Adahn

[QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1]Not unintelligent? High praise indeed, lol. I can see what you're saying too. And thats what I've been angling at. You have no proof, only belief in your heart. But the thing is, everybody can see different things in their hearts, and you can't really say it is necessarily the truth. I am not saying that you're wrong. But people need to accept the possiblity that they may well be wrong. Because in something without any proof, you can't hold the walls together with circumstantial mortar. You need to look at everything, and take it all in, without making a decision. Oh, follow whatever you want, but be prepared that you may be wrong, and accept and be open to other views.[/size][/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]It is my belief that everyone knows the difference between right and wrong in their hearts. If this is true, then if you feel something is right in your heart, and it feels good, then it is the truth. There is no greater proof of anything than the proof one can glean from one's own heart and mind. Other people can affect how you feel, sometimes, but the final decision is your own. I ask you, Baron Samedi, what is in your heart? If you have not yet searched it, it's never too late to do so.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Oh, and not unintelligent is a huge compliment coming from me.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[quote name='Charles']Well, first of all, that's a very contradictory statement in and of itself based on the inscrutable nature of the rhetoric I've seen from you thus far.[/quote] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Baron Samedi is not unintelligent. He makes me think, and I can sometimes be unclear when I write what I am thinking. Some things can only be proved to oneself through one's own reasoning. People can talk about their personal experiences with God all they want, but those experiences don't really mean anything to anyone else. I was trying to tell him that if he wants proof, he'll have to find it on his own. I can only tell him and anyone else what I've learned, and try to encourage them to think about the same sorts of things that helped me to reach my own conclusions. I really, really hope my logic isn't bad in this, too. If it is, then I'm hopeless.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=Midnight Rush]Since you are invincible, I guess I can't kill you. But seriously, you need a girlfriend, some hobbies, and an ice cold beer. I feel really bad for you man, maybe I'll fund a home for the mentally deranged someday. If so, I'll be sure to give you a call... you can stay for free.[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]If you don't have anything even remotely constructive to say, don't say anything at all. I'm trying to have a serious discussion with people here, and I don't need children insulting me. If you post something like this again, I will report it. I challenge you personally to take my points and argue against them. I don't think you will, though, because you can't. I speak the truth, and all that comes out of your mouth are lies. I dare you to actually think about what I've said in these past 20 or so posts. You're afraid, Midnight Rush. I'm calling you out. Debate with me. If you won't, then you have no business here.[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Oh, and I'm studying to be a Cell and Molecular Biologist, I'm actually quite terrible at art.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=lava lamp]Ho ho ho. Check out that wit and candor. Adahn, you make me want to light up. Smoking has never really bothered me.[/QUOTE] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]I'd like to thank you, lava lamp. You helped me to remember another thing I hate. I hate any and all words or phrases directly related to smoking (light up etc.)[/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]You've inspired me to make an additon to my signature :D [/color][/size][/font][/b]

[QUOTE=ScirosDarkblade]The "Butterfly Theory" is BS because it cannot be tested. There's no way to control all you'd need to control in an experiment designed to try and verify it. It's just something interesting someone made up. As for everything else you say, Adahn, it is completely devoid of logic. But that's understandable, because faith and reason are mutually exclusive.[/QUOTE] [font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen][b]Ouch, Mr. Darkblade. *puts a band-aid on his wounded pride*. The basic idea behind the butterfly theory is that all events, big or small, have many, many contributing factors. Since all said factors must be present for the final product, no one is greater than another in determining the outcome. It is, therefore, not BS.[/b][/color][/size][/font] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I am a creature of logic, Sciros. Point out my flaws, please. You said everything is devoid of logic, so pick [i]one [/i]thing. I can defend any and all of my claims. I will not allow you to declare victory, however, without isolating anything I've said.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]Hmm, pet peeves. These are in increasing order of intensity. It bothers me when people say mean things about people behind their backs, especially when said people are close friends. Next is people outside being loud when I'm trying to sleep. Next is people inside being loud when I'm trying to sleep. Next is people that smoke. After that is people who smoke within eyesight. The intensity of my hate increases as these people get close to me. The closer they get to me, the more I want to kill them. If someone blew smoke in my face, I'd kick them in the head. I can kick pretty hard, so they'd probably die. *imagines kicking smoker in the head after having smoke blown in his face* Yes, I'd enjoy that. Then I'd go to prison :( People smoke in prison, so I'd probably end up killing some prisoners. Then I'd be put in solitary confinement until they executed me.[/color][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#556b2f][/color][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#556b2f]I also don't like people who think too much...not[/color][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#556b2f][/color][/font][/b] [b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#556b2f]Is it really so clever to contradict yourself when replying to threads such as these? Who am I trying to kid? I like it too. I don't like that I like it, though. Please stop. It's embarassing to be so easily amused.[/color][/font][/b]

[quote name='Baron Samedi][size=1']I know that the energy is still there. It is transformed though, and can be viewed as having no connection with the potential it was any more. If our souls were changed, and absorbed back into God, they are as good as destroyed. They wouldn't exist anymore. Whatever made them would still exist, but any other qualities they may have wouldn't. If you blow up a building, it is destroyed. Whatever it was made of still exists, but it is not a building.[size=2][/quote][/size][/size] [size=1][size=2][/size][/size] [size=1][size=2]God will not absorb our souls, though you are absolutely correct in your reasoning.[/size] [QUOTE=Baron Samedi] But if he created everything from himself, how can there ever be an absence of God? It makes no sense, despite your assurance that everything makes sense.[size=2][/QUOTE][/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]We are more powerful than you may think. We chose to separate ourselves from God when we ate from the tree of knowledge. God gave us free will, and the ability to separate ourselves from him was a part of that.[/size] [QUOTE=Baron Samedi] And yes, I have heard of the Butterfly Theory. Really though, I think it's flawed, because the slightest breeze would disrupt the energy passed on from the butterfly's wings. And this would mean that anything could cause a tornado. Such as me clapping my hands. Or typing on this keyboard. But the theory is a cool idea, nonetheless.[/size][/QUOTE] It's not flawed. You clapping your hands or not clapping your hands could have dire consequences, just the same as the flap of a butterfly's wings. The breeze that disrupts the energy from the butterfly is a part of the chain reaction. The butterfly can't do it alone, but it plays an integral part.

[QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1]And the thing with that is, people can find whatever they want inside their hearts, and not necessarily the truth. If God is infinte mass [if everything is made from him] he is everywhere. And I believe somewhere here, someone said that God is not in the presence of sin. Which obviously contradicts itself. Which only proves that people can find whatever they want inside their hearts. And I think that either I'm getting confused, or you stuffed up [sorry to say that, this last post of yours has awoken in me a tenderness for you ;)], but you said you cannot destroy a soul. And therefore souls could not begin. Which means they have been around forever. But aren't you saying that God made everything? Chose a part of himself to be the soul? In which case he could 'change' that, effectively destroying the soul. When you reach the bottom of your swing, the potential energy you had at the top is gone. Not destroyed, but not there. What if God does that to souls?[/size][/QUOTE] Sin is merely the absence of God. He cannot exist where he is absent. There is no contradiction. Souls cannot be destroyed, but they can be changed. God [I]can[/I] take our souls back inside of himself. I don't think he will, and I hope he doesn't, though. We would just exist as he does, become a part of God himself. I don't think he wants that, though. We're his children, and he loves us. If he wanted to take us all back into him, he wouldn't have created us in the first place. The energy is not lost. Yes, the swing no longer has the energy, it is given to the air it pushes up against, which increases the energy of those molecules, releasing more energy as heat. You've probably heard of the butterfly theory. It basically says that if a butterfly were to flap its wings just once, that could cause a subtle change in the winds that could eventually be the deciding factor in whether or not a tornado occurs. If we were to return to God, our souls would not be destroyed, they just would not be ours anymore.

Well, you wrote alot there, Baron Samedi. God created everything from Himself. He is unlimited, and if He wanted to make the universe expand, He could, because he can't be "used up". You want proof, but I can't give you that. All I can give you is the truth. If you want proof, you'll have to look for it within yourself. If you have faith, you have proof. It has to come from within. If you look for it in yourself, and you can't find it, it's because you don't expect or you don't want to find it. Open your heart, and you will receive all the proof you need. How do I know it's within you? You'll just have to take my word for it. God "created" us in his image, from the infinite perfection that is himself. Since we originated from him, we share in his immortality. To destroy a soul would be to destroy a part of God. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but it can be changed. If our souls were created from something other than God, then they would be an abomination, and they would disprove God. And throughout all of this is balance, balance, balance.

[quote name='Midnight Rush']Dude, you are insane. I'll bet you fifty thousand dollars of my college fund that your train won't stop.[/quote] I see no purpose for this statement whatsoever. Are you trying to establish your superiority in monetary worth? Perhaps you think you're more intelligent than I am? I'll touch on that later. Some Christian. [QUOTE=Midnight Rush] I'll be glad to test your theories about me dying trying to kill you. Next time your in PA give me a call, I'm sure I can find room in my schedule. [/QUOTE] You'd be willing to commit murder? Or are you just threatening me openly? [QUOTE=Midnight Rush] You're so full of it... the Christian soul is immortal, and no body is. [/QUOTE] The soul is immortal. If it weren't, people's souls would die, and they wouldn't exist. I won't believe in a god that does this. Since the soul is already immortal, salvation is for the flesh, and only the flesh. [QUOTE=Midnight Rush] I would tell you to go to hell, but you're going there at an alarming pace. Nothing I could do could speed it up.[/QUOTE] Jesus finished Hell and Death 2,000 years ago. Your threat is empty. There is no hell, only eternal life as an escape from the cycle of death and rebirth that was started when Adam sinned. I hope you find the truth in some other life, because it is very obviously lost on you now. You are a quickening spirit, and I wish you better luck the next time Jesus offers you eternal life. EDIT: I hope you don't mind that I fixed your numerous spelling errors. Those things tend to bother me.

[quote name='Baron Samedi][size=1]But, Adahn, if there cannot exist anything that cannot be destroyed, can God be destroyed? Or is he [He'] immortal? If so, he is against the balance of nature.[/size][/quote] I said that nothing that is created cannot be destroyed. God was not created, so he cannot be destroyed. Simple. [QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1] You cannot say that there are such things as God and souls and immortality, and then try and continue the rules of physical existence with them. [/size][/QUOTE] I'm not talking about rules of physical existence. I'm using one rule that applies to the physical and the metaphysical. Balance. Everything is in perfect harmony with everything else. If anything is out of balance, everything collapses. I will use physical examples, though, because we are more accustomed to them. Imagine playing pool and shooting the cue ball at another one. The cue ball hits it and stops, and the ball you hit doesn't go anywhere. Uh oh. That's bad. If a rule doesn't hold up in any one place, it must fall apart in every place. All math and physics are is balance. What would happen if you could prove that 2=0? Math would lose all credibility. Why? Because it's out of [I]balance[/I] . So, I guess my response to your statement is yes, yes I can say there are such things as God and souls and immortality, and then try and continue the rules of physical existence with them. Why do I insist this? Because EVERYTHING is physical. Perhaps the soul has a physical representation that is too complex for any human to fathom. [QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1] How do [i]you[/i] know that you cannot create something that can't be destroyed. For all you know there is infinite possibility because God wills the Universe to keep expanding. We may think that there is some Great Rule Of Balance that applies to everything, but if you are willing to accept something based entirely on faith... then you... Geez, it's like saying water is wet.[/size][/QUOTE] God created everything to balance out and make sense. Look around and see what He made. These are the rules we have to live with. Everything has to make sense for us. Creating something from nothing doesn't make sense. [QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1] To accept the possibilities that there exists something that we have no proof of existing requires a breach in normal thought. You understand what I mean? Who says that any rules apply to them.[/size][/QUOTE] There is proof, you just have to find it for yourself. When you've got God on your side, you'll know. He is a POWERFUL ally, let me tell you :D [QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1] And what about all the people who truly don't believe they'll die. And then do. What then? The crazy ones who don't believe in death. They die.[/size][/QUOTE] Crazy people who don't believei in death or God die. People who truly believe in God don't believe in death. Those people don't die. The general feeling of all yoru posts is, "How do you know if you can't know?" Well, I simply understand things better than you do. You'll oppose me no matter what I say. I tell you what. Prove to me that the rule of balance can be broken, and I'll concede to you. Shouldn't be too hard for you, seeing as my argument is so weak.

[QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1]I am deeply apologetic that I skipped every post bar the first, but I'm not really too big on getting bogged into this discussion. [/size][/QUOTE] Well then it's good you picked something people haven't put much effort into addressing :D [QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1] If you're going to entertain the possiblity of a soul, how can you then say that everything that has a beginning has an end? You can't have your cake and eat it too. By openly acknowledging the possibility of something that you cannot tell exists, you would be hypocritical not to accept that normal rules might not apply to it.[/size][/QUOTE] This is not a normal rule. It is a universal rule that applies to all things. An even greater rules is that there is balance in all things. To create something that cannot be destroyed goes against the rule of balance. [QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1] Everything has a beginning. But not everything ends. That is the third option; your soul was created, and will go on. [/size][/QUOTE] This also goes againstthe rule of balance. I don't know how to explain it further, it's just something that can't be contradicted in any way. [QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1] I'd love to know how this applies to people who aren't Christians. We cannot be 'punishing ourselves with death', because we aren't begging for this forgiveness which has 'already been given'. So, where does that leave us?[/size][/QUOTE] This was directed at Christians, but the same rules apply to non-Christians, too. If you don't accept eternal life and embrace death, then you're no better or worse than those who wait to die for their salvation. You will both end up in the same place; the womb. You will be thrust back into this life with another chance to become immortal.

[QUOTE=Drix D'Zanth] My perception of evil: I was challenged by a professor to answer the question ?if God created everything, did he create evil?? Well, I inquired, does cold exist? ?surely it does.? Does darkness exist? ?Of course it does!?. I replied that physics and chemistry have proven that neither darkness nor cold exists. Darkness is merely the [i]absence[/i] of light, just as cold is the absence of heat. They are only words assigned to a concept that doesn?t physically exist! [/QUOTE] Jordan, have you forgotten everything? Abdak, Jordan, abdak. There is so much darkness that it is unfair to say it is merely the absence of light. Light is an abomination, something that only exists because of the movements of annoying atoms in what should be the perfect void of space, oblivion. The same thing goes with heat, it should not be, and most of the universe is not touched by it. There is no such thing as heat, but rather the absence of stillness and peace (absolute zero). There is no such thing as absolute heat. Nor is there absolute light. It can always get hotter and brighter, but perfect darkness and perfect lack of heat are something we can measure, things we can see and know and understand. Sin pervades this world, and I assert that there is no good, merely the absence of sin. I'm not far from the mark, am I? The absence of sin is also something we can see and know and understand, while the depths of sin itself are murky, and nobody knows how deep that inky pool is. Am I in the wrong here? The basis for any comparison between relative opposites should be drawn from the perspective of an absolute, not something immeasurable. These absolutes are the true powers. The intensity of heat, of light, of sin, are all annihilated when enveloped in darkness, absolute zero, and the light of God. I therefore propose that we eliminate physics as a discipline because of it's fundamental flaws in relation to absolutes :D

Species are defined by the ability to produce viable offspring. These creatures seem very physiologically different from us, and any mating with modern humans (if these "hobbits" were to exist today) would probably not result in conception, and if it did, the offspring would probably not be viable (like mules).

I think this will cause a "gold rush" as the article put it. Excavations will be conducted throughout the area with much precision. I would hold off on my opinions until further excavations are performed. If only 12,000 years have passed, we should find much more in terms of remains (I'm not an archaeologist, so I'm sorry if I've got this backwards). If indeed there are more of these hobbits, then I think Biology will have to bend to integrate them, and new arguments will spring up for and against evolution, I'm sure. I can see lots of people becoming very excited about this, but as I said, I'll hold off on my feelings until more information is available.

Perhaps a better study would be to inject the anti-depressants during a mouse's puberty? The brain developes at an ungodly rate for babies, and by the time you're a teenager, you are growing mentally, but not nearly to the same extent. If one is going to draw conclusions from experimentation, I think they need more parallels between the testing and the actual situation before they can come to any sort of scientific decision.

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]So, here's what I THINK you are saying (and no, I don't agree with it): God flushed his [B]existence[/B] so we could continue to [B]exist[/B] through a never-ending cycle of [B]life[/B] and [B]death[/B], by removing the one punishment (a soul's [B]extinction[/B]). Is that what you are saying?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] You partially understand. The never-ending cycle of life and death is the punishment. God came to take death away from us. Yes, I am saying that if you read, understand, and believe the bible (and have faith in it), you will not die. He offers us immortality as a way out of the cycle. There is no eternal damnation, though that may be better than what I'm saying. Your soul may exist, but if you die and are reborn, the person you were before (personality, body, etc.) will never exist again. True faith is believing in something that is contradicted all around you. Death rules this world, and I have faith in the fact that I will not die. God doesn't need us to die for him, and he won't accept the sacrifice of our lives. There never was a hell, only sheol/the grave/the womb. Nobody is born innocent, that one can only get from a spiritual rebirth. Until that spiritual rebirth is achieved, you will keep dying and being reborn. The Bible promises that one day all will be saved, whether they like it or not :D . I think I'll have my salvation now, though, but I guess that's just me.

Marriage is not a Christian word. It exists in one form or another in almost every religious sect that has ever existed. Homosexuals aren't asking to be recognized by the Church as having a blessed union under God. Should we not recognize marriages between Jews or Muslims because they're not Christians? Or how about heterosexual atheists, buddhists, hinduists, shintoists, etc. America is a blend of religions, and some form of marriage exists within all of them. We do get alot of our morals from Christianity, but those same morals are in most other religions, too. Christians are nothing special, and the word "marriage" can't be attributed only to them. Also, the Bible does not mention female homosexual relationships. [I]Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.[/I] This is all it says. Nowhere does it state that women can't lie with other women. Just a point I wanted to make, since we're on the subject. Oh, another thing. If you're a Christian, and you get a legal divorce, you're not divorced. You can only divorce someone from adultery. If you get a legal divorce and go sleep with someone else, you're committing adultery. This is sort of funny, because I know tons and tons of Christians whose parents are divorced, and they all go off and commit adultery, thinking they're not doing anything wrong. This goes to show even more that marriage is no longer something Christian, since Christians themselves don't follow the rules. [I]Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.[/I] I hope this helps to show all of you that marriage is no longer a Christian institution, and since Christians themselves have failed to uphold the word of God, they have no right to enforce other parts of the Bible on anyone.

[QUOTE=Midnight Rush]That comment is un-called for. You are welcome to share questions, and thoughts regarding Christianity, but you have crossed the line here. Philosophical discussion is one thing, but insulting my friends is another. You may feel like picking a fight with God... I say go for it, He will deal with you. I guarantee you you don't want to pick a fight with me... I'll deal with you. Think about it, and cut the insults.[/QUOTE] You find it so easy to tell everyone how they're going to hell if they don't follow what you believe. I'm telling you that there is no hell, and no eternal life for you after you die. I don't have to fight your God, because the God you see doesn't exist. And if you tried to kill me, you'd die trying, because I believe in a God of life. If you found yourself in the path of a train, and you knew you wouldn't have time to get off the tracks, you'd feel several things. One of those feelings would be excitement, and you'd revel in the moment, ready to let your life be taken away from you so you could see the God that cannot save you from death. If I'm on those tracks, I'll tell that train to stop, and it will stop. Sin and Death are the same exact thing. You can't have one without the other. Jesus took sin from us, and he took death from us. You Christians hold on to your death, pouring your souls into it, denying what Christ did for you. Again, you find it so easy to say all those people are going to hell, but you're in the same boat they are. You'll all die and be reborn until you're ready to receive eternal life. Don't you dare tell me I've stepped over the line. If you want to fight me, fight me with truth, if you have any in you.

[QUOTE=Cyriel] Why would you say that the Christian religions don't read/understand the Bible as it was meant to be? [/QUOTE] Christians have more faith in death than they do of getting into heaven. Jesus' purpose was to come here, take away sin [I]and death[/I], and show us the truth man failed to find in the old testament. Go ahead, tell me which you have more faith in. Do you believe more in death, or in life? [I]Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.[/I] And you tell me you must die. You have no faith, all your glory is in death. I've moved my mountain, and you wait for yours to come crashing down on you.

[I]1Cr 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 1Cr 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 1Cr 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain. 1Cr 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 1Cr 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 1Cr 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1Cr 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. [/I] The first few lines establish that there is a resurrection. The last line speaks of those that have died not being able to be reborn. To show this, he uses the word "asleep" instead of "dead". Those that sleep can wake up, but if Christ did not do as was said, then those that sleep can never wake up again. [I]1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.[/I] If we all died in Adam, does that not mean there is a part of us within him, and him within us? If there is anything that can be passed through all of humanity, it is the human soul. [I]1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.[/I] This is pretty straightforward. No more death. Not much interpretation. Jesus destroyed death, so we wouldn't have to endure it any longer. Of course, you can still die if you deny that he destroyed it. Your choice. [I]1Cr 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.[/I] This says there's no point in living if you're going to die. Life is meaningless if death is the end. Do what you want, it doesn't matter, it's not like you're going to [I]live forever[/I] . [I]1Cr 15:35 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: 1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.[/I] The meaning of this is a little hazy to me, but it says that seeds are souls, and God gives souls bodies. I think it speaks of reproduction here. If you attempt to reproduce, you are providing the flesh for the body which God may or may not put a soul into. [I]1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.[/I] This says that we are reborn into sin, but we can attain immortality through faith in Jesus. It tells of the difference between those that are saved from death and those that have faith in death. If you live in a natural body, you will die a natural death. If you live in a spiritual body (saved by Christ) then you are free from death. [I]1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. 1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. 1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. 1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. [/I] This further distinguishes the spiritual and the natural. Adam was made to be perfect, but he was changed by sin into a quickening spirit, one that rushes towards death over and over. Jesus was brought into this world to save us from the law of sin and death. If we are as he is, we will be like those that are heavenly, which is without death. We bear the images of the earthy and the heavenly because we have a choice between faith in death and faith in eternal life. [I]1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.[/I] This says that if you are earthy (of flesh and blood) you cannot have eternal life. He refers to sleep here as death, saying that some people will achieve eternal life without death, and others will sleep (die). Eventually, all of us will be changed, but why continue to die and be reborn if we can have our eternal life now? When this happens to all of us, death will be gone from everyone, forever. [I]1Cr 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? 1Cr 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. 1Cr 15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1Cr 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. [/I] This talks of how Jesus has defeated death. It also says that sin and death are very closely related, and it can be said that when Adam sinned, Adam brought death into the world. It says that one should continue to do God's will throughout life, because we are clearing the path for death to be taken from everyone, whether they like it or not.

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]If you think I don't understand what you are trying to say, how can I acknowledge any of it? Paradoxical phrase.Wrong again: that means I want your reasoning. Quoting a million biblical references isn't going to explain your interpretation.So, what you are saying is you didn't come up with any of your ideas and are just following some online link. No, I'm not going to say that, but if I mimicked your line of reasoning, that would be the first plausible answer, haha. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] The first part was a deliberate paradox. You said you didn't know what I was talking about, and in the same sentence said exactly what I was talking about. Sorry that that slipped by you. Oh, and I must applaud you for your wit concerning my link. If you had actually clicked on it, you would see that it's a few verses from the Bible, not an explanation of all my beliefs that I found on the internet. I don't understand how you could reply to me without even checking. [QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue] Again, I don't want a link with a bunch of useless material. What I want is your support and reasoning for why you believe such things. Hey, if they are plausible, I'm not going to argue about it. It's the things you don't support and don't really argue that are bothering me. Well, let's clear some things up then. Your soul was born sounds pretty straightforward to me. You are suggesting the idea that souls have a beginning. In addition, your second answer to your second question implies that a person is the spirit, not the body, which doesn't make sense if you piece that together with the last few of these things. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] So, the Bible is just a bunch of useless material? Why are you posting if you think that the basis of Christianity is completely useless? Our souls were born with Adam. He sinned, and so we all sinned. It's fairly obvious to me that there's a connection there. I think I said something along those lines in my first post, too. [QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue] So it really sounds here that you are saying souls live the life and keep cycling through other lives. That's fine and dandy, but then how does death end the cycle that souls are responsible for turning? That brings me to the point about souls that you just quoted. Haha, I'm pretty sure the Holy Trinity is one of the biggest things in the Christian religion: if you don't know that, how can you argue about Christianity?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] Death doesn't end the cycle, life does. I've said this in almost all of my posts, too. You can end the cycle of death and rebirth by not dying. Yes, that means you become immortal. If you actually move your mouse and click on the nice little link in my last post, you'll see everything. Also, there is no mention of the Holy Trinity in the Bible, so how can it be one of the biggest things in the Christian religion? All the truth is in the Bible, and one shouldn't place all their faith in man's interpretation, but rather the actual words that are written.

Ok, I'll respond to everything if it makes you happy. [QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue] Well, it sounds like you are some kind of Christian-Bhuddist hybrid. Hey, if you came up with all that Nirvana-esque philosophy all yourself, that's just awesome. However, I'm not seeing the point. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] This means you don't understand what I'm trying to say, and you acknowledge that I'm talking about Reincarnation and Christianity. [QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue] Are you just questioning Christianity on certain points? Again, perfectly awesome to question a religion, but it sounds like you are just announcing your views on things and not really backing it up much. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] This says I'm saying what I believe without quoting thousands of lines of scripture. I thought I made it clear that if you want to take any one of my beliefs and ask for biblical reference, you were free to do so. I guess I didn't make that clear the last time I said it, so I'll say it again. If you want to take any one of my beliefs and ask for biblical reference, please do so. [QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue] You could just go to your local bishop and ask them about their stance on reincarnation. Christians don't believe it in, plain and simple (resurrection is different). Umm... yeah, there's really not much more to go on. If your logic on that stance is just, "Well, how can you know?" that's a moot point that can work either way. I can toss that argument right back at you: " How do you know we were born multiple times to different bodies?" [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] This is you attacking my beliefs about resurrection because I didn't back them up. Perhaps it was the purpose of my original post to state my views so they could be questioned? I'll compress all the information you need into one handy link. [URL=http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr015.html#12]Everything[/URL] [QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue] Again, I think your local bishop has a better conceptual design supporting his view on it. As for your ideas on the soul and the human body, I don't follow. A life is something a creature lives, not a soul. To say that someone's life began when their soul was supposedly created is really illogical. Now you have to explain how ethereal souls are bound to the same physical laws as corporeal bodies are, and yet, somehow, immune to a select few of those laws (i.e., death). [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] That nice little link up there answers everything. If you need me to take every one of those verses and explain them, I can do that. [QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue] And as for your idea that everything has a beginning and an ending, that's true for things bound to this dimension's physical laws, but can the same be said of other dimensions and of God? To say that God is Himself bound to what he created (in this case, time), is going to be hard to argue if you are using the Christian (and a few other) definitions of Him. To put it simply, God transcends time and space. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] Ok, you misread me here. I said everything that has a beginning has an ending. Time has no beginning nor end, and everything you've written here is based on your failure to read what I said in context. [QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue] As for the whole "Why did Jesus die?" thing, again, consult your local bishop about the relevance of his death to the Holy Trinity. My order of events for the Holy Trinity is hazy, since I'm not exactly a follower of the religion in question, but death is very important in the whole thing. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] I really don't know what the holy trinity is. Also, I believe I've stated in most, if not all my posts, that bishops may know alot, but most of what they know is wrong. You really didn't say much with your first post, but I guess everyone needs to have their flaws pointed out. If you feel I still haven't adequately addressed any of your points that you feel are valid, I'd be happy to clear them up more. I try not to be verbose for a reason. Nobody wants to look through posts like these. (meaning my reply, not your original post)

I like the logic of the writer of JTHM. He gives us violence to our heart's content, so that we don't need to experience it for ourselves in real life. As for what causes violence, it has more to do with people than any video game or movie or violent t.v. show. Nothing pisses me off more than people, and I've spent hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours of my life experiencing those violent things. It boils down to the parents. If you raise your kids well, they'll be nice and even if they're picked on they won't resort to violence. If you raise them badly, they'll be ******** and beat up people for fun. The kind of people a kid is around at school also have a big effect on this. Essentially, people who are important to someone have a much greater effect on someone's violent tendencies than anything that isn't personal. Blaming violence on objects of entertainment is just trying to pass the blame onto something unimportant, and that's not right.

[QUOTE=DeathKnight][color=crimson]I'm pretty sure in the context of the situation he was speaking of the meek, humble personality that children have. The disciples around him assumed that a man of such stature as Jesus did not have time or breath to waste on mere children, that he was higher than them- he was showing that one must BE humble and meek, as Jesus was and just like the children that wanted to be with him. The message of alot of the Bible is love, respect, generosity and humility- this ties in with the whole message, especially humility. Only ones who are not full of themselves, egotistical, haughty, arrogant and so on.. But, obviously, I'm not understanding it correctly. =)[/color][/QUOTE] Very, very good point. All I can say in response is that no children I've ever met were humble and meek. Perhaps they were different 2,000 years ago, but I've always seen children being curious and asking questions. I find myself with little else to say, because you just make too much damn sense. I suppose if your interpretation were correct, I'd have to adjust my argument. If people are supposed to be humble and meek to receive heaven, they should do so from Jesus himself, not from men out to try and save others. The best a person can and should do is show someone the Bible. To do anything more removes any chance of that person being able to seek and find the truth for him/herself.