Decadence

Retribution, this is what I was basing the capitalist comment on. (It may be bias but it makes sense to me.From another forum I use.) [Quote=hopscotch anthill] Racism is a means of perpetuating class differences. For instance, in early American society white slaves and black slaves were treated equally bad. The result? The whites and blacks intermixed ? joining cultures, marrying, and having children togethor ? and built up strong feelings of solidarity. Then they started to rebel. To squash these slave rebellions the ruling class instituted a division between white servants and black slaves. When blacks alone started to rebel they divided them along the lines of 'field' slaves and 'house' slaves. The same practice is used by the modern ruling class; however, to some extent the ruling class has ended radical racism. The ruling class needs a permanent underclass of poor laborers and a race-based division works well for them but they need live underclasses. This is why Black Liberation would be one of the biggest blows to the capitalists in America.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Legible Rants] Really - "Gun Preacher" - it doesn't matter. People really only have a few things to worry about in life - and it is not what others think of us or do to us. Live your life in the grace and glory of God. [/QUOTE] Ok, so that line probably has to be the most counter-progressive reactionary line in the entire topic so far. By that line of thought what the point of doing anything, voting, fighting racism, sexism, any other negative "ism"? (that is not supposed to be insulting, just bringing up the point that that kind of thought leads to stagnation and no change is things that are moraly wrong, or any other kind of wrong you want to assign to it.) But on to my views, Racism along with sexism, discrimination based on whom you love; age-ism, etc. are all disgusting. I can't say 'Oh I have many black/Latino/Asian friends." but I do have some of each, skin color doesn't really matter to me, if my interests are the same as yours well then we could be friends. (The place I live is mostly white, think of the movie "the stepford wives" (or what ever it was called) and you have around where I live.) And in response to the whole "you speak like a white girl" comment earlier in the thread. Very racist, Very capitalist. Comments like that won't go away until the class system is disbanded. There is no such thing as white talk, black talk, Latino talk. They are accents but attributing them to races is more a mater of where some one lives, which is all a matter of money. Resist, Refuse, Rise up, Revolt!

"They may torture my body, break my bones, even kill me. Then they will have my dead body. Not my obedience!" -Gandhi Sums up my view of life that the only two authorites worth listening to is a just one, and your self. If a tyrant has to kill of his controlled then he has no more controlled and though you may be dead you have still defeated her in ultimate sacrifice.

Sounds quite fun. First off would be Fidel Castro and Che Guevara Vs. George Bush and Dick Cheney. (Two revolutionaries Vs. Two reactionary capitalist.) secondly. Al Frankin Vs. Bill O'Riely (did i spell his last name right?) (Inteligent witty politcal talk show host vs fat blubbering [B]ignorant[/B] blowhard) Third Emma Goldman Vs. Carnigie (Anarchist Vs. Capitalist.)

[URL=http://magicsig.com/][IMG]http://my.magicsig.com/oikc4torl2.gif[/IMG][/URL]

I don't have the time at the moment to read all the posts, but I read most of the first page, and some one mentioned that no one in America goes around painting Jesus on crack. This is true, but I take it you've never scene some of the shirts and pictures in the "Punk music scene" With in the punk scene there is a lot of anti-religious sentiment. Mostly aimed at Christians but that is because they are the largest religion with in the western world. *WARNING* do not look at links if easily offended, or you will take my presenting this information as a personal attack. I?m just pointing out that stuff like this happens here in America too, just not in newspapers. Just felt this would be informative, sorry if this has already been stated. And again my aim here is to inform, not to offend, I leave that to the bands them selves. [url]http://interpunk.com/itemimages3/100717.gif[/url] [url]http://interpunk.com/itemimages3/85433.jpg[/url] [url]http://interpunk.com/itemimages3/99711.jpg[/url]

These baby's already have their idols: Frat boys.

As biased as my opinion is, I do not like the Rotzi's. Though this comes from my dislike of military in general, and the fact that, to me, it is nothing more then government hired professional killers, and having them trained in high school, got to indoctrinate them early you know. And yes I am a pacifist. I do not like the military but I do respect the people in it as much as I don't agree with it.

[color=dimgrey]My title, well to it have any meaning at all it requires you to have some knowledge of the ska scene past and present, either will do. But depending on what time you know of the title has different meaning. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rude_boy[/url] Rude Boy as it is applied to me has more meaning in the newer ska scene sense of the word. But the fashion in the scene remains the same, suits and such. So to sum up, Its my title because I'm really into what people would call the ska scene.[/color]

[color=dimgrey] This is some what an aside, but for all you people who are surprised a record lable is carrying them, there are rascist lables. one example is a lable by the name of Panzerfaust. It carrys mostly skinheads who play metal, but I just thought I'd point this out.[/color]

[QUOTE=Warmaster]You can't "disprove creation" in basically the same way you can't "disprove an underwater "atlantean" race of superhumans with webbed feet living on our planet." Maybe they're just eluding us? It's empty logic, if you know what that is.[/QUOTE] If that is the case, you also can't disprove evolution. And again it is coming down to a book. If you don't want your child being taught evolution, just... er teach them ID at home, and leave the rest of us out of it. Even if the christian social group is the majority, they really need to stop making such a big deal, I'm sorry you lost a court case a good bit of time ago (I can't remember the exact date) and you really need to stop trying to overturn old presidents because you are on power trips. And by the way this ebtire contraversy is probly driving away a lot of people who would have looked into christianity. And warmaster you can't prove ID any more then you can prove we are not in the matrix being harvested as energy sources for robots. I know that isn't much of a contribution, but I really felt the need to say something. And evolution is only a theory, albeit the best one we have, and most probable one. Also how are atheist children supposed to deal with being taught ID when they are told at home a god or gods do not exist? PS: Unless I misunderstood you war. PPS: I keep using the matrix as an example because it is the only thing I can think of that would seem equally absurd to both sides.

[color=dimgrey] Chabichou the human to pig "Myth" is also used in the Odyssey. This does not invalidate your statement, just thought I should bring up the fact that the human to pig idea has been seen before.[/color]

[color=dimgrey]Ok,I ignored PyroGirl's comment before, but the "Deal with it"part really bugged me. If you don't want to be harrassed about being Christian, don't go around announcing it. Simple as that. Also test's don't check what you know, they check to see if you've been listening in class. So you answer as the class dictates, not what you believe. If i beleaved that this world was just a creation of my mind, or that we are in the matirx (as an example) answering that would flunk me. (And get me deleted from the system) But if i answered as the class dictated, it would prove that I payed attention in class, not that I beleaved what they were teaching. PS: The Matrix was used to lighten up this subject. PPS: Also teaching ID makes a test on it moot, because the answer to every question is "A Higher being created it." thats the entire depth of the subject. Unless you want to infuse relegion into it, which lets think about this... yep pretty sure its illegal. So you can deal with "Us Godless Heathens" having control the government. Ps-pps: "Godless heathens" is not to be taken seriously. [/color]

[quote=] "includes bestiality, urination, defecation, as well as sadistic and masochistic behavior."[/quote] [color=DImGrey]Banning porn in general includes banning all afore mentioned subjects. As little as that contributes to this discussion I felt I needed to point that out.[/color]

[color=dimgrey]Just something I thought of, some one really needs to tell Bush (I refuse too see him as my president, not my fault 51% chose wrong) to "stop trying to save my soul for me, I'll either save it my self, or laugh all the way down to hell."[/color]

[color=DimGrey]Ok, while I refuse to label my self (Considered goth/punk/emo) I would like to address the fact Nikoalie thinks goths have to be satanists, this is just not true. A lot of them are atheist or wiccan, but there are also christian goths. relegion has to standing on your "gothic-ness"[/color]

[COLOR=DimGray]The war on porn. That brings to mind, images of soldiers occupying porn studios and peoples home computers, I mean if they can censor porn, whats to keep them from censoring dissenting oppinions, and then other relegions. Its just a downward spiral starting at something pretty low on the moral scale to some people. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=DimGray] Godelsensei I can see what your saying, but, the name really doesn't define what the point of the club is, that's just what the name got submitted as before the founders decided to make it a more pro-tolerance for minorities club. But what happening at this point, is making it quite hard to change the name, if we change the name the parents and such are going to see this as "See they were doing something wrong" thing. Also i was discussing this with some one and they brought up this point. [quote name='St. Petersburg Times']The couple also have turned to their conservative and politically powerful church, Bell Shoals Baptist in Brandon, for help. The church's issues committee has been weighing what to do, but hasn't made a decision yet.[/quote] This family (or at least the parents) are going to a church for aid about a secular issue in a secular school. [/COLOR]

[quote= St. Petersburg Times] Parents: School no place for gay issues; [LATE TAMPA Edition] S.I. ROSENBAUM. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Sep 13, 2005. pg. 1.B __________________________________________________ Abstract (Document Summary) [Mike Dorris] and his wife, Kari, have called and e-mailed everyone from Newsome principal Rebecca Anderson to school superintendent MaryEllen Elia, voicing worries about a club where students would discuss sexual issues. The controversy comes two months after the Hillsborough County Commission banned county government from recognizing any gay pride events. The Commission's move angered gay-rights supporters nationwide and raised the question: Should gay people receive the same sort of protection and acceptance as other minority groups? Gay clubs have been controversial in schools across the country. In August, White County High School in northern Georgia banned all nonacademic clubs, in order to do away with its nascent Gay- Straight Alliance. __________________________________________________ Full Text (834 words) Copyright Times Publishing Co. Sep 13, 2005 Two weeks ago, Mike Dorris found out from his 15-year-old daughter that students at Newsome High School wanted to start a Gay- Straight Alliance. Ever since then, he has been trying to prevent the club for gay students and their straight supporters from forming. Dorris and his wife, Kari, have called and e-mailed everyone from Newsome principal Rebecca Anderson to school superintendent MaryEllen Elia, voicing worries about a club where students would discuss sexual issues. The couple also have turned to their conservative and politically powerful church, Bell Shoals Baptist in Brandon, for help. The church's issues committee has been weighing what to do, but hasn't made a decision yet. "I am not comfortable with my tax dollars being used to sponsor this club," Dorris said in an interview. Students should discuss sexual-orientation issues with their families, or with psychologists, not with their peers in a school- sanctioned club, Dorris said. The couple wants the club to meet after school hours and off school grounds. They also say it should not have a faculty adviser. The controversy comes two months after the Hillsborough County Commission banned county government from recognizing any gay pride events. The Commission's move angered gay-rights supporters nationwide and raised the question: Should gay people receive the same sort of protection and acceptance as other minority groups? Rather than try to quash a gay-straight alliance, Nadine Smith, executive director of Equality Florida, said parents should "be offended at the fact that these students have to deal with harassment . . . that they had to go the extra effort to create a safe learning environment for themselves." If the Dorrises get their way, it would mean that the Newsome Gay- Straight Alliance club would not be a club at all. According to school rules, a club must meet at school, during school hours, with a faculty adviser present, the principal said. Otherwise, Anderson said, "They wouldn't be a club." Under federal law, she said the school must treat all proposed student clubs equally. "You don't encourage, you don't disallow it," Anderson said. Elia, the superintendent, could not be reached for comment Monday. Anderson stressed that the Newsome Gay-Straight Alliance doesn't even exist yet at the school, which is in FishHawk Ranch. Some students have talked with an assistant principal about forming the club and have secured a faculty adviser, she said. But there are many other steps the students need to make: get at least 20 students signed up for the club, draw up a constitution, create a budget, and organize plans for meetings. The school will hold its first "Club Day" - the one day a month given over to student clubs - on Wednesday, she said. Until then, Anderson said, the club can't exist. If any clubs prove "disruptive," she said, the school would deal with that on a case-by-case basis. Dorris said he is concerned that a gay club would be disruptive. "The only example I have is what happened in Bloomingdale in April," he said. At that high school, students starting a Gay-Straight Alliance observed a national "day of silence" meant to draw attention to gay- rights issues. The students wore signs explaining their silence. The next day, another group of students came to school wearing anti-gay slogans on their clothes as a counterprotest. The original protesters retaliated the following day with more slogans. Administrators found themselves in the middle of a silent war. Gay clubs have been controversial in schools across the country. In August, White County High School in northern Georgia banned all nonacademic clubs, in order to do away with its nascent Gay- Straight Alliance. "This tends to be a divisive issue," Dorris said. "It's very polarizing to the student body and disruptive to academics." It would be better, he said, to have an all-inclusive "tolerance" club. "If we're building this tolerance and love and respect for each other, let's broaden it beyond sex," he said. It's not clear how many schools in Hillsborough have Gay- Straight Alliances. School district spokesman Stephen Hegarty said attempts have been made to start such clubs at four high schools: Tampa Bay Tech, Blake, Bloomingdale and Brandon; but he said he isn't sure if the clubs were successful. Smith, of Equality Florida, said that it's important for gay students to have a resource specifically for them. "Homophobic slurs are the most common on campuses," said Smith. "I would have loved to have had a gay-straight alliance, a place where I could get support for that kind of harassment." Dorris, however, said gay students already have resources in the school's guidance counselors and other support staff. If students are being harassed, he said, it's the administration's responsibility to deal with it. "I wasn't aware we had a tolerance issue," he said. "And if there is, maybe the administration is not doing what they need to be doing in terms of identifying the trouble makers and dealing with them." S.I. Rosenbaum can be reached at [email]srosenbaum@sptimes.com[/email] or at (813) 661-2442.[/quote] [url]http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/895543651.html?MAC=36bb01f49d35a19a3b5c66bcbe4894a1&did=895543651&FMT=FT&FMTS=FT&date=Sep+13%2C+2005&author=S.I.+ROSENBAUM&pub=St.+Petersburg+Times&printformat=&desc=Parents%3A+School+no+place+for+gay+issues[/url] [COLOR=DimGray]I'm just opening up this discussion; I'd like to hear your opinions on it. I shall post my opinion on it later. [/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]Being a muslim who lives in Canada, which is a country ruled by secular laws, I understand that there is a great diversity of people living here, and people who follow all sorts of religions. I personally do not think that [I]religion[/I] should be taught in the science classroom, at least in public schools. If parents want their children to learn sceince from a certain religious prespective, then they should send them to a religious school. If I had kids, I personally wouldn't want the christian/hindu/jewish/[other religion] perspective taught to my children in the science classroom. That can be left to world religions class. And I wouldn't want my religion's prespective of science to be imposed on others. But I do think the concept of intelligent design (not from any specific religion) has validity in the science world. If our universe was truly created, then intelligent design would be a fact, not just some "faith based doctrine". Therefore, since it is a possibilty at least, it should not be considered "crap". I personally see alot of evidence that suggests that intelligent design is true. Everything has a purpose. The sun gives us light to see and for plants to photosynthesise, and heat to keep us warm. We need air to breathe, and it controls the temperature. If there was no atmosphere on earth, it would be schorching hot in the daytime, and freezing at night. Even our actions have purposes. A baby smiles so that its parents want to give it attention, which it needs to live a healthy life. I find it difficult to believe that all of these things [B]with purposes[/B] came to be by mere chance. Other things I see as evidence of intelligent deisgin is how two creatures, lets say the australian flying squirrel and the north american (or is it europen?) flying squirrel, are very similar, yet apperently come from different ancestors. So these creatures, and a whole bunch of other examples, evolved this way by mere chance? Also, if all creatures originated from one species, how does this explain the evolution of certain organs? Accoriding to the evolution theory, at one point in time, no creatures on earth had eyes for example, and eventually some evolved to have eyes. The eye is a complex organ, and it requires all parts to function. It would be impossible for creatures to appear suddenly that have eyes with all their functioning parts. But at the same time, what role would natural selection play if eyes had to evolve over time, considering that they would not function without all the neccesary parts? Having an eye that doesn't work is no better than having no eye at all, so it would not be "naturally selected" would it?[/COLOR][/QUOTE] Your argument for ID is quite valid Chabichou. A non-relegious presintation about ID does deserve to be taught, or at least given the choice to be learned. But in America, it is most liekly the ID theory that would be taught would be heavily Judeo-Christian, which not only brings relegion into the class room, it ignores all other relegions.

[Quote=ForgottenRaider][b] Are you calling me a liar? I think you are!... Intelligent Design is a well thought out factual explanation of what really did happen.[/b] As well as this I am fighting for the right that my beliefs in Intelligent Design, specifically the strand handed down to us from up high and practiced under the United Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, will remain strong until this fight for the minds of young people all over the world is won in our favor! Those of you who point out that creationism and evolution are completely separate events/ideas and don't conflict with each other are just trying to use logic to corrupt our firm knowledge that we are right. We shall ignore you like a well worn shoe! Further more this applies to those pathetic biologists in their fancy I'm-a-rich-boy-not-a-stupid-hick-like-you lab coats who can shove their examples that Humans are in fact rather badly designed in the first place so if any one did have a part in it they should be fired and sued for negligence talk out the window. That's right, we at the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are on to you and your misuse of truth and fact, soon we shall cover you in tomato and mince goodness until you surrender your scientifically accurate ways! And as for I-only-give-one-version-of-Intelligent-Design Bush we at the Church of the FSM look down on you for ignoring our true goal in believing in Intelligent Design... To increase our security in the knowledge that we are (as fundamentalist Christians), and always will be, right. PS. Evolution sucks. [/quote] [color=DarkSlateGray]Funniest argument yet.[/color] [quote=PyroGirl] Yes, I am a Christian and if you don't like it deal with it. I did not want to be taught the theory of evolution, but it's not my decision. So maybe all of you atheist should just learn to deal with being taught ID if all of us Christians have to deal with learning evolution. P.S. Where IS the missing link? [/quote] [color=DarkSlateGray]The missing link is off drinking coffee with jesus. ID should not be taught in schools, because ID is just faith, plain and simple, there is not even the slightest possibility of proving its true, unlike evolution, which, while not proven true yet, there is the possibility. And while christians may complain about having to learn about evolution, they can always read their bible when in need of proof of ID. And if your faith can't handle learning about other theorys then your fgaith isn't very strong to begin with. There is nothing in the bible that says "Thou shalt remain ignorant." That is not the 11th comandment. [/color]

[quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1']The fact that you would accuse anyone who is part of the religion that they are part of, simply because their parents also practice that religion is sickening and I mean that. You demean the whole idea of faith with that statement, why then to people who have been Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus all their lives stay Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus after they are old enough to chose another religion ? Faith, faith in what they were raised in, what they believe in is right. [/SIZE][/quote] [color=silver] The reason they stay the religion they were raised once they can choose their own relegion? you answered it you self, they were raised that way. I'm not saying they don't choose to be the relegion they were raised, or that people raised one relegion never change to another. But what I am trying to say is that humans fear change, and if they were raised one way they tend to stay that way. Lets, for example, replace relegion with rascism, why is it that people who are raised as rascist stay rascist, and people who arn't raised as rascist are rarely rascist? (this is an example, and I know there are people who were raised rascist and now arn't and people who wern't and now are). But again this isn't ment to offend, just to explain my view of what BasouKazuma is saying.[/color] EDIT: sorry Retribution that was a misquote, i was doing this post quickly and copied the wrong name.

I'm not Catholic, I'm not even christian, but he was a great man, and while I didn't agree with every thing he stood for. He was a force for peace and weather or not your all that faithful, you do have to respect all the work the man did in the name of peace.

Ahh, oops for your poll subtract a vote for yes and put it to no, I thought it said privacy not piracy.

Actuly the statement there was not an insult directed at you, I was mearly pointing out the political alighnment of those who say it may mor may not be true, or is not true, and those who say it is true. For the most part my assupmtion is true. Based on the economic principals of the conservatives and the liberals, it can be an assumption based on logic. Edit: Also, even if it wasn't true, wouldn't iit be better to just take the safty measures now and if it stil happens, no one can blame it on big business? Because the easiest way to prove if it is true or not, is to do what the environmentalists ask, and if it still happens, then we know its false, but if it stops we know its true.