Adahn

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]I understand now that there are no real world applications of faith, just as I suspected. If I'm going to find anything, I'll have to do it on my own.[/color][/font][/b]

[quote name='Siren']Bull, lol. If you had no real opinion on anything, you wouldn't have escalated that Christianity thread to the point that you did. If you didn't have a real opinion on anything, you wouldn't be starting all of these threads now, only a few days after that Christianity thread. If you didn't have any real opinions about anything, you wouldn't be bitter, lol.[/quote] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]If I had my own stalwart opinions, I wouldn't have started any threads. The only person who's going to change their opinion because any of this is me. I'm bitter because you're mean.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] Are you saying you're just a mindless drone with no substantial thoughts in that pretty little head of yours?[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]*likes being called pretty* Hmm, what do mindless drones do? They follow instructions and do what they're told. Is that what I seem to be doing to you? I'm constantly changing, so I think I'd make a terrible mindless drone.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] You were never assuming that, lol. Any type of relationship that you didn't agree with was automatically wrong, and you never even gave consideration to the fact that maybe, just maybe, those people were happy. Don't pull that crap.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Tell me what relationships I don't agree with. For every person who's happy just to casually have sex, there's another person who thinks it means something. When those two people come together, it is not a good thing.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] If I want? Oh, thank you for giving me permission. Anyway, like I and others have said this entire time, there is no way to quantify what exactly makes a relationship work, because there are no precise rules and guidelines, settings, etc, because it's different for everybody. If there were concrete relationship criteria, my ex and I would have never gotten together, and the fact that we did get together proves there is no concrete relationship criteria.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]There's always a better way to ask a question. Are there any criteria that make a relationship wrong? I'll start you off with an easy one; a threatening, abusive husband/boyfriend.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] Oh...so this "right" and "wrong" thing is only applying to yourself now? Not any outside people or relationships? I guess when you talk about right and wrong, you actually are still talking about other people.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]When one person hurts another person, it's wrong. When people insult their friends behind their backs, it hurts me.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] So, it's wrong to ask Jordan what in the hell your problem is? It's wrong to ask him why you are the way you are, because I sure as hell wasn't going to get a straight answer out of you? I don't see why it would. After all, you're not exactly the clearest person around, and Jordan's much more succinct. It was simply a matter of effectiveness.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]You seem like an honest person to me. I trust that if you had anything to say about me, you'd say it to my face. That, and you've already said alot to my face. I hate having to say face, when I've never really met you, but you know what I mean.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] So, then, you agree with me (and Ben, and Boba Fett, for that matter) that Revelation hasn't happened yet? You agree that there's more cohesion in the Bible than you were preaching for 13 pages?[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I stopped arguing because I said no good could come if it. It was made clear to me that you wanted me to stop posting, so I aquiesced. We are in mutual disagreement, and that nullifies the statement in my last post.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]I think I just realized something. You don't know how much my thoughts, opinions, ideas, and feelings are open to change, do you? I have almost no opinion on anything, and really just argue for ***** and giggles. Here, though, I'm trying to find out what makes a relationship good. So, I'll use the only piece of information you gave me that helps me in any way.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [size=1][color=black][QUOTE=Siren][/color][/size] All that matters is if the people in that relationship are happy. [/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I'm assuming that both people in the relationship must be happy. If so, what do you think it is that allows two people to be happy together? If you want, you may draw from your own personal experiences or feelings.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Oh, when I was talking about right and wrong, I was saying that I know when [i]I'm[/i] doing something right or wrong, and nothing else. Do you not have the ability to judge your own actions as right or wrong? If you want an example of what seems wrong to me about other people, I will give you one. [/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]People who are friendly towards each other in person, even very close friends, insult each other behind their backs.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]That bothers me more than anything.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Oh, and if I don't repeat an argument or challenge your opinion, it means I agree with you.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [color=#503f86][SIZE=1][b]Please don't swear, Adahn. these are family-orientated forums. -Solo[/color][/SIZE][/b]

[quote name='dMage]While the body does produce adrenaline in times of desperate need, it also at this time that you have the least amount of focus and control over your body. If one where to do achieve maximum control over ones body, one would do so in a [i]controlled[/i'] enviorment, and not one where I think you believe faith would help spu on "greater actions".[/quote][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]So, this is all just BS? I'm sorry, I assumed he knew what he was talking about. Silly me.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]EDIT[/color][/size][/font][/b] [size=1][color=black][QUOTE=Siren][/color][/size] The adrenaline is merely biologically and chemically overclocking your head. That's it. Your brain is simply running faster and stronger than usual, due to increased power. That's it. [/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]dMage stated that adrenaline reduces focus and control. Siren said it increased it. I'm sorry, I thought my response was obvious in the context of the two previous posts. I really don't appreciate being misled, and one of them is making stuff up.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [color=darkred]Please put more effort into your post. This could be considered spam and/or trolling. Explain why you feel the statement is untrue. Saying it is without anything backing it up could be considered baiting the original author into a flame war. -Panda[/color]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]I [size=2]find that determination intensifies me in every way. It is how I respond to necessity. Adrenaline is brought on by fear and/or excitement (I think). You don't want either of those things when trying to push yourself beyond normal limits. When I'm determined, I think, speak, and move more quickly. I become faster, smarter, and stronger. I was very angry after reading one of Siren's posts (lol) and started venting energy off in my head, essentially getting myself pumped for God knows what. So, I go over to chemistry, and everything the teacher says makes perfect sense, and I answer his questions automatically. It's as if my mind spits out the right thing to do without a second thought. It's like running on complete instinct (in that I can't control it and that I do what's right for the situation). It's like I'm using a program I wrote myself, but never used before, and it runs flawlessly.[/size][/color][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]What does this have to do with faith? I made myself believe I could do something that seemed impossible, and this brought forth the intense determination which in turn enhanced my every ability. If someone could harness this, one could constantly have heightened abilities, and essentially improve oneself dramatically.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Of course, maybe it's just me. *shrugs*[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#556b2f][/color][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]You never understand anything, do you? You agree with me completely, and yet I'm simple-minded and totally wrong.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I guess I'll have to put it simply, lest you take it, and twist it around so it opposes your logic and views.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Relationships between people should be better than this. You keep going off on homosexual relationships, and here I am [i]agreeing with you.[/i][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][i][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/i][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]People are hiding behind same-sex marriage, calling it immoral, when their own problems are far greater. This is what I meant when I called it a "front".[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]My original post contained suggestions of what I thought could represent virtues found in a good relationship. Go ahead and take good and twist it if you want, but I'll define it for you right here and now, anyway.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Everyone has an inherent sense of right or wrong. You know when you're doing something right, because it [i]feels[/i] right. You know when you're doing something wrong because it [i]feels [/i]wrong.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Argue with me here, and I guess I am very unique in my ability to distinguish between right and wrong.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Most relationships today are bad. Personally, they disgust me. I am [u]blessed[/u] with a loving family and a good girlfriend, and good friends. But, in their lives, and the lives of everyone around me, I see so much that is just [i]wrong.[/i][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I ask you, every one of you, what is it that makes a relationship right? What can we do to solve these problems? How would people treat each other and feel about each other in a perfect world?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]Perhaps faith is merely necessity. If you [i]must[/i] do something, you will need everything you can draw upon, especially if the task is difficult. Necessity drives us past our normal limits, but maybe it goes beyond that. No, the laws of physics can't be broken, but is it possible that we can exert forces in different ways? Perhaps if more control can be achieved over one's own body (like in a desperate situation) one can draw upon rare forces.[/color][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]Except for the fact that the bill does not in any way violate the constitution. Unless I'm terribly mistaken, it means a law cannot be up for judicial review [i]only[/i] on the basis of its religious origin. I thought I said that already...[/color][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen][size=2]Unlike you, I was speaking in the original context of the thread. I've already yielded to any and all arguments concerning same-sex relationships. In fact, the first time I mentioned it, I was sure to add [i]in my opinion.[/i][/size][/color][/font][/b] [b][i][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/i][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I'm much more concerned with relationships involving marriage and sex without love, among other things. Same-sex marriage is just a front for the larger problem. The complete and utter degradation of the significance of interpersonal relationships. This problem hides behind same-sex marriage, but it is infinitely more important. It concerns how we treat each other. Don't tell me you don't see it everywhere. Not just in the media, but in people you see everyday.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]We are moving further and further away from each other in every area. We're closing our hearts and our minds to each other, and slowly eliminating everything good that can happen to two people. You can only control what is right to you, and every day people are hurt by people they open themselves to, because they are still shut off.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][i][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#556b2f][/color][/font][/i][/b] [b][i][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#556b2f][/color][/font][/i][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]You should know what happens when radical redefinition of morals, or even words, takes place. It leads to civil unrest, and even civil strife in some situations. It is a sign of imbalance and uncertainty, a sign of weakness of foundation.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I blame politics for creating this gulf between us. It is their will to make the gap between us larger than it truly is. Each side tries to make their half look better, to attract as many people as possible to their selfish cause. We're all the same, yet we allow these men and women to breed hate amongst us. I have (distant) family members who refuse to associate much with each other because of separate political beliefs.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]You embrace these changes, and think they are for the better. I ask you, is it worth it? Each year more people become pissed at the results of the election, and we're quickly reaching a boiling point.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]We're approaching stasis, Siren. Is this regression from traditional morals really a good thing? Is it worth it?[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[quote name='DeathBug']What I'm seeing here is that Adhan had a specific response he wanted to recieve in mind, and is going to continue pushing this thread foreward until he gets it.[/quote] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Since you know so much already, could you tell me what this response is that I desire?[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]What have you done?! You've started another separation of church and state thread! Woe be to OB![/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]This is interesting, though. To me, it means that the Supreme court can't review a law [i]only[/i] because of its religious foundation. If the law somehow violates the [i]Constitution[/i], then it will still be up for judicial review. I assure you, your rights under the (2nd?) Amendment will not be violated in any way.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#556b2f][/color][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen][/color][/font][/b][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]So, if I've got the general gist of the replies correct, people can have a good, healthy friendship that lacks trust, and the two people involved don't necessarily have to like each other. Also, one can be in a good, healthy romantic relationship lacking trust and mutal amiability. I said I felt these things were necessary, and asked for clarification. If I am missing essentials, feel free to point them out. You've already pointed out to me that none of the original criteria are necessary or applicable in creating or maintaining any sort of healthy relationship.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Out of personal experience, I must disagree. I feel that my only real friends are those I like (for one) and who I trust and am trusted by. I've also found that a romantic relationship lacking trust (for me, personally) will never bear fruit. On the other hand, a relationship I am in now was founded and continues to rest upon trust, amiability, and attraction. This relationship is infinitely better than any previous relationship that lacked any or all of the criteria I laid down.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Leaving my own personal morality out of it, I suppose same-sex relationships (male or female) would be healthy and fruitful.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I'd like to hear your personal experiences with good, healthy relationships lacking any or all of the criteria I asserted. I would be curious to know what holds your relationships together in the absence of trust, favorable dispositions, and attraction.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=Sonata][font=Book Antiqua][size=2][color=darkorchid]Well, to answer your first question. Yes you are wrong, and at the same time, you're not. Serious relationships will fall apart if there isn't trust, attraction, or friendship with a person. If you can't trust someone you love, you might suspect their cheating on you or something. If you're not attracted to the person, you might cheat on them, or not stay in the relationship very wrong. And now here's an important one. Friendship. (Not that trust isn't important, too.) If you're not friends with the person, you might argue with them, or just not have anything to talk about with them. But like everyone else said in many different ways, there isn't a certain order for all of this to happen to have a good relationship.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Book Antiqua][size=2][color=darkorchid]So why do you think same-sex relationships should stop at friendships? (I'm just curious to hear you're opinion on this.)[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]In response to the first part, I didn't put them in the order they had to occur, rather than what I see as the order of importance. Without trust, friendship is nothing. Without friendship, attraction is nothing, and so on. So long as those steps are behind you, there is a good chance you will have a healthy relationship, and if that relationship ends, it should end well for both parties.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]As for same-sex relationships, they just seem unnatural to me. Of course, I should have said I disapprove of male-male relationships beyond friendship. I don't want to get into details, but let's just say two women would be hard-pressed to engage in any act I would consider true sex.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]So, the person's life may affect other people's lives, but still, what does it matter to the one who dies? From that person's perspective, the nonexistent one, it really doesn't matter.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Time is relative, do you agree? If you cease to exist, time ceases to pass for you. Time and life may continue from our perspective, but when that person poofs out of existence, time ends for him. From this hypothetical non-existent perspective, there is no difference between one second and 100 trillion years. By then, everyone is dead, anyway. When that happens, there are no perspectives (that we know of) and if life is only found on our planet (which is rather remarkable to begin with), then the universe will do whatever universes do for about an eternity until life is formed again, and perspectives come to be once again. [/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]If a universe exists somewhere, but nobody can perceive it, does it still exist? Is there such a thing as time if there are no perspectives to establish relativity?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I apoligize in advance for any lack of clarity. This is rather abstract, I think.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]First, let me state some assumptions. [/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]One can only experience things through one's own perception.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]To those who have complete faith in the laws of nature, our perception is a direct result of various physical masses located within our bodies.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Death is final and removes all functionality of the required masses which results in an end to the perception of said dead individual.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Permanent loss of perception is nonexistence.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Now, from this individual's perception there is no past, present, or future. Nothing ever happened. The individual, from this nonexistent perspective, never existed at all.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]There are those who would say, "He's alive in the hearts and minds of those who knew and loved him."[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]To this I respond, "How does this matter at all to the dead guy who no longer exists?"[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]There are those who would say, "His body feeds the earth and new life springs from it."[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]To this I respond, "How does this matter at all to the dead guy who no longer exists?"[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]You get the picture.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]My question is, first of all, whether (from the perspective of one who has faith in nature) I'm right or wrong. My second question is how these people cope with this, if it indeed is true.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]I've been thinking about the healthy progression of relationships, and am now going to try and get my thoughts down.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Relationships [i]must[/i] come in steps, and certain criteria must be met in order to be in a healthy relationship.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]1. Trust[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Trust between two people is a requirement for any sort of companionship, and that is what I will call a relationship consisting of trust; companionship.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]2. Amiability[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]When both people have a certain fondness for each other, and trust has already been established, a friendship develops.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]In my personal opinion, this is where same-sex relationships should stop.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]3. Attraction[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]If two people are attracted to each other, trust each other, and are amiable towards each other, a romantic relationship is [i]possible[/i], but not at all necessary.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]This is as far as I can get right now from experience. If further steps for closer relationships seem like a good idea, or if one thinks there are certain steps missing or incomplete, feel free to post them.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Now, I will pose a couple questions.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]1. Am I wrong, here?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]2. If I am correct, why do people attempt to enter into, or desire to enter into romantic relationships without meeting the first two criteria? It seems so common to me, and yet so very wrong.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]I've explicitly defined faith as a possible force that we may not understand. If you're going to disregard everything I said and focus on questions I merely attached at the end, then why don't you just say what you mean.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Faith is not a force. It has no power.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Anything else is unnecessary, and will only inhibit discussion amongst those who are open to the possibility of the power of faith. Your opinion has been stated.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen][/color][/font][/b][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Analysis: Faith[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen][b]Confident belief[/b] in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f] It is easier to have confident belief in something when positive reinforcement of that belief is all around oneself. also, one usually has confident belief in things that are outside of one's control.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Therefore, faith is not quantized. As the positive reinforcement decreases and the "event" occurs less often, more faith is required. Also, as the event comes more and more into the control of the "believer", faith must be stronger. I have faith I will do well on the next test.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Analysis: Test (+PR +CO)[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I have lots of positive reinforcement because I usually do well on tests. The outcome of the test is completely in my hands, but the overwhelming number of precedents allows me to have a certain amount of faith in my ability to succeed.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Analysis: Driving (-PR -CO)[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I'm an inexperienced driver, yet I have a certain amount of faith that I will not crash. I haven't crashed yet, but I've made many mistakes where I should have crashed. My driving skills are controllable, and not so great. Also, I have to deal with other drivers, who may be worse than me. How is it that I have faith? I believe I will not crash because a force outside my control (fate/god/etc.) will not allow me to do so. It's easier for me to believe it if I decide that it's out of my control. It's [i]necessary.[/i][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Analysis: Sunrise (+PR -CO)[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. I have no control over it, and it has happened many times before. This is one of the easiest things to have faith in.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Analysis: Flying a jet (-PR +CO)[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I find it very difficult to have faith in my ability to fly a jet. I've never flown a jet, and I have to do the flying myself. I believe I would fail miserably. I have no faith in my ability.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Final analysis: Faith[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]With very high positive reinforcement (+PR) and very low control (-CO), faith is very little faith is required.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]With a high positive reinforcement (+PR) and high control (+CO), a variable amount of faith is required.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]With a low positive reinforcement (-PR) and low control (-CO) a variable amount of faith is also required.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]With very low positive reinforcement (-PR) and high control (+CO) a large amount of faith is required.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I will now identify the two ends of the spectrum. The sun rising is an absolute, because I have no control over it, and it's risen many, many times before. Almost no faith is required.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Me flying a jet is an absolute. I have complete control over it, and no positive reinforcement. Absolute faith, or "true faith" is required.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]What makes true faith possible? Necessity. If my life depends on flying that jet, I'm going to need all the faith I can get. If I succeed, it was my faith that got me through it. Faith has the power to push us beyond our limits, and we can only surpass those limits when in extremely vital, unprecedented, completely controlled circumstances.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]If faith has any real power, it can only be observed under those circumstances. Under great duress, is there a possibility of exceeding mortal limits? Is it possible to draw upon some unknown strength with the power of faith? Are there untapped sources of power within us that can defy rules we are accustomed to?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]When dealing with a "healing spell" or something similar, the only proof you have that it worked is the person's reaction, and they may just feel better because their mentality has changed. I'm talking you want a spoon to bend and bam, you've got a bendy spoon. Something with immediate, inexplainable results.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]This may all be true, Siren, but a question is still left unanswered. Do you think it's possible for a human being to not be surprised if will could yield results (hypothetically speaking)? I think that if someone showed even the smallest amount of surprise at such an accomplishment, he/she would have had no faith to begin with, in essence making it unable to occur. Also, since such things tend to be rather mundane, you would have to convince yourself that there is a purpose to what you're doing. All in all, I think it would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for the human mind to meet the requirements that faith-based action insists is necessary. That being said, is true faith in anything even possible?[/color][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Let me first point out that this thread is not limited to any one religion. It is just a thought I've toyed with, and thought I'd present.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Faith having power seems an odd thing to me. Basically, if you truly have faith in something (ex. jumping from rooftop to rooftop in the matrix), you should not be surprised when you accomplish that which seems impossible. I've thought about it, and if I could make blinds open by pure faith in the fact that they will open by themselves as a result of my will, I'd be pretty damn surprised. Is being able to believe in such things a rare human quality, or maybe a discipline that could somehow be mastered? Is faith what makes Neo able to perform such miraculous things. Is it what made Jesus able to perform miracles. Did not Buddha say (more or less) that he could accomplish great things, but didn't for some reason I can't remember right now?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Do you think it's possible for someone to believe in something so radically that an unexplainable phenomenon would not surprise the one who made it happen? Do you think such faith is even possible?[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[quote name='Siren]One thing you have to keep in mind is, that I'm usually always right, [i]especially[/i'] when it comes to Interpretive/Literary Theory, because I've been intensely studying it for years now, and when I give an interpretation of a particular work, it's because that's the actual meaning behind the work. This is no different.[/quote][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]This is different because we're not talking about a literary work. You're putting motives behind my ideas, when you don't know anything about what goes on in my head. Despite what you may think, what goes on up here is more complex than anything you have read or could even begin to understand. I could say the same of anyone's mind.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] After we establish that your interpretation is a half-baked one to begin with, then we begin asking why you created this thread, and why you insist on drawing it out, and our conclusion is a rather easy one: Your ego. This thread is an ego trip for you, and you can't stand to be proven wrong about this, and you are being proven wrong about this. That bothers you immensely, even though you don't consciously realize it. Your subconscious is eating away at you here, and you can feel that, and we all know that you feel it. This is common sense, Adahn, don't fight it.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]This is not about my ego. You're not asking why I created the thread, you're telling me why I created it, because everyone knows that you're omnipotent and you can spot motives with your eyes closed.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] [i]Feelings are not reality[/i], nor are they truth. They're subjective viewpoints, which do not treat a situation as it should be treated: without pretext of emotional investment.:[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]It was an impression I got from reading. That's all I was doing, just reading my Bible. After I got the impression, I found what caused that impression, and realized that my feelings were backed up by what was written. There was no emotional investment. I wasn't looking for some unknown truth in the Bible to feed my ever-hungry ego, but I found one anyway.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] Feelings are never right when they're based on such a twisted misinterpretation of a source material, whether it's the Dating Situation, or this religious discussion. Feelings mean absolutely nothing here, because they cannot--absolutely cannot--be submitted as proof, evidence, etc. People can have hunches, yes, but those hunches must be backed up with hard evidence (as "hard" as Biblical evidence can be), they must remain solid when scrutinized, and their conclusion must be arrived logically, with full consideration to all pieces of information. You have failed to meet these criteria.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I've failed to bend my knee to you in defeat, because I'm not wrong, but you can't accept that. In order for your world to stay intact, I have to be wrong. If you want me to find where I got the feeling, and where I got all the evidence, I'd have to read the whole Bible over again and find the spot where it became clear to me, and I don't have that kind of time on my hands.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] It's called four or five semesters of rigorous Literary study of religious texts.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I have this annoying disability where I must be presented with an idea before I can learn anything about it.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] If that's all you can do, then that should tell you that you've got a crap thesis. First rule of Lit Theory: If your thesis can't be supported by the [i]whole[/i] text, that's a sign that your thesis needs serious revision. This isn't only coming from me. This comes from very experienced Lit professors. "So blatantly obvious that we'd have to degrade ourselves to complete idiocy as a race to miss those signs." Second rule of Lit Theory: Never deal in abstractions or vague, open-ended claims. Use specific examples but under no circumstances violate Rule #1.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]We're dealing with the Bible, and my theory sure can't be disproven, so it's as viable as any other interpretation. Oh, I was talking about everyone needing to have the sign of the devil in order to purchase food or other things. You'd have to be completely retarded to miss that sign.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] Notice that everyone here has been asking you all along to provide broader examples/interpretations (Ben and Boba Fett, for example, just in their most recent posts). Adahn, just admit defeat, dude. You've got nowhere else to run to, and you keep repeating these blank, vague, meaningless sayings. EDIT: Here's how your interpretation is bunk, Adahn:[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Well, show me how my sayings are blank and meaningless. Nobody has taken any quote from the Bible that I've given here and thrown it back at me with another interpretation. As for our little conversation, I'm not lying when I say I was tired to the point of complete idiocy. If you think I'm making it up, ask Jordan.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]EDIT: No good can come of any more discussion, know that this is my last post on this thread, and be satisfied with yourselves, if you desire. I really don't care to try anymore. Perhaps I'll try again some other time, and perhaps a Christian or two will see fit to reply.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=Boba Fett] [color=green]Explained? You?re taking quotes completely out of context and stretching them to the point where every teenager on the boards can puncture them without much thought.[color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color][/color] [color=green][color=#000000][/color][/color] [color=green][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Might I suggest that you do the unthinkable, and take even ONE of my interpretations and show how easily it falls apart before making grand generalizations about everything I've said?[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Boba Fett] I just don?t see how you still believe in this theory after reading the bible. Hell is mentioned probably hundreds of times, but you deny its existence. You claim to be a Christian, when if fact your views as expressed here are incompatible with that faith.[color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [color=#000000][/color] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Hell was destroyed. I'm not denying its existence, I'm acknowledging its destruction.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Boba Fett] Get over yourself and admit your ideas are pure ********.[/color][/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Do me a favor and use some logic with your arguments. You seem to be fond of generalizations without any support.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[quote name='Siren']Something tells me that this entire thread wasn't even about talking to everyone. I think it's an ego trip for you, that's all. I think the only reason you had for creating this thread was to stroke your own ego and feel justified in re-inforcing your belief for yourself, because you knew that your idea was going to be met with (valid) criticisms.[/quote] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]My purpose for this thread was to present an idea and be challenged. I really, really love debating. [/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] You never created this thread to talk to anyone else; you created this thread simply to talk to yourself. Why not just admit that? This entire thread of yours was just a way for you to feel better about yourself?[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]You are very fond of putting words into people's mouths and thoughts in their heads, do you know that? You think you understand everything, and you will not accept anyone's thoughts or feelings for what they are unless they fit into your analysis. On a lighter note, if there's a word for someone like this, you probably know what it is.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] Not my point at all, so stop trying to spin it. My point is, that you're trying to convince people of an idea that everyone knows is wrong. You've based your theory on half-interpretations and filtered/twisted takes on isolated phrases and sentences of 1,000-line scriptures, and then tried to say that because of these five lines in this entire Book, the entire Book actually means this. Bullsh-t, and we all know that, and you know that, too. That's why your "I'm explaining this to everybody" line is a moot point, because you're not explaining anything substantial, because what you're "Explaining" just simply isn't what the Source Material is.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I will admit one thing to you, Siren. The only thing I got from the book as a whole was reincarnation. I could pull things out to try and explain it, but what I got was more of a [i]feeling.[/i] My feelings, by the way, tend to be correct.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] Up until our AIM convo, you'd seemingly never even heard of the PRC (Progressive Revelatory Comprehension) idea. How is that possible? You surely have come across it in your [i]exhaustive[/i] Biblical studies (studies that somehow validate your Literary Interpretive Fraud), right?[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I'm actually curious to know where you learned that.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] You'd seemingly never even considered how the passages regarding Revelation fit into the Bible as a whole. You've always hyperfocused on those little, tiny, isolated, 1-line quotes, ignoring the rest, and tried to make it seem like you had magically figured it out.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]That's all I can do, when people are looking for evidence to substantiate my claim. If you want a broad look at it, here it is. The prophecies are so blatantly obvious that we'd have to degrade ourselves to complete idiocy as a race to miss those signs.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] You hadn't, and that much is clear to everyone here, including yourself, yet you keep ignoring that because if you were to admit to that, you would break your argument yourself, without any help from us. As it stands now, however, you've tried to twist things around in the Bible through isolating 1-line quotes, taking them out of context from both the smaller passages, and from the Bible as a whole, which is simply a bad idea when trying to provide an alternative interpretation.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Well, if it's broader aspects you'd like, I'll do my best to give them to you.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [QUOTE=Siren] That'd be like me quoting one line from Claudius' prayer scene in Hamlet and trying to say that Claudius was actually a good guy. I'd be taking the line out of context, which is what you did here.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]If there's anything you'd like a broader interpretation of, please, don't hesitate to ask.[/color][/size][/font][/b]