money. Its total abuse when it comes to the true Christian faith. It totally defaces the whole entire concept of a union connected by God.[/QUOTE] Okay, now I have issue with you. If you are not a Christian, please don't presume to tell me or other Christians about our faith. I will be married in a chruch, by reverend, because, guess what? It does mean something to me, and my vision of the true Christian faith. [QUOTE]I mean honestly (I can't tell you an exact number, but) around 40-50% of marriages are destined to divorce.[/QUOTE] Then why bother getting married at all? [QUOTE]Marriage is a mockery, period.[/QUOTE] Okay, [b]this[/b] is what I can't understand; if it's a 'mockery' (of...what?), then why do you care? If you see through the whole charade you make marriage out to be, why does it matter if gays are married? I mean, most of them will just divorce, like you said? [QUOTE] What about the gays who want these tax cuts anyways?[/QUOTE] Obviously, they should get them if they're living in a union with one another. To do otherwise would be discrimination. [QUOTE]People are greedy they'll get around your system no matter what, thats a fact. [/QUOTE] My system? [QUOTE]Yes that makes marriage very sacred.[/QUOTE] Again, if it means nothing, why do you want it? It obviouysly means something, or you wouldn't care. [QUOTE]In America "married" means nothing.[/QUOTE] See above. [QUOTE] I can't stand how when it turns to the gay topic marriage is this "holy" or "divine" object. It may have been at one time, but guess what; in America it means nothing.[/QUOTE] This, also, I take issue with. Don't tell me that marriage means nothing. This is the whoile reason I think the government shouldn't be involved: because marriage is sacred and holy, and the government being involved makes it about as important as a speeding ticket. If people didn't think marriage was sacred or holy, why would there be an argument over it? And, again, if it means nothing, why does anyone care at all? [QUOTE]You might as well just go to Las Vegas. Oh and haven't you heard of the website helping couples cheat on eachother. (Sorry I couldn't think of the URL I'm not too keen on cheating ....) Man that makes marriage so sacred. *rolls eyes*[/QUOTE] You make the assumption that Las Vegas liasons and infidelity are just fine and dandy with marriage supporters. What you have proven is that some people think marriage is sacred and some don't. Didn't we know that to start with? [QUOTE]If you want to make marriage sacred, you have other problems to deal with. [/QUOTE] Aren't they your problems to, since marriage means so much to you? [QUOTE]Ignorance vs. Tolerance[/QUOTE] Uh, ignorance and tolerence aren't mutually exclusive, nor opposites. Hitler was a smart man, after all. [QUOTE]Yes I'm calling people ignorant.[/QUOTE] So, you're intolerent of their ignorance? [QUOTE]Its not that hard to imagine, unless you know it is to be gay, guess what you're ignorant.[/QUOTE] Yet you, who aren't a Christian, were more than happy to tell Christians how to run things. You, who don't consider marriage anything sacred, are more than happy to tell those who do that they're wrong. I'm not sure which is worse: bigoted homophibia or condescending and arrogant self-righteousness. I think that marriage is, in fact sacred, even though a good portion of the populence doesnt. In fact, that's exactly why the government shouldn't be involved. I want the decision I come to about marriage to be between myself and my Church, others who see marriage as sacred. Therein lies the problem: as long as marriage is a government institution, the opinions of thousands of others weigh in on what should be a private matter between myself, my church and my God. As usual, government interference screws stuff up.