Adahn

[font=Courier New][size=2][color=blue]This is not so easy, but I will do what I can. In the case of the hive mind, every individual has a purpose. Every single bee or ant is useful. They are all a family. The same goes for the pack animals. They will take care of the young and old because they are useful members of the pack. However, when a member of the pack is wounded, or incapacitated in any way, it is abandoned. They take care of their young because of instinct. They are programmed to do so, because their species would die off if they didn't.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff][/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]Any creature that works together in this way does so because it is in a family unit. Our society is not based on this. We have taken into ourselves all manners of people, and the individual's function in society is lessened.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff][/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]If you want my opinion on what is natural for humans, I would point you in the direction of native tribes. You may call them undeveloped people, but I would say that we are overdeveloped. People were not meant to exist like we do. It is we who exist in the chaotic environment.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Courier New][size=2][color=blue]The classic debate of law vs. nature has recently sparked my interest.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff][/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]For argument's sake, I will take the side of nature.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff][/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]We, as a race, go against everything that is natural.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff][/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]1. We insist that the weak be put on the same level as the strong, and sometimes place them above us.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]2. We insist that we not center the universe around our own persons, when every other creature does what is best for the individual.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]3. We set our own pleasures and desires aside in favor of the good of others.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff][/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]Every law we have comes from custom, and goes completely against nature. It is for this reason that we harm the world in the ways we do. If we were to succumb to what is natural, the world would put itself back in order, and what is natural would be restored to its rightful place.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Courier New][size=2][color=blue]I find myself agreeing with all of you. The only things I have definitive opinions on are things that are important to me. I find that matters of the mind mean very little to me, while matters of the heart mean everything.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff][/color][/size][/font] [font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]I've also learned that it is unwise to attempt to explain what is truly a matter of heart with logic, and also to attempt to explain what is logical with something heartfelt. The two simply do not mix.[/color][/size][/font] [size=2][/size]

[QUOTE=Adahn][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]I think the general consensus is that love is what makes a relationship good. Nobody here is going to bash love, are they?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Good. A new question, then. What do you all think helps bring love into a relationship? My opinion still stands (Trust, friendship, attraction) I'm sure there are more, and I'd like to hear them. If you think one or more of these things I've said here don't help bring love into a relationship, I'd be happy to listen to an argument.[/color][/size][/font][/b][/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Please don't hurt me! I thought I was being good! All I did was ask what [i]helps[/i] someone find love in a relationship! I think that Trust, friendship, and attraction help. That was what I meant by my opinion! :sweat: [/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]Wow. *looks stupidly at his post* I guess I didn't ask any questions. Well, I'm going to pretend they were questions anyway. Despite my obvious qualms over my baby being laid to rest, would it not be a good idea to have some guidelines to base topics on? Coolness did actually introduce new ideas, but the thread got closed anyway. Also, throughout the whole thing, just a couple posts before the closing, Siren made it clear that he hadn't understood what I'd been trying to say the whole time with his little reincarnation vs. resurrection post. The whole thing was left very unresolved, and I suspect its ghost will come back and haunt people.[/color][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]That's all well and good, except that it doesn't address any of the questions I asked.[/color][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Is it wrong for someone to have loosely defined opinions? Should we all take how we feel about issues, and etch them into stone? Is a dichotomous nature a bad thing?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I, personally, don't see it as a bad thing. I am apt to change my acutal opinion alot, and am not so fond of settling on one thing or another. I can and will argue both sides of topics other people are passionate about. I understand both sides of most situations, and am not in any way stalwart.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]The reason for this is that most things I argue about aren't really that important to me. I find that I can learn alot by arguing with myself, and can actually augment the rationality of both sides.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]How do you people view such things? Are you steadfast in what you think? Is there anyone here who's like me?[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]I'd just like to point out that hunting isn't necessarily for sport. I used to hunt squirrels. I shot them, skinned them, cleaned them, cooked them, and ate them. They tasted like chicken. I absolutely love venison, and my dad's going hunting this weekend. Trust me, he's not just going out there because it's fun. You can actually save a bit of money by going out and bagging a couple bucks. There's alot of meat on them, and you probably end up getting a better deal per pound from the cost of the license than you would buying beef at a store. Also, hunting is necessary to control the population, which is why only a certain number of licenses are given out each season. The DNR has studies done to figure out how many deer there are, and they decide how many our environment can support.[/color][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]I was wondering if someone could post some common reasons for the closing of threads.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]A thread was recently closed, though I can't seem to understand why. It was very on-topic throughout it's course, almost all of the replies relating directly to the subject. There were several debates going on between individual members that were left unresolved (all on-topic). The post quality was (for the most part) very good, and all members who participated were able to support their opinions well, if anything being a bit verbose. The thread also had an average of almost 10 posts per day. The moderator who closed it said that the thread had "run its course".[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]It would help me to create, maintain, and reply to threads better if I knew what the moderators were looking for in a quality discussion, and what sort of characteristics would represent a topic lacking the necessary qualities (which are unknown to me).[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Thank you.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][font=book antiqua][size=2][color=blue] Anyway, Let's append this along. So, you admit that you have nothing to discuss, did you not? I mean, you mentioned that you love to debate, like as if you know something about it. Yet, the entire existence of this thread seems hypocritical since you can't truly debate religion. All you can do is go back and forth with some person, citing random quotes from and taking them either out of context or out-of-point. Even if they are on topic, there's nothing within that won't be countered by another phrase or paragraph from somewhere else in the book.[color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]If you can't truly debate religion, then would you mind telling me how in the name of God there are so many posts here? I will admit, more than a third of them are mine. I can't prove to you or anyone I'm right, but I can try and convince you that there is some truth behind my words.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=AzureWolf] Ultimately, it's pointless, because everyone will keep reciting useless verse after verse, showing how it proves their point, and then someone will point out another verse that counters it.[color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][b]Ultimately, it's pointless, because everyone will keep reciting useless after showing how it proves their point, and then someone will point out another that counters it. Wow, I get it now, debating anything is useless, because there are always studies whose results can be interpreted differently, and even some that contradict each other completely![/b][/color][/size][/font] [QUOTE=AzureWolf] I just have to laugh at how you two think you are so amazing for bouncing back useless quandaries at one another, and I agree with Siren that this thread should have been massacred quite a while ago due to the lack of... well... I'd rather not say it.[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Any debate with any sort of resource cited for evidence is apparently spam. Please, Azurewolf.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]I think the general consensus is that love is what makes a relationship good. Nobody here is going to bash love, are they?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Good. A new question, then. What do you all think helps bring love into a relationship? My opinion still stands (Trust, friendship, attraction) I'm sure there are more, and I'd like to hear them. If you think one or more of these things I've said here don't help bring love into a relationship, I'd be happy to listen to an argument.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Wow, that's some rough ****. Have you ever thought to yourself that even though they are obviously wrong, there might be something good and right in this world to believe in?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]As for me, I wasn't raised a Christian or anything. My neighbors were devout Christians, though, so they bitched at my parents and got them to agree to let them take me to this Awana thing. It was a little church boy scout sort of thing. It was pretty fun. I had my photographic memory back then, so I memorized Bible verses and got candy bars. It was a pretty sweet deal. I didn't learn jack ****, though. So, years passed, and I was this nice little pseudo-Christian. I didn't know anything, just that there was this heaven place, and this hell place, and that since I said a little thing about accepting Jesus, I got to go to the heaven place. That was good enough for me, for a while. As time progressed, life got easier, and I found myself with time on my hands, and thoughts. I contemplated existence and God and anything else you can imagine. I checked out OB, and saw that it was pretty cool. I met someone there who said a bunch of things I didn't understand, but I was oddly compelled to read the Bible. So, I did that, and was mostly objective with the whole thing. I took it as truth. I thought of reincarnation then, even though I was reading the heavily watered-down NIV. I debated it with Jordan, and he couldn't refute me, which was rather annoying. Then, I started going to Church with Jordan and his family. I love those guys :D Church was okay, I just didn't feel what they felt. I stopped going eventually, because I felt alone. Then I talked to that person from OB again, and started thinking again. I guess religion really means alot to me. Ever since I got into more discussions about it, I've felt very much at peace. It's odd. I'm not sad, and I'm occasionally happy. I don't worry about anything, or have any problems. I don't make any mistakes that hurt me. When I moved into my dorm, I wasn't scared or excited or anything. It was just a different place. I have what's important to me now, and I don't really need anything else (not that I don't get everything I want, anyway). I suppose my advice is that just because you've had bad experiences with certain religions doesn't mean all religions are bad. Give something a go, maybe you'll find peace. If you're at peace without one, that's good too. It's not for me, though.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[quote name='Siren']Then you're a walking contradiction, and a mindless meatpuppet drone who does what he's told.[/quote] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]I agree completely, except for the mindless meatpuppet drone who does what he's told part. You can't change the world, but you can change yourself. If you can't change yourself, then you can't change anything.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=Siren]Okay, so, if you're actually [i]Pro[/i]-Same-sex marriage, then how do you explain all the talk in the beginning of this thread, when you were so adamant about how male-male relationships should not even progress into romance, and how wrong it was? [i]Come on[/i]. That's quite a radical departure from what you were saying when you started this thread.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Again, let me point out that my feelings, opinions, and ideas are open to change. I often argue for the fun of it, especially against where my own feelings lie. I can't stand up to the good sense presented here, so I gave up my little fight.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=Siren]Got news for ya, bub. "Born again" is not reincarnation. "Born again" is [i]resurrection[/i]. There is a very distinct difference. [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=reincarnation"][u]reincarnation[/u][/url] [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=resurrection"][u]resurrection[/u][/url] They're two entirely different ideas that mean entirely different things, with reincarnation being Buddhist or Hindu, and resurrection being Christian. The Bible talks about [i]resurrection[/i], and those quotes you're supplying are talking about [i]resurrection[/i]. "Born again" refers to being resurrected [i]once[/i], in keeping with Christ's rise after his crucifixion, in keeping with the rising of the dead for the Last Judgment. One "born again," not repeated, like reincarnation. Just give it up, dude, just give it up.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Umm, you just don't understand, do you? I made the distinction. Being born again is accepting Jesus sacrifice, and being made pure by it. This is the rebirth, the resurrection.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Reincarnation is what happens if one is not resurrected during life.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Reincarnation: Going from death to death. A terrible cycle, as you said before.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Resurrection: Going from death to life. This is being saved, yay.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]We who live in this world are born in sin. We are dead.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]We who live in this world and are [i]reborn[/i] in Christ have no sin. We are alive.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Those who are alive live forever.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Those who are dead die forever.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=rainkius]Adahn, your post where you said the things like "is this upheaval of morals necessary" etc deserved to be torn to shreds like siren did. You can't say something like that and then claim you don't REALLY have an opinion on it, despite how much passion you had in saying some of the most narrowminded things i've ever come across. I hope you are open to change, because those things make me sad. [/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]You don't believe me? I'm not a liar, rainkius. I voted no on proposal 2, and was pissed when it passed in my state. I have an aunt in a same-sex relationship, and I look fondly on the both of them. I'm very disappointed that I won't be able to see them get married. I would have appreciated that. It sucks even more, because our state went to Kerry, and it still passed.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]As for everything else, I think love is an odd thing. I think it exists in all of us, and certain things bring it out. It's easier to love people you like and trust, but you don't need those things for love. Everyone has the potential to love everyone else.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=...Coolness...] No we are not reborn in Christ. At what point do you get that from? No I am not denying christ, and I am still Christian. Jesus got rid of death, yes. Immediately? no.[/QUOTE] [url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn003.html#3"]Jhn 3:3[/url] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be [b]born[/b] [b]again[/b], he cannot see the kingdom of God. [url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn003.html#7"]Jhn 3:7[/url] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be [b]born[/b] [b]again[/b]. [url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Pe/1Pe001.html#23"]1Pe 1:23[/url] Being [b]born[/b] [b]again[/b], not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. [b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]Care to reconsider?[/color][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] You make no sense. Reincarnation is not at all a biblical thing. It is something man created back in ancient times, with pagan religions.[/QUOTE] 1Sa 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up. Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Just a couple snippets.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [size=2][QUOTE=...Coolness...][/size] I believe that you are the one who is acting blindly in this sense. You seem to be twisting the bible to your own liking. That scripture is saying that the dead are conscious of nothing. Also meaning that they are not conscious. You are alive in the womb. The Hebrew translation for "sheol" is the same for Hell. Hell is the commmon grave of mankind. Then so is sheol. [/QUOTE] Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Good ole' King James. It says nothing about consciousness. It says there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom. Let's look at each of these. There is no work in the womb. There is no device in the womb. There is no knowledge in the womb. There is no widom in the womb.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] You are mistaken. I interpret what the bible says, according to the bible. You interpret what you believe is contained in the bible. You are no better than what you say about the christians, and that they are teaching falsely[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Here's the deal. I was a 'sort of' Christian until I read the Bible. I had never really been taught anything, and was told that if I give lip service "I accept Jesus into my heart" I would go to heaven. That was okay for me, for a while. I grew up, and got smarter. I decided to read the Bible. While reading the Bible (probably in Ecclesiastes, actually) I got the feeling about reincarnation. I'd never heard about it before in terms of the Bible. I pored over it, and it just made more and more sense to me. I didn't ask for it. If you had read the Bible, what I'm saying would make some sense to you, too.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [font=Trebuchet MS][b][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] I agree, but that is the most important part of the bible, because it pertains to our day. I suggest you atleast read it and try to understand it.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I did read it. It confused me, but I think that was the idea behind the book in the first place. One thing I know is that it is beyond my time, be it in the past or future.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] My eyes have been open, and they remain open. That is how I came to my conclusions. I hope that you will see the insight in my words[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I hope you can at least begin to understand what I'm saying. I've listened to what you said.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[quote name='Harry']I haven't taken government in a while but I'm pretty sure that Congress can't limit the Supreme Court's power to declare bills unconstitutional. If anything it limits a power that is stated in the Constitution which would make it violate the constitution.[/quote] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]If it were as open and shut as you declare, it wouldn't have gotten as far as it already has. It will probably not get anywhere close to being passed, but it is still a viable amendment.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=Siren]I'd just like to point out that there has already been 13 pages in this thread, and numerous people have pointed out numerous times that Adahn has absolutely no idea what in the hell what he's talking about, and I've already pointed out that his "interpretation" about Revelation is totally bunk. I'm also wondering why Adahn continues to reply, even after he said he was done with this thread... Not to play Mod here, but could someone [i]please[/i] close this thread now? It's fairly obvious that this new debate isn't going to bring anything new or worthwhile to the discussion, and there was a wrap-up earlier in the thread anyway.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]I've found someone I think I can have a worthwhile discussion with, an actual Christian. I just got tired of arguing back and forth with you. The discussion was going nowhere between us. If it bothers you so much that this thread is still open, focus your attentions elsewhere. As far as I can tell, the discussion is still on topic.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[quote name='...Coolness...']The problem with that is...we are not baked in a new pot. It is the same pot, same dent.(adam, sin)[/quote] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]So, we are not reborn in Christ? Congratulations, you just denied Jesus and proved you are not a Christian in any way.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] Why would we die forever? God is not cruel and unusual. He loves us, in fact the bible says that he is love. Also, you believe in reincarnation. That means you also believe in Karma, no? And that the reason people who are reincarnated continue die is because they are doing something wrong?[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I don't believe in Karma. Reincarnation is a biblical thing, just not conventionally. Those who are reincarnated continue to die because they don't want to live forever, plain and simple.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] It involves a lot more than just believing in him.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]It involves faith in life, not death.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] The common GRAVE of mankind. How can that sound like the WOMB? Now you just sound ridiculous.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Let's see.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] Ecclesiastes 9:5,10- The living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are [b]conscious of nothing at all[/b]....All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power. For there is [b]no work of devising or knowledge or wisdom[/b] in Sheol [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]You also said everybody has to go there. Here's a newsflash, you've already been there. Am I so ridiculous, or are you just blind?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] But your valid "reasons" sound more like excuses. You provide your own information, and go by that, rather than believing the bible.(i.e. The bible does not speak of reincarnation, yet you believe it.) Also, do you curse? most everyone does. But, when you do, you disobey God's law on obscene speech and refraining from using it. .[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]The Bible doesn't say alot of things that I believe. It's called interpretation. You do it too.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] If you say you have too little knowledge, then inform yourself! That is your problem. You seem to busy to go against something that you do not even inform yourself of all the things involved. I would hope you would do that soon.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I know what I know. Revelation is not my forte, and you can show me how it hasn't happened just as well as I can show you how it has. We'll essentially get nowhere in that area.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] I also hope that you have met your match in your use of persuasive speech and quoting the bible. I will be back. I will not allow you to misrepresent the bible in the way you have formerly. Heed my warnings.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I expect you back, but I'll expect you to have your eyes open.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=...Coolness...] NO, we were not created to die. Obviously, as you brought out, when Adam and Eve sinned, they ruined their opportunity to live forever. Now, why do we die? Because we are their descendants, their children. Like a cake baked from a pot with a dent, we live with a "dent", sin. We are all human, and cannot escape that.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]We were born of Adam first, but we are reborn into Jesus, are we not? The second birth replaces the first. Adam was human, and he was the one who dented us. If we are baked anew in a pot with no dent, why must we insist that the dent is still there?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] BUT, you were wrong in how you said we could accept the gift that Jesus gave, and accept that death was done away with. HOW could death be done away with if we still DIE? This truth is right in front of your face. The bible says in Romans 6:23- For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our lord." MEANING:: WE do die, but there IS a way that we can continue living, as we were created to. But that way is not reincarnation. I do not understand how you can read the bible and come up with that solution, as reincarnation is found NOWHERE in the bible.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Reincarnation is not the way to live forever, it is the way to die forever. It is not the reward, it is the punishment. As for how I came to the conclusion, I will tell you soon.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] Many of you have mentioned about the reason Jesus came to earth, and died for us. Jesus did not get rid of death then, but opened up the way for us to receive everlasting life. He is the intercessor. Adam was perfect, but gave in to sin, thus making us imperfect. One thing, I am not sure if any of you have noticed, but the bible says that men have gone from "bad to worse"( I cannot remember what scripture). This is what has happened in the world- people are developing their sins, becoming practicers of them. You can see this by Homosexuality and Immorality being all over the TV shows and movies, while even 10 years ago it was not as bad as it is now. So, there will be a time when we will have to WORK to achieve perfection once again. But, to get to that point, you will be judged by Jesus.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]It's odd to hear you say Jesus did not get rid of death, but opened up the way for us to receive everlasting life. If you mean he made it so we could believe in him and not die, we are in agreement. I do not think that is what you are saying, though.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] Another thing. HELL? Some say it does not exist. Some say that it is eternal fire, which punishes people for their sins in life. CORRECTION::: There is a hell. But, the bible does not say that it burns you for your sins. The bible says in Ecclesiastes 9:5,10- The living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all....All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power. For there is no work of devising or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol (Hebrew translation for hell) the place to which you are going." So, that right there tells you, you will not be burning in hell. Yet, did you know EVERYONE goes to hell? Yes, in fact they do, for hell,Sheol, is actually the common grave of mankind. Bet you didn't know that. How do I know, you ask? I read up on the translation of my bible(new world translation). So, we all go to the grave, or die.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Here's what made Sheol seem like the womb to me. Read what it says about Sheol, and tell me how it is different from one who is in his/her mother's womb. If you read what you said, the womb resembles VERY much what you believe (we all go there).[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] I'm not done yet---We are not all automatically saved. We have to accept the rules god put into the bible, and live our life by them. The whole world is full of hypocrites, who say the lord's prayer over and over, thinking it keeps them close to god. Would you like someone who said the same thing to you in your entire friendship? Neither does God.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Even if I were wrong in my interpretations, do I deviate in any way from the rules that were laid down? I would not believe anything if I did not have a valid reason for it.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] Also---Reincarnation is not the resurrection hope mentioned in the bible. Let me explain:::: The bible tells of Armageddon-this many people have twisted, as the bible also says they will (false prophets). Armageddon is not the destruction of the world, it is the destruction of the wicked.(This is actually coming soon, so watch your step, you may be one destroyed) The wicked ones are the goats among God's true people, his sheep. He is our shepherd. Jesus will judge us, separate the goats from the sheep(God having put him in charge of this), and the "goats" will be destroyed. Now, the resurrection will begin then. Those who will be resurrected are the righteous(the ones who, to the best of their ability, followed God's laws and lived their life accordingly) and the unrighteous( those who didn't have a chance to hear the truth about God). Those who survive straight through the Great tribulation(Armageddon), will be still be alive, and they all will, through the thousand year reign of Christ, attain to perfection. During this time, the devil will be locked away from the people(he is presently roaming about in the earth), and God will not allow him to influence us at all. After the thousand year reign of Jesus, Jesus will hand the kingdom back over to god, and Satan the devil will be allowed back among the people for our final test. Being perfect, we can either behave like Adam and Eve did, or like our great exemplar, Jesus. if we give in to Satan, we will be destroyed, if we do not, we will continue living forever. Satan will be destroyed after this test. Where do I get this from? The book of revelation. The whole book is symbolic, and must be interpreted correctly.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]For the first part, I agree with you. Reincarnation isn't the resurrection. Reincarnation is being sent to Sheol (the womb) over and over. As for your ideas on Revelation, I can't address them, as I have too little knowledge.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=...Coolness...] Adahn- There is a difference between listening and hearing. I know you hear what all these people who reply to you say, but are you listening?[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Most of what I hear is that the Bible is just mythology. Would you listen to that? I did my best to address the points you made, and left alone those I don't have the knowledge to respond to.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[quote name='dMage']I think you're right in that thought. As for you finding faith in these forums, I think that there is adequate evidence to prove the existence of faith, but not in the form htat you were looking for it.[/quote] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]That's a good way of putting it. I was hoping someone could provide an example of faith working, but I'll live without one. I still don't understand faith perfectly, but I'm only 18 years old, and I don't need the answer to everything right now.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]I'm already halfway there, aren't I? I change and shift more than you can know, but I do it for my own reasons. I don't think the American public would appreciate it too much.[/color][/font][/b]

[quote name='dMage']What has made you come to this realization? Please explain what has led you to this grand revelation.[/quote] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]It means if faith is a real thing, I'm not going to find it here, or in anyone else alive.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=dMage] I don't understand. If you now understand that Faith has no real world application, than what are you searcing for? You apparenty have come to the conclusion that Faith as you thought, does not exist. If that is so, then what is that you trying to find?[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I'll have to look for it somewhere else. It's not here.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=Adahn] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Do you think it's possible for someone to believe in something so radically that an unexplainable phenomenon would not surprise the one who made it happen? Do you think such faith is even possible?[/color][/size][/font][/b][/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I did ask for other people's opinions. As for stating my own, I didn't really have one. I don't ask questions I know the answer to. The overwhelming majority of responses stated that faith is nothing, and the ones that said it did have a certain applicability could not (or would not) support their ideas with as much reasoning as Siren could. Therefore, his arguments mask all others.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]As for my own opinion, it's rather simple. It says in the Bible that faith has immense power. I believe that, and was just wondering if anybody could support or shoot down the idea of faith from their own personal experiences or knowledge.[/color][/size][/font][/b]