Desbreko

[color=#4B0082]Hmm... Maybe I will have to look into this after all. Being able to set up GE to use mouselook would make the game way more fun for me. Oh, and I forgot to mention, linking to them is fine. They're don't host or link to ROMs of the game, and the emulators themselves are perfectly legal, so they're good.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]Yes, artwork and photography also belong in the Art Studio.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]All the old articles are still there, the section just isn't linked to on the main page. You can still go to [url=http://www.theotaku.com/articles/]http://www.theotaku.com/articles/[/url] to read them. And the site isn't accepting any new articles, either.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]There have been a lot more advertising threads popping up in the last few months, mostly in the Web Site Workshop and PC/Mac. We've banned a lot of accounts that signed up just to spam advertisements, and I've also banned several IP addresses. So we are working on the problem. As for why there's been such a large number lately, I really have no idea.[/color]

[quote name='Shinmaru']Pretty much. The only valid reason to own a copy of Wand of Gamelon is because you're an obsessive Zelda completist.[/quote][color=#4B0082]The best part is, I don't even own a CD-i system to play it on. (Though I wish I did. Maybe I'll look around again and see if there are any on eBay that aren't stupidly expensive.) I actually ordered the OoT action figures from Nintendo Power, though. They used to send out those Super Power Supplies catalogs a couple times per year and I couldn't resist. I also got an OoT soundtrack.[/color] [quote name='Sandy']Those poor figurines, still wrapped up like that! :( Free 'em, I say! Forget resale values, you're never going to sell them anyway![/quote][color=#4B0082]I might, except I can readily imagine what horrible things my brother would do to them if I left them sitting out. He already puts the Pokémon plushies on top of my monitors into obscene poses.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]Better framerates and longer draw distance looks nice. But until I can use a keyboard and mouse I still won't be too impressed. GoldenEye itself may have held up pretty well over time but the control scheme definitely hasn't.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]We don't have a section dedicated to AMVs, but user-created ones have generally been posted in the Art Studio before, so you can go ahead and link to them in there if you like.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]I win this thread. [URL=http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zwogandootfiguresmm5.jpg][IMG]http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2085/zwogandootfiguresmm5.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Yes, that [i]is[/i] a copy of the CD-i Zelda: Wand of Gamelon and some Ocarina of Time action figures. With a shelf full of Nintendo Power magazines in the background.[/color]

[QUOTE=John]It's not quite fair to measure by the current month, though, since we're only two thirds of the way through it yet. And of course, a lot of the long-term drop in posts is probably due to the raised quality standards.[/QUOTE][color=#4B0082]Note the "1-19" in the dates on those. :p And yes, higher standards have a ton to do with the drop in post frequency over the long run. Before 2004 the numbers are significantly higher than the data for 2004-2006 that I posted up there but most of it wasn't nearly as high quality as what we see today.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]I figured that would happen. My local GameStop only had eight Wii pre-orders, which I knew couldn't be the total they'd get in at launch. Even if places don't do any more pre-orders I expect I'll be able to find a Wii somewhere in town without too much trouble.[/color]

[quote name='Dagger']The slightly longer answer is that this is a particularly busy time of year. I don't remember if we had a higher level of activity around the same time in '05, but people always have school, jobs, new hobbies and other committments to deal with. Things will pick up eventually. :)[/quote][color=#4B0082]This is where the Statistics feature in the admin control panel comes in handy. Turns out activity was higher during this period last year: October 1-19 2005: 3194 posts October 1-19 2006: 1881 posts Overall, the number of posts per month has dropped a bit from 2005, but not a ton.[/color] [code][font=courier new]Month Year Posts January 2004 11851 February 2004 7534 March 2004 7967 April 2004 6625 May 2004 5940 June 2004 6831 July 2004 8647 August 2004 7135 September 2004 5769 October 2004 5351 November 2004 5084 December 2004 6359 January 2005 6836 February 2005 5781 March 2005 6707 April 2005 6537 May 2005 5901 June 2005 5942 July 2005 6077 August 2005 6721 September 2005 4690 October 2005 5386 November 2005 6620 December 2005 6627 January 2006 6650 February 2006 4262 March 2006 6175 April 2006 6136 May 2006 6242 June 2006 4919 July 2006 5643 August 2006 4913 September 2006 3676 October 2006 1881[/font][/code][color=#4B0082]That 11,851 for January 2004 makes me want to go look up what was going on that month, though.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]I shall slap down the unbelievers with my hot, flaming monkey. That is all.[/color]

[quote][url=http://www.nintendowifi.com/customersupport/troubleshoot.do?error=51300&x=0&y=0][u][b]NintendoWifi.com[/b][/u][/url] Error Code: 51300-5139 [size=1]Our experience has shown that this error message is typically caused by WEP Key issues. Please read the following information: # Check Nintendo?s router info for special notes, if available, for your router. 1. [url=http://www.nintendowifi.com/consumerservice/routerSetup.do][u]Click here[/u][/url] to go to our Wireless Router Configuration page. 2. Use the drop-down box on the left to select, if available, your router manufacturer. 3. Click on your router's model number, if available. 4. Read any "special notes" at the top of the router's page. Many issues can be solved by changing settings described in the "special notes." # Are you using WEP security on your router? 1. Log into the router using the default IP (consult your router's manual for assistance) 2. If you are using 64-bit encryption, the WEP Key must be a 10-character key consisting of numbers or letters A through F. 3. If you are using 128-bit encryption, the WEP Key must be a 26-character key consisting of numbers or letters A through F. 4. The WEP Key must be a Hexadecimal (1-9, A-F, no other special characters or letters). 5. Verify they are using the WEP Key in the first (#1) slot. Even though their router may have multiple slots, the Nintendo DS is only compatible with the WEP Key in slot #1. # Check to see if your router is using MAC filtering. 1. Log into the router using the default IP. 2. Find the section for MAC Filtering (typically under "Security"). 3. If MAC Filtering is on ("enabled"), enter the Nintendo DS?s MAC address to the list of approved MAC address. For info on locating the DS?s MAC address, [url=http://www.nintendowifi.com/consumerservice/showTopic.do?topicId=Home_Connection_Setup&catId=Connecting_Home#ConHelp_home_MAC][u]click here[/u][/url]. (For assistance with locating the MAC Filtering section of your router?s setup tool, please consult the router?s manual or contact the manufacturer.)[/size][/quote][color=#4B0082]Also, try setting the router's basic rate to 1-2 mbps. That was the problem I had when setting up my DS to go online through my router. [b]Edit:[/b] This thread is being closed. Please post in the [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=56239][u]new tech support thread[/u][/url] if you need help.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]So here's [url=http://www.koopacabana.com/archives/48-Japanese-Twilight-Princess-To-Be-Sold-Online-Only.html][u]something interesting[/u][/url]. Apparently the GCN version of Twilight Princess is only going to be available in Japan through Nintendo's online store. First the GCN version's delay in North America, and now this. It seems like Nintendo wants to move the game over to the Wii entirely but they're stuck with both versions because they were saying forever that the game would be released on the GCN.[/color]

[quote name='Charles']Rather, the conflict is whether the Wii TP is enough to justify the purchase of an entirely new system when you could theoretically play the same game on your current system. Is it worth spending $300 for the Wii enhanced port? Are the enhancements really that significant? Of course the answer is subjective, but that is the source of concern there unless you just have plenty of money to throw around.[/quote][color=#4B0082]It seemed to me that Alex was arguing that the Wii version is pointless and not worth buying under any circumstances. That was the impression I'd been getting, and I don't recall him ever making any distinctions. That's mainly what I take issue with.[/color] [quote name='Charles']That keeps getting repeated here, but let's lay the cards on the table. It is obvious that Nintendo did not have a killer app ready for the Wii launch. There is no Mario game. There is no Super Smash Bros. Heck, there is no Wario Ware. Most of the games available at launch are mini games or extremely questionable in terms of quality. So, Nintendo took a highly anticipated Gamecube game, enhanced it slightly, slapped a Wii sticker on it and strategically delayed the Cube version. The Wii TP is the Wii launch. No one is buying the Wii at launch for other games because there aren't any worth noting. Just like at most launches. The PS3 is in the same situation and it really makes me appreciate what MS did.[/quote][color=#4B0082]From what I've been reading, Red Steel is expected to do fairly well. But this is beside the point. See, my argument has never focused on the initial launch only; what's available at launch is irrelevant. My point is that, if someone buys a Wii for whatever reason, on launch day or not, Wii-TP will be worth purchasing instead of GCN-TP. (Again, assuming you're interested in the new control scheme.) That's all there is to it.[/color] [quote name='Charles']Eh, generally speaking, a real Wii Zelda will come along eventually that will make better use of the Wiimote because it will be designed for the Wii from the ground up. That should be a fact and I don't even think it's worth discussing too much right now. Yet, that is the frame of reference he is using in comparison to the Wii port. Of course we should not assume any specifics but some assumptions are pretty darn safe. Because Nintendo chose to launch a system that entirely rests on its ability to offer unique controls, it is the right of the consumer to have high expectations. Nintendo is releasing a system that is more or less and Xbox with better textures and less shaders and charging $250 for it, so we should be making idealistic aspirations and expecting advanced use of the controller. If I'm not getting that I may as well be playing my DS instead.[/quote][color=#4B0082]You're right, it is reasonable to expect the first real Wii Zelda to make more and better use of the controller than Wii-TP. But arguing from assumption is still bad form. My main point beneath all that was still that you can't reasonably compare TP to the first real Wii Zelda in an argument over whether Wii-TP is worth buying. What you should be comparing it to is GCN-TP because that's your substitute for Wii-TP, not the next Zelda. The next Zelda won't be out for quite a while, but the two versions of TP are being released within about a month of each other. Or in other words, you can't substitute the next Zelda for Wii-TP--and therefore the comparison is moot--but you can substitute GCN-TP for Wii-TP.[/color] [quote name='Charles']The controls are fun, I'm sure. But remember what I said earlier--Nintendo is asking us to pay $250 to gain access to them. Because that is the case, we should put them under critical scrutiny. The Wii launch is Zelda. Sure there will be some Virtual Console games and I can check the weather, but what else is there, immediately? This is the holiday season and money becomes an issue especially during this time of year. No other Wii game screams "must-have." Again, no Xbox 360 games did at launch and no PS3 games do either.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Not quite. Nintendo is asking us to pay $250 for a Wii and everything you can do with that hardware. (And don't forget Wii Sports.) Initially it will be like you're paying $250 extra for nothing but the control changes, yes, but that isn't really the case. As soon as you start using your Wii for other things, be they other games, web browsing, or the news/weather features, you start spreading out that $250 cost. What you're really paying for, then, are the control changes, the Wii's standard features, Wii Sports, and the ability to play other Wii and virtual console games. As for the rest of the paragraph there, well, that really comes down to personal taste. And I've never argued that Wii-TP is, without exception, worth buying a Wii for. I myself wouldn't buy a Wii and Wii-TP at launch if I weren't reasonably sure there would be other games I'd buy as well before the first price drop, so I definitely realize that not everyone will be willing to buy a Wii until they can get more than just Wii-TP with it.[/color] [quote name='Charles']But yet, all of us here can admit that the controls in the Wii version will be pretty nifty but Zelda is not going to be the Wii's Nintendogs; it is not going to be the game that crosses the threshold and truly takes advantage of the system. In that sense, I see why some would give the Wii TP a lukewarm reception; they are looking for an immediate validation for their investment. But, you rarely find that at a launch for any system.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Exactly. I never expected Wii-TP to be an awesome Wii game; I expected it to be an awesome GCN game that takes advantage of some of the Wii's features.[/color] [quote name='Charles']Again, money. Perhaps you have a money tree in your back yard, I don't know. But, like I established earlier, Zelda is really the only title of significance releasing at launch. Perhaps it will not stop you from enjoying what motion control there is but I myself even wonder if the controls are worth all that money. Look at it from a consumer standpoint. $250 is a good portion of what it will take to buy an Xbox 360, which has several quality titles and Gears of War launching around the same time as Wii. There's also the shroud of the Gamecube version which plenty of people have already preordered. Wii will pick up momentum in due time but right out of the gate it is an alternative. When the same game is coming out on a pre-existing system, the Wii is not much of an alternative unless those controls make it one.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Well, as I've been saying all along, don't buy it if the investment isn't worth it to you. It's not like I'm trying to twist anyone's arm here. But for those of us who [i]will[/i] be buying Wii-TP there's no reason we shouldn't enjoy what motion sensor control there is.[/color] [quote name='Charles']They probably should have just cancelled the Gamecube version, which would have ended the conflict right there. Nintendo is competing with themselves and it is just a dumb, sloppy move.[/quote][color=#4B0082]I think that would only hurt them more. They'd been saying for years that the game would be released on the GCN and going back on that would be much worse than any delay. As it is, anyone with a GCN can still play the game, and anyone with a Wii has the option of using the new controls. I doubt the actual number of copies sold will be affected much this way, and while yes, getting Wiis into people's homes is important, I have to wonder if losing a big chunk of TP sales wouldn't do more damage than making TP Wii-exclusive would help.[/color] [quote=Charles]Nice try at spinning this, but you should have left that in your economics class. lol The Wii is the investment here and the cost is never really going to pan out because you're going to keep spending more. The satisfaction of the investment can only be measured in how much enjoyment you are getting out of the system. In the end, you're going to just keep spending money. The issue here is when exactly is it going to be worth spending that money. I don't think anyone is saying that Twilight Princess is a $300 game period. I don't think Alex or anyone else plans on buying a Wii for one game alone. In the context of the holiday season, however, the price of admission for Wii TP is $250 dollars. Again, whether that price is worth it or not is subjective, but people are going to have to consider whether it is worth paying $300 dollars to play Wii TP now, or saving money during the holidays by paying for the Gamecube version and waiting for exclusive killer apps to launch for the Wii.[/quote][color=#4B0082]I'm not trying to spin anything here, this is just how averages work. lol You buy a Wii and one game, your average cost per game is $300 ($250 + $50 = $300). You buy a Wii and two games, your average cost per game is $175 ($150/2 + $50 = $175). You buy three games and your average cost per game is $133.33 ($250/3 + $50 = $133.33). And so on. That initial $250 Wii allows you to play many games, not just one, so as you buy more games the total cost per game decreases as the $250 is split up between each game. Another way to get the average cost per game is to add up the costs of the hardware and all games, then divide that amount by the number of games. (($250 + $50 + $50 + $50)/3 = $400/3 = $133.33) You do bring up a valid point regarding limited money during the holiday season, but we already covered that earlier. Getting a Wii and Wii-TP at launch or at any other time is going to be worth it to some and not to others, for a variety of reasons, so you can't objectively say it is or isn't worth it.[/color] [quote name='Charles']You know, I'm not one for economics classes, but the DS launched with nothing I was interested in and when the games I was interested in did finally release, the system had dropped in price, saving me money. Go figure. I don't think that Wii will be as bad a case as the DS was though and we should be seeing more interesting games in a more timely fashion, at least.[/quote][color=#4B0082]You kind of hit a soft spot with this one. I ended up getting burned on my DS when I bought it only three months before the first price drop, with Mario 64 DS as my only game at the time. (Not to mention they also started packing Mario 64 in with the system.) But that was mostly due to Mario 64 DS turning out not to be worth the purchase for me; the controls didn't translate nearly as well to the touch screen as I thought they would. If I'd been satisfied with the game itself, though, I wouldn't have had much regret. But yes, I'm also more confident in the Wii delivering before the first price drop. And if not I'm going to be getting a few old favorites on the virtual console to keep me occupied in the mean time anyway. The first one I buy is going to be the real Super Mario 64. :p[/color] [quote name='Charles']I never buy a system until I can actually play those games.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Zelda, Mario, Metroid, and Smash Bros. have never led me astray yet.[/color] [quote name='Charles']Once again it is a $50 dollar game with a $250 admission ticket. If I am going to buy the system immediately and only have that one game to play on it for a while, it had better be a lot more enjoyable than the Gamecube version. Hopefully it is. Otherwise, there's no justification to jump right in.[/quote][color=#4B0082]That's exactly what I've been saying. If there's nothing else that interests you at launch, and you're not confident that there will be in the future, getting Wii-TP isn't a smart move. This isn't the Twilight Princess you're looking for. Move along.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']Considering that Nintendo made the decision to rush TP for the Wii launch so they could have something remotely resembling a killer app, I have every right to be as hard on them as I am. They put themselves out there for scrutiny and critical examination when they announced a Wii port nine months before launch. That right there is reason enough to be harder on them than usual, because that was a bone-headed move. Also considering that WiiTP is a first-party Zelda title for a new system...the fact that we're only getting the basics is boring and just not exciting at all. It's also embarrassing, to be honest.[/quote][color=#4B0082]You've got every right to criticize Wii-TP for things you dislike about it. But you don't have the right to tell other people what they should and shouldn't be excited about, or how they should or shouldn't spend their money. That's what I'm getting at here; you seem to be acting like your personal opinion of Wii-TP is fact and applies to everyone.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']If your standards are that low (no offense, don't mean this to sound as mean as it does), then by all means, go for it. But it's still a carrot designed to boost Wii sales. The good stuff is coming later, just like the DS. Super Mario 64 DS was the carrot back then. WiiTP is the carrot now. Neither were/are true killer apps. Super Mario 64 on N64 was a killer app. Super Mario World was a killer app. Super Mario Bros was a killer app. Even New Super Mario Bros was a killer app for DS Lite.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Don't worry, I'm not not the type to take a forum argument [i]that[/i] seriously. My standards aren't low, however, and neither am I simply taking the bait, so to speak. Like I said, I'd be buying a Wii for numerous other games besides Wii-TP, almost certainly before the first price drop. And seeing as I'm on a limited budget and will only have enough money for one console either before or after the holidays, I might as well get a Wii and Wii-TP at launch. I'm confident that I have nothing to lose by buying it at launch, so why shouldn't I?[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']Des, pointing to other games to try to broadly apply my point is a bad move, because WiiTP is not like other games. This isn't some regular development cycle of a game that's coming out in the middle of a console's life cycle. WiiTP, like Charles said, is the Wii launch. It was a late decision late in the development cycle that left little time to do anything substantial with the Wiimote features before WiiTP had to be on shelves. And because of that late decision, Nintendo painted themselves into a corner, so to speak: either delay WiiTP and lose pretty much Wii's launch, or release it with less than substantial Wiimote functionality and have gamers start questioning whether Wii is worth buying at launch, due to the gimmicky nature of its entire launch line-up. The most desirable option is never to announce a Wii version at all. This would have required significantly more planning ahead, however, because in addition to closely evaluating their options regarding WiiTP, they would have also had to make sure to have one or two killer apps at launch so they could fill the gap of WiiTP, as well as making sure the non-killer apps in the launch line-up make the system worth buying.[/quote][color=#4B0082]In the context of my argument the comparison is valid. The situation is exactly the same as with any other game in that there isn't enough time to include everything they'd like to. Thus, expecting everything you'd like is unrealistic. Simple as that. What you're getting into here is a bit beyond what I've been arguing, though. I don't presume to know what's best for Nintendo, or whether Wii-TP will help or hurt them in the long run. I may be able to make some slightly educated guesses, but I'm no expert. (And I kind of doubt you know much better than I do, but whatever.) So I can't really say anything either way about whether releasing Wii-TP is a good or bad move on Nintendo's part. But my point was that, as someone who's playing the games, getting Wii-TP as it is is better than nothing. Sure, it may not take full advantage of the controller, but you said yourself that most of the other games are gimmicky as well, so how is Wii-TP any worse? So long as it's more fun than the GCN version it can be worth it.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']So why even buy at launch? 3/5 of those games aren't even coming until 2007, and we both know there are going to be major deals later on, probably even as early as Q2 next year...I'd imagine right in time for Metroid and/or Smash Bros Brawl. If you'd only be getting WiiTP at launch, why spend 300 right there? Realistically, what is so needed at launch that you couldn't get for better later? This is one of the questions I asked myself.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Again, arguing from assumption. You're assuming there will be a price drop or something before SSBB and the rest of the big titles are released, yet we have zero information to support that. Personally, I'd be really surprised if they dropped the price of the Wii so soon after launch, especially when it's already cheaper than both of the other consoles. So, if the price doesn't drop, I stand to gain the control changes in Wii-TP. If the price does drop I'll have lost maybe $50. I'm fairly confident that I'll be buying more than just Wii-TP before the first price drop, so that's a risk I'm willing to take.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']You made another mistake before that one. I'm not justifying anything by bashing WiiTP. I made the decision a while ago, and I went through a pretty bizarre decision process before arriving at said decision. Charles can confirm this. My reasoning I've been stating here came before my decision to pass on Wii until I can get my hands on Metroid. There's no justification, because it's only a justification if the thought process comes after the decision in question. Which it doesn't. So I'm not trying to justify anything for myself here.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Fair enough. But if that's not the case, then I have to ask, why [i]are[/i] you trying to dictate my preferences to me?[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']Des, when have you known me to consider the very idea of an opinion, especially when I know I have a very clear and realistic view on a topic, and when I know that you agree with me in the first place?[/quote][color=#4B0082]Wait, let me get this straight. Just because an opinion is realistic and others agree with it, it's automatically an objective fact? Correct me if that's not what you meant (the above sentence is worded kind of confusingly), but sorry, no. Saying that SSBM's control scheme is perfect, or close to perfect, is an opinion because it cannot be proven or disproven. If you got a large enough sample group together to play SSBM you'd find people who would prefer and play better with alternate control schemes, just like some people use the C Stick for smash attacks and others don't. This would imply that there is no single best control scheme. On a related note, why do you think so many PC games allow you to map keys however you like? They acknowledge that there is no perfect control scheme so they let you customize it to your liking.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']Careful, Des. I don't think it's the best way because I like that way best. I like that way best because it's the best way. It all comes down to efficiency. My assessment of the controller is a matter of efficiency before personal taste. And the GCN controller, as we have both illustrated, is the most efficient controller for Smash Bros.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Efficient does not equal perfect. Perfect means that the given control scheme is the best it can ever be, for everyone and without condition. Efficient simply means that the control scheme isn't any more complicated than it has to be.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']Are you kidding? You've mapped the C-stick controls to the motion sensor. Do your hands stay perfectly still the entire match? Does anyone's hands stay perfectly still the entire match? Smash Bros is a game that depends on precision and speed. All you need is one of the typical "oh holy crap" arm jerks and your character just got smashed out of the arena because no matter what those hard, fast movements would be, they just totally interrupted your attack sequence. You just helped prove my point, Des: It is impossible for the Wiimote to handle Smash Bros with the same type of precision and accuracy in a typical, fast and heated match as we see with the GCN controller.[/quote][color=#4B0082]No, my hands don't remain perfectly still while playing SSBM. But they certainly don't make fast, sudden movements either. I don't mean this as an insult or anything, but if yours do, I think you need to work on your scare reflex. lol Also, if the developers were smart about it, they'd let you disable the feature or remap it as you wish, maybe even set the sensitivity yourself. Even in SSBM the C stick is completely unnecessary and I never use it.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']The only reason your your accuracy and weapon proficiency matters is because of how blazing fast Time Crisis requires you to be...since it's a lightgun game.[/quote][color=#4B0082]I'm starting to wonder if you're purposely dodging the point here. Never did I say your accuracy matters; that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand. The point is that [i]aiming with a gun is a different experience than using a joystick[/i].[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']The experience itself will only be different if the game itself is changed.[/quote][color=#4B0082]This is where you're wrong. Dictionary.com defines "experience" as, "1. a particular instance of personally encountering or undergoing something". [i]Personally,[/i] as in you yourself, not the character in the game. What happens on screen in the game is not the whole experience; it also includes your physical actions taken in interacting with the game. Thus, aiming a lightgun or the Wii remote is a different experience than using a joystick. Seriously, is this really that hard to understand? The entire philosphy behind the Wii is built on this premise. The motion sensors and pointers are supposed to be a new, [i]different,[/i] and easier ways to interact with--i.e. experience--games.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']That strictly physical change is not fundamental. It's altering a window-dressing. You're still taking all the time that you want to kill regular ranged and stationary enemies. There's still zero urgency. Plus, I sincerely doubt aiming with the bow is going to require such a huge change in how you move. Regular people won't be using their entire arms. Regular people will probably be barely using their forearms. The Wiimote is all about the wrist action...like in Charles' banner.[/quote][color=#4B0082]So you're saying a change in the way you interact with the game isn't a fundamental change, yet increasing the speed of enemies is? That's a seriously incorrect use of the word "fundamental." [url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fundamental][u]fundamental[/u][/url] "1. serving as, or being an essential part of, a foundation or basis; basic; underlying: [i]fundamental principles; the fundamental structure.[/i]" A change in the play control, going from a joystick to pointer control, is a fundamental change. That is, it changes the way you control the game from the ground up. The joystick and the pointer have nothing in common other than that they're both being used to aim. A change in the speed of enemies is not a fundamental change. They're the same enemies, they simply move faster. That's tweaking a few variables in what is otherwise the same basic enemy.[/color]

[quote name='Papa Smurf']Because I'd prefer totally original launch titles or at least titles that utilize the Wiimote in more than three or four ways. And anyway, as it stands, 90% of the launch list is comprised of bizarre port-jobs, Desi. Why do you think I'm waiting for Metroid?[/quote][color=#4B0082]And your point is. . . ? This answered the bit you quoted but completely ignored the rest of the paragraph. I think we'd all prefer a control scheme that takes better advantage of the Wii's controller. You obviously would, and I'm in the same boat. But that has absolutely nothing to do with a comparison between GCN-TP and Wii-TP. I mean, I'd also like Wii-TP to be free and packed in with the system instead of Wii Sports. That's not happening, but it doesn't mean Wii-TP isn't worth buying, just like Wii-TP not taking better advantage of the controller doesn't mean it isn't worth buying. Looking at what we [i]are[/i] getting, Wii-TP has some advantages that will make it worth more than GCN-TP to some people.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']That's the thing, Des. I was going to get a Wii at launch. You saw how much I was looking at spending. It was a hair under 450. And included in that list was WiiTP. Of course I want the motion sensor and pointer functionality. But if I'm going to be dropping almost 500 dollars on Wii, I want that motion sensor and pointer functionality to do more than three or four things. And so far, only three or four things are precisely what 90% of the launch titles are offering, which, personal opinion aside, is entirely not worth 400-500 dollars.[/quote][color=#4B0082]So don't buy a Wii if Wii-TP alone isn't worth it. I've been saying all along, Wii-TP by itself is really not enough to warrent buying a Wii for. But that's no reason to say Wii-TP is not worth buying at all. For those who are going to be buying a Wii for other games as well, such as I, Wii-TP is plenty worth buying.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']If they're just my "idealistic notions", answer me this. Would you disagree with what I see the first real Wii Zelda implementing? Close to 1:1 swordplay? Bow-hunting where we're no longer using targeting reticles and where we're drawing the string back because the velocity and distance of the arrows will be based on proper bow handling? Are you saying you wouldn't love to see that? You, of all people? Are you saying that whipping the Wiimote around for the boomerang isn't something you'd much prefer over selecting targets a la traditional Zeldas? Or what about activating Din's Fire (or any other magic spell) by using the Wiimote like a scepter and swirling it around in different patterns for different spells? Before you decide to call me so idealistic, take a look at what I see in the first true Wii Zelda and ask yourself if you'd be so opposed to any of it.[/quote][color=#4B0082]What I think will happen and what I'd like to see happen have little or nothing to do with what actually happens. Personally, I'd love to see a lot of the things you mentioned there, but Nintendo is going to make the game how they think is best regardless. You can't just assume, "It's going to be like this," and base your arguments off that; it's an extremely shaky foundation. Just because I happen to share a lot of the same idealistic notions as you doesn't mean they're correct.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']Yes, because "nothing to get excited about" means exactly that: nothing to get excited about. And "a boring port-job" means exactly that: it's a boring port-job. Where did I even imply the game would be mediocre?[/quote][color=#4B0082]Oh, I don't know, maybe with the words, "nothing to get excited about," and, "boring"? I don't know about you, but I'd use the word mediocre to describe something unexciting and even boring. The fact is, there are a lot of people out there excited about using the Wii controller for TP, and all you've been offering as to why they shouldn't be is, "I'm not excited so you shouldn't be either." So what if the motion sensor control won't be as expansive as the first Zelda designed specifically for the Wii? Why should that stop me from enjoying what motion control there is?[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']I don't have any doubts the controls will control well, Desi. But for a flagship Zelda title on a new console, they're boring as hell...because they're just the basics.[/quote][color=#4B0082]So basically you're saying they should have been done Wii-TP all or nothing? Fully integrate the new controller into every possible action it could work well for or not release Wii-TP at all? That's a completely unrealistic expectation. I mean, do you realize that if game design took this approach nothing would ever be released? So many interviews with game developers include the question, "Is there anything you wished you could've included in the game but didn't have time for?" and almost all of them state that yes, there's always more that they wished to include but lacked time for. This is one of those situations. I'm sure they could delay TP yet again to include more Wii controller functionality, but missing the system's launch, and the holiday sales window, would hurt them far more than the extra features would help.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']To paraphrase an old high school friend who'd chastised himself for buying an Xbox solely for Deathrow, WiiTP would be a 300 dollar game then.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Wii-TP will only be a $300 game if you don't ever buy any other games for the Wii. Adding a second game makes Wii-TP a $175 game; a third makes it $133.33; a fourth makes it $112.50, and so on. As you buy more games, the fixed cost of the Wii gets spread out across them, lowering the average fixed cost. (Holy crap, I'm actually using something I learned in my economics class!) So, like I've been saying this entire time, Wii-TP is not worth it if you don't plan on buying other games. But if you do there is no reason not to buy Wii-TP instead of GCN-TP since you'll be buying a Wii anyway.[/color] [quote=Papa Smurf]What other games would you have been buying? Were you going to get the system first, regardless of the games? There it sounds like you'd decided to purchase the system before deciding on any Wii games. And like I said (and like you've known), I was originally totally sold on Wii and WiiTP, and I'd even figured on picking up Marvel Ultimate Alliance, including an extra Wiimote/nunchuck and a memory stick. But then I started wondering why I'd really want Marvel UA, especially without four controllers. So out that went. Then WiiTP would have become that 300-dollar game.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Before Wii-TP was ever announced I planned on buying a Wii for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy, FFCC: The Crystal Bearers, and possibly Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. And I still plan on buying those as they're released and I can afford them. Wii-TP will simply be the only game I buy at launch, not the only game I ever buy. And I never buy a system before deciding what games I want for it. I simply don't have the money to do that and risk ending up with something I regret. The games make me buy the system, not the other way around. So don't buy it if it's going to be a $300 game. I've been saying that all along. What I've also been saying, however, is that Wii-TP is [i]not[/i] a $300 game for people who are buying other Wii games as well, and therefore it is worth the purchase over GCN-TP.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']You'd be right if I'd actually made a choice to buy the GCN version. Right now I'm not particularly interested in either version. In fact, I cancelled my GCN TP pre-order when it was delayed the first time. I've not since looked into pre-ordering it again.[/quote][color=#4B0082]My mistake. Insert the word "preference" in place of "choice" and it still works, though.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']I was talking about how close to perfect SSBM's controls are. They're precise as hell. They hold up beautifully in casual and competitive play (and still hold up today, almost five years after release). Or would you disagree with that? It seems to me that if you agree that the SSBM controls are generally close to perfect and extremely precise, you can't really get on me for something you'd agree with in the first place, which makes your above excerpt just a tad misguided here.[/quote][color=#4B0082]You're saying I can't recognize a statement as a personal opinion simply because I happen to agree with it? I don't even know how that's supposed to make sense. Yes, I like SSBM's controls. Yes, I think they're about as close to perfect as they can get. Yes, I wouldn't like it if they made you use the Wii remote. I agree with you on every count, but notice all of the "I"s in there? They reflect my personal tastes, [i]not[/i] an objective standard of quality. Saying, "I like this way the best, therefore it is the best way," is completely illogical.[/color] [quote=Papa Smurf]Here's where you've got a flaw, Des: *snip*[/quote][color=#4B0082]You're just repeating something we both know: The GCN controller works well for SSBM. You say nothing about why the Wii controller is bad for SSBM, however; only that it's good for FPSs and adventure games.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']...give me a control scheme on the Wiimote that could function in a fast and furious Smash Bros Brawl match with the same kind of precision and accuracy we see in SSBM on the GCN controller.[/quote][color=#4B0082]GCN --> Wii Control stick --> Nunchuck control stick A button --> A button B button --> B button X/Y buttons --> Control cross down L/R buttons --> Nunchuk Z button Z button -- > Nunchuk C button C stick --> Remote motion sensor (hard, fast movements up/down/left/right) Control cross up --> Control cross up There you go; SSBM's control scheme mapped perfectly to the remote and nunchuk. And from there you can make more use of the motion sensors however you see fit.[/color] [quote=Papa Smurf] Time Crisis? lol. You do realize my years of arcade shooting were exclusively Time Crisis 1, 2, and 3? And that I've had plenty of playtime with the home versions?[/quote][color=#4B0082]That's nice. But I'm afraid the number of hours you've played means jack squat in this argument, so you can stop trying to impress me. :p[/color] [quote=Papa Smurf]But if you want to try to use Time Crisis as an example...the arcade is still the only suitable place to play Time Crisis, Desi. *snip* Had they designed the Guncon better, you might have seen better performance out of the Guncon.[/quote][color=#4B0082]You completely and utterly missed the point. Home and arcade versions have nothing to do with this, neither does the quality of Guncons, and the speed of the game doesn't either. The point is, the [i]physical actions taken[/i] in playing Time Crisis with a lightgun is radically different from the actions taken with a joystick. In the first case, you're physically taking aim with the gun and your accuracy depends on how well you can aim and steady the gun, whereas in the second case all you're doing is twiddling your thumbs around until the cursor moves over where you want to shoot.[/color] [quote=Papa Smurf]Plus, Time Crisis is a shooting game. It originated as a shooting game. The speed of the game is much too fast to be accurate with a joystick. This isn't the case with the Zelda series. Zelda has always been a very methodical game where enemies and puzzle targets would frequently stay in one place to let you shoot them at your leisure. The gameplay of WiiTP is no different. The ranged enemies were staying in one spot the entire time. Until they change the game itself, it won't matter if we're using a joystick or Wiimote, which is why changing from the joystick to a Wiimote in TP is not a fundamental change in play control. If they take a few cues from something like Time Crisis? A game that depends on speed, accuracy, and a (good) lightgun? Then we'll see those fundamental changes in play control. Until then, we're still playing traditional Zelda with traditional approaches...whether we're using the Wiimote or a joystick.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Again, the ability to play Time Crisis well with a joystick was never brought up and is irrelevant to the argument. The argument isn't that you will do any better or worse at Time Crisis or TP because of the different control schemes, it's that the [i]experience itself[/i] will be different. I think the problem here is that you're talking about both fundamental control changes [i]and[/i] game design changes. These two do not have to happen together, which is the case with Wii-TP. The fundamental play control--the way you aim, using the pointer instead of a joystick, just like using a lightgun instead of a joystick--has changed, whereas the game itself--enemies being as slow as ever--has remained the same. So yes, Wii-TP will be the same game, but you manner in which you physically interact with it will be vastly different.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]James made a lot of the same points I was going to, so there's not a ton left for me to say. But there are a few things here I'd like to respond to.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']Because it's a port. It's not a Zelda game designed for the Wii from the ground-up. I don't know why you're having such a hard time grasping this, Desi.[/quote][color=#4B0082]So what if it's a port? Why does that matter at all? The fact is, Wii-TP will have some Wii controller functionality, and if that makes the game more fun than the GCN version then Wii-TP is worth buying instead of GCN-TP. Maybe not enough to warrent buying a Wii if you weren't going to get one anyway, but comparing directly between GCN-TP and Wii-TP, Wii-TP is going to come out on top for people who want the motion sensor and pointer functionality. The problem here is that you're trying to compare Wii-TP to your idealistic notions of what the first real Wii Zelda will be like even though we have absolutely [i]no[/i] information about the game. Compared to that, of course Wii-TP is going to fall short. But doing so is moot because we don't know what the Wii Zelda game will be like. It could end up playing worse than Wii-TP for all we know, and in that case the new Zelda would be nothing to get excited about while Wii-TP would be the best there is.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']I never once implied that WiiTP is going to suck because it's a port.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Yes, you really did. You said that Wii-TP is, "nothing to get excited about," and, "a boring port-job." That implies the port will be mediocre at best. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that's what you said. Incidentally, unless the control changes actually make the game [i]worse[/i] than GCN-TP, people have as much or more reason to be excited about Wii-TP as they are about GCN-TP. In other words, unless the changes are detrimental to the game, excitement can only go up.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']If I buy TP, I'm buying it for GCN, because apparently I can tell the difference between bait and a real treat. lol[/quote][color=#4B0082]Wii-TP may very well be bait, to try and move more systems, but that's no reason to pass over the game. I want to play TP with the Wii controller functionality, and I'm going to get a Wii anyway, so why shouldn't I buy Wii-TP? Both GCN-TP and Wii-TP are "real treats." You said it yourself, Wii-TP is a port of GCN-TP; at their core, they're the same game, so why would one be a treat and not the other? Unless you honestly believe Wii-TP's control scheme is going to be detrimental to the game, you're doing nothing here but bashing Wii-TP to try and justify your choice of the GCN version.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']Pardon me, Des, but how in the hell do you make that kind of leap? lol[/quote][color=#4B0082]I can make that comparison because the situations are actually very similar; you'd see that if you'd look at the point I'm making rather than a bunch of extraneous details that have little or nothing to do with the actual point. You're saying Wii-TP is boring because it doesn't have enough Wii controller functionality; to quote yourself, "because it'll still be a current-gen Zelda game." Yet SSBB is going to be exactly the same way. It's not using the Wii controller at all, meaning there's most likely nothing in SSBB that couldn't be done on the GCN, short of graphical quality. (And before you try to use that, remember that you said, "I don't give two shats about visual improvements.") By your standards, then, wouldn't you consider SSBB a current-gen game and therefore boring? Your argument applies equally to both games. Now, before you repeat yourself, here's why your example of the current SSBM control scheme already being near perfect has no bearing on the argument:[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf]Regarding Smash Bros Brawl on the other hand? If they didn't use the GCN controllers [b]I'd be annoyed[/b], because [b]as far as I'm concerned[/b], SSBM had a damn near perfect control scheme using the GCN controllers. The game itself simply [b]would not benefit[/b'] from the Wiimote like Wii Zelda would.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Take notice of the parts I've bolded. The first two are undeniably personal opinions, yet you then try to use those as a base for a statement of fact. That doesn't work. So, [i]in your opinion[/i] the game would not benefit from use of the remote, therefore [i]you think[/i] the current control scheme is perfect. You cannot speak for others, however; I'm sure there's at least one person out there who would like to use the remote to play SSBB. Seeing as there is no right answer to a question of personal preference such as this, you cannot use your conclusion--that the current control scheme is perfect--as the basis for your argument.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf]In short, I criticize WiiTP because [u]I think[/u'] it's an example of the Wiimote being unnecessarily utilized.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Fixed.[/color] [quote name='Papa Smurf']Simply transferring control of the targeting reticle from a joystick to the Wiimote is not a fundamental change to play control.[/quote][color=#4B0082]So there's no real difference between using a lightgun and an analog stick in a game like Time Crisis? That's absurd and you know it.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]The [url=http://www.nintendowifi.com/customersupport/SupportHome.jsp][u]tech support[/u][/url] page on NintendoWiFi.com should have all the info you need to set up your DS's wifi connection.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]In that case I have to question why he'd say it's not worth getting on the Wii. If TP is the [i]only[/i] game you'd buy for the Wii in the foreseeable future, then obviously the Wii version isn't for you, but otherwise you might as well pick it up instead of the GCN version. (Unless you think you'd prefer the classic control style, obviously.) It may not make as much use of the new controller as a Wii-specific Zelda game would, but that doesn't make the game any worse in and of itself; on the contrary, I think things like shooting the bow with the pointer and doing spin attacks with the motion sensor will only improve the game. Personally, just being able to shoot the bow using the pointer is enough to make me want the Wii version. So I think there's plenty to be excited about.[/color]

[QUOTE=Papa Smurf]And either way, I'll still be laughing because TP on Wii is nothing to get excited about anyway, seeing as how it's nothing but a boring port-job. The only Zelda on Wii in my mind is the Zelda game made specifically for Wii.[/QUOTE][color=#4B0082]You say that like TP is going to suck simply because it's a ported GCN game. Even if it doesn't use the Wii controller's features as extensively as a Zelda game developed specifically for the Wii TP is still going to be an awesome game. Or do you seriously think Nintendo has wasted three years developing a boring game, all the while touting it as the best Zelda yet? I mean, you're not going to fault SSBB for using GCN controllers, are you? In that respect it's in the same boat as TP yet I don't see you calling it boring.[/color]

[quote name='Papa Smurf']Don't read into the awful translation and misplaced grammar.[/quote][color=#4B0082]I'm going to laugh so hard if, when TP is released, it turns out I was right.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]Oh snap! Our secret love affair has been revealed! . . . Oh well, I guess it will be a simple matter to ban you all. :shifty: Awesome job on this whole thing, Charles. I remember reading Act I when you first posted it, but I guess I never got around to commenting. I also remember thinking, "Whoa, this reads eerily similar to Shakespeare." Which, I gotta say, seemed funky at first due to it being an OB-themed piece, but it's turned out to fit exceedingly well. More incest plz. :animenose[/color]

[quote name='Samgee Gamwise][font=Comic Sans MS']Dude... you're evil. :animesigh[/font][/quote][color=#4B0082]Yeah, but you know you still love me. :smooch: So I guess this means the thread is back onto the first page. That must suck for regular visitors to the OL. Bwahahaha![/color]

[color=#4B0082]So I was doing a Fissure of Woe run with some guildies about a week ago. The FoW is one of the end game PvE areas and, with a few exceptions in the Underworld, the only place you can get [url=http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Chaos_Axe][u]chaos axes[/u][/url]. As you can see, they look pretty awesome, the skin is rare, and 15^50 ones are worth quite a bit. So guess what popped out of a chest for me on that FoW run. :toothy: [img]http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8599/gwchaosaxetj8.gif[/img] I ended up selling this baby for 100k + 3 ectos yesterday. The moral of the story? You, too, can be a rich bastard if you remember to bring keys along in end game PvE zones.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]The last game I bought was Guild Wars Factions, but that's a PC game. Otherwise it would also be Animal Crossing: Wild World, which I got just a little while after it was released in the US. Yeah, I really have only bought two games so far this year. It makes me sad too. I still play ACWW off and on, but not nearly as much as I did when I first got the game. I mainly play when other people are also active in the game so I can visit their villages over the net.[/color]