Dagger

Going back to male-targeted eroge, I just started [b]Ayakashibito[/b] (awesome OP movie [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMleYGQcNQE][u]here[/u][/url]). The artist is the same guy who did Saya no Uta, and the main heroine actually reminds me quite a bit of Saya-tan... hopefully the similarities are just superficial, haha. Before that, I took a quick break to play [b]Quartett[/b], an absolutely delightful little game about young aspiring musicians in Europe. It's unvoiced, but the soundtrack is lovely. My only complaint about it is that the romance/ero angle felt kind of superfluous--it was best when it focused on family, friendship and small character arcs. The really cool thing about it, though, is its visual layout. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/DaggerIX1/q2.jpg[/IMG] It's arranged like a comic book, but new panels & dialogue bubbles pop up, float around & disappear dynamically. Fun to watch, and it makes for a whole different kind of playing experience. ~Dagger~

Thinking about it further, I actually don't think it's accurate to say that the submissive/evil dichotomy is a general rule. Even limiting the discussion just to games (rather than "Anime chickzors" in general :p), submissive heroines are no more the norm than wimpy high school protagonists who somehow attract harems despite not possessing an ounce of personal charisma. Which is to say that they're prevalent, but not as prevalent as they [i]seem[/i] to be--it's just that every time they come up, it tends to stick out in one's mind, since they're so damn annoying. What I find interesting is the recent [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yandere][u]yandere[/u][/url] trend, which seems to have been pushed along by eroge. The idea of "moe" in relation to females may be automatically associated with the assumption of submissiveness, but that seemingly clear-cut image of the female waiting to be dominated has gotten twisted in all kinds of intriguing ways. What is it that makes male gamers fascinated by cute, trembling, blushing young girls who later have psychotic breakdowns and whip out the butcher knives? Why is the shattering of that submissive veneer and the ensuing violence exciting? Why is insanity moe? I wouldn't call these characters "evil," because they're not villains. Players love them. (Of course, there are also a lot of strong, non-evil and mentally sound women in games.) ~Dagger~

I'm becoming convinced that Tieria is going to turn out to be an android or something. That would go a long way toward explaining his attitude. Setsuna is so broken. While watching the last episode or two, I totally forgot that he's played by Light's seiyuu (which is a compliment, as that's something that's pretty hard to put out of your mind). I'm very curious about how [spoiler]the pilot's personalities[/spoiler] affected their being chosen as Meisters. ~Dagger~

[url=http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117976113.html?categoryid=13&cs=1][u]Some Twilight movie news[/u][/url] That girl doesn't really scream Bella to me, but then again, it's hard to describe someone who would look like Bella. More importantly, I want to know who's playing Edward. :p ~Dagger~

ANN says the character designs were adapted for anime by Itsuko Takeda (who also adapted the character designs of stuff like Boys Be and Mirage of Blaze), but the original work is by the manga-ka [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihito_Yoshitomi][u]Akihito Yoshitomi[/u][/url]. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/DaggerIX1/blue_drop000a.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/DaggerIX1/bd.jpg[/IMG] I like the manga art better than what I've seen of the anime, although neither inspire a strongly positive or negative reaction. From what I've heard, their stories are different, so it might be possible that the anime characters don't actually have manga counterparts. ~Dagger~

I always found that amusing. I guess the problem is partly that most anime can't bear to include [i]un[/i]attractive characters of any kind to begin with, so even if a character is supposed to be really outstanding, s/he usually looks about the same as everyone else... ~Dagger~

Have you read Lolita?? The narrator deliberately [i]skips[/i] the sordid details... :animeswea And again, Laurell K. Hamilton is one thing, but to say that everyone buys Anne Rice books (and I'm not talking about her pen-name erotica) for the sex is probably a bit off the mark. I guess the only way I can put it is this: if the sex scenes are the point, then why do popular eroge get PS2 ports? The PS2 versions are all-ages (in terms of sex, if not violence), and they still sell extremely well, even though their release doesn't mean the 18+ PC version is going out of print. Why would people [i]re[/i]-buy and replay the same product, [i]minus[/i] the sex, plus little extras here and there, if not for the story and so forth? Why would the all-ages anime based on the games sell well? (And seriously, it wouldn't be much of an exaggeration to say that half of new anime TV series are based on eroge or other visual novels nowadays.) Some games are of, course, just filler racing from sex scene to sex scene. The problematic thing is assuming that this applies to everything. As an example, one of the most famous subgenres of eroge are nakige, "crying games"--so called because of their tearjerking cathartic effect. I don't think these would do well if fans didn't especially care about the characters; who wants his precious ero-scene to get followed by extreme depression? If anything, amusingly, the ero-scenes are the part that feels obligatory, not the story. Some companies are better than others at integrating them. KEY (Kanon, AIR) started off making eroge but, once they became extremely popular, started making the exact same kind of game, just without ero-scenes (Clannad, Little Busters). Fans still bought their work in droves; they're one of the most rabidly beloved VN companies out there. Personally I like it best when the ero-scenes are done in a way that enhances the story. Just like they'd be done in a good novel. I think it's a bit condescending to suggest that if a story has any sex in it, then people must be reading it because of the sex. Certainly that may often be a factor, but to call it the whole reason is a huge oversimplification. I wouldn't argue this so stubbornly if not for my own experience playing VNs and seeing how the ero-scenes can be integrated (or not, as the case may be). And again, as for literary merit, I like to think that not only is there a continuum between Proust and porn, but that stories with explicit sex (i.e. virtually all modern literary fiction) are permitted to coexist with the more prudish great works of the past, and that liking an ero-scene doesn't mean you're enjoying it at the expense of the rest of the text. ~Dagger~

[quote name='Hero of Zero'][COLOR="SlateGray"] Also, many lolles at this thread for reading way to far into porn. It's porn, not Atlas Shrugged; saying you play porn games or read erotic mangas for the story is like my dad saying he has a cavern full of Playboys because he loves reading the articles. Be honest; you just skip right to the good bits like everyone else.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] Lol back atcha. ;) In the case of many eroge, that would be like buying a.... oh, I don't know, a three hundred page book for three five-page sex scenes. Totally inefficient. Of course there are eroge in which the sex scenes come quick and easy. So why don't people just stick with those? Why are the story-driven games--the ones where you have to click through hundreds or thousands of lines of text to get to the ero--the bestsellers? Nothing wrong with enjoying the sex scenes. Nothing wrong with playing a sex-focused eroge (like Discipline or Bible Black) for the sake of the ero. But playing a story-focused eroge for *purely* the sake of the ero would just be silly, not to mention a waste of time that might be better spent on Wife With Wife. Re: literary merit, I'd say that Saya no Uta is a cut above Atlas Shrugged. :animesmil ~Dagger~

Kannazuki was based on a manga. YamiBou was based on a game by ROOT (no connection). I have to admit that I got distracted a little over halfway through the anime and never finished it. That said, although it has some issues, it's not a total turd like Kannazuki. I would definitely recommend giving it a shot. Half the fun lies in its sheer trippiness. Kannazuki was based on a manga by Kaishaku, whose other works are Steel Angel Kurumi, Magical Nyan Nyan Taruto, Kagihime Monogatari Eikyuu Alice Rondo, UFO Princess Valkyrie, and Kyoshiro to Towa no Sora. The common point between all of these is that they're kind of bad. :p [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/DaggerIX1/alice.jpg[/IMG] Kaishaku's style is distinctive, too, but I can't say I like it very much. ETA: Not to drag out the shoujo talk, but I guess I have a little trouble understanding because there are so many similarities between shoujo and moe art, especially big-eyed younger shoujo. ~Dagger~

Abe's Haibane Renmei art is so... soothing. Restful. When it comes to anime, though, I think Texhnolyze is the best-looking (or at least highest-budget) production using his designs. Didn't like NieA. Not sure it's fair to lump all shoujo and BL together. There's just as much variety in those genres as there is in "moe" art, however we define that (female fans use the term too, after all). Personally I would find it hard to dismiss POP (Moe-tan), Noizi Ito (Haruhi, Shana), Peach-Pit (Rozen Maiden, DearS), Ryukishi07 (Higurashi), Carnelian (see below), Kozue Amano (Aria), etc., in one fell swoop... Plenty of manly-looking guys in BL, I can promise you that much. And shoujo covers everything from Shugo Chara to Banana Fish... [b]Carnelian[/b] is the famous artist who did the original designs for Touka Gettan, Kao no Nai Tsuki (Moonlight Lady), and Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tabibito. I used to feel kind of ambivalent about her art--it's very distinct and doesn't always look great in motion--but her game CGs are lush and incredibly appealing. She works on both eroge and BL games (e.g. Messiah, from which I've been grabbing my current avatar set). Her male and female designs are equally polished. The samples below are from Touka Gettan (top) and Messiah (bottom). [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/DaggerIX1/touka.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/DaggerIX1/mes.jpg[/IMG] The way she draws eyes and hair makes her character designs pretty easy to recognize. I would say that Carnelian's art played a big role in why YamiBou became a cult favorite of sorts. ~Dagger~

Haha. Well, as is the case with most potential vehicles of education, I daresay that what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. So to speak. :whoops: ~Dagger~

Wow, blast from the past. Lately I've been listening to the [b]Mononoke[/b] OST. It's short, but every single track is ravishing. This surprised me a bit, because I'd gotten the impression that it was the kind of anime whose music would work best in the context of the series itself. I was delighted to learn otherwise. ~Dagger~

So like the title says, this is a thread for sharing & discussing the work of your favorite anime character designers (or complaining about ones you dislike, haha). I'll start with [b]Yun Kouga[/b]. She's best known as the manga-ka of series like Loveless and Earthian, but she also did the original character designs for Gundam 00. Here's her version of the four main pilots: [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/DaggerIX1/gundam1.jpg[/IMG] And what they look like in the anime: [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/DaggerIX1/Gundam00a.jpg[/IMG] Although Sunrise did a good job of adapting her art for animation, I can't help but prefer her version. I just love her coloring. Here's another comparison, this time between the Loveless manga (left) and anime (right). [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/DaggerIX1/loveless.jpg[/IMG] I would say that the Loveless anime designs are more accurate, but Loveless's animation and general style is rather different from Gundam 00's to begin with--wispier, paler and more ethereal. Kind of like how although Code Geass and Tsubasa are both based on recent CLAMP artwork, they adapt that style for animation in noticeably different ways. ~Dagger~

[quote name='Deus ex Machina'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]That's been tled?! I think I have a hunt to go on....[/COLOR][/QUOTE] Yep, it's been released by Peach Princess. I'm tentatively interested in it, but right now, half the reason I'm playing VNs is to improve my Japanese, so translated games are ironically on the back burner for me. :animeswea ~Dagger~

Oh my gosh, I couldn't agree more. (Seriously: when Kannazuki first aired, I was horrified by the vast quantities of people who glommed onto it and called it a timeless tale of true love and all that crap. It got to the point where I started to wonder if there was something wrong with me for not liking it. Was I really not such a yuri fan after all?) Some eroge have English patches: ONE (by some of the staff who later made Kanon and so forth), Tsukihime, Wind - a breath of heart, and others that I'm sure I'm forgetting. There have also been a couple of decent ones released in English, like Kana - Little Sister, Yume Miru Kusuri (A Drug that Makes You Dream) and Crescendo, along with the all-ages adaptations of well-liked eroge like Phantom of Inferno and Hourglass of Summer. Also, Ever17 (a visual novel that was all-ages from the start) has been commercially released in English. I still haven't gotten around to playing it, much to my regret, but it's almost universally acknowledged as being one of the greatest visual novels ever. QC for these games is not always the greatest (they tend to read like fansubs and have a slightly higher frequency of spelling/grammar errors than you'd expect from a professional translation). Considering that the market is virtually nonexistent, though, I feel like these small annoyances are just part of the deal. ~Dagger~

Yay! :) I rewatched ep. 7 on Nico Nico Douga earlier today, and the comments were fascinating. A lot of people pointed out the fact that it's minimally animated, but done so with such care and purpose that it's hard to mind. (The series director personally storyboarded and directed this episode.) Some of the comments that came up most frequently were about it being scary/chilling--more so and in a different way from any kind of cheap horror. There was also a lot of praise for the voice acting. (Can't argue with that.) I hope this makes Miyako's seiyuu a star. ETA: Oh, and for whoever's following the show, be sure to watch through & after the credits. ~Dagger~

Apparently [url=http://www.dannychoo.com/fauna_detail/eng/636/Women+also+play+Eroge/][u]27% of eroge players[/u][/url] are female. Now, I hope they're just counting straight eroge, because it wouldn't be that interesting of a statistic if they included BL games, haha. Either way, it helps to show that the best ero-games can be enjoyed by anyone (I'd say that the same applies for BL games, but as usual, women are more willing to explore male-oriented works than males are to explore female-oriented works). Demographic-wise, I think ero-games can be broken down into three main categories: 1) hetero ero-games aimed at men, with a male protagonist, 2) BL games aimed at women, with a male protagonist, and 3) 18+ hetero games aimed at women, with a female protagonist. The latter are usually called otome games, and they're the smallest category, but more and more have been getting released as of late. What's curious and kind of sad is the near-total absence of yuri games. You'd think that if female gamers can enjoy playing as a male in BL games, then male gamers wouldn't mind playing as a girl in yuri games, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I've seen a lot of comments (frequently from players themselves) to the effect that they need a male protagonist to identify with, even in almost-yuri works like OtoBoku, whose main character cross-dresses with great success. [quote name='Konata']Hmm... Well, I can't say I'm particularly fond of ero in games, but I do like ero games. >_> Sounds a bit of a paradox, haha...[/QUOTE] I still play games for reasons other than their ero content, but I've come to appreciate the ero scenes much more than before (or maybe I'm just getting more twisted, haha). I used to be of the mindset that a game wouldn't be worth playing if it had too much ero content... I was a little taken aback to find that I couldn't dismiss games just for that; sometimes it gives everything else (story, characters) more of an impact. ~Dagger~

Just thought of the [b]Metropolis[/b] movie. That might count. I'm not familiar with the stuff that usually pops to mind as being pure cyberpunk anime (like the Bubblegum Crisis OVA and Armitage, I guess), so although they're probably a better fit, I couldn't recommend them personally... :/ It's funny, though--even though anime is pretty strongly identified with cyberpunk in the West, I feel like few serious cyberpunk anime have been made in the last decade (I'm guessing you'd find more in the 80s and early 90s?). ~Dagger~

Best show of the season. I don't know how to describe ep. 7 except by saying that it's a [i]brilliant[/i] episode in which almost nothing actually happens. Amazing transition-to-ED... I could not believe it was over (or that I'd have to wait another week for ep. 8). For them to be creating this much suspense when I know exactly how the story plays out is downright stunning. There's a lot of stuff I could point out, since practically all of the visual devices worked this time around, but I'll stick to saying that the use of on-screen text was pitch-perfect, from the empty quotes in the Chihiro/Renji half to the [spoiler]phone messages blacking out the screen[/spoiler] in the triangle half. Both halves built to a shattering climax. I had the shivers both times, and both times, it [i]hurt[/i]. Really really great stuff here. I can't believe I went from being back and forth about the earlier episodes to being totally blown away. I'm *thisclose* to ordering the R2s. Here's to Shaft keeping it up. EDIT: Anyone want to talk about themes? This episode alone offers so much fodder for discussion about how the Chihiro and Miya/Kei stories are connected (in terms of theme rather than the relationship connections that have already been made apparent). In ep. 7, [spoiler]while Miyako has her breakdown, Renji painfully begins awakening to the fact that he is constantly "disappearing" from Chihiro's heart...[/spoiler] ~Dagger~

I'd love to help, but I don't know cyberpunk. :animeswea Hm... feel free to ask more about any of these if they sound like they're up your alley, I guess. [b]Ergo Proxy:[/b] Ambitious; not always successful, but it's fun to watch it try. Typical dystopian dome-city setting. Includes androids who catch the "virus" of self-awareness. After the first few episodes, almost every episode takes on a radically different storytelling approach. Production values are up and down, but when it looks good, it looks really good. [b]Gilgamesh:[/b] Another dystopia. The main characters are young people with psychic powers; it's set apart by its intensely developed backstory. The problem with this show is that while some people tolerate or even like the artwork, to most eyes, it looks pretty hideous. I can promise that the writing does reward continued watching, though. The fallacy of man as exposed through science, etc. [b]Gunslinger Girl:[/b] I dunno if this is cyberpunk per se, but it's a damn good anime. Little girls get turned into cyborg killers, but they still have the hearts and minds of children. Mostly character-driven. [b]Jin-Roh:[/b] Elegiac story of political protest, terrorism and tragedy humanized by incorporating threads of Little Red Ridinghood. Beautiful & depressing. [b]Texhnolyze:[/b] A personal favorite, although it can be hard to take. The setting is a hopeless underground city. Unique in its agonizing portrayal of how the main character acquires & gradually gets used to his mechanical arm and leg. Very violent show, but not exciting; you really feel the weight of the characters' destructive boredom and despair. [b]009-1:[/b] An episodic series, interesting in that it's quite retro in its stylization and cheesiness, yet at the same time very much aware of this (which has the reverse effect of making it seem oddly smart & savvy). Noir up the wazoo. Bond-style spyjinks set in a world in which the Iron Curtain never came down. Other names I might throw out there (some not quite cyberpunk): Big O, Paranoia Agent, Serial Experiments Lain (don't like it, but everyone else does), maybe even Boogiepop Phantom. ~Dagger~

Just caught up on widescreen Clannad (up to episode 4 now). I had some doubts at the beginning, but it's really smoothed out. Kanon 2006 didn't play as well for me, coming after AIR; it became too clear that it was based on an earlier and (IMO) less sophisticated game. Since Clannad is a more recent work, this time we get to see the maturation of Key's writing instead. I like that there's so much interaction taking place across the whole cast, and not just between Tomoya and the individual girls. (I almost exploded during the RyouxNagisa scene. :animenose) So someone go post in the thread. :) Hoping to get back to Ghost Hound this weekend. Then I ought to be caught up with everything (although DVDs are a whole other matter)... ~Dagger~

Episode 6 was close to perfect. The direction is getting a lot more confident and powerful right as (both) stories heat up. Better comedic timing, superb use of imagery to enhance the drama, and a nice new ED from Chihiro's seiyuu. What impressed me in the game--and the anime creates the same feeling, perhaps even more strongly--was how the writing makes you lean toward the canon pairings without starting to dislike any of the characters. The anime's greatest strength lies in its emphasis on the stories' interweaving; by doing this, it creates even more of an impact. There were some amazing conversations in this episode, from Kyousuke and Hiro's argument over professionalism, to Kyousuke revealing his innate awesomeness while [spoiler]talking to Kei in the infirmary,[/spoiler] to Round 2 of Kei vs. Miya. Also, uniform!Chihiro (and I mean both of 'em) for the win. ~Dagger~

[quote name='Lunox'] [font="trebuchet ms"] At the same time, how many of the female characters in Japanese ero-games/hentai are virginal, innocent girls? Even if there are some females portrayed as dominant or something, they're usually evil. The amount of pornography in Japanese culture could just be repressed feelings. It's easy to pick up on the fact that a lot of sex scenes in Japanese pornography are sometimes borderline non-con. This is just my general understanding, though. I have no idea if what I'm saying is really that true. lol [/font][/QUOTE] I find this fascinating (my friend and I were just talking about it the other day, as a matter of fact). Consensual sex scenes in JP games and manga--be they het, BL or yuri--frequently involve the more-submissive party (male or female) getting really embarrassed for no particular reason. S/he'll say "stop" without meaning it, because s/he doesn't want to be the first to lose control, doesn't want to seem vulnerable, fears being judged by his/her partner, etc., etc. And it does get tiresome; sometimes I just want to tell them to relax and enjoy themselves, darn it. It's so different from American live-action porn, which (and someone please correct me if my generalizations are off the mark) is more likely to involve the sub talking dirty & begging for more. Semi-consensual and non-consensual scenes are a different animal, but you're definitely right in that even consensual scenes come off oddly because of the types of body language and dialogue used in them. It's not a trope I care for, and I don't understand why it's broadly used in het and same-sex games aimed at both male and female players. That said, there are thankfully a lot of exceptions as well; in the end it comes down to the quality of the writing. ~Dagger~

While we're here, I think I'll link to this [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n59jSDbeQs][u]vid[/u][/url]. :catgirl: It's a AMV-esque compilation of clips from the anime-style openings of various eroge. Totally worksafe (it's not even a little risque). You might recognize some stories that later got made into actual anime series, like Utawarerumono and Da Capo. ~Dagger~

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]The day I understand how people can enjoy that show, I will re-enact the final scene of the movie Pi.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] But it's so clever! And cheeky! And, and... :animesmil ~Dagger~