Zeta

I can't comment on the Hamas, because honestly, I do not have a good bearing on what is going on there. If you could enlighten me, I would gladly put my voice in. >_< It is a known fact that the Empire came to be through the hidden plans of Palpatine. Forgot who said that the Rebellion is evil because of its dealing with operations and similar things in the shadows, hiding basically. But if that causes the Rebellion to be evil, then it only shows that the Empire is evil too since it came about in the same way as the Rebellion, which is what I have been saying. Did the Empire try all they could to get the Rebels to show their face on Alderaan? If they are indeed concerned about the innocents, would they not have tried to give them a chance to surrender? No such chance was given. In a previous post, Kane I think it was, said that the DS was built for the sole purpose of inciting fear into the Rebellion, and into any other type of revolt I am assuming. Had it not been destroyed, and with the Rebellion still going, only more planets would become known to house the Rebels. Which would then lead to the use of the DS again, which is more than a one time use of it. For other uprisings with no bearing on the Rebels themselves, the DS would be brought in, and used if need be. No, the DS was made for more than a one time use, one clearly obvious reason being that the Rebellion would not die with the destruction of Alderaan, thus leading to more bases having to be uncovered and destroyed. I bring in the EU, because Kane and others brought in the EU. So I just assumed it is all right to use for reference. If using the EU is still allowed, here is quite a large action where the Republic does in fact think of the civilians. THe Vong bio-agent, capable of defeating an enemy that has been basically kick their butts since day one. I again ask, do they use it as a quick and easy way to defeat the Vong? No they do not. One major worry among the leaders was the overall effect on the planets ecosystem, what types of problems would arise if it came in contact with humans. [QUOTE]In some major and obvious ways (putting civilians in harm's way, for example), the Rebellion is far worse than The Empire.[/QUOTE] But again, you have to look at the whole picture. The Rebellion is there to end the rule of the Empire, because of the way the people themselves are treated. Without representation in the Senate quite a lot of people get angry. Kane says that they Empire acts for their people, which is only Imperial humans. What about the other species, humans are probably outnumbered by the sheer amount of alien species in the galaxy, and yet they have no representation. They are basically seen as not worthwhile in any sense. How does that say the Empire is not evil in a way. A racist ruling body that won't hesitate to destroy a planet for the sake of a "few." Again realize, that the Empire didn't give a chance for the Rebels to come out. Hell, going by the movies, there wasn't even a radio transmission demanding the Rebels come out or else. The Empire didn't try to reduce innocent deaths, had they cared about it as you said, they would have given an ultimatum(sp) for them to give up or else. If they didn't come out, then I can see where they may have cared about innocent lives but had no other choice, but they didn't. In no way is that trying to protect the innocent.

Yes, do go buy it. I am in fact reading it again right now. Does an accidental space between an i and n really confuse one so? It isn't that major of a mistake, and anyone can read the post through without having to think of what it is, just by the context of the sentence. Well it seems that we are both wrong with the Alderaan no weapons policy. My apologies. Though you were right about who banned them, we both had the times wrong. It was after the Clone Wars, not shortly after the outbreak of war. Again my apologies. [QUOTE]The Empire has committed crimes yes, but how often to governments face prosecutions for their actions ?[/QUOTE] In my mind the Rebellion is doing just that, just not in such a literal sense. They are making the Empire atrocities known to the galaxy, and are rising up to "bring them to justice" by creating a new government could prosecute had the Empire completely fallen right away. But, seeing as how the Empire didn't surrender, leaders and such could not be put on trial. Sort of like the Nurenburg(sp) trials after WWII. Or the fact that the Rebellion is occuring and is overthrowing a government for their actions is enough of a justice against them. [QUOTE]Now you're taking things a little too far, I don't believe The Empire would waste resources destroying every planet where they heard there's a Rebel Base. Tarkin was quite sure there was a Rebel base on Alderaan and destroyed the planet as both a message to the Rebellion and to the Galaxy in general.[/QUOTE] Well since this whole part is all hypothetical (you saying they won't destroy other planets, and with me saying they will) I will throw out another hypothetical situation. THis whole area is all our opinions I guess, but just to repeat, why on earth would they spend some much time and money to build something meant to destroy a moon/planet for a one time use. The logic of this still evades me. Anyways, Tarkin seems like the kind of dude who would take any chance to gain power. From the Unofficial Encyclopedia at theforce.net [b]However, Tarkin also had a hidden objective in creating the Death Star. Once the battle station was operational, he'd hoped to use it against Palpatine, in an attempt to take control of the galaxy for himself. [/b] What better way to go about it than destroying planets with supposed Rebels on it, or hell, start another war with him trying to take the throne of the Empire. They would have wasted more resources to build the damn thing for a one time use, rather than destroying planets with supposed Rebel bases. So until I can be convince otherwise, it was not meant for a one time use. Something that big and with so much time spent on it, would naturally be used more than once. In regards to the Clone Army. I am sure that they make up a LARGE part of the Republics army, but I also believe that non-clone troopers besides Jedi are involved. Giving the non-clone troopers the morale booster I was talking about. This could be put into past war conflicts as well, specially the Sith War. Since many, many more regular soldiers were fighting here, the Jedi may have been the boost they needed against the Sith. [QUOTE]The point I made was that there is little time to debate the morals of a weapon if it is your only likely chance of not being annihilated by forces who see your demise as a divine task from their gods.[/QUOTE] We could say that that is in effect exactly what is going on. The terrorists show no sign of giving up, and are hoping for the demise of our nation period. And in my mind, we show no signs of being closer to the goal of stopping terrorism than we were at the time of 9/11. Though that is just me. But yet we still don't use nukes. Just to add my views on the matter, I agree with Bush and what he is trying to do. Sooner or later something like this would have to be done, rather be sooner than later. Just had to add that. ^_^;; [QUOTE]I don't believe the Vong would have had a chance to do any serious damage against The Empire because their initial encounter would have been so swift and brutal on the side of the Empire I doubt many Vong forces would have had a chance to try and destroy the Death Star.[/QUOTE] I really don't know about that. Remember, there was a small force of Vong that entered and was destroyed, not the full fledged invasion yet to be seen. All throughout the movies it is seen that the Empire is cocky. Tarkin believing they would win the war with the Death Star after destroying a planet that offered no resistence, never having fought in a real battle with it yet. Shown again with the Emperor willingly allowing the Rebels to find the second DS, ultimately leading to his death and the dispersion of the Imperial fleet. I believe it is exactly as Han said. The Empire would defeat the first force, and noticing the utter destruction, would leave a motley fleet there to just guard the place due to their thinking they have won. But then the whole invasion force comes in. THat is where Han's "hot shot pilot" would come in and destroys the DS. EDIT: To Sirens post Even though they are hiding, wouldn't the Empire want to weigh the outcomes of destroying the planet? A Rebel base in hiding....they destroy the whole planet with the innocents. Of course some would be mad at the Rebellion, but when they would look at the whole picture, they would see what the Empire actually is. It was the Empire that destroyed the planet ultimately, not the Rebellion itself. [i]Which[/i] is EXACTLY why the DS was destroyed. All revolts are done in hiding. It is a known fact. The Empire came to power, through the hiding of Palpatine and his true motives. The Empire is basically a revolution against the Old Republic, and the Rebellion one against the Empire. The point I am trying to make with Kane and you I guess, is that the Rebellion would never willingly destroy a planet for those of a few. The Rebellion looked over the consequences of their actions, and based their actions on them, as did the New Republic in the NJO. Yes as Kane said, both sides are quiltyof genocide, but you have to look at the circumstances on why it was done. The Rebellion was fighting to protect themselves, as well as others who get ino the way of a war they may not be even aware about. If throughout my time here I have been giving both of you a misconstrued(is that even a word? lol) of what I was geting at I am sorry. I do not agree wtih Kane's views about why things are done. He has been making it seem that the Rebellion is just as bad as the Empire. When in fact, the things the Rebellion are doing, are in retaliation to things done upon them and others. If you will read through the countless sources for Star Wars, you will see the atrocites the Empire itself has committed, and see that the Rebellion has done far fewer against the Empire. The Outbound Flight project, a project sent to discover the Universe. Destroyed by Thrawn on Palpatines order, in secret mind you just like the Rebellion if you look at it in that way. Pre-Empire of course, but exactly what an Emperor like Palpatine would do, all ready showing his evil intentions before his goal is even realized.

THe thank you was thanks for providing where you got your opinions of the Vietnam/Star Wars parallel. Now, I am not going to get into the whole thing with the Lucas interview and what not, because that is not what I am talking about. I can see where you are coming from, especially after reading all that, so I agree with you. But the things I am talking about are the things Kane is saying. In an earlier post, Kane says that the Empire and Rebellion are both guilty of genocide. But what you must look at rather than the here and now is the whole picture. The Empire struck the first blow, the Empire commited the first act of genocide, because they are threatened as you yourself said. The Empire did it because they could do it, and decided to do it. Now why did the Rebellion commit genocide, on a much small scale mind you. The Rebellion never once willingy commited an act of genocide against the Empire. They did it because they had to. I agree with your views of the Death Star being built to strike fear and what not into the Rebellion. But it was also created for destruction as I have said. How many rebel bases would have been around the galaxy at this time? There were probably Rebel cells all over the galaxy, and the destruction of planets, would surely not diminish the views of the Rebellion, it would only increase their reasons to rebel. Which is exactly what happened.EDIT: In any other situation they would have sent all things available, but in this, their resolve was so great that they attacked with such a small force. THey sent a motley crew of star fighters to take it out, to show that things like that will only cause more death than necessary and that they cannot be scared into defeat. Had the Death Star done its so called "job" of inciting terror and causing "traitors" to back down, the Rebellion wouldn't have attacked it. The first Death Star didn't cause the Rebels to back down, so why build a second one? If they have shown that things like that won't scare them why bother? It has been shown that weapons of mass destruction doesn't scare them. Giving you the benefit of the doubt here, lets say the first one was built [i]just[/i] to incite fear among the Rebellion. With it being destroyed, the Empire has nothing left. Then it is safe to assume, that the second one would have been used for the destruction of the Rebellion. Which is shown being used in battle, continuously, rather than just once or twice to incite fear as you say they were meant for. If they first one was for the purpose of inciting fear, which failed, then the second one was made for the destruction phase, which also failed. But I don't buy the being made to incite fear, I still believe it was meant for destruction purposes period. Nothing that is said can be done to deter me from that. A superlaser powerful enough to destroy a planet, was not meant for a one time use. Siren: Your point of the Empire not blowing up Yavin itself gives me a little more respect for the Empire. But all I really see is a commander who can realize what would happen, were he to destroy such a large gas planet in the whole scheme of things. Space around the area could be disturbed for years. But also, they only have need to destroy places that have the Rebels on it. No need to destroy an entire system if they can do it for just one planet and recieve the same result. I do give them credit for thinking there though, but Yavin IV is also a planet with no civilization, or advanced civilization anywasy(can't remember if there was a native population of Masassi still around? or if they were long gone?) When I say their acts of genocide, I mean on the planets they are destroying itself, the one planet.When it comes to the planet itself, is the genocide I am talking about, sorry if I wasn't clear enough. THe fact that they would destroy planets for a few(again when I say few, I mean quite a lot compared to the whole population) and not think twice of those who may be loyal to the Empire or plain ignorant of the outside world. If I remember correctly, the Jedi council [i]wanted[/i] to stay out of the war, but Revan and Malak went anyways. Nevermind that the Jedi did fight at this point, but keep in mind they were NOT going to fight at all at that point in time. Yes the Republic would have been crushed, but they Republic was not [i]using[/i] them as their crutch. It was the actions of a few that went and fought, against the wishes of the whole, they didn't want to be a crutch, but ended up being one so to speak if you are using just the fact that Reven and Malak were Jedi and fighting. THe actions of a few, don't reflect the whole in my mind. The Jedi were not a crutch at this point in time, the only ones who could be considered a crutch would be Malak and Revan, they were the ones fighting, not the Jedi themselves as a whole. And as I have all ready said, when it comes to the Sith fighting in some way or another, then you can consider them being a crutch in a way. The only way to beat a Sith, is to use a Jedi. Pure and simple. That is why Luke was fighting, the enemies were in actuallity the Sith, and he was the only Jedi who could fight. In certain situations the Jedi are the crutch so to speak, but they are not the crutch period. How many battles were won against the Vong before the Jedi figured out how to "sense" them in a way, and figure out how to fight. The first battle on the outer rim was won without the Jedi powers even though they were present. I'll get back to you on others, its been over a year since i have read the books, and am due for another time reading them soon in my mind. How many battles against the Imperial Remnant were won without the help of Jedi? Plenty of Rouge Squadron missions until Jedi began to file into their ranks. In certain circumstance I agree with you two completely, but then in some I do not agree. Oh , even if they are convicted criminals, does their actions give the Empire the right to destroy the entire planet? Innocents may also have been there such as the wookie slaves. Had they criminals been that big of a threat, they wouldn't have been allowed to live i n the first place.

Ahh yes Siren you are correct, a copy of the game, I do have, and yes it is a great game. :-) You mentioned that the Jedi fought during the Sith wars, and claimed they are the crutch. As I have said, when there is a Sith involved in some way, of course the Jedi will be involved. How on earth could the Republic defeat an enemy that uses the Force, without their own force users to protect? Now if it were a war between the Republic and another non-force using power, the Jedi would have no reason to fight alongside. What they would do would be try to preserve peace beforehand, as Mace Windu himself said. What would make much more sense if you said depending on the circumstances the Jedi are the crutch of the Republic. You are making it seem as if they are period, when in actuallity they are not. The fight, when the Sith are involved. And knowing the true ways of the Sith, they fight alongside the Republic. So, in certain circumstances I agree with you that they Jedi are the crutch, but not in all as you are making them out to be.

First I would like to point out, the final NJO book has been out for quite awhile, thus allowing me to know the outcome. ;-) Thank you Siren, I was saying my views on the matter, and wasn't sure if it was your opinion or what. The no weapons on Alderaan was in the EU. I don't know where exactly, but I read it in the Offical Star Wars Encyclopedia. I will search for the book and give you the exact entry. And to Kane, the planet doesn't allow weapons on it, it doesn't disband Alderaan natives to use weapons outside of the planet. And it wasn't Bail who banned weapons, it was done long before his time. [QUOTE]Despayre was an Outer Rim planet for degenerates and home to a wide range of prison complexes that detained dangerous criminals of all types and races.[/QUOTE] Not only that but Wookie slaves as well. Does the actions of the prisoners condemn them to death? Does the fact that they are criminals condemn them as well? Some of the criminals in there, have probably done things that the Empire itself has done(murder, stealing...) but is the Empire seen as a criminal? If the fact that they are criminals gives them the right to destroy them, the Empire should destroy itself as well, seeing as how they do the things criminals do as well. [QUOTE]You say more ?innocent lives? would have been lost, who?s lives, Rebels ? We know that the Rebellion isn't innocent, it is made up of violent traitors and founded by power hungry senators.[/QUOTE] No I mean the people who are caught up in the war wether they like it or not. Scenario: The Empire gets whiff so to speak of a Rebel base being on some planet. They capture a Rebel, and interrogate him, basically doing the same thing that happened to Leia. The Rebel denies any existance of a base on the planet, knowing full well he is telling the truth. What does the Empire do? Destroys the planet. Innocent lives like those. Yes it isn't meant to destroy lives, but come on. Something like that is used to destroy a planet. Really, think about it, how can you say there wouldn't be innocent lives amongst the so called Rebels being there, when they might not even be there? I honestly do not see problems with my spelling, unless I am completely blind. I see everything spelled correctly, maybe a few words that have different tenses or certain words to use i n situations, but other than that I don't see it. The Republic tried to give equal opprotunities to all. They allowed planets within their rule to be represented in the Senate. The Republic made an attempt to give equal rights to all. Rights which everyone wants. Rights which were denied under the rule of the Empire. Why did they engage on their own free will? You said it yourself, the Sith. Had the Jedi sat back and done nothing, as I seem to be getting from your post, the Republic would have lost much quicker than it had. The Jedi saw the problems that would come with a Sith victory, and for their own sake, as well as for others, they fought on the side of the Republic to the benefit of the greater good. I said the part with the Jedi on a hilltop as a perspective from a Republic soldier. What better way to boost morale if it is low than a Jedi standing there head held high and what not. It was more of a part I would like to see in Episode III if you don't want to take it into context here. If there is little debate about using superweapons in war, why haven't we just nuked the mountains on the border of Afghanistan(sp) and Pakistan to just knock out bin Laden? The terrorists surely aren't losing this war, they are still around, plotting and waiting, so why not just nuke them? Right and wrong come into play here, morals come into play. I really can't continue this with you, seeing as how you haven't read the book, so read on if you wish, but it contains spoilers. [spoiler] Only the Vong are not the only ones left. Throughout the series, you see Vong personel going over to the side of the Republic. Such as Harrar(sp). He see what is going on, and he works for peace between the two peoples. The war ends around Coruscant with the identiy of the real Shimraa(sp) being revealed, and the reasons behind why the Vong cannot be felt in the force. Its called The Unifying Force in case you didn't know, very good book.[/spoiler] Who says that point is moot between a war with the Empire and Vong? Lets say the Empire did win the Civil War. They would have had no use to build another Death Star, so they have the one. The Vong, a race which has been around for far longer than the Empire, knows how to fight, and would find a weakness. Nom Anor himself said the war would be harder, but not impossible to beat. And that was only if it was at the height of its power, which it sure wouldn't be after a civil war that took time and resources. Had the Death Star not been destroyed early on in the Vong war then, the planets that the Vong had captured would be destroyed, and the Vong would destroy the Empire's planets for the same reasons. It would be a race to see who could destroy the others planets first, leaving nothing behind. Han also says in Destiny's Way that the Empire would build some gigantic superweapon which would only result in its destruction. The only reason the Empire would stand a chance would be the fact that they are basically the Vong, just as ruthless but with machines rather than living organisms.

[QUOTE]When Lucas wasn't going to direct Apocalypse Now, his version of which would have been an indictment of America's role in Vietnam, he went on to create Star Wars. Yes, there is a heavy Japanese influence, with mystical warriors and so forth, but for those who would like to argue that The Empire is evil, and the Rebellion is good, I think it's worth nothing that The Empire is really just George Lucas' science-fiction equivalent of America, and the Rebellion is the Viet Cong.[/QUOTE] This is just my take on this. What you say does make sense. But what you also say can be used in many different situations. The US colonists being the freedom fighters, and the British as the oppressive regime. For all we know, Lucas could have decided to do that thing with A.N. after reading some American Revolution book, and wanting to do something similar to that by following the US colonists, found the similarity in the Vietnam war. I don't agree with that, unless it is stated outright by Lucas, and if you claim it is, I want proof, I just find that a coincidence. There are so many other possibilities with this if you want to go with it, with the Vietnam war one being the only possible one to make it happen, but not the only inspiration. Besides, I was asking what Kane thought they really are, since we never explained what he meant. I am assuming he means Rebellion aren't the good guys we make them out to be and what not. I didn't mean the question so literally. ^_^;;

I just went and re-read page 89, and still stand by what I have said. [QUOTE]I find it amusing that people think the destruction of Alderaan was unjust, it was more than likely a Rebel stronghold, we can see that from the above information and so justly was a target for destruction.[/QUOTE] The Death Star was a military stronghold for the Empire, which had way more power than Alderaan, and was thus destroyed. If you say the destruction of Alderaan was just, then so was the Death Star. The Death Star was [i]not[/i] made for a one time use. Common sense needs to come into play once again. An Empire facing a force that is actually causing them trouble, spends quite a lot of time, and money to build a station that can destroy planets for a one time use? Palease. We made the atomic bomb, something with extraordinary power to use in time of war. Did we use it once? No, we used it twice, just like the Death Star was used twice. The mere fact that someone can believe it was built for a one time use is beyond me, why waste all that money and supplies, when they can take their fleet of Star Destroyers and do the same thing and reduce the surface to rubble but leave the planet. No, the Death Star was made to destroy, no other reason, and would continue to be used for that purpose. Why else woud they build a new one? Thousands of planets, billions of planet in the galaxy where their soldiers can leave, why a space station that is meant for killing? [QUOTE]We can now see with distinction that the Rebellion is as guilty of murdering countless innocent civilians as the Empire, I would ask anyone here to dispute me when I say that the destruction of the Death Star by the Rebels is comparable to that of Alderaan as an act of Mass-Murder.[/QUOTE] Why did they do this you may ask? Well lets look at the facts. Alderaan may have been a Rebel stronghold as you and another have said. And you both claim that the people of Alderaan know about its ties with the Rebellion. If this were so, why are there no weapons on ALderaan? All their weapons are off in some spaceship from long ago, and they haven't made new ones. Wouldn't the people want to protect themselves if they knew they were i n this situation? They destroyed it, because the Empire destroyed Alderaan. What other reason? A space station just destroyed an entire planet, for the sake of a few(when I say few I mean quite a bit, seeing as how this is an entire planet we are talking about). But still come on,the Rebellion destroyed those lives for the greater good. Had they not, more innocent lives would have been destroyed by the Empire and its Death Star. [QUOTE]From that it was converted into a body ruled by Palpatine under which there was no corruption, where action was taken at Palpatine's whim, and who's ideals are condemned as being "evil" by a group of insurrectionist bent on bringing back the antiquated and corrupt Old Republic.[/QUOTE] How many planets were destroyed by the Old Republic? How many species were denied positions in the Senate? How are is actions NOT evil, I again ask. He destroys planets with space stations, he bombards planets from orbit, he kills countless innocent lives, none of which the Rebellion does WILLINGLY. The Old Republic may be corrupt, but how are they to know that their new government will be corrupt? All they know is that the Empire is not the way a galaxy is supposed to be run, but a new type should come and give equal opprotunities to ALL. Not only humans as was with the Empire. [QUOTE]During war time they were made the officer class of the Old Republic?s Clone Army and they were even religated to body-guard duty for wary Senators who believed that somebody was out to get them. [/QUOTE] They are designated the office class, because the Republic was not ready for a war. They needed people to lead, and the Jedi were their best bet. A highly disciplined group of men and women who could raise moral, fight alongside the men dieing. Who doesn't want to see a lone figure stand atop a hill and ignite a lightsaber and wait for the ensuing battle alongside his men? Obi-wan said they are not a "police force" or something to that effect in Ep. II. It is only in certain conditions when things like that are done. [QUOTE]Now if that Empire had defeated the Rebellion things would be much different, after their initial contact with the Vong Palpatine would have ordered the research of said pathogen and used it to destroy the Vong efficiently and mercilessly. That or they would have used the Death Star to destroy the Vong fleet and any planet they had conquered to give them a clear message.[/QUOTE] And again, how does that justify their actions? Yes the Vong are just as bad as the Empire, but look at the end of the NJO. Ultimately the good of the Republic, or whatever its new name is now, I just cant remember it, allowed them to live peacefully together. After the intial contact, the Empire would have just completely destroyed the Vong fleet at the Outer Rim. How would this send good messages across the galaxy. After a Rebellion that finished not too long ago, a new race appears and is utterly destroyed? Lets take into consideration that we do not know what the Vong are like at the time, pretend the NJO never happened the way it did. How would the people of the galaxy know they were bad guys? For all they know they could have been a race seeking refuge, and were utterly destroyed. The people would know that the Empire would do this, what with the destruction of Alderaan allready i n history. [QUOTE]No, they decide that it would be too much like the Empire to do something of that nature and continue to get pounded.[/QUOTE] EXACTLY! Just as Boba(my good ole' pal Boba ;)) said, the Republic has a sense of right and wrong. Under no reason should something be used that can destroy and entire race. It is just plain [i]wrong[/i]. Nevermind if the Empire would do that or not, after reading something like that, would you want to think of them as a good guy? Geeze, c'mon get real. Rather fight fairly against and enemy that doesn't and win, and show who is actually the ones in the right. [QUOTE]Well think about it, a government that can do something is at least better than a government that can do nothing, aside from their resounding differences in terms of rights and ideals you'd have to admit that the Empire is at least capable of guarding itself without relying on the Jedi to solve everyone of it's problems. [/QUOTE] It guards itself by means than any free-thinking man/woman realize is atrocious and therefor gives the Rebellion all new meaning. [QUOTE]Now if the Vong had faced the full strength of the Empire they would have been fighting a war against an enemy who had the same regard for life as they did, in the end the Yuuzhan Vong were as eager to commit xenocide at the Empire was. [/QUOTE] Well that is a good thing to know, I agree with Boba. With a war between the two of them, there would be nothing left in the galaxy anyways, so it wouldn't matter.

The Rebellion and Empire are truley [i]what[/i] though? You have failed to explain what they really are without any way of showing us how. You have said things about the Rebellion being bad. How? You have said that the Empire isn't bad. Again how? Even when you look at it in its entirety, you see that the Empire is indeed bad, and the Rebellion is fighting the [i]good[/i] cause. I am still very curious as to how the Empire can be good and the Rebellion is bad. Please enlighten us on these views of yours. If you want us to possibly see it your way in the slightest, you have to work with us and say why you feel this way. So far you haven't, and the things you have said are way out there, borderline of insane. You have to look at the things you said with common sense and realize that what you said does not help you views in any way whatsoever. It just aims to confuse those who do not have a grasp of what and how far Star Wars is.

Just what are the true sides of it all? The Empire being good? The Rebellion being bad? Palease, as Darkblade said, it is George Lucas' point of view, nothing else. You can choose to believe there is some deeper meaning, when there really isn't. It [i]is[/i] a story about good vs. evil. The Empire being evil, the Rebellion being good. Here, I want to say/show something to you. From what I am able to grasp from your views, you are saying that to the Empire, the Rebellion is bad. Well any man with a shred of common sense can see that. But who is the true evil doers? The Rebellion who is fighting for fairness, and equality? Who has done more atrocities? THe Empire or the Rebellion? The Empire voluntarily(sp.) destroyed two planets, one being the planet it was built at to test it, and Alderaan. What did the Rebellion do? Destroyed two machines created for destruction to save the lives of many more than those on the Death Stars. There are no good things about the Death Stars. Something so massive, built by an Empire under a Dark Jedi, what else would it be used for besides to get his way? The Empire is truly bad, and the Rebellion is good. It is as simple as that. You can't take something that is clearly pointed out in all the books, movies, games, anything Star Wars, and try to make it something it isn't. Everything says the Empire is bad, even if it is from the point of view of only the Rebellion. How can the Empire not be bad is my question to you. When there is sufficien evidence to support your claim about what each side truly is, I take your views with a grain of salt. Don't feed me that the Death Star had families and everything on it either. What did Alderaan have? No families? What did Desparye have? No worker forced to work on a machine built for destruction? Every Rebellion is seen as bad to those they are rebelling against. But what you have to look at is the whole picture. Why are the rebelling, what has the ruling power done to basically piss those people off to make a change. The story is from George Lucas' point of view, which clearly states the Empire is evil period, with the Rebelliong being the fighters of good. Sorry if I sounded rude during this, but I am a die hard fan of Star Wars, and when someone tries to say that what has been said and shown since 1977, is basically bogus, I get a little angry. ^_^;;

Well you see, the Death Star WAS made to inspire terror into the Rebellion. It's main purpose was to crush the Rebellion, and it so happened that they could house familes on it. But it's main objective is the same "stop the Rebellion." How do they do that? Destroy planets. Now look at it like this. The Death Star was built by Wookie slaves, slaves mind you, on the planet Desparye(sp.). After it is finished, what does it do? It destroys the planet, with the slaves on it to [i]test[/i] it. Why didn't they try it on a backwater world with no population? Why didn't they use their own men to build it rather than slaves? It destroys Alderran, after Leia gives him the location of the Rebel base, even though it is an abandoned one. They destroy it AFTER mind you, when it was said that she could save her planet by confessing. Did they follow what they say? No. By reading into what Kane has said, they destroyed it because of the Rebellion possibly having a base there and what not. I find that complete rubbish. How many other planets out there have Rebellion factions o n it? Just leave the Death Star to destroy them, ultimately destroying more people than on the Death Star itself? It was destroyed so as to protect other planets with Rebel factions in the midst of innocent civilians. It was destroyed to keep the Rebellion going, which would bring a rightful government to the galaxy, albeit one plauged by a past failure. The Death Star is a symbol of Evil, plain and simple. Doesn't matter if families lived aboard, it was created for the purpose of destruction, nothing else. To expand on a few things I said above. You say that the Rebellion commited acts of Genocide. Look at it this way. If the Rebellion hadn't fought, how many other planets would the Death Star have destroyed? Hundreds, maybe thousands. Billions of people, mostly innocents, would be dead. You are in the position of a leader of the Rebelliong, what do you want, to just let it go about its business searching out Rebel hideouts and destroying the whole planet of billions when only a few are with the Rebellion? Or do you make a stand, fight for yourself and the innocent bystanders, and destroy a weapon created for destruction? Even if you do look at it from the Empires point of view, it is evil, period. But being on the side of the Empire, you [i]think[/i] you are the good guys. Destroying planets, slaughtering villages from orbit, you believe those are the ways of the good. But then again, Hitler and his soldies believed they were the ones that were right. The New Republic, hell even the old Republic never did things on this scale. The Seperatists, the Old Republics "Rebellion." Did they search out and destroy their planets and people? No, they searched for diplomatic solutions, and only turned to war at the last result. Saying the Rebellion is "evil" (said in a few posts back talking about we onlu see it from their point of view and that rubbish) is like saying the Vong are the good side. We only see it from the Republics point of view. THe Vong believe they were right. Cleansing the galaxy of inferior beings, destroying planets with plauges( Star by Star). If you use common sense, you will see that what Lucas portrayed is the truth. Even if it is from the point of the Rebellion, it is the simple Truth. We rebelled against the English. They precieved us as traitors and in the wrong, we saw ourselves in the light, as right. THe English thought they were right with their taxation, saying it was to help them. It was unfair, we had no representation and what not. But we say this as wrong. Just as the Rebellion saw the Empires deeds as wrong, and did what we did, rebelled against the tyranny of the Empire, just as we did with the British.

Here are some banners of mine. I pretty much did the same thing for the backgrounds, but changed the colours around. I really don't know much else to do at this time. I really don't know what to do with the open space in the first banner. But so far, I think it is turning out kind of good. The second one was just put together with the Evangelions. So, I guess just tell meh what you think.

I like the avatar. To me, it is just something that can be an avatar if you get what I mean. Like it was meant for an avatar. I don't know, I just think it really fits. The sig is nice. I like the Matrix effet ( hoping it is) all blurred. The picture is good too. I like its placement and the effects done unto it I really like the (looks like it) glowing effect, gives him a sort of ghostly effect in my mind. The text is really cool too with that triangle in the middle, really nice. But my only "beef" is you could possibly have added another picture? To me it looks like there is a lot of space used up by the test could have been filled up with another image. But that is just me. 8/10

In the move Glory when the [spoiler] main character, or one of them (Matthew Broderick) ran up the hill to the fort at the end of the movie to lead his men, and is then shot down. THe music that starts to play as Denzel Washington( I think it was him) runs up and grabs the falled US flag, and scream to the rest to "C'mon" and is then shot down himself. Then the rest of the soldiers run up the ridge with the same music playing.[/spoiler] I get the shivers watching that part. I love it.

Eeekk. Sorry. Yeah, I am using Photoshop. Here is another banner I made. Basically the same way that I did the other one, just with different pictures and a different background. I kind of like this one, if only because the quote goes with the pictures, in my mind at least.

Yeah, it is the connection on my T.V. I went and plugged my DVD player in yesterday, and the same thing happened. Waves occured, and the screen started to flash a bit. I went and moved the cords around in the av plug thing on the T.V. and managed to get picture back. That is what I have been doing so far, just moving the cords around when something is going on. I'll be investing in that A/V switch box as soon as possible.

No there is no sound. I managed to play for about 45 minutes again today, but then it did the same thing. -_- It probably is the AV jacks....my T.V. is getting kinda old. I have a PS2...and I hate it. ;-) So no thanks incoming.

It happens with all games I have tried so far(KOTOR, Halo, The Sufferng). It plays them for a bit, then the wave thing starts, and eventually it just shuts off. There is no sound. It just takes me to this black screen and stays there. Once the game shuts off like that, I cannot see the main screen. I was also thinking. Could this be a problem with my AV jacks? and not the X-Box itself?

OK, today I was playing some Knights of the Old Republic and I noticed this wavy type of thing going down my screen. So I turned my game off and made sure all plugs were in tight. I played again for about a half hour with nothing wrong. Then I stopped for about 30 minutes and decided to play again. In the middle of a starship battle (where you control the gun turret for those who play this game) the wave thing started again. Then suddenly the game itself turns off. The screen goes black, but my X Box is still on with nothing showing up on the screen. There are no scratches or anything on the disk, so that's not a problem. Any ideas of what can be wrong?

Attached is a banner I made, and am quite proud of actually. But I want to do some more with it, but don't know how. The picture of Shinji is my main concern right now. I want to get the picture to like....blend into the background if you will. Sort of like the OB banner with the anime person. Instead of it being the normal colour of the picture, I want it to be kind of like the colour of the background. Anyone understand what I mean? Until then, just tell me what you think. It is one of my better banners, with a lot more time put into it than just slapping some pictures onto a regular coloured background. Comments and help appreciated. :-)

Well I have been watching this most of the time with it being on T.V. and I must say, you'r right, I wasn't [i]as[/i] moved as the first time, seeing as how I know what is coming. But I don't see the corny nature of the whole ordeal or the lame dialogue, though that may just be me, I don't know. I still like it just as much, I just wont be brought to tears again, heh.

For all who have seen this, what do you think? Just a few minutes ago, it finished on Starz I think it was. And.....all that comes to mind is wow. Completely different than what I was expecting. I remember when it first came out, I basically judged it before even seeing it, like judging a book on its cover. Sadly, I wasn't able to catch it from the beginning, but I hope to later today. This is a GREAT movie. Right now, this is a movie that I will forever like. One of my top favorites. Some things in it though, are things that I can't believe, things I wish didn't happen, but knew they had to get the movie the way it is. This is quite frankly, the only movie that has ever made me cry. So, for all who have seen it, what do you think?

I just started this book last week, and wow. :eek: In my mind, this book is pure genius. I had heard people talking about it these past months, but never bothered to pick it up, thinking it was just one of those "grown-up" books, if you know what i mean. I am a science fiction kind of guy, and I rarely read books outside of it, they never catch my interest. But this book....again...wow. I love it. Amazing how my view on the Bible, Da Vinci, etc.. has just completely changed. The arguments are sound, and I am sure there are plenty of sources out there to support the fact, I just haven't looked. Im a little over half way through the book, and find it very hard to put it down, I want to finish it as soon as possible to see how it all turns out. So, anyone else read/ing this book? What do/did you think?

I agree with Angel here. I mean, don't we have the right to take some sort of action against a person breaking into your house? o_0 That is what I was led to believe, and I think shooting the guy would be a good solution [i]if[/i] the situation called for it, such as he is pointing a gun at you, or doing something that can harm you and others. It hasn't happened to me directly, but back at home my grandparents house got broken into. A few things were stolen but nothing that was major. And in my old neighborhood there were a few robberies here and there, but again, nothing too major.

Signs is a GREAT movie. Ever since I first saw the previews I knew it would be great. It scared the begeezes(sp.) out of me the first time though. I remember going home and going straight to my computer to look up things about aliens, :laugh: Then I spent the whole night just sleeping on and off making sure my blinds were down on my windows so I wouldn't see an alien on the roof, and to make sure no hands were underneath my door. :rolleyes: I love this movie. And even today, it still scares me. Like the other day I was watching it, and I knew when all the parts that would make me jump were, and I still jumped crazily. But yes great movie, I love it.