Horendithas

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='BKstyles;792236][FONT="Tahoma"]*sticks tongue out at Crystia and pokes her*. [/FONT][/QUOTE]Grabs Matt and... [spoiler]Like I would actually tell you! LOL[/spoiler][quote name='Sandy'']Sorry for the misunderstanding, I just hope that from now on people would write about the characters' misadventures at the Ragnarok instead of their old lives. ;D[/quote]That's exactly what I intend to do, everyone who has been posted about so far is in my opinion, in the Ragnarok, and that's how I intend to post about them. ;)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Sandy'][B]EDIT:[/B] People, what are you doing? What's with all these NPCs and real-life events? The mortal souls should've been transported to the Ragnarok already, but instead you just write about their lives before it... Wasn't this clear enough from the guidelines I gave and my examples? :/ Like in the previous parts of this series, there are [I]no other people[/I] other than the 16 chosen souls inside the Ragnarok (the "gameboard" of the gods). Now you're wasting good interaction to NPCs when the characters should instead be interacting with each other...[/QUOTE]Feh! Then Paraxis should not have said this: "They will wake up separated from each other, finding themselves in a room from their memories. What lies beyond that room, no-one can foretell." Everyone has them in a room from their memories, you didn't say nothing else would be going on. I got the impression that the moment they left that room of 'memories' was when they would be entering The Ragnarok, like how Rach did it with the guy who worked at the bar. He was confronted by Celesta as he went from the last memory he had into the Ragnarok. *pokes Sandy* That's how I've been writing my posts as well. Naomi was reliving her last memory before she was taken and that room she was in was at work where she was confronted by her ex boyfriend. The moment she ran out the doors, she ran into the Ragnarok. :p At least that is how my reasoning is going. I can't say with Matt since he did not end his post in that manner. *pokes Matt as well*[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='The13thMan'][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Free speech is about saying whatever the hell you damn well want. If that's "mouthing off in an attempt to look smart" then so be it. Too many people these days have mixed and greatly hypocritical views on the rights of the American citizen. Free speech does [B]not[/B] mean you can say whatever you want as long as it's nice or agrees with popular points of view. This is the case for other rights of Americans, but that's not for this discussion. I just have a problem when people don't realize the hyprocrisy of what they say. I'm not talking about anybody in specific though, so don't get me wrong. =D [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]He could have easily addressed all those points without being rude. lol And yet still fall into the free speech bit just fine. Don't confuse being a jackass and speaking your mind with freedom of speech. In this case he could have been the better man instead of making a point of being rude. That's not hypocrisy, but rather being smart enough to openly criticize someone without looking stupid in the process. Personally, I really don't care, like Retribution said, it was doomed to be a Amadinejad hate-fest from the onset. I just find it ironic that other nations consider themselves better and yet can't manage to be more polite than the guest they invited to come and be a part of the whole deal. lol[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Shy'][size=1]And yes, Christopher Francis is a terrible, troubled man. Gotta make use of that M-rating, you know? -Shy[/size][/QUOTE]Heh, by the time we get done, all of them will be terrible and troubled. Your power card will certainly help to make that a reality. :p Now we just need Sandy to sign in again so we can find out of our newest posts earned any points. I am eager to obtain a death card and begin the slaughter. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][SIZE="1"]Jared had ignored the proceedings at the Council Center in favor of checking out the details and records of the new Sub-Commander assigned to the [I]Creator[/I], Vallon Drace. Especially since he had not been the one to decide to promote him to serve as his second in command. That order had come from elsewhere when the previous Sub-Commander had been called to serve in another position instead. Jared didn't know why he was transfered and on some level he did not care. What did matter was understanding more about the new Sub-Commander, if only to ascertain just what his skills were. There were some interesting notes in his file, seemed that he was a bit [I]aggressive[/I] and perhaps a bit overconfident as well. It was hard to know without meeting him directly. That would happen soon enough as the envoy sent to pick him up had already signaled that they were on their way to drop him off. There was one thing that did concern him just a tiny bit in regards to his assigned duties. It was the job of the Sub-Commander to oversee any slaves who were working on a ship. He would need to make sure that this Drace understood the circumstance surrounding Celestia and Jason. Since Drace had been serving as the Sub-Commander on the Battleship Baron under the command of Commander Sergei Bale, he was most likely use to standard methods of dealing with slaves. Jared toyed with the thought of talking to Sandra about having those two answer directly to her instead. As much as he would enjoy tormenting the two, both Celestia and Jason, he knew better than to counter the wishes of the High Council. So taking up that task himself was not an option. In the end he decided it would simply be best to inform Drace of what was expected and then keep an eye on him. "[B]Sir,[/B]" one of the officers on the bridge approached his location. Jared looked up from the file he had been reading to see what they wanted. "[B]All supplies and transfers other than the arrival of the new Sub-Commander are complete. Your orders sir?[/B]" "[B]Maintain our current position until further notice.[/B]" Jared replied. "[B]Understood sir,[/B]" He bowed and then turned to head back to his station. Jared watched him go and then glanced down at his screen as a soft chime indicated he had an incoming transmission. It was from Fleet Admiral Stevens and he opened it without hesitation. "[B]It seems we have a problem Jared.[/B]" Stevens said, looking displeased. "[B]I've just received word that the Resistance managed to seize the [I]Eclipse[/I]. It was not headed here as ordered but instead to sector nine where it has now been renamed the [I]Liberator[/I] and drafted into their fleet.[/B]" "[B]How did that happen? And why did we not hear of this sooner?[/B]" Jared was surprised, seizing a flagship intact would have to mean that there had been traitors on board the ship. And even then... "[B]I don't have all the details yet, most of the crew is still missing, regardless, I want you to alter the intended plans for our next move to compensate for the loss of the [I]Eclipse[/I], since we will only be taking the [I]Creator [/I]and the [I]Conqueror[/I].[/B]" Jared nodded, "[B]Understood, I'll start rearranging the ship assignments immediately. Anything else?[/B]" Stevens just shook his head and then terminated the transmission. Jared pulled up the details for where they would be striking in force first. It wouldn't be too hard to shuffle resources to accommodate the loss of the flagship but still, it wasn't going to make them look very creditable to have lost one of the ships without a fight. [I]I wonder who was behind that operation? [/I] With a tiny smile he started taking a look at how he could allocate the remaining space forces. He could find out who had been responsible later, though he was willing to bet that it had to have been either the elusive William or Daniel Landers. [/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][SIZE="1"]"[B]I merely mean to say that you let your emotions rule your judgement.[/B]" Jachym snickered a bit at Telumas's statement, and then even more so as she continued on to glorify the aspects of the hunt. Even she was not immune to letting her [I]emotions [/I]rule her judgment as she had just accused Celesta of doing. Clearly, seeing the truth was something she did not share with her brother Raone. He turned his attention back to the souls who were still being awakened. [CENTER][IMG]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c323/SamSandy/Ragnarok/ragnarok-soul-naomi.png[/IMG] [/CENTER] Naomi Gallo looked up in time to see her ex boyfriend entering the store where she was working. With an inward groan she contemplated simply leaving her post to hide in the employee lounge until he left. But a customer with a bunch of clothing approached her station, ready to purchase their goods and leave. With a fake bright smile she turned to help them, chatting politely while doing her best to ignore the fool who was approaching. [I]Please let him have the sense to wait until I'm done before he opens his big mouth. [/I] But no such luck today. "[B]Naomi![/B]" His shrill voice rang out, drawing everyone's attention to the slightly tipsy young man. "[B]How can you be such a bitch![/B]" With a wince Naomi handed the customer her receipt and credit card, wishing her a good day before turning to face Nathan who was almost to her location. Out of the corner of her eye she could see the customer hastily making a retreat and she couldn't blame her. "[B]You need to leave Nathan.[/B]" She said coldly as he finally stopped within arms reach. But he would not hear it and when he grabbed her arms roughly, she realized with alarm that he was more than just a little tipsy. "[B]Leave?[/B]" He said as he glared at her, gripping her arms tightly. "[B]After all I've done for you? You can't use someone like that and just cast them aside.[/B]" "[B]Let me go Nathan, you're hurting me.[/B]" Naomi said quietly. "[B]I mean it, you need to leave. We can discuss this later.[/B]" She yelped in pain when he tightened his grip and leaned in a bit. "[B]No! I didn't take the time to come here only to discuss it later.[/B]" Nathan growled as he started to drag her towards the back of the store. "[B]We'll discuss this now.[/B]" [I]Why me?[/I] Naomi thought as she struggled to pull free. [I]At this rate the fool is going to get me fired![/I] They had only gone a few steps when her manager appeared, a clear look of disapproval on her face. [I]Oh hell![/I] "[B]I'm going to have to ask you to leave sir. If you have something to discuss with Miss Gallo you'll have to wait until after her shift is over.[/B]" But Nathan's answer was to let go of Naomi with one hand and to shove her manager aside. "[B]Stay out of it bitch![/B]" Furious, Naomi struck out, slapping Nathan hard with her left hand, rocking his head to the side. A move, that as soon as he turned to face her angrily, she knew was a mistake. [I]Oh my God! He's completely lost it![/I] It was the reason she had left him, when he was drunk, he was mean and hateful. It didn't seem to matter how many times he promised to do better, and when he had struck her several times she had broken things off. Within moments she found herself struggling to get free as he backhanded her, and only his grip on her right wrist kept her from falling over from the force of the blow. Desperately she brought her right foot down in his left foot since he was only wearing sandals. Then as he stumbled a bit she brought her knee up to hit him squarely between the legs. Wincing as she did so, but it was enough that even in his drunken state he finally loosened his grasp enough for her to pull free. With a sob she turned and ran as fast as she could for the front door of the store, terrified by what had just happened. In all the time they had dated, he had never struck someone else or been that angry before. [I]What do I do?[/I] She wondered as the automatic doors opened up as she approached them. She ran into the white light of the sunlight outside. [/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][SIZE="1"]Jachym eyes narrowed just a bit at Raone observation of the unjustness of the game and yet he still calmly admitted to giving into the temptation of the game for the sake of righteousness. [I]Fool, in the end it is power that always wins.[/I] He thought with contempt. "[B]Perhaps we should just watch on, my dear comrades.[/B]" Raone insisted. "[B]Something you do well Raone, you'll need more than observation for this game.[/B]" Jachym observed with a disdainful hint in his voice. He glanced at the cards on the table, taking note of the powers that each one of his brethren had chosen. It would require careful planning and cunning for each card could easily bring their downfall upon them. For now he would keep his thoughts to himself. Even Raone could be fooled if done correctly. He looked to each one who was standing around the table, carefully weighing just what he would be up against. Even if on some level they were attuned to how the other would react there was still the element of the unknown and surprise to be had. A slow smile spread across Jachym's face. It would be entertaining to see who won the game, he had always favored those who were powerful and helped themselves instead of relying on the strengths of others. [CENTER][IMG]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c323/SamSandy/Ragnarok/ragnarok-soul-ash.png[/IMG][/CENTER] Warm sunlight poured in through the cracks of the blinds that were pulled down in the bedroom of the beach house. Slowly but surely they spread across the room until they came to rest in the eyes of the youth who was still sprawled across the bed. Half under the covers and sound asleep without a care in the world. With a groan Ash rolled over in an attempt to hide from the light but it was too late as other needs brought to home that it was time to get up. Stretching broadly he kicked the covers off and stumbled into the bathroom to take a moment to get cleaned up before coming back out and getting dressed in his usual swim shorts, light tee shirt and sandals. Ash smiled at the lingering scent of vanilla as he made a token attempt to make up the bed before going over and opening the blinds. As always the view of the ocean and beach was beautiful, even more so at night when the sun was setting. The only question in his mind as he left the bedroom to grab a bite to eat was to wonder who would be sharing that sunset with him this time. [I]Nothing like having rich parents who don't care if you do nothing but live in the beach house and play all day.[/I] Ash didn't care if others called him a beach bum. Why work when some other fool who actually needs money can do it? That would be unkind of him to deprive some poor soul of a job when he had no need for money. Then since it would be a while before any ladies showed up at the beach, he grabbed his surf board and made for the front door of the beach house to catch some waves to pass the time. He paused only long enough to put some suntan lotion on before he was out the door.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial][I]WOO-HOOO!!![/I] [U]Yeah[/U], bay-bee! That was awesome! (I'm jumping right now; forgive me if I misspell something.) Okay, for those of you who are staring at the screen going "ri-i-ight", that was the [I]Díes írae[/I] and the [I]Offertorium[/I] from [I]Masses for the Dead[/I], an old mass sung in the Gregorian Chant style somewhere back between 450 and 1450 AD. /snip/ Loved the FX. No joke. W00t! (^_^) [/FONT][/QUOTE]Allamorph jumping? Now there's a thought. lol Anyway, a rather interesting idea that you thought of. Though I had to look up just what the hell you two were doing, since I am not familiar with Gregorian Chants obviously. Heh. Now I'm curious to see just how the Count reacts to that. I would imagine it just might annoy him a bit. Also, I'm being dense here but loved the FX? Though once you say just what that means I'm going to feel silly when I realize that it was obvious. lol Anyway, no wonder you pestered Rach for that idea. :p And even if I'm not into music, well, not that type anyway... It is a nice touch and definitely does make for interesting story telling. :)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Matt']Ah, but then the debate leads to if providing a link to a page that doesn't have hentai images per say but has links leading to pages with such material is in violation of the rules![/QUOTE]That one picture there [B]is [/B]hentai though so the argument is pointless. Even if it is an old painting/woodblock image, it still doesn't belong here. So the page has both, older art and links to more current art. And in the end... how hard is it to simply use google to find what you want? [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Matt']What adult images? Last I checked, Wikipedia does not permit such images, and besides, the said article doesn't contain any adult images to begin with. Unless you count that old painting an adult image.[/QUOTE]Exactly. I'd hardly call that kid friendly. lol If it weren't an old painting it wouldn't be there. ;) Oh and try actually following some of the links provided at the wiki article, they do go to pictures that would not be allowed here. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"]^ Responses like that is why Google is your friend. As for the question: [INDENT][B]Hentai[/B] (変態 or へんたい) is a Japanese word that can be used to mean "metamorphosis" or "abnormality". In Japan "hentai" has a strong negative connotation, and is commonly used to mean "sexually perverted". The term is used as slang for sexually explicit or pornographic comics and animation, particularly Japanese anime, manga and computer games.[/INDENT] You want to know more, try Wikipedia, though you'll have to go there yourself since linking would indirectly link to adult pictures and that's a no no here. ;)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='The13thMan'][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]As for the good smack thing being better sometimes. I can definitely agree with ya there as well. Though, don't you need to get to know the person to know whether the smack is appropriate or not? Maybe i'm wrong here, i really have no idea how well you know Vegeta Rocker. I'm only saying it's usually better to be nice than mean. Often times showing that hostility will just make a person defensive and feel crappy. And that helps nobody. I think it takes a lot of self control to say something and then get attacked for what you said by somebody else then realize you were wrong and retract what you said. Most people are pretty proud, ya know?[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]At this point, you're really dragging this out far more than is necessary. If Vegeta Rocker feels I was a little too harsh, it's up to them to either post or pm me on that. At this point I'm poking you and saying, don't tell me I need say I was wrong when you don't even know how they feel. Yes I was blunt, but I already looked back at what I said and don't see a need to retract it. It's not that hard to see that I was pointing out that the student who got arrested was an idiot and that a little research would show his rights were not violated as far as police procedures go. The only thing that might be called into question is the use of a taser. I was not directly calling anyone here an idiot, I was telling people to look things up [I]instead[/I] of saying the police did it wrong. You're reading more in my posts than there was to begin with. I may have been blunt but I have no hostility towards anyone here. Also, you're being silly by implying I attacked them. On some level discussions require an element of picking apart what the other person said. And so long as people are being reasonably polite, it's not required to attempt to be politically correct because you just [I]might[/I] make someone feel silly for stating a view before getting more information as to what happened. If you can't take having a statement challenged, then why bother to post? So lets stop derailing the thread with this assumption you are making here. There never was any intention to verbally attack or be hostile towards anyone here.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='The13thMan'][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Indifference, you made some good points to Vegeta Rocker. It's definitely important to get your facts straight and do your research. Though... ya gotta ask why it is that this wasn't and (i fear) usually isn't done in today's society. I won't get into it too deeply, i'll just say people are lazy and that you shouldn't trust the news (especially in matters of science). Anyways! You were still kinda mean about it. =P You'll attract more flies with honey. Or... was it bees? Flowers? God, i don't know. You get what i'm saying though, right? [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]Honey is disgusting, so no thanks. :p Seriously though, think about it, sometimes it takes a good smack to get people to quit emoting and thinking about what happened, was it done correctly, were procedures violated, etc. General statements saying they should have done this or they should have done that are meaningless without some form of research or understanding of how the law works. [[SIZE="1"]and by the way, I'm not saying people were emoting here, but people kept coming back with the police [U]should[/U] have done this instead of looking up how the police [U]actually[/U] handle things[/SIZE]] As for being more direct and blunt... Though it was not criminal law, my father[B] is[/B] a lawyer. Though he retired a few years ago. But the one thing I learned from him was to never, ever, take the news or someone's account as the truth. It's important to think for yourself and find out instead of jumping on the bandwagon and assuming things were done wrong. If pointing that out makes me seem harsh or even mean, so be it. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"]And now that you've all had your fun instead of being super nerds or otaku's on this subject I say we put it to rest. [B] Thread Closed[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='vegeta rocker;791760]He tried to leave peacefully but they didn't let him, he said "I'll walk out of here" but they said that wasn't an option. [/QUOTE]Once you are being detained or arrested, you can't just say... 'Oh I'm sorry, I'll leave peacefully' It doesn't work that way. If you have half a brain at all you simply go with the cops and work it out when the chance is presented to you. [quote name='vegeta rocker;791760']As for reading him his rights, i agree they didn't have to read them but you have the right as soon as you are arrested to know the charges. [/quote]How about doing what I already advised about researching this a bit? Aaryanna and Lunox have already given information to the effect that the concept that you have a right to have your rights read to you as soon as you are arrested is wrong. The same goes for knowing why you are being arrested. Stop saying the cops did it wrong when it's you and others who don't understand how the law works. No you do not have the right to demand that they tell you that immediately. [QUOTE=vegeta rocker']He asked repeatedly what the charges were, they should have informed him of the charges. Thats from "A pocket sized guide to the Law" so i did look it up. [/QUOTE]Again, you're missing the point that Aaryanna already explained. There is no instant timing that the moment you demand to know why you are being arrested they have to tell you. It's perfectly legal to arrest someone and take them to the station and then tell them their rights and what they are being arrested for. Here's something to give you an idea: WHAT PROCEDURES ARE USUALLY FOLLOWED WHEN YOU ARE ARRESTED? [INDENT]1. The officer will take you to a police station. 2. You will be advised generally as to the charges against you. However, these charges may be changed later and stated in more detail by the office of the prosecuting attorney or in some instances by the grand jury.[/INDENT] There's more of course but people really need to get out of the stupid mind set that once an arrest has started they can demand or influence the sequence of events. Of course you have a right to know, but that right does not equal you deciding when you know. If they are arresting you and you ask why, it's perfectly legal for them to ignore you and wait until you are at the police station to formally charge and inform you.[quote name='vegeta rocker']I am not saying he wasn't trying to get attention, but he was mistreated regardless.[/QUOTE]Wrong again. The only thing he might have been mistreated on was being tasered. The rest? He brought that upon himself by not being smart enough to simply leave with the police once they moved to arrest him. I'll say it again, do more research before you declare that the police did things wrong or that he was mistreated.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial][B]Edit:[/B] And of course the poke and zap miss. Thank goodness I'm the Gingerbread Man.[/FONT][/QUOTE]Well I don't miss so consider yourself zapped. Anyone can see that you're using Rev as an excuse to get out of posting. And to distract from the fact that you really are clueless. lol Anyway, both of you get the show on the road. Instead of poking each other about posting. Honestly, for the rest of us to post, other than perhaps rev or DB... It's too much of just us and no one else. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Darren;791695]Okay, I'll give you that, but it's usually common for cops to read them their rights... Perhaps that's why the department's procedures are being investigated. Not just for the taser thing. And as I said, escorting him off the premisis is totally different. Of course there's no need to read him his rights if he's not being arrested, but they just sort of attacked him.[/QUOTE]What are you basing that on? Television? Or actual experience? How about some statics showing that cops really do say that in cases like this at the very start. No matter what people tell you... It is [B]not[/B] required to read someone their rights at the moment they are arrested and detained. Focusing on that bit is meaningless in regards to what happened here. What's being investigated is more of whether or not the situation warranted such a response. Or rather such a forceful one. Though from what I've seen and read it did.[quote name='Darren'']But after that initial reaction, I spare him no pity. He was obviously just craving attention, and while I think the taser was a bit too far, (In fact the whole thing was too far, which goes back to the fact that the department's procedures are under investigation.) It's like I said, I bet the kid learned his lesson.[/quote] Honestly, Rach is right, try doing a search on the web about this to get a little more information. The police used a taser since he refused to quit resisting and simply leave. If he hadn't been such an idiot and simply let them escort him out of the area instead of continuing to squirm, they wouldn't have needed to taser his butt. This guy has a history of deliberately pulling stunts to get attention. If they fire two cops for dealing with a stupid little attention whore, then the real injustice is that the fool will have gotten the attention he wanted. Or rather he will have gotten away with it.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='MistressRoxie'][color=#9933ff] Is it an absolute requirement to [b]truly[/b] care for someone (the way I described), to be in a relationship?[/color][/QUOTE]No, and for the same reasons others have mentioned. Finding someone who interests you enough to want to know more isn't exactly easy. I've have very few relationships that got to that level. Most, if not all, of my relationships have ended up being nothing more than just having fun. Though those types don't last long because after a while they do get kind of boring. I mean it's not fun when your date is only interested in talking about football or hockey. Especially when you're not into those sports. I agree with Rach on this, usually it does sort of just happen. You'll start dating someone out of initial attraction and then as time goes on you'll find that you have similar interests and tastes. Sometimes that translates into wanting to know more and sometimes it doesn't. I wouldn't give up on it. It's just not that easy to find someone you really do get along with. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]I'm still confused on what to do, I need more formulation![/COLOR][/QUOTE]You're already been told what to do really. All of the Shinigami are in the mansion and other than Aeru and Adrian, all of them are in different parallel universes. So Shalua is on her own and like the rest of us attempting to find a way out. Other than to not kill the Count you can do pretty much anything you want. From Shaula simply exploring or perhaps running into other creatures like Adrian, Lucia and Alex have. In other words, be creative! You could even simply have her wandering around madder than hell and smashing everything in sight while arguing with her familiar. ;) Also, if you hate reading... Then why are you in an rpg? Not to be too obvious, but if you haven't been reading the posts in the main thread... Then it's no wonder you're lost as to what to do next. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]EDIT: Does Adrian have a problem with Shalua? She isn't mean once you get to know her.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]It's not so much Shalua as it is his personality. There are very few that Adrian cares to be around. [INDENT][B]Personality:[/B] Cold and indifferent. He seems friendly enough, but underneath the superficial appearance he doesn?t give a damn about anyone.[/INDENT] It's just the way he is.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='AzureWolf;791370][COLOR=maroon]I think it's even more narrow-minded to tell people you "KNOW" that there is no one correct decision... Hypothetically, if God came down and proved himself tomorrow, you wouldn't really know - unless of course you don't believe in God and have proven his lack of existence. Of course, God isn't the only factor in knowing this, we could discuss the scientific side of things, but I think you get what I mean.[/color][/QUOTE]You've misunderstood me, I say there is no one correct decision because of different views around the world as to what is morally acceptable. So I'm not going to say what I think is the correct decision when it is the truth that not one of us knows for a certainty the absolute correct choice to make in a situation like this. That is why I say it's narrow minded. Until God [[SIZE="1"]should he exist[/SIZE]] comes down and says otherwise. I will not tell others what they SHOULD do. [quote name='AzureWolf;791370][COLOR=maroon']There are always extremes and exceptions, but always guidelines. That's what the question was about - at least IMO. In which cases do you see it ok, in which do you not? What is the general rule of thumb? Not, "I don't know and am too scared to formulate an individual opinion that might offend people. I refuse to think critically about issues and use the teen speak as my voice."[/COLOR][/quote]I think I already answered this and people are simply not listening, it IS personal choice based on circumstances. To put it in a nutshell, it has to do with maturity, do they want to have it before marriage? Are they ready for it? How does the other person feel about it? Are they only after pleasure or do they want more commitment? The only guideline I have ever given has been... If you think about these things and still can't decide if you are ready for sex, then it's likely that you are not ready for it. I can't give a concrete answer because the guidelines for coming to a decision differ for each person. For some religion will be a factor, where for others religion won't matter since they aren't religious.[QUOTE=AzureWolf'][COLOR=maroon]If we were talking about killing someone (I'm using an extreme that everyone agrees with), what would your answer be? "If there was no other choice?" "If it was for self-defense?" Some other generic, tried and true answer? Yes, but why can't you do that for this question? When is it ok, when is it not? Generally, is it ok or is it not? But just like killing, there's always exceptions. There's no need to make those copout exceptions as your answer. That's my beef with what's going on here, not the answer itself. I'm not playing mod, I'm just trying to explain why I hate that "answer/copout."You're saying it isn't the underlying cause but that's what's making them upset? I'm not trying to be a nitpicky jerk, but it sounds contradictory?I never said you don't plan for it..., and again, does it come naturally or not? Chicken or the egg?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]I think you're dragging this out more than is necessary, killing has a far more severe consequence than having sex does. Or rather consensual sex since I'm not going to get on the tangent of rape or other issues. So obviously giving a more concrete answer over killing is possible. As for the underlying cause, of course it's making them upset. I really wish people would listen to what I'm saying here... Sex is part of a package here, it could also be something else that they are angry over and the underlying cause in that case is the lack of sex. It's only one aspect of a relationship and if something is interfering with it, couples can and do find it extremely frustrating. That's why I said it's an important part of a relationship. [quote name='AzureWolf'][COLOR=maroon]To clarify, all I said was sex will come from your solid relationship, but a solid relationship will not come out of just sex. I never said there are no adjustments in the walk of life, or marriage, or when you have kids and a job, and planning is not required. I'd go so far to say that all of that has no relevance to the issue at hand.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]And I'd go so far to say that claiming a solid relationship will not come out of sex is biased since you can't claim that it hasn't or couldn't. All of this has relevance since the implication going on in this thread is that having sex before marriage somehow makes having a good marriage impossible when that just isn't true.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='AzureWolf'][COLOR=maroon]It's great that you realize it is ultimately a matter of choice, but what do you think they SHOULD do? Of course it is an individual decision and no one else's concern, but frankly that copout is getting way too played out on these forums and kills the topic entirely. Don't be afraid to rock the boat and express your opinion, even if it means turning heads or not getting any head at all.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]Wrong, in my opinion, the real [I]copout[/I] as you put it, is relying on your personal beliefs, religion or otherwise to tell others what they [I]should [/I]be doing in regards to sex. I say it is someone's choice because depending on social factors, how they were raised, etc. That choice is going to be different for everyone. I can't and won't be so narrow minded as to think I could actually tell people what they should do since I know that there is no one decision that is correct. [quote name='AzureWolf']P.S. Oh, indifference, I think that a lack of sex has an underlying issue. That is, sex comes naturally when people are attracted to each other. When that dies, it's not that the sex has dried up, causing the love to fade, but vice versa. Love dies, sex fades. Unless of course all relationships start by banging then loving.[/QUOTE]Of course, and when I say I work with people, it often is a journey to find out the underlying causes as to why they aren't having sex. Still that does bring to home that having it [I]is[/I] important, otherwise they wouldn't be upset by the lack of it. As for saying sex comes naturally when people are attracted to each other, I completely disagree. And ironically it's one of the underlying causes of people not having sex in a marriage. It's astonishing how many couples I've run into who once they got married and things settled down, became less active sexually because they were still waiting for those moments where it just happened instead of realizing that on some level, you make it happen. To give an example, and yes this is from an actual case, one husband was complaining that after they had their first child his wife was less interested in sex. Turns out, he was coming home from a desk job to a woman who spent the day taking care of the kid, fixing dinner and such and often was just too tired after a long day. So he made the change to coming home and helping with dinner and other chores so she wouldn't be too tired for the other side of their marriage. By making that change their marriage got back on track instead of heading into a divorce. So sure it might come naturally at first, but married or simply living together, you're going to find that it requires work to maintain that romantic interest. ;)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Nerdsy'][color=deeppink]You said something along the lines about how sex is just as important as other aspects of arelationship. Following that logic, if something like simple attraction is absolutley necissary for a relationship (ignoring things like arranged marriage here because I consider them different), than sex is just as necissary, for they are both equal in importance. If this is not where you were going with that, my apologies.[/color][/QUOTE]Keeping in mind that I'm talking about a relationship where having it is possible, then yes on some level it is necessary and both of them are equal in importance. Matt summed it up rather well in that romantic interest isn't maintained by a simple[I] "Yo, sup" and a nod everytime you see each other.[/I] Sure you might stay together, married or not, but in the end, for most people having an active sexual relationship is important and that goes for more than just the act. Other forms of contact in a romantic sense fit into that category as well. I'll come back to the attraction bit in a moment here. Anyway, if we move on to marriage and causes of divorce, sex is among the top reasons as to why people break up. People have this impression that the sex problems that cause divorce are couples arguing over, 'Should it be once a week? Should it be twice a week? Should the lights be on? Should the lights be off?' Those are not the sex issues that cause divorce. It's often a case of going months or even years without having any sex at all. As a result that romantic interest dies and eventually one of the spouses calls for a divorce. When you're just living together, all that happens is one of you moves out. [[SIZE="1"]for clarity's sake the people I am referring to are people I work with in my job as a counselor and not someone's post[/SIZE]] In that light obviously attraction is just as important, you don't go on a date without taking the time to get cleaned up do you? It's unattractive, so maintaining that aspect of the relationship, within your ability, is also important. Trust me, I've had relationships that never got beyond the first date or two since that attraction just wasn't there and for some of them good hygiene was something they had yet to figure out. Just like sex, attraction is more than simply seeing a guy and thinking he's hot. It's during the initial dating scene that often you'll find that you love their sense of humor, or the way they smile when they greet you. Or that you have fun being with them since you can spend hours talking about things that you both enjoy. If there isn't more than simply physical attraction, then for me, there never is any sex or other form of intimate contact. In fact usually after a few dates, I don't go out with them again.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Indigo"][quote name='Derald;791296][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][SIZE="1"][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Wow. I never knew "Insert Tab A into Slot B" meant the same as "I love you, and I want to be with you forever". It's amazing![/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]Don't put words into my mouth thank you. Saying it's important to a relationship does not automatically equate to sex meaning what you just stated. I don't have a problem with people who wait until being married, try to respect those of us who see it differently thank you.[QUOTE=Nerdsy'][color=deeppink]To those who say that sex is an essential part of a romantic relationship, I have to ask: do you believe that that relationships are impossible for those who cannot have sex? I'm specifically thinking of, say, paraplegics, although there are certainly others. Is love out of their reach, and can they only befriend? And what of the case of those in a successful, romantic relationship that become paralyzed? Does the relationship automatically go back to a "caring friendship," or is sex only important in the intial stages?[/color][/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure I did not say one could not have a deeper relationship without sex. I think how deep one's relationship can go depends on where they physically can actually go with it. I'll try to be a bit clearer here, sex, if it is something you can do, is one of many ways one can grow close to their partner, it is by no means the[I] only[/I] way. And that ties into what I said earlier about more than attraction being necessary. For someone who is growing closer it is an expression of how you feel towards them, at least for me. I don't sleep with someone if I don't care for them on some level. lol So no one get the idea that everyone who has sex before getting married is doing it just for the pleasure. Honestly, that really is ignorant. I know that there are people who are all into sex just for that aspect, but many people see it as a way to further explore the relationship [I]before [/I]making that big commitment. And honestly, in the end even if it is for fun... What others do behind closed doors really is none of your business and anyone who looks down on others for doing so... needs to stop being so arrogant as to think their morals are the only way. If you wish to wait, more power to you. Because I believe I already stated... It[I] is [/I]your choice and no one else's. [/COLOR]

Astera was worried as they continued through the mansion looking for either the Count or a way out of the trap they were in. The trap was a problem, but even more so was how Adrian was behaving. It was not like him to be quite so forceful and angry. Even if Aeru annoyed him, usually he just ignored her to a certain extent. Now as she sat perched as she always did on Adrian's shoulder, Astera couldn't help but cast the occasional glance back at Aeru, Joe and the young vampire Neviril. Just as Adrian had warned they were keeping back and merely following along. Oh he's going to be annoyed if I say something, but we can't be angry with each other! "Adrian," Astera said softly in a voice only loud enough for him to hear her. "What's wrong with you?" She faltered when Adrian shot her an annoyed glance before turning his attention back to the flight of stairs they were climbing up. "Adrian! I'm serious! Even if you don't care for Aeru, you've never been so abrupt with her before. I'm worried." Astera fell silent since she could tell that Adrian was not interested in talking about it. Still... There was something about the place they were in that was affecting them, of that she was positive, though she couldn't tell what it was. Adrian ignored Astera, or rather he did not respond to what she said. Because on some level he was wondering the same thing. Sure Aeru was annoying but Astera was correct, usually he just avoided her instead of snapping at her like that. But when that little fool came flying though the mirror, the link to the universe that they were from had been shattered. And all that idiot could think about was some silly notion that he had come to rescue her. She was lucky that all he did was simply yell at her. He sighed inwardly, disgusted with how things had turned out. On some level it was true, he had come to rescue her, but only because he wanted the chance to deal with the Vampires, not out of any feelings towards her. Order or not, he wouldn't have come if he didn't want to and now thanks to Aeru's stupidity it was likely that they really were trapped in the parallel universe for all eternity. And for some reason... It infuriated him to no end. He was here to deal with the vampires, not wander in some mansion forever. Adrian tried to calm down, but the more he thought about it the angrier he became and when they came upon what had to be a horde of Ghoul's, he was more than willing to oblige them. Adrian just snickered as he counted close to thirty of the undead creatures as they came out of the shadows, moving towards the group. Well now. Adrian thought with grim satisfaction as he called forth his scythes. If the Count thinks something like this is enough to stop me... He is sadly mistaken "Stay back." He cautioned the others even as he readied himself, sending the blue flames of purification running down his blades. Adrian ignored Neviril startled gasp as he launched himself without warning and then just as he was almost upon the Ghoul's he spun, his scythes extended, neatly cutting those that were the closet in half. As if in a trance he then back flipped out of range of the others that reached for him and then repeated the same move yet again, swiftly launching himself towards the next group and stepping on his left foot to initial a full spin with the scythes extended. In no time all of them had been purified as Adrian then went around and touched each one with the end of his scythe to finish the job. He looked around to make sure there were no more and then relinquished his scythes and faced the others. Only then did he realize that none of them had ever seen him actually put his scythes to use in such a ruthless manner. Other than Astera that is, once Adrian was done she simply settled back down on his shoulder. But the others, even Aeru seemed shocked. "What are you staring at?" He growled at them, causing Neviril to jump. "Move it!" Then he turned and headed down the hallway, not bothering to look and see if the others were following him.