Retribution

[size=1]It's not a huge deal, but if you could read the [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/rules.php][b]Official OtakuBoards Rules[/b][/url] to understand what is expected of you as far as post quality goes? I mean in terms of capitalization and punctuation. That, and there's no need to tell us that you're going to post more stuff later. If anything, it just makes things more difficult to post it up once you're done if no one else has posted since. Know what I mean? :p[/size]

[size=1]For some reason, I didn't see this thread for quite a while. I'm going to move it to the [B]Suggestions & Feedback[/B] forum, even though the issue is result for clarity's sake.[/size]

[quote name='Transtic Nerve']Does anyone here really even know any old OB memebers?[/quote][size=1]Yes, Mr. Conceited. Some of us [i]do[/i] in fact know old members. [b]Name:[/b] Juuthena [b]Profile:[/b] [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/member.php?u=2727]Click here.[/url] [b]Last seen:[/b] N/A [b]Why?[/b] Because disappearing without a word or trace really sucks for (well, I thought anyway) a close friend of hers. I really enjoyed my one collaboration with her, and on top of that she was a great photographer. And I'm not gonna lie, I'll say it, she was [url=http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/caloriescankissmybigfatasianteenagedanorexicyogaas/poopy.jpg][b]hot[/b][/url].[/size]

[size=1]Chabi, whether the creation of Israel was fair or not is inconsequential to my point. My point is that Palestine attacked first -- the reason of the attack isn't really too important. If they were being "freedom fighters" to regain their "stolen" lands, that's great. But the fact is that Palestine is always the aggressor in these situations, and when Israel comes back with stronger weaponry and a better equipped military, Palestine complains and cries about how evil and mean Israel is. The 1967 war is the perfect example.[/size]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']I do agree that people from both sides commit crimes against the other, but I believe Israel should be a bit more responsible and set a better example since it is the much stronger side. Law and order can't be established on the palestinian side if everything there is always being destroyed. If Israel at least stops destroying what little the palestinians have, a sense of calm and organization can return to the region. If stability rerturns to the reqion, maybe a plasetinian forces can have an easier time in stopping militants from boming settlements, which seems like an ongoing problem that the population can't seem to control. The palestinian government isn't behind these bombings anymore.[/COLOR][/quote] [size=1]Chabi, Palestine is ultimately the aggressor in this situation. Israel was founded, and no one in the Middle East liked that, so they decided to attack Israel. It's been like that for a long, long time. Israel rarely attacks another country without prior provocation; after all, it's the other countries that have animosity towards Israel in the first place. Honestly, Israel has been desiring peace for quite a while. They conceeded their settlements to appease the Palestinians last summer, and they were talking of peace. And just when we think that the two will finally be harmonious (Arafat dying I mean), we're back to square one.[/size]

[size=1]I personally loved it. In part because I'm one of the characters in it, but the other part is that the jokes were just hilarious. Sure, things (perhaps more description of what is going on) could've been a bit better, but I'm sure you'll pick up the hilarity/quality in the next chapter. Keep up the good work![/size]

[size=1]When I was [b]Altron[/b], I was pretty much a newbie here. I posted mostly in the Battlegrounds and gave a few stabs at posting elsewhere, but that didn't work very well until I left and came back about six months later. I didn't really want a name change for a milestone in my internet development/maturity, I just thought it sounded cooler. It ended up being a rather large change, though. When I became [b]Retribution[/b], I think my posting quality got much better and I started devoting more time to the graphic arts. I also started branching out and talking to people on AIM/MSN. I became a moderator too... go figure. I'm guessing I'll stop coming to OB once I'm in college and don't have much time for anything else aside from my studies. Hopefully I won't completely disappear, though.[/size]

[quote name='Cygnus X-1][COLOR=Sienna']Depends on how you define faith; to me, faith is when you believe in something that flys in the face of logic and evidence. Therefore I wouldn't call it 'faith.'[/COLOR][/quote] [size=1]You believe that there is no God, but you don't have any evidence to disprove the existance of a higher power. Christians believe that there is an invisible God, yet they don't have any physical proof either (well, that Jesus guy, but we'll exclude him to stop all other sorts of debate). If both sides have no proof, both are placing faith in the fact that they're right. You fervently believe "If I can't see it, it doesn't exist" whereas Christians say "I can't see it, but I have faith it's there" (yes, they're oversimplified arguments, deal with it). No one has an upper-hand in this mindlessly circular debate. It's why I'm an Agnostic. There's just no conclusive evidence for one side or the other. Instead, I try to live my life well and help my fellow man. I think that's all Christ would've wanted anyway.[/size]

[quote name='Cygnus X-1][COLOR=Sienna']I don't see how it was a metaphore. If it WAS a metaphore, I don't understand why it would be a metaphore - Why would one of the many authors say something occured in 6 days (i.e six cycles of the sun.) when it in fact occured in 6 billion years? I mean, that just plain doesn't make sense.[/COLOR][/quote] [size=1]Alright, metaphor wasn't the correct term. I guess I mean that the authors said that it occured in seven 'God days' which represents something much greater than we can fathom. Imagine being some poor old peasant who has trouble counting the number of rows you've plowed in a day, and now you're being told that some higher power created everything in this vast, immeasurable span of time. I'm just saying there might be a reason why the word 'day' was picked.[/size]

[quote name='Tical]Yes, it could. But if your willing to admit the bible could be paraphrsed in parts, yo uare willing to admit it could [I]all[/I'] be paraphrased. And in such a case, there is no way of knowing what the hell it all means.[/quote] [size=1]I think you meant parable? Or maybe you meant that a parable was a paraphrased version of the original happening? I guess that part doesn't matter much anyway. I still think that despite all the translations, editing, etc, the Bible's (or more properly, the Synoptic Gospels if we're talking Christianity) message remains intact. The basic premise to love thy neighbor, to turn the other cheek, and to do onto others as you would have them do unto you is still there. You can definitely determine what "love thy neighbor" means, lol. I mean, c'mon, blanketing the entire Bible with such a statement is rather blind. I find it funny that an Agnostic is defending Christianity.[/size]

[size=1]What's preventing a sophisticated society from articulating something in the form of a metaphor? Jesus spoke in parables to let peasants understand his revolutionary message, could this not be the same? And, inevitably, the other half of this is [i][b]faith[/b][/i]. There is no conclusive evidence for the existance of a God, however, Christians find comfort in the Bible. While it isn't a loudspeaker straight from God to us humans, it is as close as humans will ever get.[/size]

[size=1]First of all, [B]both sides need to cool down before the thread is closed.[/B] To the Atheists, all the religious ask for is respect. To the religious, please respect the Atheistic view that there is no God. I think the problem is that Atheists become antagonistic and believe that faith is completely foolish, which is rude and inconsiderate. [quote name='Cygnus X-1][COLOR=Sienna']And I don't buy into the "God has a different sense of time." theory either. Why? Because when the book was writtnr there was no concept of being any other time - the primitive peoples of the Mid East who wrote (And often plagerised) the scriptures which would later be assembled by the Romans into the Bible had no concept of other kinds of time. They didn't have time zones or the same AM-PM system we do, they judged time by where the Sun was in the sky, and it would have never occured to them that there was any other way of telling time.[/COLOR][/quote] I suppose that it's easy to trivialize the accomplishments of the Middle Eastern peoples. While Europe was just a mass of dirt, the Middle East was progressing in the fields of math, science, medicine, architecture, etc. In addition, the Bible is rather eloquent. My point is: do you think that such a collection of books could be written by some primitive savage? Do you think that such eloquence would belong to such a person? No. And if the answer is no, do you think that such an eloquent author (or group of them) would be able to comprehend the concept of "time"? Of course. And if they can comprehend the concept of time, it isn't too huge an assumption to say that they could fathom manipulations of it, just as we're doing now. I grow weary of all the attempts to refute the Bible. If you see it as a dusty book that should belong in the fiction aisle, that's great. All debates of religious nature dead-end due to the fact that one side is rooted in the unseeable and the other side demands physical proof (and they don't buy the whole Jesus bit).[/size]

[size=1]First, I'd like to give you a pat on the back for correcting me and not blasting me. Debates are always more fun with the friendly crowd. [quote name='Fasteriskhead]You say: "We [i]do[/i] react to the different, we just react in a more civilized manner." By "more civilized" you mean moreso than the loudmouth bible thumpers. Definitely. I gave a cold shoulder to these folks in my previous post, as you may have noticed. But: "we [i]do[/i'] react to the different"? Are you so sure? I'm not.[/quote] We definitely react to the different. To continue my previous analogy, when my friend says that he/she is gay, I go through several phases. The first is shock. The second is a feeling of uneasiness. The third is the taming of that feeling when I tell myself that we're all human beings and sexual orientation should not be detrimental to our friendship. Everyone reacts differently to a change in their life, but the fact of the matter is [i]we all respond to change.[/i] If someone were to erect a statue of Joey Ramone in their yard and "tolerate" it, many would still raise a brow at first. It would probably take a few weeks of getting used to if you were to choose the route of tolerance simply because it's a change in our lives. All I'm trying to say is that the reaction to change is simply human nature. [QUOTE]This, for me, is exactly the thing that's so difficult. What do we consider the best response to a friend admitting to us that they're gay, or switching to Buddhism, or (for that matter) painting their house hot pink? We "accept" it and continue the friendship. But you have to see the danger in this: by tolerating their homosexuality and then continuing on as normal, aren't we basically [i]trivializing[/i] that homosexuality? (And don't misunderstand me as saying that I think that, when this happens, we should approach our friends afterwards as if they had a gigantic "GAY" flag hanging off of them)[/QUOTE] Trivializing? Not exactly. We are acknowledging that difference and continuing to regard that person as a human worthy of respect. I accept others despite their ethnic backgrounds... does this trivialize these ethnic backgrounds if I don't care if my friends are white or black? Yes? No? It really doesn't matter. The point is that I take the differences of others (unless it's something ridiculous like being racist), accept them, and let it be a part of my life. I guess I'm just trying to say that I disagree with the word 'trivialize.' It makes it sound like it obliterates differences when I accept them, which is certainly not the case. [QUOTE]Here's my worry, if I could sum it up: by merely "tolerating" other religions, sexualities, ethnicities, etc., we just gather them up into acceptance (i.e. resignation) without ever actually confronting what they might mean and what they might say. This is not a question about our thinking that our "culture" is superior, or even that all others are really just the same as ours, it's about not even wondering what the differences [i]are[/i] at their core. If we still react to the different, as you say, I think it's typically to [i]reassure[/i] ourselves that there's really no big difference after all, e.g. that I don't really need to seriously consider my friend in light of his sexuality, and so his being gay is a change that I can handle easily. It's not that we ignore things or that we don't care (apathy), it's that we accept them as if they had no weight.[/QUOTE] Oh, now we get to what exactly you meant. The basic problem is that our defintions of acceptance were off by miles. I do not mean resignation when I accept someone. I would look at my friend in a different light if they were to tell me they were gay, however this light would not be a negative one. Of course things change when new variables are added into an equation. However, this change doesn't make me dislike them. Yes, what happens in the end is that I reassure myself that we're both human beings and therefore worthy of respect and dignity. I'm not going to lie. If a best friend were to tell me they were gay, I don't think I'd handle it easily. It would be a stunning bit of information, but in the end what's most important is that I don't let that information hurt my friendship. [QUOTE]Now, it would be far worse than a mistake if we were to go back from tolerance into the "stake-burning" that you rightfully criticize - although I suspect a couple of us are going to end up heading that way. But I think mere tolerance is only going to get us so far, and history isn't going to be kind to us if we can't figure out how to get past it. Anyways, sorry about the long posts - I'm worried about being misunderstood on this, although I might as well go ahead and accept being told that I'm talking about how political correctness is bad.[/QUOTE] Well, I think we've resolved this (unless I misunderstood). Blind, point-blank tolerance isn't good. And yeah, I was wondering about that political correctness bit in Cygnus' post. Heh.[/size]

[size=1]I think that the Israeli response is in fact justified. A little over the top? Yes, but so was the Palestinian action. Chabi, you always seem to overlook the Palestinian's faults and focus on the Israeli ones. Please realize that [i]if the Palestinians hadn't gone across the border, killed two soldiers and kidnapped one, this wouldn't be happening.[/i] Granted, I also think that Israel is using this to take out anger on the Palestinians, and that's wrong too. Here's an analogy. Me and another kid hate each other, and we look for excuses to hurt the other. It just so happened that he threw a rock at me today. I know I'm much stronger than him, so I decide to take out all my rage upon him this one time and repay him for all the past pain he has caused. It's sort of like that. Both sides are at fault here, but you must understand that Palestine made the first move and knew what happens when you hit a bee hive with a stick. I also think that Irael would in fact be negotiating with terrorists if they accepted the terms of the soldier's release. It would encourage others to try the same thing later; it just sets a horrible precedent. PS: Israel isn't going to rebuild the infastructure. They took it out on purpose, and I bet it was to spite the Palestinians.[/size]

[quote name='tsukineko']That turned out pretty neat! I enjoyed it very much. Thank you. I wish I knew how to make those. I've been trying to figure it out, but so far no luck. Hope you make more video's soon! :catgirl:[/quote] [size=1]That's a very nice thing to say, tsukineko. However, nice comments don't help people improve. Explaining what you think was "pretty neat" will help the artist know what made it look good for future reference. You should also include something they could improve as well, since nothing is perfect. In addition, please read the [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/rules.php][b]Official OtakuBoards Rules[/b][/url] and the [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=52171][b]Art Studio Rules[/b][/url] to know what is expected of you as far as post quality goes. Thank you for your cooperation, patience, and interest.[/size]

[quote name='Fasteriskhead]By writing all of this am I saying that tolerance is a bad thing? Not necessarily. I don't think it's a stretch to say that we currently live in the most "accepting" period in history - this is a deep improvement, as any minority can tell you. But with all of this tolerance, we seem to have also arrived in a world where very little matters. Human beings live in their own carefully sealed-off territories, only interacting with people who are truly [i]other[/i] in heavily controlled, abstracted, superficial ways. Hence myspace, hence ipods, hence something as simple as how people shop at the grocery store (staring straight ahead, never making eye contact). We no longer try to [i]destroy[/i] what's different, but the price has been that we no longer really react to the different at all. My hope is that my generation (and the generation of most of the folks reading this) will begin to seriously think about this, which has to mean more than just condemning "apathy" from on high. My [I]fear[/I'] is that we won't even catch sight of the problem.[/quote] [size=1]Really, I have no idea what you're talking about. I guess part of the problem is that you seem to carry on for half a page and end up with a conclusion that could've been proven in two paragraph. Anyway, I disagree with you when you say that we as a society are tending towards apathy. In some ways, this is definitely true, however what you're describing (assuming you live in America) is true for only half of the country at tops. I mean, who are you kidding when you say that the southern states tolerance and accept so much that they're becoming apathetic? Furthermore, it's not like northern states are completely detached from everyday life solely because they're more accepting. iPods, MySpace, TV, whatever the hell you want to blame it on is not the problem. We [i]do[/i] react to the different, we just react in a more civilized manner. If one of my friends were to tell me they were gay, I wouldn't burn them at the stake. Instead, I would take them the way they are and continue being their friend. I really don't think that the level of tolerance is at the point where everyone (or even the majority) thinks "If you're not harming me, go ahead and do it." That's why the abortion gay marriage debates are so hot these days. People care what other people are doing, when it's completely clear that it won't harm them in any way aside from personal distaste. Society really isn't so isolated, cold, and detached as you're making it out to be. The way you're sounding, one would thing that we all live in boxes so that we don't have to deal with human interaction. Basically, I think that you're overexaggerating the apathy of today. Sure, it's a problem, but it's not a spiraling nose-dive.[/size]

[size=1]Thanks for the feedback, Boss and Raiyuu. I just rented a copy from my local public library. So far things are interesting, but Gibson's writing feels somewhat thick. I also feel somewhat frustrated that [spoiler]Case probably won't be 'healed' again, which means that there will probably be no cyber-action.[/spoiler] But I'm also absolutely loving the descriptions of Chiba City. I have a feeling this is going to be one of my favorite books.[/size]

[QUOTE=Decadence]And in response to the whole "you speak like a white girl" comment earlier in the thread. Very racist, Very capitalist. Comments like that won't go away until the class system is disbanded. There is no such thing as white talk, black talk, Latino talk. They are accents but attributing them to races is more a mater of where some one lives, which is all a matter of money. Resist, Refuse, Rise up, Revolt![/QUOTE] [size=1]Very racist? Yes. Very capitalist? Huh? I cannot see a clear line between racism and capitalism. Racism is rooted in ignorance. Capitalism, while having flaws, does not foster racism. I would say that racism is a personal vice, one completely independent of capitalism. Disbanding the class system? I see where you're coming from to a certain extent, but I'm also wondering, can it be done. Communism never works -- it slips and falters on the flaws of men, therefore we can't ever completely abolish a class system. The only thing left to do? Go with the next best option, democracy and capitalism. I would definitely argue that it's had a stronger track record than communism. Why completely destroy the democratic system when you can improve it? I would say that democracy and the people within in it are progressing towards universal acceptance and solidarity. Look back fifty years ago. It was unheard of for a white/black couple to exist. Look back one hundred years ago from then. Slavery was being contested. Give things another 100 years and racism will be considered ridiculous by nearly all.[/size]

[size=1]I used to think that babies grew in a mother's stomach. When I asked my mother if this was the case, she immediately crushed that belief and told me that babies developed in the uterus. I wanted to hold onto the easy definition, but she's a stickler for accuracy, what can I say. I also believed that (Caution: the following text is especially shocking.) [spoiler]Santa Claus came to my house on Christmas Eve, and that he ate the cookies children left him. When I thought about it more, I realized if all the kids left him a cookie, he'd have eaten a huge amount of cookies. So that Christmas Eve I left him a banana and a note saying something along the lines of "eat healthier, Santa." Haha. Speaking of Santa Claus, I also thought that he, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and God all lived together in outer-space.[/spoiler] I was also a fervent believer in the "Crime doesn't pay!" slogan. How mistaken I was.[/size]

[QUOTE=Azarath]Those are awesome. You are a great artist. :catgirl:[/QUOTE] [size=1]That's a very nice thing to say, Azarath. However, nice comments don't help people improve. Explaining what you think was "awesome" will help the artist know what made it look good for future reference. You should also include something they could improve as well, since nothing is perfect. In addition, please read the [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/rules.php][b]Official OtakuBoards Rules[/b][/url] and the [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=52171][b]Art Studio Rules[/b][/url] to know what is expected of you as far as post quality goes. Thank you for your cooperation, patience, and interest.[/size]

[size=1]You're definitely getting there, and I can see flashes of greatness in your works. There's two things plaguing you right now. [B]1)[/B] Your text is relatively weak and ends up dragging the piece down with it. You wre getting there with the Balmung banner, keep doing things that way. [B]2)[/B] You lose the stock in the brush-work half the time, which is the most important part. Try defining it a bit more with like an overlay layer for the stock, or just lowering the opacity of the overlapping layers. Two questions for you: [B]1:[/B] How long have you been working with the program you're currently using? [B]2:[/B] Are you using pre-made or self-made brushes?[/size]

[size=1]I was assuming that by the time you ask this person out on a date, you've known them as friends for a while, but perhaps other people operate differently.[/size]

[size=1]True, the analogy is not perfect, but the same unbelieveablity (if that's a word) of it all is almost the same. He certainly didn't just say "Oh, that's nice, but it's probably just a dream" and go along with things. He went into denial, became withdrawn, etc. I'm not really trying to argue with RPers at all -- it's their call how their characters will deal with the given situation. I'm more frustrated with the expectations James handed our characters. He basically said "You've just gotten up from a coma and you realize your family, friends, and past life are all gone. Let's dance!" and it's just unfair to expect us to do so. Sure, you didn't [i]force[/i] us to dance, but the expectation is there, whether you acknowledge it or not, and the expectation is ... ludicrous? I guess it's not too huge a deal, but I guess I thought that an RPG of Kill Adam calibur would begin ... differently. Please pardon me.[/size]

[QUOTE=Sandy]Don't take it too realistically, Retri! My character for one is in a dreamlike condition at this moment, not fully understanding the vastity of the events or the strangeness of all that has happened. Besides, if this was a realistic situation, none of our characters could even move after being in a coma for a few hundred years. ;P Just go with the flow, let the story indulge you![/QUOTE] [size=1]We were in a coma for a decade tops, if I'm not mistaken. I was under the assumption that the events outlined in the Letter occured only a few years after we went into the coma. I was also assuming that we knew of the Second Faction and the threat it posed prior to going into the coma... which is an assumption my character is built off of; having a child after thinking the Second Faction wouldn'ttake over Britain. I also think that this is comparable to when Neo awakens from The Matrix and found out he had been living an illusion. His body clamped up, he vomited, and passed out again. The transition was by no means a painless one.[/size]

[size=1]I'm very sorry James, but the entire ball thing is ridiculous considering our circumstances. We're under great stress (even if RPers aren't showing that well). We just woke up in a completely different country. We have just learned that our nations have been overrun by the Second Facton, and that our friends and family are probably all dead. And you expect us to dance and mingle? I'm sorry, but it's nigh impossible to expect any character to deal with that in such a nonchalant manner. This is also why I've only posted twice -- I thought that flirting, dancing, and socializing really weren't appropriate responses for [i]anyone[/i] considering the catastrophic shock we were just given. I'll be back in the action once you decide to reveal the Supreme Chancellor.[/size]