Adahn

[size=2]If your friend is exhibiting signs of kleptomania (stealing obsession), then the worst thing you could do is ignore it and let her keep the item. I don't know what position you are in, but I have a couple of suggestions. Please carefully consider which of these, if any, would be appropriate, depending on your knowledge of the relationships involved.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]1. Discuss the stealing problem with your friend. Find information on kleptomania, and ask her specifically about the symptoms. If you find it best to be subtle, drop them into normal conversation, and when you know she's recognized the symptoms in herself, tell her about kleptomania, show her information about it, and make available to her any sources you have found that could help her with her problem.[/size] [size=2]2. Talk to her parents about it. Try to be as understanding as possible. Bring your sister so she can back up your story, and anybody else who knows for a fact that you owned the item. Make sure you let her parents know you are concerned more about her problem than the item itself. If she is your friend, this shouldn't be a problem, as your concern for her should be more important than the object stolen.[/size] [size=2]3. With as much information as possible, bring the problem to the attention of your school guidance counselor and principal. They will know a good way to examine your friend, and if they cannot convince her to give the item back, they probably have the best chance of finding help for her, if outside help is what she needs.[/size] [size=2]4. Bring the situation to your parents' attention, and have them meet with your friend's parents. If they are all reasonable and careful, you should get the item back, and the girl's parents will hopefully choose the correct course of action. Punishment may be enough to stop the problem, but if it's kleptomania, she will probably need professional help.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If you lose your friend over any of this, I apologize. I only hope that the effort you make leads to her being a better person, and even if you do lose touch, you will know that you made a good impact on her life, and made the best out of a bad situation.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Again, if none of this seems appropriate to your situation, please disregard them. I hope all goes well, and I look forward to a favorable update from you sometime soon :)[/size]

[size=2]I really like this thread, but I want more. I love philosophy, it's such a treat. It's like my favorite food that I forgot all about, and every time I find it again, I get to take a bite. So yummy. I'm going to look into myself and see what I can dig out. I've got some thoughts floating around that I want to be more corporeal, so if in their condensation they seem confused, it's because they haven't quite gotten knocked into order yet.[/size] [size=2]I have no qualms against laying down my transient thoughts, and only after reading responses and re-reading my posts do I have a more fixed perspective. It's grudging to admit, but I probably would like reading the great philosophers, and I would probably benefit from it without losing anything myself. It sounded nice to say they would be stealing opportunities from me, but susceptibility to nice-sounding things is part of why I'm writing here.[/size] [size=2]Here on good old OB, I tend not to be very persuasive. I like being argumentative and hard-headed. It's a challenge, sometimes, and conflict is enjoyable. It's easy for me to weave words together and pull ideas out of my posterior, so I do it with great pleasure. I do have some good ideas, I think, but I'm such an *** about getting them across that they have little effect on what other people think.[/size] [size=2]Unless you're trained against it, or forced to recognize it, I can be very persuasive. Persuasion is all about flowery and enticing language. You must make it appear to flow, rather than make your arguments seem etched in a tall, stone obelisk in a scratchy hand. If there is a strong mind behind the words, the persuasion can be dangerous. I do not know if I'm strong enough, or if I have a good enough way with words, but from now on, I will attempt to assume the writing form of a dangerously persuasive man.[/size] [size=2]Jacqueline and Alex have been together only for a month, but they know in their hearts that they are soulmates. They decide to get engaged, and their friends, Stephanie and Greg take them out to dinner to celebrate. Throughout the night, both Stephanie and Greg notice that there is a very strong connection between Jacky (her nickname) and Alex. Stephanie and Greg appreciate this quality in their friends, and stay together, hoping to one day experience what Jacky and Alex have. Over the period of engagement, they only grow closer, and after their wedding, the four find themselves once again dining out in celebration. Steph and Greg see that the connection between Jacky and Alex is so strong, that the previous apparent oneness is now a complete oneness. They find it difficult to think of one without the other, and thus consider them, in all ways, to be one.[/size] [size=2]From Steph and Greg's perspective, there are three separate entities at the table. The waitress does not perceive this connection, and she considers them four. One thing is certain, though. Except for the different perspectives, all that make up Jacky, Alex, Greg, and Steph does not change as a result of these perspectives. From one perspective, Jacky and Alex are one, and grouped to be one, and Greg and Steph are separate entities, and as such grouped as two. The other perspective groups them all as four. So, what do we have?[/size] [size=2]1 + 2 = 4[/size] [size=2]Is this not an accurate representation of the situation? Both perceptions are correct, in their own way, but it shows Mathematics for what it is. Mathematics is an imperfect model for balance. It fails when we make combinations that don't conform to its rules, and make comparisons from different perspectives.[/size] [size=2]The beauty of balance is that it is an absolute that encompasses all relativism. The relative perceptions that create 1 + 2 on one side, and 4 on another side make perfect sense when the balance between them is understood.[/size] [size=2]Now, though I have tried to assume a more persuasive nature, my desire for conflict aches to be fulfilled. You may challenge my child, my beautiful balance, and I will defend her with all the ability I possess. We will make you see her as I do. It is best, though, if you accept her. Know her, love her, cherish her, and live by her. Unlike most other things, she is absolute, and she will never, ever, fail you.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]EDIT: Retribution, excuse me if I am wrong, but you seem to be interested in the same topic of study as I. My major is Cell and Molecular Biology (Biotechnology), and nanotechnology is a related field. I don't know how you feel about DNA, but what do you think of using our own genetic 'machinery' to custom design proteins to serve as biological machines? Do you prefer nanotechnology as it doesn't (yet) require us to utilize and change the biological, or is it just that you find it interesting? Would you also find custom genetic coding interesting, or off-limits? If I miss the true reason, I apologize, and mean nothing by it. It's just so strange to find someone with the same (possible) interests as I.[/size]

[size=2]Well, Phaedrus, I'll leave you and your discussion with Papa Smurf, and address your numbers question.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Does 2 + 2 = 4? That sort of question can only be answered with a yes or a no, and I will not do that, I will examine the equation itself and disregard your question. Let's see it alone.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]2 + 2 = 4[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]The symbol "2", is a number, used to keep track of things. I know what it means to hold up two (2) fingers. It holds a place of distinction. There are many ways to represent the number, but the idea of 2, regardless of the symbol expressing it, is unique. No other idea besides a number can represent it.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]The plus (+) sign indicates addition. You may take anything, be it number or some other entity, and add them. All addition requires is that you relate the two (or more) things that are being added in a meaningful way. If you have a "2" in the center of the sun, and another "2" one million lightyears away, you can connect them by adding them together. You can say, "Together, they are four." Addition is a way of grouping and categorizing things, forcing them into a type of sameness that allows you to consider them one thing, by means of the grouping. Time and distance are no hindrance to addition.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]My favorite part is the equals (=) sign. It tells us that there is a balance between what it separates. It is another way of relating two things, but this relation implies a separateness. 2 + 2 and 4 are related in that following through with the addition of one "2" and another "2" will then allow you to group them in another way, making them into a single "4". It also tells you that you can "split" a single "4" in two 'equal' groups, namely two "2's", however you like. The difference is just that, a difference. If "2 + 2" and "4" were [i]exactly[/i] the same thing, you could write 4 = 4, which is redundant, in that you can mathematically remove the group "4" from each side, giving you 0 = 0. Since writing two groups of nothing and relating them to each other is pointless, all you're left with is "=". The sign for balance in all things. If you want an absolute, I will give you one, and only one. Balance is an absolute. Whether we see it or not, Balance is in all things. It is not something we can meld to our will. Can you say good and evil are balanced? Can you say good = evil? You cannot force balance to work for you. You must discover its rules, and follow them. Absolutes are things that we cannot change, by any action or inaction of will. Balance is one of those things.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]So, your original question was, Does 2 + 2 = 4? I don't much like the word 'does' here, but hopefully my exploration of 2 + 2 = 4 can help you see how I view it.[/size]

[size=2]I don't have unlimited time, again, so I may not be able to respond to everything.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2][Quote=Phaedrus][/size] You're wrong to say philosophers don't care about what you care about. There is a philosopher out there who has already written parts of what you think down. You have a very close-minded approach to the pursuit of truth. . . You seem seduced by science. Science, the study of pragmatic truth, is a worthy area of focus. . .but you make many assumptions. However, the beauty you see in science--I understand it. It is quite beautiful. However, beauty is everywhere, and outside of science it exists too. In philosophy it exists. . . Philosophy isn't necessarily just the study of big names, of scholarly men who used multisyllabic words and strange words. That's just the Western heritage of it, and even within the Western heritage there's men who don't fit this stereotype of Western philosophers you seem to have. So, who is this "God" you speak of? I really don't know who or what you're talking about at all. You assume this "God" has made everything. Do you know this? Or do you just believe this? Is belief enough for you to live by? I'd rather pursue truth and knowledge. As far as wanting to become greater than "God". . .well, as a philosopher I understand that it's impossible for me to out-do such a thing. I'm just as in awe of things as you are, but I look at the big picture. For all you know, perhaps God is the sum of all things in reality. We're made up of cells and atoms, science has taught us, correct? So following this, perhaps we are just God's atoms or God's cells, as are all the animals on this earth. Perhaps if you could take all the things in reality, just [i]everything[/i] at once and see it all at once, you'd see God. Perhaps all the things in reality--us, the moon, the ocean, this and that and that in all its infinitude--is God. Perhaps this God, if it programmed this DNA, did so as an evil genius, as Descartes put forward. Perhaps you're deceived in your assumptions. . . I don't think you have to study philosophy, but you've said you'd like to have studied it, and that philosophy is important to you. . .yet you're unwilling to put aside your dogmas and truly let other ideas fill you. "But why search outside myself when I can search within myself for answers." Why? Because your "self" is an abstraction. It's not real. And each day, as you live in this day-by-day existence, people you walk by, words you say to them, another "you" is born. It's like a great big wall of mirrors. Everyone has a different idea of who you are in their head, and none completely agree with the idea of you you have in yours. I used to be egotistical, in the vein you are. I wouldn't call yours straight-out egotisim, but you are quite stuck within yourself and your dogmas as far as I can tell. Everything was about "me," and I cared nothing for anything else. Part of buddhism is a realization that your "self" is an unreal thing, and that the only real "self" that there is is a type of higher consciousness, a collection of everything. Why would you seek answers outside yourself? Well, because the answers are outside yourself. "You" is just an abstraction. All things are more connected than you'd like to think. "You" are a part of [i]everything[/i], and everything's a part of you. [/quote] [size=2]If someone else has written down what I think, without my knowledge of it, does that make it any less of a personal discovery? I have read many books that have spit my own thoughts back at me, but just because someone else mass-produced the words before I thought them doesn't make them any less mine. To read other philosophers may allow me to skip ahead to new wonders of thought, but I want to think them through myself, without their help. If I listen to other philosophers and accept their ideas, I'm robbing myself of the ability to think those things out for myself.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Science is not a seduction, it is something I find interesting, useful, and full of new possibilities. That, and I'm quite good at it. It will never be my focus. My focus is happiness for myself and my family. Everything else is a diversion, though worthwhile.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I know the beauty of philosophy, and had I let it, THAT is what would have seduced me. I could be swallowed up in it, forgetting my dreams and goals. No, I will not be a mad scientist, but I would make a very mad philosopher.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I've addressed philosophers already, but I will add something. If I were to be a philosopher, I would not want anybody to read my words. I would not publish my thoughts, as that would be like stealing my ideas into their heads (if that makes any sense). The one thing I would make public would be, "Don't listen to me, not a word! Think for yourself!"[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]What can be seen and learned of God is buried in His language, DNA, that makes us what we are. I hope to find Him and understand Him there. All things are physical, even the spiritual is just a misunderstood manifestation of the physical.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If I am deceived, I am deceived, but I do not believe this to be the case. There is no use arguing over what cannot be changed. I will live and act as I will.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]The whole mirrors thing seems a lot like straight Sociology to me, and while Sociology has its uses, I'm not going to make a belief system out of it. In fact, you make all of Buddhism seem quite a bit like Sociology, are you aware of this?[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Syk3, I'm sure there are many things in Philosophical writings that could help me, but I still don't want to be helped. I am happy developing and honing my own tools, and if they are not quite as sharp as the masters', well, I'm no master of philosophy.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]T13M, you are correct in your talk of how humanity grows. However, I think philosophy doesn't grow. It changes and falls back into itself and melds, but there is no train of thought that can be achieved to move humanity even a step further than it already has been moved. We may build nations on philosophies, but just because it's new doesn't mean it's an improvement.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2][/size]

[size=2]I would have loved to study philosophy all the time. I would have enjoyed it to my heart's content. I might even have enough talent to pull it off as a job, but I don't want it for a job. Whatever I could write, however beautiful it could be, however it could change people, it would be nothing in my eyes. Instead, I work philosophy into my life. I weave it into my thoughts and desires, I merge with it without becoming it.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I'm a Cell and Molecular Biology major. I want to understand DNA. I see it as God's language. I am also not ashamed of messing with it. I suppose a metaphor could nicely sum up my thoughts.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]God is the writer of a programming language, DNA, and has created some amazing programs. I want to learn the language, but I do not aspire to become greater than God in its understanding. Who can out-program someone genius enough to write a language like this? I want to read bases, and see the amino acids. I want to recognize genes, and the syntaxes that make them into subroutines. I want to see up to the quaternary configuration as the proteins form. I want to know their active sites, their functions. I want to look at a genome and see the organism. I may need to use or create some very complex equipment and programs to even begin, and just the difficulty of that is a testament to God and my inferiority.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]That's why I'm not a philosophy major. I've found something that interests me, and created my own philosophy about it. I'm not going to study other philosophers, because they don't care about the things I care about. What makes their ideas worth studying, anyway? How are they better than me? Sure, they're interesting, and they may give me breakthroughs in thought, but why search outside myself when I can search within myself for answers?[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Sorry if I rambled, I don't have much time, and I have to get to class.[/size]

[size=2]Well, the whole argument thing has wound down a bit, so why don't we let it sleep? That's no reason not to carry on a conversation, though.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I've been sick lately too, for over a week. I think it's bronchitis, but my cough isn't as bad as the last time I had it, so I'm not sure. If you'd like to banter back and forth, I'm usually up for debating something interesting, but if it's to be here, it really should be more directly related to the topic.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I find it hard to not hold animosity towards the people who emotionally abused me at school, but I don't regret what was done to me. It made me into a pretty fine person, if I do say so myself, and I'm quite happy being me.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]None of you will probably ever be in any of my classes, so you'll never know how smart I am. Also, I'm much better at making people angry or annoyed with me than I am at convincing them to see something my way, so I don't expect to make a good impression here. I can be persuasive when I want something, but all I really want here is to explore.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I wouldn't really mind more friends, but I commute to my school, and with a full schedule, it's hard to find time. I'm thinking about living on campus for my senior year, so that might be interesting. Also, any friends I make would more than likely be temporary, what with having to go to graduate school and all.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Oh, I'm quite happy with my life, it's just that I always have a goal to work for, and it always seems so far away. It feels like I'm coasting along towards my destination, and nothing I can do will make it take less time. I know what I want, and I'm working for it, but I've been working for it my entire life, and it's tiring. It's not enough to stop me, but I sure am tired.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]We can't get cable or dsl where I live, and the only other high speed internet option is satellite. I'm not willing to spend $99.99 a month on the internet when what I have now is at least sufficient.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I hope y'all don't mind my carrying on a personal conversation here, and if you do, yeh can pick it to pieces and decide whether or not I'm being superficial somewhere. To be on the safe side, though, I'll examine what I would think to be the opposite of superficiality.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Every time you see someone and focus on them, you recognize that they are a completely and utterly unique human being with hopes, dreams, and fears, just like you. Whatever they look like, you see the beauty of humanity in them shine through like a blazing beacon, and any thoughts of disliking them for their weight, height, skin color, hygiene, or anything are washed away with an intense feeling of love for this being that stands before you.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Non-superficiality is empathy to the extreme. Could we then judge the superficiality of others by questioning them about their empathy?[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2][/size]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][color=darkorange][font=Century Gothic]I'll be honest with ya. I am trying to be difficult. You wanna know why? Eh, it's simply because i like getting into arguments with people. I get enjoyment out of it. Though just because my main reason for arguing with you is for fun doesn't mean that i didn't mean what i said. You still failed to answer my true question, my core question, the form of my question. You've answered the modified version of it, if my question was the form of the color blue then you answered the blueish green version. Of course, i've said this before...though it seems you still haven't figured that out. [color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [size=2][color=#000000]I don't mind arguments, either. It's strange, though, to have one that spans this many posts without my feeling a hint of anger. Perhaps it's the demure topic of discussion. I suppose my answer to your question doesn't have much to do with superficiality. Perhaps it's because I'm quite inexperienced in practicing it. Most of my life, I've been on the receiving end of superficiality. When I was very young, I had bad eyes, so I had to wear thick glasses. I was also a little socially underdeveloped, and rather intelligent. As a result, I was branded a nerd, a social outcast, and hated. Children can be the epitome of exercising superficiality. Instead of resisting the social standing forced upon me, I accepted it. I had a severely low opinion of myself, and while everyone else was off becoming popular by being idiotic, I focused my energy on school, and became quite smart.[/color][/size] [size=2][color=#000000]Now, I have a higher opinion of myself. I have a young, beautiful, sexy girlfriend, so she has the most sway over my appearance. I have no need to attract anyone, so the only effort I put into my looks is to be average looking. People still express interest in me, but they won't get even a hint of it in return. I'll give you an idea of how I interact with people.[/color][/size] [size=2][color=#000000]I'm the one who always speaks up in class. I answer questions with what I think is the correct answer, whether I know I'm right or not. I'm usually right, but sometimes I'm wrong, though it doesn't bother me in the least. I also ask questions whenever the urge rises in me. I've been told by other students that my questions blow them away. I've always been a thinker, and I'm very curious about most things. By the end of the year, in almost every class I take, everyone knows my name, and knows I'm smart. People ask me for help with problems, and if I see someone struggling, I offer it. Since I make it clear with my questions and wrong answers that I don't know everything, I don't think I give off a condescending air.[/color][/size] [size=2][color=#000000]I don't know these people, but I like helping them. I'll probably never get close enough to develop a friendship with any of them, but it doesn't matter to me. I find it difficult to understand superficiality because I don't deal with people on a superficial level. I don't want friends, I don't want love interests, I just want to get on with my life and do what must be done.[/color][/size] [QUOTE=The13thMan] As for the garbage truck thing, it seems that you truly are superficial. If it really did smell good then you shouldn't have cared what the source of the smell was. Being that you gagged purely on the thought of what you were actually smelling was unpleasant proves your superficiality. As for myself, i would have gotten a good laugh out of it, but i wouldn't have been disgusted. If it smells good, then it smells good. If it smells good, then i believe it smells good and therefore like the smell. If an ugly[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue] [removed by Moderator][/COLOR] b-a-s-t-a-r-d smelt good then i'd say, "hey, you smell good!" That's all there is to it. [color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [size=2][color=#000000]Oh, dear, here is that strangeness again. You are aware that we have five senses, yes? Are you also aware that sometimes two or more senses interact to give an impression? I did not gag purely at the thought of the garbage, I gagged at a blending of olfactory and visual stimuli. If you smell cooking meat, like bacon frying, and approach the source to find it is a man burning alive, would you laugh that off too? No, our senses do interact to give a single impression, and to separate them as you are suggesting is a very unnatural, illogical thing to do.[/color][/size] [QUOTE=The13thMan] Yup, if you had not given a reason then i would have been quite content with your answer. But to say that i prefer people not to give me a reason is completely the opposite of how i feel. I'm simply saying that your explanation was total [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][removed by Moderator][/COLOR]. There are plenty of good explanations out there. Haha...let me show you what you did. Well...i'd rather smell bad and be clean! You wanna know why? Ok...it's because pirates like to rape and pillage people that are dirty and smell clean. And i'm really flippin' scared of pirates. Once when i was a kid i was attacked by a pirate...i've never really recovered from it. I can't even watch Pirates of the Carribean without screaming my head off. That's basically what you did, my friend. You answered the question and gave a explanation that implied that you did not understand the true intent of the question itself. [color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [size=2][color=black]The question was meant to guage one's superficiality, in a way, yes? If I answer in such a way that makes you believe I didn't understand how superficiality played into the question, is that not indicative of my understanding and experience with superficiality? From my answer, you got not only a guage of my superficiality, but a rather interesting one that you have overlooked. You never stopped to examine my answer for its possible meaning, only stated that it did not meet your expectations.[/color][/size] [QUOTE=The13thMan] Hey, nobody's questioning your sexuality there buddy. I don't know why you're being all defensive about it all of a sudden. ^L^ Maybe you're just insecure? Awww, that's cute! [color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [size=2][color=#000000]How exactly am I being defensive. I only stated a couple simple little truths. I'm about as insecure as a safe carved out of diamond.[/color][/size] [QUOTE=The13thMan] Hahaha, Donkey Kong haircuts? Oh man that's good! Monkey faced too! Ya don't say! ^J^ I loves it when people take out the big guns and show some brass balls. Ok, ok, it's my turn now. [color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [size=2][color=#000000]Big guns? I merely prodded you with the blunt end of a sharp stick. I don't really want to hurt your feelings, but I feel I must be truthful. My girlfriend says you look like a f'a'g. I'm sorry, but that's just what she said. It sounded kind of mean to me, but you wanted big guns.[/color][/size] [QUOTE=The13thMan] You're a dumb doodie head poo poo face! And i'm going to have to guess you're rather ugly from the fact that you did not post a picture of yourself on my other thread. That and you're probably outrageously insecure about your own appearance. I mean c'mon, who the flip still thinks mustaches are sexy nowadays? [color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [size=2][color=#000000]Well, I have dial-up internet, so I really can't handle all the pictures on those pages. I haven't looked at it since I posted it, and I don't really feel like waiting 10-minutes to load a whole page. I think if you check my profile there's a little picture I took with my webcam, but I'm not entirely sure. That was a couple years ago, anywho. I wouldn't mind shaving my moustache, but Carly loves the thing, so it stays.[/color][/size] [QUOTE=The13thMan] I think that if you're going to try to put a person down by insulting his looks you should at least check to see rather the person is insecure about them first. Personally, i think i look damn good and nobody's going to make me think otherwise. Especially all of my female friends that agree with me that i'm hot. Maybe you should try saying i have a small penis or something. Ooo, you could make fun of my pencil or something! [/font][/color][/QUOTE][size=2]If they thought you were hot, maybe they'd want to be more than friends? I'm sure you've hinted at this a time or two, and I'll bet the answer's been, "Oh, T13M, I value our friendship so much, I just wouldn't want anything to happen that we couldn't take back. You really are hot, I'm sure there's a girl out there for you." followed by a reassuring, sincere, but slightly doting, smile. They're probably really good at hiding pity, I mean, it's what girls do best. The size of your penis really is a non-issue, as I doubt anyone besides yourself will ever have any interest in it.[/size] [size=2]P.S.[/size] [size=2]If I'm being too harsh, don't be afraid to tell me. I can always tone it down a little.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]EDIT: It seemed strange that of all things, you would go after my answer to your question. Strange people do strange things, thus, you must be strange.[/size]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][color=darkorange][font=Century Gothic]Dem is fightin' words!!! ^L^ Ok, i'll try to make this simple for you. You've over analyzed the question. When i asked the question i didn't imply anything about appearance. And yet you seem so superficial that you cannot overlook appearance in such a simple question. In being dirty you do not necessarily look dirty, you only have the knowledge of your poor hygiene. By being clean you once again don't look clean, you only have the knowledge that you are clean. [i][font=Century Gothic][color=#ff8c00]Would you rather smell good and be dirty or smell bad and be clean?[/i] [/color][/font][color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [color=#000000][/color] [size=2][color=#000000]You are being a little restrictive in your explanation. It says in there 'to be dirty'. Now, to me the verb 'to be' is much more open to interpretation than you make it out to be. In order for your explanation to be truthful, you would have had to rephrase it. "Would you rather smell good and know you are dirty, or smell bad and know you are clean?" Since you did not do this in the first place, or in any of your explanations, I must say that it only seems you are trying to be...difficult.[/color][/size] [color=#000000][/color] [size=2][color=#000000][/color][/size] [QUOTE=The13thMan] As for the smell, you either smell good or bad. In your response you made it seem like the cologne you put on made you smell bad...which is obviously not answsering the question. To smell "good" means that you smell good. Go figure! If you smell good then everybody around you thinks that you smell good. To imply anything other than that would be not to answer my question, instead you'd be answering a shadow of my question and not the real thing. [color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [color=#000000][/color] [size=2][color=#000000]I'm quite enchanted with metaphors, and you will be blessed to receive one. Have you ever smelled something sweet, perhaps a little too sweet, in the air? I have, while driving. As I started to pass something, the smell grew stronger. I looked to my right and saw a garbage truck, and proceeded to gag and force vomit back down my throat. This is an example of a pleasant smell seeming so, but with a look at the source, the effect is far from pleasant. I did indeed answer your question, only I was able to see the entire picture in the smelling good/being dirty duality. You should be able to put at least two pieces together to make a puzzle, I think. If you cannot, I could use a jigsaw and make you a two pieced puzzle you can practice putting together.[/color][/size] [QUOTE=The13thMan] I don't mind unexpected answers at all, as a matter of fact i love them when they show up. But your answer is unexpected and not even an answer for the question i asked. It is simply an answer to a different question that is barely similar to mine. How do i know you didn't answer "my" question? Well it's simple, i found out by your reason behind it, your justification. [color=#000000][/QUOTE][/color] [color=#000000][/color] [size=2][color=#000000]So, if I had simply answered "I would rather smell bad and be clean." without any reasoning or logic to support it, I would have satisfied your conditions for an acceptable answer? You must have been trying to make a joke when you said you liked reason and logic. I get it now! Oh, you are so very clever for going to such lengths to deliver the punch line. I'm sorry I didn't see it earlier.[/color][/size] [QUOTE=The13thMan] I dunno what else to say... i'm a bit preoccupied too. So i'll end on this note. Mustaches are for [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][removed by Moderator][/COLOR] and porn stars. ^J^ [/font][/color][/QUOTE] [size=2]While I am not a porn star publicly, I do have the skill and stamina of one, and a man who likes girls and finds monkey-faced boys with donkey kong haircuts a little revolting would have a hard time being a homosexual.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]In closing, I will leave you with a couple sayings I saw on t-shirts once (no joke).[/size] [size=2]"My moustache brings all the girls to the yard." and[/size] [size=2]"Guns don't kill people, people with moustaches kill people."[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I seriously considered buying both of them.[/size]

[size=2]Well, I'm usually pretty mellow, especially at school. If I've had to put up with a lot of crap lately, or I'm tired, or I'm sick, it's easier to make me angry. One thing that can usually get on my nerves is when someone demonstrates ignorance, stupidity, and confidence all together. It's ok if it happens, and someone can admit their mistake, but when it never stops, I can't help but use an acid tongue. The worst part is that their confidence inspires others to follow their lead. Yeah, I hate stupid people with leadership qualities.[/size]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][color=darkorange][font=Century Gothic]You answered my question and stated your logic being that you'd rather be comfortable than anything else. My response was that comfort was not the point of the question...at all. ^L^ And another thing...i'm often times very comfortable when i'm a little dirty. But that's really irrelevant. I actually really don't appreciate you calling me strange because i know you meant that to be offensive. Just because my logic and reasoning is way above your head doesn't give you the right to get pissed about it. You're the one that doesn't know how to answer a question. To truly answer a question you must understand the intent behind it. Sure, 2+2=2+2 but the math teacher wanted you to get 4 as the answer. Do you get what i'm saying? Hehe, i bet you're angry now. We should fight! ^L^ Later. [/font][/color][/QUOTE] [size=2]Actually, I find it a little difficult to take your implied superiority as offensive. I do become angry when someone pushes my buttons, but you've failed to hit any of them. The feeling you still evince is confusion.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Sometimes the answer you get isn't what you expect, but that doesn't make the answer incorrect. Since you seem to want to make a big deal out of this, perhaps we should examine your question more closely.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]In the first case, you smell good, but you are dirty. Giving off a nice aroma is a good thing, as it may cause people around you, and yourself, to feel pleasant because of it. When you are dirty, it's safe to assume that you look dirty, too. When I'm dirty, I have greasy hair, dirt under my fingernails, and I'm probably wearing work clothes, which don't look too nice at all, as I work somewhere with a lot of oil. I can counteract the smell with a lot of deodorant and possibly some cologne, but I certainly wouldn't be a pretty picture.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]In the second case, you smell bad, but you are clean. The bad smell could be the result of being sprayed by a skunk or something, as such smells are difficult to remove, even with lots of cleaning. If I'm clean, I'll have nice clothes on, not dirty anywhere, and except for my own smell, I wouldn't be a terrible sight to behold. People might smell me and be grossed out, but I truly think they'd be more adversely affected by my dirty appearance and heavy cologne.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]In the second case, I've done everything I can to rid myself of the smell, and I feel clean. In the first case, I've really let myself go, I feel like crap, and people will look at me and see a piece of crap.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If this doesn't satisfy you, then please, give me an in depth explanation of your question, its aims, and why only certain responses are acceptable.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Hmm, a fight isn't quite a fight without fightin' words. Let's see...[/size] [size=2]Despite what you or anyone else thinks about your new haircut, I think it looks really stupid. Will that suffice?[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2][/size]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][color=darkorange][font=Century Gothic]My question had nothing to do with comfort. I really hate it when people add new dimensions to my question...doing so avoids the question completely. All i know now from that response is that you don't like being uncomfortable. ^L^ [/font][/color][/QUOTE] [quote name='The13thMan][font=Century Gothic][color=#ff8c00']Would you rather smell good and be dirty or smell bad and be clean?[/quote][/color][/font] [font=Century Gothic][color=#ff8c00][/color][/font] [size=2][color=black]So, let me get this straight. You asked a question, and I answered, giving it a reason. This somehow makes it so I...avoided the question? What you should have garnered from my response is that I would rather smell bad and be clean.[/color][/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If you don't mind me saying, you are a strange, strange little man.[/size]

[size=2]Well, my beliefs still stand strong, but I thought of something you may find interesting. In this case, I'm going to ignore the possibility of a higher being.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Before life existed, there was matter, space, time, and energy. All things that happened were a result of they physicality of these things, and existence consisted of a series of reactions. These reactions eventually lead to life, and to humans. We have a will to change things. Our actions no longer consist entirely of physical reactions. We can take action for any reason we choose, and with us comes the end of the physical destinies of all things. We are the destroyers of fate, isolated in our own pocket of the universe, while the rest of existence continues its destined, fated path.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]OR[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Our every thought, feeling, idea, and decision has a physical manifestation. We are incredibly complex, but still creatures of matter, occupying space, guided by time, and subject to transformation into energy. Despite our overwhelming complexity, we are still bound by physicality. Our every action truly is a reaction, only infinitely more complex. Our fate and destiny were decided at the beginning of time, and we will continue along our destined path until time's end. Every choice we make is bound to this, even the realization that we have no choice in anything is just another step that we were destined to take. Changing our decisions as randomly and with as much insanity as possible still leads us to make some decision, and it is that decision we were always meant to make.[/size]

[size=2]Let us embark on a spectacular journey into the depths of inhumanity and darkest evil. The object of this thread is to introduce terrible things that have happened over the course of history, or are happening. I'd like to raise awareness of just how despicable we can be. Please, make sure your terrible things are true. Sources are good, and try to keep your introductory descriptions as truthful as possible.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I hope we can have many meaningful discussions, and I hope that nothing like what we're about to share ever happens again (or stops happening).[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]With that, I give you the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study"][b]Tuskegee Experiments[/b][/url].[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]In 1932, poor, black men were diagnosed with syphilis. Initially there were many men who were diagnosed, and the treatments available were administered. However, money for that program ran out, and a new program was created from the old. 400 of the men with syphilis were denied treatment (given placebos), so that the conductors of the experiment could study their corpses after their inevitable deaths. The purpose was to see if black people experience and die from the effects of syphilis different from white people. For 40 years, until 1972, the men were monitored and denied any form of treatment. When some were drafted into the army, they were found to have syphilis, and the army required for those men to be treated. The men conducting the experiment convinced the army to deny treatment, and considered it a great victory for science. Even when antibiotics, effective against the disease, were discovered and used to treat it, the 'patients' were denied it. The study required corpses.[/size]

[size=2]I don't so much know how to put pictures on the internet, or I'm too lazy to do so, but I'll describe myself as best as I can.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I have a moustache![/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If you want a general approximation of me, I'll give one by comparison to DeathKnight.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I look sorta like DeathKnight, but I have bigger eyes, smaller lips and nose, and a smaller head. The hair is sort of the same, but mine is much thicker and fuller. Also, my chin and jawline are less pronounced. And of course, we can't forget the moustache. The big eyes are mostly the result of my thick glasses (my eyes is sorta bad), but also because DeathKnight's eyes are more squinty than mine. If someone gives me a little walkthrough, I'll post a picture, and you can decide whether or not I gave a good description.[/size]

[size=2]I am sick and tired of ignorance. The physical rules that we experience are on a very large level. What we feel and see are averages, because our unaided bodies cannot perceive the inner workings and rules of physics.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I gave a link to a book written by a physicist in an earlier post. He explains things proven by physics in such a way that anyone our age can understand it. If you want to call me on it, you'll have to disprove me, because I've provided a reference.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]It has been physically proven that anything can cease to exist at any time. If anything ever does, it usually does so in such a small way that nobody perceives it, but it happens. Since we're dealing with a hypothetical tree, it is subject to all proven laws of physics and possibilities. If it is possible for the tree to cease to exist before it makes a sound from falling (and it is), then that is a possible outcome. Since there is even one possible outcome that results in the tree making no sound, there is no correct yes or no answer to the question.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If you think you know better than me on this, you don't. Give it up, and stop it with your high and mighty incensive comments.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]The answer to the question is, "I don't know."[/size] [size=2]Oh, I'm sorry, there's another answer to the question that is correct. "Probably."[/size]

[size=2]Bleh, all this bantering is a little exhaustive. I think I'll go off on my own line of thinking here. It never hurts to ask the question again.[/size] [size=2]"If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"[/size] [size=2]I'm going to follow the nature of the question, rather than the letter. I believe who ever came up with this question intended 'sound' to mean 'something somebody hears'. Now, without getting into all the physics, I find myself a little stumped.[/size] [size=2]I'll look at it this way. This question doesn't say anything about nobody being around to [i]see[/i] the tree falling, so I'm going to place a theoretical deaf person, Jenna, at the scene. She's about 5'8", with flowing brown hair, big, beautiful dark eyes, soft, unblemished skin, and curves in all the right places with all the right proportions. She's wearing a seductively clingy red dress that is just decent enough to leave something to the imagination. Suddenly, something catches her eye, and she twists her head to look at it. A tall tree begins leaning to one side, and slowly falls to the ground, scattering leaves and branches. She feels the vibration lightly through the soles of her slippered feet, and a slight gust of wind causes her hair to flow, and her dress to ripple before it settles down. All of this passes in complete silence. She strides gracefully back to her camp, and signs to her translator, Juan, what happened. Juan signs that he didn't hear anything, and with a touch of hope, asks Jenna if she heard a sound. Jenna signs a question back to him. "What is sound?"[/size] [size=2]Jenna was born deaf, and her perspective is just as valid as anyone else's. To her, there is no such thing as sound. If we step into her shoes and ask the question again: "If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" we can answer, "No, there is no such thing as sound."[/size] [size=2]That's one example from one perspective that tells us a tree falling in the woods right in front of someone can make no sound at all; not even the smallest, slightest noise in a world of complete and utter silence.[/size]

[size=2]Sure, sex usually doesn't involve only intercourse, but that doesn't make everything but intercourse sex. There are many different things one can do before, during, or after sex that aren't 'pluggin' and 'plowin', and while they may be part of the act of making love, sex itself has a pretty simple definition. If you do everything but have sex, then you haven't had sex. You can't call yourself anything but a virgin lacking that single, definable experience.[/size]

[size=2]Since we are dealing with a hypothetical situation and asking for a single answer, we must consider all physical possibilities, however unlikely they may be. A tree ceasing to exist immediately after falling is one of those possibilities. All the matter in the universe ceasing to exist just before the tree hits the ground is another possibility.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If a tree falls in the woods, and noone is around to hear it, does it make a sound?[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]It's possible for everything surrounding the tree to vibrate at such a frequency that all vibrations caused by the tree hitting the ground are 'cancelled out'. If an egg rolls off a counter and shatters on the floor, is it also possible for a broken egg on the floor to coalesce and fall up to the counter in one piece? Yes. Everything that can be done can be undone. That's how the real world has been proven to work.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If you'd like to learn more, there is an interesting book I poked through that explains the less visible principles of physics in such a way that laymen like us can understand. Here's a [url="http://www.booksamillion.com/ncom/books?id=3577188720963&isbn=0375727205"]link[/url].[/size]

[size=2]I do have a way I wish sex could be perceived, ideally, but you know as well as I do that I can't [i]make[/i] anyone see it my way. I made the observation that someone reading our sex thread could walk away from it with very little knowledge about sex itself. In essence, this thread is a reflection of all those terrble movies that give us only vague or incorrect information about sex. Mind you, I like this thread, and while I view it as a reflection, I find it interesting and informative at the same time. The reflection I see is only visible if you read between the lines.[/size] [size=2]As for insinuating that people don't see sex as clean and natural, I'll admit that I made an assumption. An honest mistake, but certainly without dire consequences. So, I'll pose a question.[/size] [size=2]Do you feel the same way about writing or talking about sex as I do? That it is somehow dirty and bad to spell it out? Must we cover it up with spoiler tags to hide our shame, or to protect the young from something bad?[/size] [size=2]If so, we can try to identify where in our learning about sex we developed this paradigm. If you do feel that sex is clean, natural, and appropriate, perhaps you could share how you learned about it, so we can better understand what the difference is between us?[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]EDIT: I see the reason for your spoiler tags, and why they are appropriate. We don't want any of our young friends being kept away from this forum on our account. Ideally, though, I wish we didn't have to.[/size]

[size=2]Well, that was very succinct and informative, and I commend you. I was thinking of something going into more detail (recalls encyclopedia), but for anyone who knows the right words for their wee-wee or hoo-hah, that will do the trick. Well, it was blacked out, so maybe half of a hypothetical candy bar. Enjoy it, it's satisfying, but it won't leave you feeling completely filled.[/size]

[size=2]I don't believe in fate or destiny, but I do believe in blessings. Enough good things have happened to me, without my reaching for them, that I consider them blessings. If I see blessings as a reward for my being good, then it makes me see myself as good, which helps me to improve my own nature. I believe these blessings come from God, but you may see it as a series of fortunate events, if you wish. However, anything bad that happens to me is either a result of my own misdeeds, or a result of random chance.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]My view allows for self-improvement in good circumstances, and allows me to accept responsibility (or unpredictability) for bad circumstances. That doesn't make it any better or worse than anyone else's, but it may make it more beneficial and useful to me, personally.[/size]

[size=2]I apologize for the goading comment, but my observation still stands, and is relevant to our discussion of how people learn about sex.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I could write it all down, every natural, physical detail, but I won't. To write it out would make me feel as if I were writing a filthy story. The 'proper' way to talk about sex is to invoke higher emotions and ideals, while avoiding discussion of the act itself.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Is this the way I [i]should[/i] feel about writing such things? If no, then why do I feel this way? How do [i]you[/i] feel about it? What do you think? I think most, if not all sexual problems stem from how society views sex. Where did our society get this view? I can only guess, but it may be a result of ascetic principles derived from certain religious worldviews. The idea that if something is pleasurable, it is evil, is a ridiculous reason to condemn sex. Sure, some pleasurable things are evil, if the pleasure gained is a result of hurting other people.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Again, you may ignore my earlier statement, but the first step to making people see sex as something clean and natural is to treat it as such yourself.[/size]

[size=2]Physical improbabilities are not impossibilities. It is physically possible for a single atom to spontaneously cease to exist. The chance of this happening is infinitely small, but non-zero. It is also possible, but even more infinitely unlikely, that an entire tree, one moment after falling down in the woods, will cease to exist, thus making no crashing noise.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If you are going to invoke physics, you must understand that all the rules we know apply on a large scale 99.9999etc....% of the time. Even with your recording device, and a machine that causes the tree to fall near enough to the device to be recorded, it is possible that no sound will be recorded. The only thing we can be certain of is that nothing is certain.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]The only way to be absolutely, 100% certain about the answer to this question is to qualify it.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]"If a tree falls down in the woods, and nobody's around to hear it, but I have a device that records sound, and the device records a sound that came from the tree falling, did the tree falling make a sound?"[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Never be certain of anything, never assume your assumptions will always be right. Ask yourself the question again, and answer differently.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]"I don't know that it makes a sound, but I sincerely hope and believe that it does."[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If you have a need to claim knowledge of things unknowable, then I've got a club you can join. It's the, "I don't know, but I don't know I don't know" club. I've been to some of their meetings, and I've always walked away feeling like I never should have been there.[/size]

[size=2]I find it interesting that in a thread about sex, if anyone who didn't know what sex was were to read this thread, he/she would come away almost empty-handed, knowledge wise.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]If you really think you're comfortable with sex, spell it out. I dare you. A hypothetical candy bar to the first person to write down the details.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]The lack of information in this thread speaks volumes about how we view sex.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]As for me, I saw a movie once. No, it's not what you think. In the movie, a man and a woman were kissing. The sex scene was skipped, and immediately following the kiss, there was a neat scene of sperm swimming through some unrecognizable pinkish-reddish inner surface of the body, finding and entering the egg. Boom, lady was pregnant. Boom, baby was born. At that point, I [i]knew[/i] that women got pregnant from kissing men. I didn't know what sex was, but that movie made the picture crystal clear. I apparently told my mom about this, or brought it up in conversation (I was a little fella), and she wasn't happy with me having that incorrect information and spreading it.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Her solution was to tell me to look up sex in the dictionary, and I found what some brave soul will hopefully put down onto this page for those who want/need to hear it to know.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]I am, by nature, a follower of rules. I wasn't brought up a Christian, but the whole 'sex is bad' thing caught on. I had no qualms about sex before marriage, but I was personally strict on the whole "You have to be 18 before you can legally have sex." thing. It was the law, and I follow the law (except when driving 5 miles over the speed limit).[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]So, I turned 18, still a virgin, and later that year, I fell in love with a girl. I finally did what I was waiting to do for about 8 years. She and I were virgins, and we'll both be the only partner the other has ever had. We both love each other very much. That is, to me, an ideal relationship, and I feel very blessed that I am in one. As for details, I respect her enough to keep what ought to be private, private. I can dole out a little advice though.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]No matter how many millions of hours of porn you've seen, no matter how many dirty books you've read, you are not a porn star. Sex will be awkward and strange, and it will take time and practice to unlearn everything you thought sex should be. Oh, lord, it will be definitely be fun, if you're with someone who is either as inexperienced as you, or is willing to help you become a better lover. With time, though, it's great. Hopefully, sex will become a part of your life, and hopefully, it will be a good part. In the end, though, that's all that it becomes; a personal, enjoyable part of your life that you share with someone else. With the mystery gone, it becomes a natural part of you, and despite all the misinformation forced upon us when we're young, the truth of it will never change. I sincerely hope each and every one of you develops into a man or woman who is comfortable and responsible enough with sex to enjoy it.[/size]

[size=2]Well, I have two memorable barfing experiences, one of them my worst, and the other my most interesting. First, the most interesting.[/size] [size=2]We have relatives up in Cadillac (michigan), and sometimes we go camping up there. I got sick, somehow, and I ate a bunch of brownies. I had to puke, so I went to the bathroom, but couldn't hold it in before I could get the lid up. So, I puked all over the lid. Unsurprisingly, it looked like brownie mix, and probably enough to make a whole 'nother batch. I wouldn't have suggested it, though, because it still smelled (and tasted) like puke to me. I don't know who cleaned it up, but I feel kinda bad for Great Aunt Char (pronounced Shar, I think it's short for somethin' else).[/size] [size=2]Now, for the worst. When I was young (under 10?), we were staying at a cabin somewhere with my family and grandparents, and we went out to eat, and I ate a TON of shrimp. They were really good, and when we got back to the cabin, we got some Schwan's (sp?) Ice cream. After eating, I went to bed. Some time later, I woke up with an unbearably painful headache and a need to vomit. So, I got up, and in one of the most painful experiences in my life, vomited up my insides into the toilet, which made my already unbearable headache double in magnitude. After I thought I was done, I went back to bed and lied down, exhausted, crying, and still in a lot of pain. Repeat that about twice, and I think I finally woke my parents up. I don't know how or when, but I ended up in the hospital. The last thing I remember about the experience was a doctor saying, "It's ok, it happens sometimes." trying to comfort me about something. I pooped on the hospital bed, and I was so miserable and in pain that I didn't even notice.[/size] [size=2]From then on, I never liked shrimp again, but there's a twist to this story![/size] [size=2]It was the [url="http://www.foodcontamination.ca/fsnet/1996/5-1996/fs-05-16-96-01.txt"][color=black][b]Ice Cream[/b][/color][/url][color=black].[/color][/size] [size=2]I got so sick I almost died, but I was too tough. Since it apparently happened in 1994, I must have been about 8. Other members of my family got a little sick, but none as bad as me. I didn't find out it was the ice cream until much later, so the damage was done. I still hate shrimp, and I still like ice cream.[/size]