The13thMan

[quote name='Korey'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][COLOR="Indigo"]I would pass it up on the fact that religious views have been argued to death on Otakuboards and I'd rather stay clear of the shrapnel, because someone always takes special measures to add their own opinion and shoot down the others and dismiss them as silly or even downright wrong. I'm all up for discussion, but arguing is rather pointless if neither side is able to concede even just an inch for their beliefs. Know what I mean?[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]It's not pointless if somebody learns something from it. Which i often times do. I've had many discussions here on OB that i remember and that i have learned from. But certainly, if noone learns anything and no opinions are changed, then i would consider it pointless. Whenever i start any conversation/debte/argument/whatever i always hope that that does not happen. [/FONT] [quote name='Allamorph']The purpose of this thread is to argue. Not to learn, not to understand, not to be any more enlightened. To argue.[/quote] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Unfortunately you're entitled to that opinion. Although, if you are to imply that i created this thread for the sole purpose of arguing, then you would be wrong. I created this thread in the genuine hope that i would hear sound, logical responses to the questions so that i may better understand them and learn from them. Quite frankly, your pessimistic view is a load of crap. I really did start this thread in the hope to get good discussion from it... but people, such as yourself, have tried to stop that. To everyone else that tried sincerely to answer my questions, thank you. [/FONT]

[quote name='Korey'][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][COLOR="Indigo"] Exactly. I'm not about to argue over my beliefs with someone who obviously believes differently than I. I'll leave it at this. You say tomato.[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Perhaps you prefer arguing with people that believe the same as you? I'm sorry but i just don't understand this. Arguing with another person who has a different view is such a great thing. You can learn so much. Why would you pass that up? Also, the questions i asked aren't merely a matter of belief. Nor do you have to believe in God at all to answer those questions. The questions are aimed at any omnipotent being, fictional or not. If you don't want to argue religion or whatever, then don't. There's no need to here. Once again, thanks for letting me know you're not willing to participate in the conversation. [/FONT]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I've been playing a lot of Starcraft recently on Battle.net. I was wondering if any Otakus here still play on battle.net and if they'd like to join me in battling evil. For the sake of discussion, anyone here excited about Starcraft II? My battle.net ID changes a lot. My current one is Dr.Manhattan. Feel free to hit me up on battle.net. [/FONT]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I'm so glad you two spent the time to let me know you're not going to participate in my thread. How very thoughtful of you both. =D[/FONT]

[quote name='Sabre']If we are to believe that God made this entire universe, and the heavens, then it is possible for him to be everywhere at once. [/quote] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Did God create the entire universe?[/FONT] [quote name='Sabre']Can he create a rock so big he can't lift it? Why? I'm sure he could but what is the point?.[/quote] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]If he could then it proves that he is not omnipotent, if he cannot then that too proves he is not omnipotent. That's the point of the question. [/FONT] [quote name='Sabre']why should God remove human suffering, wasn't it self inflicted?[/quote] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]The question isn't why God should or shouldn't, it's why he doesn't. If he is a good and loving God and capable of removing suffering from the world, why doesn't he? And, as i said before, not all suffering can be beneficial. [/FONT] [quote name='Boo']If we take God as an all-powerful entity, He could decide to make something He cannot lift and the next moment He could,[/quote] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]If he cannot lift it one moment is he not then not omnipotent for that moment in time? And if in the next moment he can lift the rock then in that moment he cannot create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it. So i guess in both cases he cannot satisfy the rock paradox. I seriously doubt that there is an answer to this question that actually satisfies the question and leaves God as an omnipotent being in the literal sense. But you're all welcome to keep trying. [/FONT] [quote name='Boo']In any case, the scenario means that you see God as an entity with the Earthly connotation of "power", which is way too limited.[/quote] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Then what wouldn't be too limited? Also, what's wrong with it to begin with? Can't an omnipotent being have power in any sense of the word?[/FONT] [quote name='Boo']Define "good" for everyone and for yourself.[/quote] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I actually remember thinking about this for a moment yesterday when i was writing something in this thread, wondering if anybody would ask that question. I realized that it doesn't matter what my definition of good is or anybody else's. An omnipotent being would be able to satisfy any of the definitions of it. But to answer your question. My idea of good for the sake of this thread mainly has to do with having the sympathy necessary to take action when you witness suffering that you can prevent. If God is omnipotent then he can prevent suffering, and yet he does not. Why?[/FONT] [quote name='Darren']but I can't think of a way he could end suffering without taking away free-will or killing a lot of people first.[/quote] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]You don't have to think of a way to do it, nor does anybody else. Only God does. Can God? If he's omnipotent, then yes, he should be able to. And at the very least, we can simply focus on one aspect of suffering - disease. Why can't he take away disease? Would that affect free-will? [/FONT]

[quote name='Sangome'][SIZE="1"]I watched both of Bush's inaugurations, and I don't remember stuff like that being used at all. I think that's just a tad bit much, no matter who it is... Also: Why does that amuse me so much?[/SIZE][/QUOTE] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I'm not sure on this one.... so please do look it up if you're interested and don't take my word on it. But i think because of the confusion with Florida back when Bush won his first term he was unable to get sworn in all fancy like Obama and other presidents. As for the cost of Obama's inauguration.... eh, whatev. Let him do what he wants. Obviously people feel more strongly (for or against) for Obama than many previous presidents. Let the guy go all out! [/FONT]

[quote name='Darren'][SIZE="1"]Oh boy, another one of [I]these[/I] threads. I am an atheist myself, ...[/SIZE][/QUOTE] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Dad-gurn it! I want a believer to reply. I'll give it some more time. [/FONT] [quote name='Darren'][SIZE="1"] I think that in order for God to end all of these things, he would have to constantly kill all the bad people in the world. It would certainly show his presence, and people wouldn't do bad things anymore. We wouldn't have war, murder, torture, rape, etc... However, in that sense, he would be taking away a human's right to choose. Something that's very prominent in the Bible. And if we don't have a right to choose, then we'd all be living in the Garden of Eden right now...[/SIZE][/QUOTE] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]He doesn't have to do anything, he's omnipotent, he can do anything. If he wanted to end suffering without affecting free will or killing people, then he'd be able to. Until i hear a better explanation, one that actually makes sense, i'm going to say that God can only either be good or omnipotent. God must pick one. I don't like the "God's plan" thing. All it does is say that instead of there being suffering that God can stop there is suffering that God planned and executed. And not all suffering is for your own good. There is too much suffering in this world... too much needless suffering. [/FONT]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I am agnostic. Sometimes i argue with a person of faith (almost always of the Christian faith) about religion or god. And most every time that i do argue with someone else on this subject i eventually ask two questions at some point in the conversation. [B]1. The omnipotence of God. Can God (or any being) be omnipotent? [/B]Is it even, by definition of the word, possible? I think the classic question is: Can God create a rock so massive that he himself cannot lift it? This of course is impossible in that both possible solutions to the answer suggest a God that is not omnipotent. I have heard some answers to this question. There are two that i'll mention. I like one more than the other. The first one, the one i prefer is that God is not truly omnipotent in the sense that he can do anything. Instead he's omnipotent in the sense that he can only do what he wants to do. I can mostly jive with this answer, but it leads into the second question, whether God is good or not. The second possible answer i've heard is that by answering the question God somehow makes it so that there is some fundamental law of the universe that stops him from doing one or the other. Let's say the universe is finite and god makes a rock that fills the entire space of the universe. Therefore he cannot move it, where would he move it to? Basically it makes it so that if God is incapable of doing something it is not directly his fault, rather someone/something else's. I don't like this answer very much. I actually wouldn't even consider this an answer to the question of God's omnipotence directly, it's actually (in my opinion) just a cop-out to the specific rock paradox. [B]2. Can God be both omnipotent and good? [/B]I'm sure a lot of people already know what i mean by this. Many people have asked this question before. Can god be all-powerful and yet still good? With all of the suffering in this world why doesn't God do something about it? If he is omnipotent, then surely he can stop all human suffering. If you liked the first answer i gave to the first question, then why does God not want to help us and end our suffering? And if God is omnipotent and still decides not to end the needless suffering, then is God good? These are questions i put forth not because i think they are unanswerable or unfair to ask a person of faith. I ask these questions because they are questions i've always had and have always attributed to my disbelief in God. I look forward to your responses. [/FONT]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I've come up with a few candidates so far. The tentative list: Xbox 360?? Probably not. New phone? Doubtful. A chair? I could probably get this any old day, no reason to waste a christmas gift on it. Mommy and Daddy to get back together? That's so sad! And totally made up. Gee, i guess i haven't really got a good christmas list going. I've actually just realized that i'll have money this year to buy other people gifts. This is pretty exciting for me, i never have money. Now i just have to figure out what to get everybody. If anybody's got some ideas i'd love to hear them! I've got a sister in college, two brothers in highschool, and two parents. I suppose i could get my kitty a present too. [/FONT]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Don't worry, pal, I'm in the same boat as you. I don't know crap about politics, and i'm damn proud of it! Well, maybe not that proud. Whenever someone asks me my opinion on politics i simply tell them that i don't like politics. I typically try to be as pretentious as possible when i say that and i may even throw in some negative political cliche. Politics is just a bunch of liars lying to one another in a broken system, etc. Of course, that doesn't mean i don't care about the subjects. Anyways, i don't have any idea how to answer your question... i think AM had a good idea of trying to get to the source of the info. Good luck on your search for the truth. If you find it, please spread it along. [/FONT]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Uhm, i don't know anything about making drinks. There's this one podcast that's called "Tiki Bar" that is like a comedy show that features a new drink every episode. They give the exact specs to make the drink along with the name. So, maybe check that out if you want some more interesting ideas and a bit of comedy goodness. I do remember drinking this one drink once.... that was quite tasty. I wish i could remember what was in it. I want to say it was mountain dew, everclear, and something else.... or maybe that was it. It didn't taste like it had any alcohol in it at all and i still got a little tipsy. [/FONT]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]I agree, Chibi you've got a great smile. Now, being a woman, you must learn how to turn it into a weapon. ...maybe you could tie knives to it? Nevermind...[/FONT]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Speaking of silly little quotes I feel moderately compelled to point out that such a hope is vain. And his sentiment was one that could be easily interpreted to mean that all conservatives are stifling his goal of a socialist America. So in short, all dissent would disappear. That's not an admirable goal in the least, that's insanity.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]If you want to consider the hope vain, that's fine. But i don't. Why don't i? Well, it's mainly because i know that hoping for those ideals is good motivation for taking steps towards those ideals, productive steps that will yield productive and wholly good results. So then, i suppose it just depends on what you would consider to be vain. It can be easily interpreted that way if you are already extremely defensive about your conservatism... which you seem to be. Perhaps you should reevaluate. [/FONT]

[quote name='Raiha'][COLOR="DarkOrchid"][FONT="Times New Roman"] I think it speaks just a little too well to your mild....neuroses that you would love [LOVE] to live in a one party nation. I think I read this book once. What was the title? 198-something. Oh rats I can't remember at all now.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Forgive me for chiming in at a random point. I haven't read many of the previous posts, but for some reason have felt compelled to respond to this little silly quote. The sentiment to want to live in a world free from argument, drama, and tension from people who have opposing opinions is not a bad one. It is possible to live in a society where people generally agree with one another, and if done correctly, could be great. The only problem is that, as many great authors have pointed out (such as your Orwell), to accomplish such a task could require rather extreme and unfavorable circumstances. But that doesn't make the hope any less...hopeful. [/FONT]

[quote name='Vicky'][SIZE=1]I was a rather blunt statement, but what I mean is people often state it is unnatural in human nature above all and I was referring to humans as animals. The very fact that [i]it happens[/i] suggests that it's probably nature. To make it clear, I don't care at all whether it's nature or not. We are not nature anymore, and I see the whole 'unnatural' thing as a fallacy itself. Therefore any statement of it being against nature is downright silly.[/size][/QUOTE] [FONT="Trebuchet MS"]The speculation that because their is homosexuality in the animal world it is natural for their to be homosexuality in the human world, and because it is natural it is therefore alright, is only speculation, and not any sort of solid evidence. What i would consider to be solid evidence that homosexuality is caused by our biology is if we actually found some reason that it would be... a gene or something. Nobody should say that it's ok to be homosexual because there are gay animals, and neither should anybody say the opposite. So, i suppose on that part we agree (not to say we even really disagreed on anything in the first place, hah). I think there are many reasons for a person to be gay. Society, their own personal environment, pop culture, maybe something physical, who knows? I don't think there are many gay people who can honestly say there was 1 and only 1 reason that they are gay. [/FONT]