Adahn

First, to Siren, I'd just like to make it clear that I understand completely what you are saying, and that my questions aren't for the religion itself, but rather the religion that is widely practiced. Next, to Midnight Rush, I am questioning the Christian interpretation of the Bible. If you read my posts, you will see the basic differences I have. I have stated them quite clearly and forcefully (I think). Of course, everyone always demands that I explain myself, so if you want to take something I've said and have me expand on it, I'd be happy to say the same thing with alot more words so you can really understand what I'm saying. Everyone knows that more words is better. [QUOTE=DeathKnight][color=crimson] Overall, I find anything based off the Bible to probably be false as I hold the book to be nothing more than a good read for mythological studies, lol. I respect anyone who believes in the book to be something more, but I am not one of you. I'm not really sure out of any of the Christian religions which one is more 'true' to the book/message itself- you seem to be getting a few things right and a few things wrong from the Christian interpretation I was taught for 14 years [which is the Jehovah's Witness interpretation, by the by]. I've studied the Bible several times over personally with an objective, scientific mind and could see how you might be taking some of what it says to be too literal- you have to remember the extensive symbolism involved in the book, it is very, very enigmatic [which is why someone having an epiphany about what it says to the point of it being the truth is so hard to believe]. It's hard to see through the veil of secrecy it's own words puts itself under. [/color][/QUOTE] Most of the examples I use are said by Jesus, and preceded by the word, "verily" (truthfully). When the bible is giving you a riddle to solve, it tells you. Jesus would say, "Ok, now, this is a parable." However, when he says something with the word truthfully in front of it, can we say it needs to be interpreted? To try and interpret those sayings is like saying Jesus was lying (covers his mouth and gasps). But, that is what you're trying to tell me. Next, you said you read the Bible with an objective, scientific mind. [I]Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.[/I] I don't think it was meant to be read by an objective, scientific mind. It was supposed to be read by people searching for the truth. If you don't read it and understand it as a child would, you aren't reading it or understanding it as it was meant to be read and understood. What the commonly-accepted Christian religions have done is disregarded this completely and read the Bible in such a way that it suits their desires, and lines up with their fears. The Bible is about the choice to accept God or to deny Him. Adam denied him for everyone, and Jesus gave every person their chance to accept Him. Of course, if you're the kind of person who can only think objectively and scientifically, all of this is lost on you. Don't believe what other people tell you to believe without questioning it, but on the same note, don't disregard what someone says without thinking about it, either. In respect to that, it cannot hurt to listen to my words. The truth is in the Bible, and if you read it as a child would, you will find the truth. If you live your life accepting what other people have told you, feeling safe in secure about your place in heaven after death, you will die happy, and you will be thrust back into the world with a clean slate and a new chance. If, however, you find the truth, you will see that God is holding out to us man's greatest desire, Immortality. Accept it, and you will live forever. Deny it, and it will still be there until you are ready for it. It will be given to everyone eventually, but those who demand to pay for it will pay dearly.

[QUOTE=Chaos]Adahn, to the foremost question, it wasn't really funny, just that I barked out at the Crusades thing. Make no mistake, I disapprove of nearly everything the church in ye olde tymes did, but you have to think from a different point of view from modern day society and morality if you want to understand some things in life. The Crusades, way back when, during a time of complete and total hopelessness and gruesome wars, the people needed a united front to support each other with. Granted, the Crusades didn't get all of Europe singing "Glory, glory hallelujah," but it gave them purpose. It was a horrible thing to do, in all honesty, but it was needed at the time. Get what I'm saying? To the next thing, you make Christians all sound out to be evil minions of the dark overlord trying to monopolize the children of the world. Granted, as a raised and broken Chrisitan, I know how...idiotic the faith can be, but it was always on the pretext of bettering the world around you. I would call most Christians far too overzealous for their own good [the ones that spend a couple hundred bucks on Jesus CDs], but not dastardly. But, yes, the Christian faith is blind. I would go into a long debacle but I fear I already crossed that line I'm so fond of leaping over.[/QUOTE] The Crusades may have been necessary, but that doesn't mean they were good or right. Christians are evil minions of the dark overlord trying to monopolize the children of the world. However, they don't understand what they're doing, so I don't say they're doing it on purpose. But, with whatever intent, they are still doing a terrible thing. I'm not afraid of crossing any lines, in fact, I think I've crossed most of them. Yet, only one has dared to question anything I've said. If they think I'm completely idiotic, they could at least tell me. Some say silence is louder than words, but here it means nothing.

[QUOTE=Cyriel]Why do you think that Christianity takes away the will of young children to read and understand the Bible? And which parts do you think the Bible is misinterpreted? Could you perhaps provide some proof? Where are you getting the basis for this?[/QUOTE] Now, I will have to make some assumptions, and if any of them seem unfair, feel free to correct me. Children are encouraged to go to Sunday school where they are taught about the Bible. When they don't understand something, they ask, and are answered. However, some questions are seen as less than favorable. I have not seen this happen, because it is what must be hidden, but I would assume that a fair number of children have their own suggestions. If a child were to read the bible and say, "I think we live another life after we die." that child would be corrected, because it is the Christian way to have faith in life with God only after death. [I] Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.[/I] You take this as, "Save the children early, because if they don't learn the Bible's meaning as children, they will be harder to save later." This is a misinterpretation. Let me ask you this: What do children do? My answer is that they question everything. Oh man, they have to know why grass is green and the sky is blue and why water is wet and where babies come from and everything else that we [I]take for granted.[/I] They question what they are taught in church, and they are shot down. It is man's 2,000 year old interpretation that is taught, unchanging. Christians are afraid to question their beliefs, when this is what Jesus said. He even said verily (truthfully), and yet this little tidbit is passed over. Do you know what he was responding to? Someone asked him what they needed to do to get into heaven. Receiving the kingdom as a little child is what he answered with, and said that it was the [I]most important thing.[/I] Here are some nice little tidbits to get you started. [I]Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.[/I] If Christ lives within us, how is it that we can die? Jesus cannot die, therefore when we die, he cannot be with us. If he is not with us, then we certainly cannot get into heaven. We have to take what he said literally. [I]Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. 1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. 1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.[/I] This seems pretty straightforward to me. The first one says that sin is the cause of death, and that death is taken away by Jesus. The second says more or less the same thing, that Jesus took away our sins, and took death from us, too. The third says that we (Adam) brought death upon ourselves, and that resurrection of the dead (reincarnation) was the result. The fourth says that Jesus will destroy death. If you all are so hell-bent on dying and getting into heaven, does that mean Jesus failed you? The last one says that when Jesus as a man lives and dies without sin, he has broken its law. [I]You cannot have sin without death, or death without sin.[/I] Jesus destroyed Satan's one power. Death. He did this by breaking Satan's rule that those who sin must die. That was how we were saved. He didn't take away sin so that we could get to heaven when we die. He took it away so that we wouldn't have to die. We are free from death, we should rejoice! But you refuse to have death taken from you. You must have your one final sacrifice; your own life. This is how you repay Jesus, by denying that he slew death itself. Children not corrupted by the Christian law of sin and death can see this plain as day. If you care to take anything I've said and put it to question, please don't hesitate.

I just don't see the humor in the statement, "The Crusades were a terrible thing." Let's see here, mass slaughter of innocent people. Hmm. Falls into my terrible thing category, though I don't know about you. What you said about just trying to be courteous to other people was a very nice thing to say. I know it's a good thing because here on campus that's the norm. Everyone holds the door for everyone else, says please and thank you, and excuses themself when they're in someone's way. To live your life that way makes you a good person, and I like good people. And in response to your overall theme that things that seem good at the time end up being bad, and it's all in perspective, I'm here with another perspective. I'm saying that being a Christian today, a quality that most people in this country praise, is not such a good thing. I'm saying that they are terribly, terribly mistaken, but they won't find out until it's too late. You say to each his own, but the Christian way of doing things compromises that completely. They take away the will of young children to read and understand the Bible (which I think is true, though very misinterpreted). You talk about the mass killing of human bodies, I'm talking about the mass corruption of human souls. When the truth is revealed, we will look upon Christianity with disgust, but recognize that it was something that happened and we cannot change it. From the perspective of truth itself, Christianity is more terrible than all mass (blank)-cides put together. Here I am, throwing out these accusations that must be terrible to Christians, and not one of them will say a word in defense of what they believe in. They are afraid to question the beliefs that have been fed to them, but it's not their fault. Christianity is and always has been a religion that thrived on fear, and 2,000 years of cultivation has made it pretty damn effective.

The thing is, I would like to hear what other people think, but nobody will tell me. Give me your thoughts and ideas, please. Don't assume I don't want anybody's opinion, because that's not true. I can't argue my points if they don't conflict with someone else's. Not a single home-grown Christian has replied. If I have to debate with agnostics, I'll debate with agnostics. All it does is help me clarify my thoughts and ideas, and that's all I'm asking for.

Hmm, pre-marital sex, eh? Well, here's how it is. The only people who tell you it's a problem will be Christians or people that have had bad experiences with it. If two people are in love and of a healthy age, why shouldn't they? If you do happen to have pre-marital sex, there are two types. 1. Fornication: If you have sex just because you like it, and you don't care who you do it with, you're fornicating. Yay... 2. Making love: If you have sex with someone you love, that's good and everything. However, once you have sex with that person, you might as well consider yourselves married, because if either of you have sex with any other person, you're fornicating again. I personally would only have sex with someone I loved, and following that consider myself bonded to them. I would consider myself to be committing adultery if I slept with anyone else. I would also consider it adultery if she slept with anyone else. It's not legally binding at all, but as my religion and morals go, nothing could be more permanent.

Ok, thanks, didn't know about the report thing. I won't do this again, I just wanted to do what I could to discourage people from reading his posts.

I hope any young people out there who aren't suited for disgusting, sexual posts read this before they look at what xer zam wrote. I'm only posting this in hopes that people who don't wish to see this kind of material aren't duped into thinking it's an honest topic. I hope I'm not out of line posting this, but the threads are still there and free to be viewed by the public. If I must open this for discussion, then I ask why those threads are still there? Can't mods delete threads completely? I see that he's already banned, and that's a start, but the younger people who view these boards should not be exposed to those sorts of things, and there's no way to tell whether it's an honest post or not except by reading it. Thank you. EDIT: I see that xer zam is banned, but why is he still able to post? And he's replying to this, so feel free to delete it.

The Crusades were a terrible thing, but I don't hold that against today's Christians whatsoever. Those people were just being human. When you give humans power, they tend to abuse it, Christian or not. It does, however, show that long ago Christians were wrong on a very large scale. Since events such as these happened, it shows us that the religion has never been perfect. What I propose is much larger than the crusade. I assert that no person following the commonly accepted Christian religion has had any kind of salvation. Most people would curse me thousands of times for saying this person or that person wasn't good enough to get to heaven. Those same people would curse me for saying this person or that person didn't go to hell, because that is what I am saying, also. This is why Christians refuse to answer me. I openly dare any Christian to take anything I've said and question it.

I'm sorry, but this is going to be brief :( The body is a complete unit, and you can't take someone's physical brain and move it, expecting it to work. To that end, certain parts have certain functions. What if you lose a part of memory? Are you still yourself? Here's something to chew on. [I]everything is physical[/I] . The mind is just a product of the physical brain. You can't put someone's brain in someone elses body, because they will die. As for dreams, they're not real. Even if you convince yourself they are, they still aren't. They have no place within the limits of our reality, which are time and space. Your perception of the world is not the world. Even our lives today, we miss so much. There's more going on than we're aware of. If you can change who you are, then you've changed your personality and attitude. You are unique in every way, and no part of you can function unattached from the rest. The truth about reality is out there, but not even all the minds and bodies of the world put together can completely understand its complexities.

Well now, it's threads like these that make me wish I were a big bad Moderator. Someone will probably tell you this, but don't double post and don't insult people. *points to the left where it says Rules*

Everyone always talks about some other force driving whether they feel bad or good. They say, "things will get better eventually" or "you should talk to God about it, you'll feel better." First of all, things won't get better until you let them get better. You can't just expect good things to come to you and take your pain away. When you talk to God, you're really only talking to yourself, because He's inside you, not far off in a distant Heaven. Essentially, the truth and the answers you seek are all inside yourself. Those who separate themselves from everything that matters to them and embrace monotony are ripping their hearts out of their chest. You will find yourself with some choices. You can wait for the wound to heal, you can remove whatever is wounded, or you can try to understand why it hurts. Everyone has their problems, and they can either blacken your soul or make you stronger. Take care of what you can control, and leave nothing to fate, because fate is out to screw you. It's easier to find good things in life if you look for them. If it helps you to hear people's problems, then I guess you can hear mine. When I was a kid, I was very unpopular and made fun of constantly. This went on for 10 or so years, and now my perspective on life is that everyone who meets me and doesn't know me very well hates me. I can trust a select few people, but everyone else talks about me behind my back and has a very unfavorable disposition towards me. I can sit here and tell you that it may not be true, but as far as living is concerned, I have as much faith in that as I do anything else. It doesn't really bother me, though. It's like losing an arm. You will miss it, especially when you need it, but on a day to day basis, it doesn't really bother you. Nobody here can make you feel better, you have to do that by yourself, within yourself.

[QUOTE=Rhian][size=1][font=veranda][color=indigo] How the hell (pardon) can God leave if he?s everything? In everything? Everyone? That is extremely stupid. I get really ticked off when someone says, ?Have you found God?? Because, according to Christians, He never really left. How can I not have found Him? He?s [I]God[/I]. Erm? >> Not meaning to contradict what you said, but if Jesus took our sins, then we don?t really have a choice in the matter on being saved. He either took away our sins or he didn?t. If he did, we?re saved, and there?s no sin big enough to contradict what Jesus did for us. Of course, me not being Christian may make you ignore what I?ve said, but please think about it. Rhian[/size][/font][/color][/QUOTE] The first one is easy to answer. God is in everything but sin. He did leave us, but he came back. He took our sins away when he died for us on the cross, and now he lives within all of us again. We do have a choice when it comes to being saved. [I]Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.[/I] If you close your ears to the truth Jesus gave us and don't believe in God, even He cannot save you. Man has free will, and only man has the ability to condemn himself. We would have no purpose without free will. We would all be God. I suppose you can love Jesus if you respect other Gods, but you don't believe him. If you take any one thing He said and choose to disregard it, you may as well disregard everything, because there is no incomplete faith. It is an all or nothing decision. I still have class, so I can't quote the Bible more and show you the complete truth, but I have all weekend and I'll get around to it :D

First, to wrist cutter: I hope you don't think I'm rude, but almost everything I write is met with cynicism, and I was wondering if you were being serious or sarcastic. Here's the paragraph you chose to highlight, Azurewolf Your arguments are based on how the Bible has been interpreted for a very long time, Azurewolf. More than once, we have been wrong about something, to the extent that people who questioned these things were thought of as insane... Reincarnation. If you, personally, want to take any of my ideas and talk about it specifically, I'd be happy to explain myself, but all you are doing is pointing me in the direction of someone who has surrounded his life with the Bible and the churches' unchanging view of it. First, let's get one thing straight. I'm not stupid. I read your post and know that you're not a Christian. All you told me to do was talk to a bishop, and that's what I'm referring to here, though that seems to have slipped by you. I'm sorry you misunderstood. As for me not addressing your comments, they consisted of you telling me to find a bishop and talk to him. My reply is that one must be like a child to get into heaven, which is in the bible (yes, I'll quote this for you) [I]Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.[/I] If you want to isolate any one of my ideas and ask where I found it in the bible, I can do that. I hope you understand better. If it helps, I will edit this post later with lots and lots of verses and my own interpretation, but it's 12:30 A.M. I believe I've cleared away half of your complaints though.

Read my posts with the perspective that I disagree with the commonly accepted traditions of Christianity, and it should clear things up.

[quote name='Sword Breaker][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=DarkRed]Ok, this is somthing I've been thinking about lately. I know everyone goes through a stage like this, but I've been contemplating life lately, and I've simply found it... completly pointless. Well, I posed the question to myself a few times, and came up with one, solid answere. In the form of a nifty lil' qoute! "Why do those destined to die strive so hard to achive?". So, ultimantly, I was wondering, what answeres can you come up with? Is there anyone who can pose a suitable response to a question such as this! Thoughts on this, comments, anything is welcomed.[/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote] You have a choice. You can say, "Life is completely pointless." or you can try to find a point. If you don't have the will to find meaning in life, then you should probably just die. So, I guess, all I can say to you is better luck next time. The truth will be known to us all in the end, and there's no use wasting time in this life if you don't care to look for it. If, however, you were asking for the meaning of life, I could tell you that. If that's what you want, ask for it. Otherwise, you should probably just die. It won't ask your questions, but it will make them go away :D

Your arguments are based on how the Bible has been interpreted for a very long time, Azurewolf. More than once, we have been wrong about something, to the extent that people who questioned these things were thought of as insane. The world was flat a few hundred years ago. Everybody knew it and could point you in the direction of someone who could tell you why. The Christian religion works this way. As soon as you can begin to understand language, they begin explaining what the Bible means. My parents were not Christians, so do you know what I had to do? I had to read the Bible myself. And do you want to know what I thought of the first time I read it? Reincarnation. If you, personally, want to take any of my ideas and talk about it specifically, I'd be happy to explain myself, but all you are doing is pointing me in the direction of someone who has surrounded his life with the Bible and the churches' unchanging view of it. Christians look at Jesus' sacrifice like this. Jesus: "Here's an apple, take it." Man: "Here's a dollar, I'll pay for it." Jesus: "It's free. I'm giving it to you." Man: "I'd feel better paying for it. I can't accept it without paying the price." Jesus: "You won't take it from me, because you think I want to be paid?" Man: "Yes, you want to be paid for the apple, and I won't take it without paying." Man lives his life, and he can't wait to die. He can't wait to give Jesus his dollar to pay him back for taking our sins away. He thinks he will smile and say, Man: "I did it! I gave you my dollar and now the apple is mine!" When in fact, that man will find himself with another chance to take the apple, because Jesus in his generosity will never pull his hand back. He paid for it with his blood, and he wants to give it to you. He is not going to let you pay him for a gift. So, you can eat what has been fed to you and millions before you, having faith in the noble sacrifice of yourself to receive from Jesus, or you can pick up the Bible and read it with [I]a child's mind and a child's heart.[/I] Because, if you have ever read the bible yourself, you will see that this is [I]exactly[/I] what Jesus says you need to do. I read the Bible with a child's mind and a child's heart. You read it and believe in it with man's heart. You and all your fellow Christians have done the most terrible thing imaginable. You have stolen the hearts and minds of children, blocking them from the truth which would have been so easy for them to obtain. You point me in the direction of bishops. I point you in the direction of the Bible. Be as a child, and you will take the apple and keep your blood.

What makes people sure of an afterlife, if we cannot experience it? And since we've had so much talk about this "afterlife", where's the "beforelife?" Here's an idea. Maybe there's just life. No after, no before, just different stages. "Then what happens to us when we die, Mr. Adahn?" Well, what happened to you the last time you died? "I've never died!" How can you be so sure? Can you look into the past beyond when you were born? Would you have any way of knowing? "I was born, my life began. Eventually, my life will end." What if your life didn't begin when you were born? Maybe it began when your soul was born. "My soul was born with my body, both were created at the same time, and those two things make me what I am today!" Hmm, so your soul had a beginning, then? Well, let me introduce you to one of the laws that everything follows. Everything that has a beginning has an end. It is indisputable, and applicable to everything. How can you say your soul had a beginning and be so confident that it will not end? "Umm..." The way I see it, you have two choices. Either your soul was born and your soul will die, or your soul always was and always will be. "Then what does happen to my soul when I die?" You live another life with the same heart and mind, but a different body. The same eternal soul that has always been in you driving everything you do. "That kinda sucks..." Yes, it does kinda suck. So, there has to be an end to this cycle, right? "There'd better be *crosses arms*" If all lives are lived within this realm, what makes you think perfection can't be reached without death? "Everybody dies! Even Jesus died!" Jesus lives within us all, and he has the power to save us from death. He did what needed to be done 2,000 years ago, he saved us, but we won't accept that. We ask for forgiveness when we have already been forgiven, and punish ourselves with death. Yes, we bring it upon ourselves. "So, what do we have to do to stop dying?" Accept that death was done away with 2,000 years ago. Live with Jesus in this world, not reaching for some distant sky, because this sky is the only one we can live under. If you accept that you are going to die and deny everthing that He did to save us, then you will die. If you have faith in that Jesus saved us, then open your arms and your heart and embrace salvation, because it all happens here. Here's an afterthought. Were men created to die? What would have happened to Adam and Eve had they not sinned? I believe that sin is what separated us from God and brought death upon us. Had Adam and Eve stayed faithful, they would never had died. "But if they don't die, how can the get to heaven?" They were together with God, they were in heaven. When we sinned, God left the earth because it was infected with sin, which it had never been before. I ask you, what did Jesus do? "He died for us. He died for our sins!" If he died for our sins, then why should we have to die? If he has taken them from us, then we should be as Adam and Eve were before they sinned. We should be immortal. "Well, then why aren't we immortal if Jesus already took away our sins?" This is where Christians almost have it right. They say that one needs to accept Jesus' forgiveness to be saved and go to heaven. "Lots of people have accepted Jesus, including me." Wrong. You all deny that your sins were taken away by welcoming death, which He took from us. You have accepted nothing from him, only stuck with your unshakeable faith in death, which should never have existed. What is armageddon, which has become such a popular topic? It is the transformation of Earth into Heaven, as it was meant to be. The end of the world will come, but only to the world as we know it. I'd like to know what any of you think. And yes, I did post this on a different thread, but I deleted that post (which had no replies) and felt it would be best if I gave the subject it's own topic. If this is at all inappropriate, I ask only for a reasonable explanation before the thread is closed.

I have a feeling I'm going to have to do this with all my posts... [quote name='Adahn']Welcome to America, where you can have your personal opinion on any minority and band together to bash said minorities in blissful recompense for their mortal sins.[/quote] This expresses my displeasure at the general mean-spiritidness that plagues our country, and introduces the thought that such things are out of our hands. [QUOTE=Adahn] Essentially, not putting my own opinion into anything, what is popular will be practiced.[/QUOTE] This is me saying that majority rules, and saying that I'll try not to let my personal opinions interfere with my point. [QUOTE=Adahn] If the majority of people don't like gay people, then the majority of people don't like gay people.[/QUOTE] This supports the topic of my paragraph (though I generally don't give a rats *** about paragraphs or topic sentences). It further emphasizes that the popular opinion of the people is out of the control of anything which would wish to control it (except for maybe the media). [QUOTE=Adahn] That may or may not change, but one thing is true. Everyone has a choice (no, I am NOT saying people can choose whether to be gay or not), and choices have consequences.[/QUOTE] This, I thought, was pretty self-explanatory. Everyone has the ability to make decisions (I hope), and recognize that certain events (consequences) may result from them. [QUOTE=Adahn] Your friendly neighborhood gay person can flaunt his/her homosexuality and get bashed, or he/she can keep his/her personal life to him/herself and live relatively well.[/QUOTE] This means nothing more than it says. Homosexuals choose how they display their homosexuality, and choosing to expose their feelings to the public will generally be met with open hostility. However, most people keep their relationships to themselves (heterosexuals, too), and those that can't help but display their love can expect consequences, too, though they may not be as harsh as the consequences for homosexuals. Let me repeat myself. This means nothing more than it says. It is just an expansion on the earlier point that actions have consequences, and the "rightness" of the actions does not protect someone from the consequences. (take Jesus, for example) [QUOTE=Adahn] If a person can't control how he/she acts, then, he/she can join the club. Nobody has complete control over everything dictating their lives, one can only try to influence it for the better of themselves and those around them.[/QUOTE] This supports, yes, another point previously made. This stresses the inability of an individual to control what happens to him/her. This inability is what makes it impossible for a homosexual to say, "Leave me alone." and expect everyone to go, "Ok." and stop pestering him/her for the rest of his/her life. If it is better for someone to put oneself in a difficult position to support a point, then that individual shouldn't complain about the consequences that come, because be they right or wrong, they knew the consequences. For example, if I decided to start an anti-children campaign, I would be looked down upon, no matter how strong my hate for children and love for everything unchildlike. I would do better to sit in my dorm room and make little voodoo dolls of children out of onions and squish them or poke them with pointy things. If, however, someone wants to attempt to live a normal life actively participating in something seen unacceptable to the greater human population, then they will still be looked upon unfavorably. This is just another consequence to another action. It doesn't really matter what the purpose behind the action is, the action is an action and consequences will result from it. [QUOTE=Adahn] I'm not saying being gay is wrong, but I'm also not saying it's right. [/QUOTE] This is me not saying being gay is right. This is also me not saying being gay is wrong. [QUOTE=Adahn] If it causes problems for an individual, then, that individual has a problem. Here's a newsflash; we all have problems.[/QUOTE] This explains that everybody has their own problems, and that everyone sort of has the same life. You can't say your problems are worse than anyone else's, because you don't have their problems, and you cope with your problems differently than other people cope with theirs. If there's a boy hungry in a 3rd world country, does that make his problem worse than anyone else's? That boy is probably such a hardass that if we were put into the same situation, we'd die and he'd go living another 30 years. People have their own distinct lives and problems, and learn to deal with them like any other human being. [QUOTE=Adahn] It is only those that can be sympathized with on a massive scale that are brought into the limelight(sp?) here in America. I say this to everyone in existence. To each his own, whatever that may imply.[/QUOTE] If lots of people get together, they can ***** about their problem until they are heard. This is a good thing! If lots of people have the same problem, that makes it more important than anyone else's problems! Wait a minute...If anything, homosexuals are lucky to have a chance to band together and deal with it together. I have my own problems (not really), and I wish I could get people together to ***** with me! I'm hungry, and I want a sandwich! (forms the organization M.F.M.D.S aka Men for the Mass Distribution of Sandwiches). I wouldn't trade my problems for anyone else's, and I hope nobody else would trade theirs, either. Our struggles are what make us who we are, and distinguish ourselves among other human beings. Oh, and I'm sorry lava lamp. I wanted to try to make an unopinionated post, and in my frustration at my failure, I vented it out on you. Now that I've made myself clear (or at least verbose), feel free to comment on anything that tickles your fancy (can't believe he just said that and wonders why he didn't delete it).

[QUOTE=lava lamp] So what you're fundamentally saying is living a lie is an acceptable solution to bigotry. But when people who don't agree with who I'm sleeping with go out of their way to cause problems [i]for[/i] me, they're...? Here is a newsflash: it is in the limelight, and I think it will stay there until change on a "massive scale" is seen. Your tone is almost one of disbelief. Homosexuals are a minority, yes, but I don't think you realize how large of one they are exactly.[/QUOTE] Ok, let's have a look at your "reply". 1. I said living a lie is an acceptable solution to bigotry. 2. I left out that it was people who were causing problems for homosexuals. 3. I am in disbelief at all the oppression faced by them, and I don't realize that there are lots of homosexuals. How exactly is this not a personal attack? Am I wrong to go on the defensive? I apparently didn't explain myself well enough, so I'll try again. I said that people have a choice as to how they live their lives, knowing full well the consequences. Supporting a cause can seem to be honorable, especially when you are oppressed and you believe you are right. I thought I made it clear that it was other people who were doing all the oppressing, but you pointed out that I had not, when I had. That's the whole point of the thread, people causing problems for homosexuals, and you take a part of what I wrote and say that I missed that little detail? I do know that there are many homosexuals, in fact, there are tons here on campus. A few days ago it was National Coming Out Day or something, and it was celebrated on campus, and it made the front page of the campus newspaper. So, yes, I think I do understand that there are many, many homosexuals. You wanted to find out exactly what I meant, and I'll say it again. (tries using bold letters this time) [B]Maybe I said what I meant.[/B] You say that my being defensive shows how uncomfortable I am? I'm very obviously being attacked, and I'm doing what comes naturally (covers his head and flees in terror). And no, I'm not uncomfortable talking about it. And yes, I do have an opinion, but I have chosen not to state it. If you want it, ask for it. Else, sit in the dark, because I'll shed no further light on my beliefs to you.

Ok, now, let me get something straight. The original question was, "Why do gay people get bashed?" My answer was, "Because most people don't like gay people." If you'll read through my post, you'll see I'm not making any assumptions or stating any of my opinions. You can dig through what I said and try to find what I meant, but here's something for you to consider. [I]maybe I said what I meant[/I] . I believe I answered the original question, and I don't deserve to have my post nitpicked, and I certainly don't appreciate opinions being drawn out of it. If you look at my post again with the thought that I support your cause, I will seem to be supporting your cause. You are the one who is passing judgments and discriminating against me.

Ok now, here's what I think of genetics and intelligence. My sister and I are remarkably similar. She has the same problems I had when I was her age, thought the same things, gets the same grades, has the same kind of friends, won the same spelling bees, sees herself the same way, and is basically a female me 6 years ago. We both happen to share a photographic memory and a need to understand the importance of our existence. When I talk to her, I feel like I'm talking to myself (yes, it does freak me out, seeing as she's 12). My brother, on the other hand, is completely unlike us in every way. Neither of us are extremely similar to either one of our parents in any way. The combination of my mother's and father's genes have spawned what we are, and basing my conclusion off of the similarities between Alix (my sister) and myself, I must say that genetics has a tremendous role in the determination of intelligence. (thinks of his creepy little sister, who demands to be called "Melix") She also trusts me more than anyone, loves me dearly, and will tell me things she wouldn't even consider telling anyone else. (loves his little Melix) It's sort of like having a mini-me, except for obvious physiological differences. Lastly, I assert that everything I've told you is true, and if you saw the way we talk to each other, it would creep you out because the words come from the same heart and mind. Meh, I'm done.

Welcome to America, where you can have your personal opinion on any minority and band together to bash said minorities in blissful recompense for their mortal sins. Essentially, not putting my own opinion into anything, what is popular will be practiced. If the majority of people don't like gay people, then the majority of people don't like gay people. That may or may not change, but one thing is true. Everyone has a choice (no, I am NOT saying people can choose whether to be gay or not), and choices have consequences. Your friendly neighborhood gay person can flaunt his/her homosexuality and get bashed, or he/she can keep his/her personal life to him/herself and live relatively well. If a person can't control how he/she acts, then, he/she can join the club. Nobody has complete control over everything dictating their lives, one can only try to influence it for the better of themselves and those around them. I'm not saying being gay is wrong, but I'm also not saying it's right. If it causes problems for an individual, then, that individual has a problem. Here's a newsflash; we all have problems. It is only those that can be sympathized with on a massive scale that are brought into the limelight(sp?) here in America. I say this to everyone in existence. To each his own, whatever that may imply.

I'm going to have a little bit of fun with this. What makes you think that you're going to die? Can you prove that you're not immortal? I wouldn't live my life assuming I could jump off bridges or dance across highways without getting hurt, because faith isn't about testing, it's about believing. I challenge any one of you to prove your mortality to me, in whatever way you see fit. (no, I'm not asking you to kill yourself, though this would be a fun way to go about it)

[QUOTE=eternity][COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1] [i] I'd rather go to Hell than not exist. [/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE] Amen, I think exactly like you do. Sorry that this is short, but I just want you to know that that is EXACTLY what I think and how I feel, to the letter.