Retribution

[size=1]I have a hard time believing a true friend would treat you like that. If the story is as you say it, then there's really nothing you can do to restore it, considering you did nothing to destroy it. I would suggest confronting him about his behavior and just talking about how you feel.[/size]

[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=Teal']I?m talking on a psychological level here not physical. If people really couldn?t stop being human or humane then murders and killing wouldn?t happen. But mankind is full of flaws like greed, apathy and an unwillingness to accept that they are flawed and they destroy other things in response. It?s like a disease without a cure, for the more extreme cases. We can isolate it and put the people in little cells to keep them from ever doing it again, but it doesn?t stop people from being that way.[/COLOR][/quote] [size=1]You said it yourself, that mankind is full of flaws, and one of these is the ability to murder. Therefore Hussein was a flawed human. You also admit the efficacy of jailing him, yet you also look positively upon the use of capital punishment. I can only assume that this is vengeance, if punishment and isolation and be dealt with prison and you still support his execution. [QUOTE][COLOR=Teal]I disagree with you on this because there are people who have become so conditioned to doing horrible things that they see nothing wrong with it and if you really do believe in dignity and respect it?s something they no longer have, even towards themselves. And even that concept is something we came up with, it?s not a fact it?s a way of thinking or a principle that we want to believe because we can then excuse horrible behavior and simply turn our backs once they are locked away. And for the most part that?s just fine.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]I think a right to dignity is an inherent component of being human. It's not an excuse to lock him up; it's easier on the conscience to just kill him, I must admit, he's a despicable person. It's easier to give in and execute him rather than jail him, because humans can be extremely vengeful creatures. [QUOTE][COLOR=Teal]Honestly Retribution, killing Saddam doesn?t even come close to being like Hammurabi?s Code.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]An eye for an eye is basically what we have here in 2007, and that's what they had during Hammurabi's time. Look how far we've come! [QUOTE][COLOR=Teal]Our system of giving people a trial is a far cry from how easy that code would have allowed someone to be accused and then put to death. It?s so far out of whack that it?s not even a valid example as we are a very long way from being in that state.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]Do note that Saddam's trial was probably not fair. That's not to say that he didn't do what he was accused of, but the entire proceedings could very well have been compromised to get him executed faster (as it's my understanding those 70 years old and above can't be executed in Iraq, and he was 69. I might be wrong, though). [QUOTE][COLOR=Teal]The fact that so many countries and states are doing away with the Death Penalty shows that we are going forward and not backwards in that respect. I said I felt he deserved it not that he actually should be put to death.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] But I think Saddam's execution [i]does[/i] mark a step backwards if we are to follow your logic (which I do agree with). [QUOTE][COLOR=Teal]Of course! :p I?m not going to automatically assume they?ve done so without some form of proof. I?m sure they have, but as I said, to my knowledge they have not. Though I?m sure someone could prove me wrong on that.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] Always be skeptical of your government. Never give them the benefit of the doubt.[/size]

[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=Teal']Technically no one can ever cease to be a human, but I think on a psychological level they can. At what point do we keep pretending that someone who is a mass murderer even is human in that respect?[/COLOR][/quote][size=1]If they cannot cease to be human, then they are entitled to human dignity and respect, no matter how deplorable they are. I don't believe you can stop being human because you killed people. [QUOTE][COLOR=Teal]I hear the same argument about how life is precious from people and that we have no right to take it and yet in extreme cases they act as if we will be barbaric if we execute those who truly have committed terrible crimes. But there are those who have long since crossed the line of respecting human life and have been the cause of killing many people like Saddam did. At that point they no longer deserve any respect from others. They have become monsters who appear to be human. And if they have reached that point, on some level I think they deserve the Death Penalty.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]In a sense, you are barbaric if you kill someone. By killing a killer, the state tells the citizens implicitly that killing is justified. By killing a killer, you're stopping violence with more violence. By killing a killer, you are in a sense taking a step thousands of years backward to Hammurabi's Code. [QUOTE][COLOR=Teal]I'm not talking about torture for the simple reason I can't think of a single reason where someone would deserve it.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]How convenient. I can't think of a single reason where someone would deserve capital punishment. [QUOTE][COLOR=Teal]And I don't think it really applies since we have never, to my knowledge, tortured someone before they were imprisoned or executed.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]lol, I think you trust the government too much.[/size]

[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=Teal']I don't agree with the Death Penalty, but at the same time when it's applied to someone who is a mass murderer, at that point I'm thinking they deserved it.[/COLOR][/quote] [size=1]Does a person cease being human solely because he's a mass murderer? If he's a mass murderer, does that give you the right to discriminate his case from just a "normal" killer? At what point does that line blur? And if you say killing a mass murderer is alright because he "deserves it," would you support torturing him because he deserves it"?[/size]

[quote name='The Boss][color=darkred][size=1]And yet Bush in his infinite knowledge still doesn't think 'the job is done'. And I do remember some years ago him saying so proudly "Mission Accomplished" after such a dramatic entrance.[/color'][/size][/quote] [IMG]http://www.phillyist.com/attachments/philly_nicole/mission-accomplished.jpg[/IMG] [size=1]I think that picture on the White House website has the banner cropped out.[/size]

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=DarkRed']Then in that case your post doesn't really apply to me since I was opposed to it from the very beginning.[/COLOR][/quote] [size=1]Precisely. [QUOTE][COLOR=DarkRed]Also, lets not act like being pro-Iraqi invasion would have made a difference. It won't be the first time poor decisions have been made, regardless of whether or not the public approved. My point was that though Bush may have had support, there were plenty of people who didn't want him for a president to begin with.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] Bush wouldn't have invaded had the current public approval been below 50%. He invaded to raise his approval (IMO), so wouldn't such an action be self-defeating? The decision was made based off the fact everyone was pissed because we couldn't find Osama, and Bush didn't want people mad at him. So what does he do? Crucifies some other Middle Eastern country.[/size]

[size=1]Just to let you know, these types of requests rarely get taken up due to their difficulty. Asking someone to draw something so complex is quite a bit to ask.[/size]

[QUOTE=indifference][COLOR=DarkRed]Correct me if I'm wrong, but just which American people are you referring to? Because last time I checked, the regular American was not given a say as to whether or not our leaders chose to go to war. Because if that were the case, I'd be voting no on a regular basis. The only ones lacking reluctance are those fools in charge, which by the way I did not vote for. I know you don't mean it that way Retribution, but not all Americans are eager for those senseless wars Bush and others are so fond of. And nearly half of the counted popular votes when the last election was held were not for Bush either. And I would think the recent elections giving the Democrats more power in the Senate would show that the rest of America is equally as tired of the mess created by those in charge. [/COLOR][/QUOTE] [size=1]If the American people had expressed genuine outrage when Bush decided to go to Iraq, I don't think he would have. I mean, the public approval rating for the invasion was definitely above 50% when he did it. If it the invasion had the 35% approval rating he has now, he might have thought twice about it. But instead, everyone was gung-ho about kicking some international ***. Sure, there were people who knew Iraq was a bad idea from the get-go, and I'm not talking to them. But let's not act like the pro-Iraqi invasion folks were a minority in 2003. The American people play a significant role in government. [i]They[/i] represent [i]us[/i], and they lose their jobs if they piss us off. Isn't that great power?[/size]

[size=1]A ninja, hands down. A samurai is [theoretically] bound to Bushido, and therefore has given the ninja the upper hand, even before the fight has begun. Ninja attack from anywhere and really couldn't care less about the rules of engagement, so a stab to the back before the samurai even knows he's in a remotely dangerous situation is a very possible scenario. And if it came down to an actual duel, ninja have more tricks at their disposal, and could [again, theoretically] poison their blade. A shallow flesh-wound would be fatal.[/size]

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=DarkRed']What makes you think I haven't? My disagreement is more along the lines that it was thrown out there without the consent of the Iraq government.[/COLOR][/quote] [size=1]I never said you hadn't. I was mostly saying that the video being released enabled people to watch what they were wishing so fervently for. [quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=Teal']Making it a requirement to watch what happens when someone is put to death isn't the answer to getting rid of the Death Penalty.[/COLOR][/quote] I never said it was "the" answer. I said it was a means of moving towards the abolition of capital punishment. [QUOTE][COLOR=Teal]If that were true, all the videos and pictures of what happens to people during war would have ended wars a very long time ago. Since those are usually far more violent and people still find reasons to fight and kill others. I doubt that showing executions would really make any difference.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] I think if people (particularly those in America) fully understood the brutality of war, we'd be much more reluctant to go invade other countries. This might have something to do with why Europe isn't too crazy about running off and fighting places. They have been ravaged by war over and over again, so their people have a better grip on what it's actually like. Again, I don't expect it to [i]end[/i] the death penalty just as I wouldn't expect the pictures of war to stop war. I think if people weren't so far removed from the issues, they'd make different choices.[/size]

[QUOTE=The Boss][color=darkred][size=1] And so that they use it with discretion, which should be the same case with the death penalty. I know that part of me would feel a little queesy watching a guy get hung, but the other part of me would also remember the much more awful things that Saddam did to people. Am I alone in this feeling?[/color][/size][/QUOTE] [size=1]No, I think you're right. Except instead of just limiting the use of capital punishment, it might be a means of ending it. But having people understanding what they're asking for is rarely a bad thing.[/size]

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=DarkRed']About the only thing I disagree with is the video on the Internet and even then it was supposedly done by someone acting on their own and not by the government. [/COLOR][/quote] [size=1]Part of me believes that if you support the death penalty, you should watch what you're asking for. Kind of like how cops have to take mace to the eyes before being authorized to use it, just so they know how it feels on a human being.[/size]

[size=1]I bet 100 OtakuBucks [b]Anomaly[/b] gets [b]1st place[/b]. Seriously, is it even a contest?[/size]

[size=1]Love ya, Dagger.[/size]

[size=1]I was trying to add an event to January 2007, but there's no 2007 on the drop down menu. What's up?[/size]

[size=1]I can't see a downside or possible ethical pitfall to the idea, so I support the parent's decision. I must say, it's a pretty shrewd one to make (very outside the box, but effective when you think about it). I would be opposed if her mind had the capacity to mature, but considering she's locked into the mental age of 3 months, a static body can only be positive for her physical well-being.[/size]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']I don't know about it being a good time,[/quote] [size=1]Is my edge really that blunted these days? It was sarcasm. [QUOTE]or that making a martyr out of someone who died for a cause vs. life imprisonment is easier for one than the other. In declaring them a martyr that is.[/QUOTE] Oh, I would definitely argue it's easier to idealize and therefore prop them up to be a martyr if they're dead. There's a greater power to being killed than being imprisoned, in terms of your follower's response. For instance, Dr. King was imprisoned (Letter from a Birmingham Jail, anyone?) but there wasn't really any outrage when compared to when he was assassinated. Yes, there were riots and police-civilian clashes when he was killed. Not when he was imprisoned. [quote]In the end regardless if he is in prison or dead, someone can take that and use it to fire up more violence. There may not have been riots before the hanging, but it's too soon to honestly say if they are going to continue or not. And if they had decided to put him away in a cell for life, people might have started riots over keeping him detained instead of setting him free.[/quote] As far as I could tell, the kettle of Iraq was on simmer when Saddam was imprisoned, and considering the duration of his imprisonment prior to his execution, I'm willing to hazard that there wasn't going to be any sectarian violence or threat of civil war from it. But then he was executed, and all of the sudden things are boiling over.[/size]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']Though I'm sure all the BS that's going to occur as a result won't be much fun. Especially since I don't think it was possible to deal with him without others finding a way to turn him into a martyr. Dead or Alive.[/quote] [size=1]Oh, come now! Fully preventable and reactionary sectarian violence is always a good time. And it's must easier to make a martyr out of a man who supposedly died for a cause as opposed to being captured and imprisoned. I mean, there weren't riots until he was hanged, right?[/size]

[size=1][b]What?[/b] Delta's Signatures [b]Why?[/b] Honestly, they're the sexiest things on OB since... a while. They always look absolutely stunning, unparalleled in beauty, and reflect her uniqueness and skill as a graphic designer. [b]What?[/b] Boo [b]Why?[/b] This guy's sense of humor is refreshingly original and blunt, and if you've ever chatted with him on AIM or MSN, you'd know that his [strike]Dutch[/strike] nonsensical antics and funny ideas (chain letter, anyone? ;D) are equally entertaining.[/size]

[quote name='Phaedrus']It tell us to run; a fly-or-die response.[/quote] [size=1]I believe the term would be fight-or-flight response, which is in reference more to the sympathetic nervous system. [QUOTE]However, as humans, we must conquer our fears. Fear is related to a more primitive aspect of our minds, and as the eras go by we are getting deeper and deeper into our minds and its potentialities. We must, therefore, approach the unknown and not let the fear get the best of us. At this point, running away means our extinction, and the probability of continual extistence of mankind is at greater chance if we approach that which is unknown and seek to understand it best we can. We must objectify fear itself, so that it is no stigma upon our progression and growth. Fear is, more or less, an outdated system of survival which we long ago have outstretched, and which we have yet to permanetly outstretch.[/QUOTE] And there's where your post faded into irrelevancy. Again, I urge you all to understand that fear is often a learned and conditioned response. True, we fear on a primal and instinctual level where we don't have to learn, but we can also fear things as simple as a fuzzy white purse, simply due to our previous experience.[/size]

[QUOTE=Engel][color=darkslategray][size=1]The question you have to ask yourself is this: What happened, deep in the hidden eras before history began, that could effect the entire human race so evenly as to give the entire species a deep, instinctual, and lasting fear of pale beings with dark, sunken eyes, razor sharp teeth, and elongated faces?[/size][/color][/QUOTE] [size=1]A fear is not inherent. It's conditioned into us. If a baby were to have only positive and happy experiences with creatures having sharp teeth and pale skin, they would be conditioned to believe that things fitting that schema would be similarly pleasant. Basically, we associate the creature you mention with fear/danger because of our previous experience with that creature.[/size]

[size=1]Depression would grip me. I would sit at home, perhaps in solitude just thinking about the inevitable. And maybe hazard a half-assed attempt at conversion out of fear. Who wouldn't?[/size]

[size=1]I just remembered that Johnny Cash covered Hurt by Nine Inch Nails and did an amazing job. Did he do a cover of the entire album, on just that song? I must admit, it was quite an odd combination, but it was executed pretty well.[/size]

[size=1]I happened upon John Mayer's cover of Radiohead's Kid A (the song, not the album) which ended up being excellent. I also like Kid Beyond's cover of Portishead's Wandering Star.[/size]

[quote name='taperson']"I Wish I Were Your Derivative So I Could Lie Tangent To Your Curves!"[/quote] [size=1]I love that one. If I were an enzyme I would be DNA helicase so I could unzip your genes. Bam![/size]