Plant_Angel

Laputa (when it used to be called that, puta in Spanish is an offensive word 0.o) was the first anime I ever saw. Have you all been watching the new dub with, I heard, Mark Hamill in it? I saw the original dub taped from tv and then the Japanese with subtitles version, has it been Hollywooded up like Mononoke? I really didnt like that, why did the cast Minnie Driver as Lady Eboshi?! And Billy Bob Thornton as the monk guy?!?! Just wrong!! Anyway, I digress, I have a set of Miyazaki, Studio Ghibli, films. Some are quite bizarre, some are brilliant, some are actually rather dull. I reccomend to you Grave of the Fireflies, Porco Rosso and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind and Totoro too! They are the best of the buch.

I agree with Molleta here, it may not be a sexual drive and even if it was Legato doesnt have a ghost of a chance to do anything about it. It does appear to be great admiration, great 'love' in a nonsexual manner, more like the love you would devote to a superior, more than that, to a God. And who does not strive to be loved back by their God?

Hey, Animangademon, please dont be dissapointed but I must decline...Im not desperate to join any clubs and Im not really lonely ^_^ Dont worry though, if I feel the biting loneliness of solitude I will be in touch....sorry bout that. Um, that and I think we have gone a little off topic here....

Heaven's Cloud thats a bit harsh! Or are you trying to make an argument.........? I think Trigun is great entertainment, Vash is a great character (similarities to Kenshin aside) and the rest of the cast are mostly really well realised. The humour is great (more especially when watching with friends), and the characters are great fun, even if you feel they are nothing else. Considering how much they had to chop and change from the manga storyline to fit its 26 episodes, I think it did rather well on the issues it left in and even those it added. The goofyness is fun, but I think it also adds to the later moods the show (tries in some cases) to get across. Just recently though I did see the Samurai X Trust Betrayal and Reflections, Kenshin seems to have the same ideas......now THATS an emotional anime.

Hey Metatron, do you know when Trigun Maximum 9 is due for release? Ive been waiting for it ever since I got book 8 ^_^ Im buying them in Japanese and relying on fan sites and my own (limited) knowledge of Japanese to read through. The anime never goes into the issue of the hair darkening either.....

I have Trigun Maximum, its a continuation of the story rather than a sequel (it follows on from the first three Trigun books), the events at the end of the anime havent happened in the manga and are very unlikely to now. Its following a completely different track with a lot more in in about Vash, Knives and Plants. Oh yeah, and Wolfwood is still alive ^_^ but Im very unsure as to whether Legato is.....

'Shonen ai' literally translates as 'boys love' whereas 'yaoi' will mean 'no point' though is taken as being the same as shonen ai. There are varying degrees of soft and hard yaoi, but they all mean a relationship between two men. I can see your confusion with manga, possibly because of 'Manga Entertainment' which is a distribution company for anime, confusing or what?

Anime is the name for the animated cartoons and the manga is the graphic novels or comic books. ^_^ On the yaoi/shonen ai point, I think that Legato must be horribly frustrated because Im sure Knives wouldnt even consider touching a human being, except maybe to kill it. I think the only being of any interest to Knives in 'that' way or any would be his brother Vash, and even so he might just have the morals not to. Knives seems to have very strong morals himself, he is righteous toward his fellow beings and would to anything to save and protect them......so long as they are Plants and not human beings. He sees humans as lesser than insects, Im sure he doesnt hold much against insects themselves other than to use them as metaphors and of how easily he can crush pitiful humans. Knives cares only for Vash (and his other Plant siblings) which must be torture for Legato who cares only for his 'master' and not his fellow human beings or even himself. The reason Legato was crushed by Knives is that he was so bold as to give the order to kill Vash and Knives dissapproved, to understate it a little, so showed no remorse in crushing his body, but then, his methods towards Vash are rather unsympathetic. To Knives, Vash is a traitor of the worst proportions. I mean, I was watching the Matrix and it made me think of this...If Neo is the hero for wanting to eventually free his fellow humans from their Plant-like captivity, then isnt he a lot like Knives.....?? In that case, Vash is the villian..... Interesting, I thought (actually i hope I havent said that before).

Has anyone else ever been concerned about the Japanese fondness for using school girls in their anime and of the general image of female roles? Not every anime features schoolgirls, I know, but its the ones that do. Female characters will always fall into the category of either submissive or actually insane (or close to), and will talk the most absurd things when in private, for example in Love Hina, the first episode when Keitaro is in the girls hot springs and Naru just talks "oh, Ive been noticing that recently my breasts........" completely randomly!! That and the ridiculously short skirts that are part of the uniform in even the least mature of animes, does it worry anyone about this fascination? Im not one to complain too much about political correctness (I wouldnt watch a lot of anime if I was) but it just made me think when a friend pointed this out.

The manga actually says that Vash has a stronger power than Knives a greater "flow", but, having lived his life as a human, Vash would never have had the need to understand this. ^_^ Maybe Legato just thinks Knives is cute...

I think that Vash is vulnerable to Legatos mind control because Vash really doesnt have a clue about what he is or what he's capable of. He does learn at the end, but I beleive it was Legatos intention that he would... Knives must have sat around all that time just experimenting with his abilities (I mean, he had to go BACK to look for those guns, he must of made them when he was a KID! Meanwhile, Vash would be learning about flowers with Rem). Maybe Legato can control any being with a concious mind, which rules out non-thinking beasts, although perhaps he can but has never seen the need for that. I think Knives is able to resist any power Legato might use with mental blocks, being an explanation for why Legato follows him (either peace of a mind that he cant hear, or absolute awe that there is someone/something that can resist his power). Or at least one possible theory!

Ah! That makes more sense ^_^ Legato is able to trigger the Angel Arm metamorphosis in Vash, but I dont know whether or not this has anything to do with Legato having Vash's left arm. It seems to me (now I get to try out my gun-flashylight-arm theory!) that the secondary fire on both Vash's and Knives's guns are the triggering of the Angel Arm, which seems to be done psychically by the bearer of the weopon-- noting how Knives only had to snap his fingers to make Vash use it back in July. Vash himself only learns to take control of it late in the series, and has full comprehension of this psychic ability by the last episode. Legato, having the power to take control of other people, will have used his ability to make Vash use the mental command to the gun. Note, it is not the gun that transforms, the instructions for the process are inside the gun, and its in reaction to these that Vash's arm begins to change around it (more boring Plant theories I have) There is one thing that confuses me, in episode 24, Legato explains to Vash that his left hand shakes uncontrollably "because it happens to be the very arm that attached your arm to your body" What? Which arm? Legato are you saying you attached Vash's fake left arm to him?? I think Vash had his own right arm from the beginning, he does have a heck of a lot more years to his name than Legato!!

Cowboy Bebop Ed's personailty is based on that, and the mannerisms, of Cowboy Bebops music composer Yoko Kanno (amongst other scores) Who, if anyone, is Ed from EEE based on? Though, I wouldnt have made the connection of similarities myself....

Im not sure, what do you mean by "modify" Vash's left arm??

Hey Animangademon, Knives isnt trying to get rid of Vash, but rather persuade him to join his side. The reason he has assembled the Gun Ho Guns to do his work is because he wants to show Vash how evil and cruel and wasteful human beings are. He could really go to Vash himself, but he wants Vash to discover what he is for himself and decide of his own will to join Knives (Although blowing of his arm was a very unorthodox way of trying to get this point across!! But I reckon that was punishment for Vash shooting him in the leg in the first place) As for how Vash and Knives came about in the first place I beleive they were a complete fluke and the natural "evolution or mutation" (to quote Zazie's manga explanation) of the genetically engineered Plant Angels, my reasons for this, and my supporting references to the anime and the manga, were posted earlier on in this thread ^_^

Ah, the Legato question, it seems there are several theories; 1. Legato only obtained his powers when he got Vash's left arm, however little sense that may seem to make. 2. Loyalty to Knives in a fight for his affection (because he is the only being capable of resisting Legato's constantly prying mind), either romantically or as though he were a God. To be looked upon with affection by your god, who doesnt want that? 3. He had these powers all along and, being the crazy stalker he is, thought it would be an awfully good idea to attach himself the left arm of his prey for him to lick and pet and whatever he likes. Saves a good Plant arm going to waste (My personal theory). Why he follows Knives though, for that question to arise we would have to be assuming that Legato has superior strength/powers to Knives. For that we would also have to understand just how powerful Knives is anyway and what his full abilities (physical and psychological) truly are. I mean, Vash and Knives may have some psychic ability (from activating the guns, to the little chat they had with each other in the last ep and in Diablo) so who knows what they are fully capable of. Whether this was tramsmitted through the severed arm to Legato, I find perhaps doubtful, but not impossible. So what is it that Vash and Knives know (well, maybe not Vash he doesnt seem to have a clue!) that they arent going to show us??

Have you ever heard of or read Lao Tzu's 'Tao Te Ching'? He talks of the three Epochs of humanity and our relations with each other. The first being socialising and working together out of neccesity, the second being a world of logic and mathematics (the point we are at now) and the third being the one we are aiming for, the third Epoch of Unqualified Love (doesnt that sound beautiful??). What Lao Tzu says is that the time WE are in the 2nd epoch (not his time, he was closer to the first) and this is the time in which we have to be the 'midwives' of the third epoch, hopefully before we destroy ourselves. That it is up to us now in the 21st century to begin creating this, now we have the technogoly to prevent starving and suffering, and bring the Great Integrity back into the world. "We're not just going to see it, we're going to create it" I feel that Rem represents Lao Tzu's theory of the Great Integrity, in that there is a beautiful world that we wont see, but the responsibility rests in our hands to create. Its VERY idealistic and would require the whole world to comply, but its very interesting to read ^__^ Its more philosophy than psychology, though. If you do ever read it, you will see how very Rem like it is!

Do Legato and Crimsonnail occupy the same level of power? If that is the reason for Elendiras hatred of Legato, then the fact that she has a number as a GHG and he doesnt must be a festering irritation. Both have no doubt that Knives will succeed and both want to be the one to be last to take their leave, makes sense. Like you say, I doubt that Legato has any worries about Elendira seeing as he not only has he got Knives brothers arm but also he keeps getting called back even though in Maximum 5 he does attempt to kill Vash (receiving those bolts from Crimsonnail for his efforts). Mucho irritation to Elendira that he doesnt die or get punished for this, even though daily life is torture for Legato-sama anyway. I might be feeling pity now, even after what he did in ep 24! Do you know why Elendira is called the Lost GHG? Wondering if you knew any background on that or if she is just as enigmatic as Mr Legato. I wonder what Nightow-sensei's plan for ending this is?, man I can't wait to see what he does!! (Not that I want it to end!) I though you would have seen that site, searching for scans was the first thing I did after I read the manga translations, didnt take me long to decide to buy it though -^.^-

I dont think Rem was comparing Vash to her dead lover more that she just used his hair style for inspiration. This may sound rather cold hearted but maybe Rem was only so attached to Vash because of WHAT he was, she was an engineer herself or had some kind of profession in the field (the Plant engineer in July was related to Rem by either profession or relative, it is unclear what). She may just have been extremely curious the way most scientists are when they discover something they dont understand. Perhaps she only spent more time with Vash than with Knives because, unlike his more independent brother, he was so willing to do so. When Vash tells her he loves her she does not return his sentiment by telling him she loves him too the way a mother/lover/sister would. Vash being little and naive wouldnt understand her scientific curiosity about life and its many forms and very much loved her as a mother and teacher, in my opinion (he refers to her as his 'mother' in the sequence showing what will happen in the following episode before Fifth Moon).

Yeah, I was hoping you didnt mean sexual, I wouldnt see it that way at all, but love as a God, as a superior being, devotion and an admiration of his incredible power and his 'superior' mind is very likely. About the rivalry between Crimsonnail and Legato, its interesting on her loyalty. She has some kind of hope or expectation pinned on Vash but she knows Legato is a formidable person to make an enemy of. I dont think she agrees with Knives but she never seems to show any opinion of him (except that of wide-eyed horror when she sees him merge with the Plant, and who wouldnt?) I think maybe she feels that the immediate threat is from Legato because he is so powerful, it has been said that Elendira is the strongest of the GHG and only Legato stands in her way of........whatever it is she REALLY wants. Elendira stays loyal to Knives though doesnt miss the chance to take out her rage on Legato (book 5, the amount of bolts she fired looked a little overkill if you'll pardon the expression). Perhaps there was a time when killing and domination was appealing to her perhaps because of sexual prejudice towards herself but now it seems she has had enough and that the situation is not what she would previously have wanted. She may now see Knives as the monster he is and hates Legato for what he allows Knives to do both to him and humanity and hates him for not seeing this. Or maybe its a fight for his affections in which case neither of them have any kind of chance whatso-ever..... I wonder if Elendira allowed Wolfwood to board the ship to rescue Vash, or if it was his skill and luck to make it up there.. Its going to be VERY interesting to see what happens in Maximum 9....even if I will only be able to make a judgement by the pictures this time! If youre interested in seeing scans you can go to this site; [url]http://www.hojo.org/trigun[/url] It only goes up to Maximum 6 and there are a limited number of pictures, but its very intereting none the less. I think I might know of some other sites I'll try find the addresses and if they are any good.

I took a look at that scene and several others with your comments in mind and Im still not sure I agree that Legato is in love. It would seem a perfectly reasonable conclusion if it were not for one thing. Legato's coins. Legato has his box of half coins and has something planned for if and when Vash obtains them all by beating ALL the GHG. It very well could have been a look of horror when Knives tells him of Wolfwoods job because its a screw in the works for what Legato has thought out. How is he going to get his coin if they never fight? I dont think it is Legato's idea to stop Knives plan (far from it) but I dont know what he is thinking with his coins, it may have been a mixture of this and that it hurt that Knives would not think of telling him this information. The coins do seem an afterthought and not his purpose from the very beginning so until he reveals what they are for its very hard to say how important they are to his relationship with the two Plants. It could be that they have nothing to do with it. What thinks you on the coins? Legato has a very strong devotion to Knives, but I dont think its physical pleasure that interests him, or pain. It depends on his illusions of how important he is to Knives, because really Knives doesnt care at all.

First anime I ever saw was Laputa-Castle in the Sky and then Akira. I really liked the two, so I decided to get more, the next anime would be the decider of whether or not anime was my thing... I got the Guyver series and loved it ^_^ I was about 12 or 13 then. Now Im 16 and Im addicted to anime!! Not sure about Sailor Moon.......!!!

Oh thanks Spinnelein, Im ever keen to learn ^_^ Are we suggesting Legato and Knives are on more 'friendly' terms.......? Or at least it is Legato's desire to be so. Ooooh, not so sure about that, not so sure at all. Knives sure as heck isnt interested in a different species I shouldnt think. Certainly Legato is a lot more interesting than I had first thought. Do you think in the anime he is showing some kind of sympathy with Vash when he forces him to learn to control the Angel Arm in episode 24? I get that impression more from the subbed than then the dubbed, but its his expression too, weird of him to smile that way. Even though he was probably just overjoyed at fulfilling another of Knives orders.

Hey this isnt a comment on my favourite but... In Trigun did any notice the difference between subs and dubs in episode 25 when Vash is up on the hilltop and Meryl and Millie go to fetch him back? The emotions they have gone for in both languages are so different, it was the only thing that I noticed about differences I dont know if it ever does that in other parts of that series. Trigun is an amazing dub. The Tenchi Dubs really irritate me...Princess thingmy (excuse my ignorance but I forget her name right now....)

Thats me told! That was fun ^_^ Any more opinions on Mr Legato? Emotionally scarring is just decorations for the mind and heart...