Heaven's Cloud

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] [B]Heaven's Cloud maybe you should read my [b]whole[/b] post next time. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]I did read your [b]whole[/b] post, actually I read your [b]whole[/b] post several times, that is why I chose to comment on it. When I wrote my response I felt that your post was extremely vague, that you didn?t clarify or support any points that you were attempting to make, and that the tone of your post had a fairly general anti-American slant to it. After your last post I feel pretty much the same. Although I dislike dissecting posts because I feel that it usually takes away from the writer?s point of view, perhaps this is the best way to get my point across to you.[/color] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] What good has happened? I've watched the news for eight days straight now without seeing one good thing happening on a global scale for the good of all and even when there is good news it is hardly ever attributed to America.[/QUOTE] [color=indigo] Over the past three weeks the associated press has been conducting a poll in Baghdad. Apparently, there is an overwhelming amount of support for what America has done in Iraq, by overwhelming I mean a seventy plus percent approval rating from the people in Baghdad. The American government set aside an additional four billion dollars in aide for the American Red Cross to help improve Iraqi hospitalization and medical care. You made an opinion but you didn?t support it with facts. You didn?t bother even citing one example of negative news comments surrounding the US. But you seem to get riled up when I question your vague (and it is vague opinion).[/color] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] Yet I've seen America (and England) be implicated six times out of those eight for coursing bad to happen in the world and leaving it a worse off place.[/QUOTE] [color=indigo]Implicated in what? Again you?re being vague. America is [b]implicated[/b] for doing all types of things, some good some bad. Apparently the US was implicated six out of eight times in something though?[/color] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] (I'm doing a project involving looking at different news sources. ABC, SBS, Ninemsn.com.au other random others.)[/QUOTE] [color=indigo]Wow, I hope that you make points based on fact (or at least points based on an opinion) in this project of yours. Are these the sources that you based your prior arguments on? I am sure you have an argument based on watching these sources, but you sure didn?t make it in your prior posts.[/color] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] You expect me to post eight days of bad news, that?s 8x30 minutes of news stories each about three minutes long. I have better things to do.[/QUOTE] [color=indigo]I don?t expect you to post eight days worth of news, however, if you want to make a valid argument I expect you to list a few of your reasons. You just stated an opinion that had absolutely no justification or support yet the tone of your rebuttal leads me to believe that you are upset that I questioned the basis of your opinion[/color] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] Read my post, it clearly adds the main sources I use. "I'm doing a project involving looking at different news sources. ABC, SBS, Ninemsn.com.au other random others."[/QUOTE] [color=indigo]I covered this above, however, I did ask you what your sources were in haste. Looking back, I realize that your sources are meaningless because you didn?t make any points.[/color] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] What? My reply was purely to say that (in reply to the post above it) the reason America always seems to be doing the bad things is because it is. It's good to bad ratio in the view of the media I watch is not good, now either sources from all over the world are universally bias against America or they just don't do nice things often I don't know. (In fact I'd like to know James opinion of this since it's his area.)[/QUOTE] [color=indigo]But that isn?t what you wrote earlier, nor is it what you seemed to be implying. You simply stated that America was responsible for doing eight days of bad things and were implicated in six of out of eight things (who knows what those things were). If this was the point you were trying to make, you didn?t convey your thoughts very well.[/color] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] I did not in anyway imply anything to do with that conflict in my post, the second paragraph was to prove Harry?s facts wrong and had nothing to do with my post and did not have anything to reflect my bias in the issue.[/QUOTE] [color=indigo]Well, I wasn?t aware that you were ?everyone? (although, I made a broad generalization by stating ?everyone? so I guess it does [b]include[/b] you, lol), however, I failed to make a paragraph break in my post so I can see why you would feel as though I was attacking an opinion you made. I?m sorry that opinion seemed a direct response to a point you were making, it wasn?t.[/color] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] In future before you bash my posts please read them first, thank you.[/quote] [color=indigo]I didn?t bash your post, I wanted you to clarify your opinion, which you did to some small degree in your previous post. It is my opinion that you tend to create vague, unsubstantiated arguments in threads that pose political and ethical questions. Let me give you an example of this using the remark that you ended your previous post with.[/color] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] As for the insane amount of money given to the Israeli's while I was finding out information about the true cost I found out that there are two other first world countries contribute substantial aid to Israel and per week the average countries incomes are lesser than Israel. [/quote] [color=indigo]Am I the only one that thinks this comment is vague? You found out that two other first world countries give a substantial amount of aid to Israel, but you don?t tell us what countries they are. You also state that their average countries income is less per week then Israel, yet you fail to provide an numbers or estimates of numbers. I?m sure that these points are valid and could be true, but since you don?t even attempt to prove them I am going to question your opinions, if you are under the impression that I am bashing you then you obviously are unable to debate your point of view.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i] [B] Get The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars. That's basically his masterpiece. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]I honestly picked this album up thirty minutes after I read your post, during my lunch break on Tuesday. I?ve probably listened to it a good half-dozen times now?it is a great album. Although I have heard several of the songs before (many of which are on the ?Best of Bowie? collection) it is such a solid album. It is one of those albums that you listen to and it puts you into a surreal mood?[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Baron Samedi [/i] [B] My dads mothers mum was some mega-rich jew [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]I wish that my dad's mother's mom was a mega rich jew...unfortunatly I'm protestant... I guess that the most famous person that I know was my grandfather. He was the director of Saftey for Maryland Public Schools for twenty years and appeared in several reel to reel saftey videos that were viewed nation wide in schools. He was a really cool guy...everyone in Maryland seemed to be his friend...[/color]

[color=indigo]The hope scholarship is the scholarship that the state of Georgia promises to every student that has a B average at the end of high school right? If that is the case, I think that they should definatly attach a SAT restriction to it. Its not like a student cannot improve their SAT's throughout their Jr and Sr year. Plus, if you cannot make a 1000 on your SAT's tou don't deserve a scholarship... ...shoot, I blew those minimums out of the water and I had to pay my way through school...[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OlgaTheDwarf [/i] [B]Well, he [b]was[/b] the precurser to MM but he's a Christian now so I wouldn't expect any Devil worshipping at the show you're going to. Anyhoo, I enjoy his music somewhat, and I believe he released a new album today. Enjoy the show!!! [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]I always got the impression that Manson was probably an atheist from his lyrics?I don?t think that atheists are devil worshippers, hence ?a?theist, or non-believer? I am not a big fan of Alice Coopers, although he does have a few cool songs (all of which are on the ?Dazed and Confused? soundtracks :)). I did like his brief cameo in Wayne?s World though. [/color]

[color=indigo]I think it is funny how people are attempting to put a Robin Hood-esque (god, I love that suffix) twist to stealing anime by saying that it helps the industry in the long run. Let?s face the stone cold truth, downloading a fan sub is theft, it is a crime, and it should be. Fan subbers take licensed material, add subtitles, and then distribute that material without the consent of the artists that created it or the corporations that license it. The main argument for fan subbing seems to be that people that download fan subs tend to use it to determine what anime they will buy. While I understand the point, I fail to see how it justifies theft. I could make the same argument about shoplifters that steal clothes. They wear clothes, and they do occasionally buy clothes, but only if they enjoy them after they stole them. Personally, I don?t care whether or not you download fan subs; just don?t convince yourself that you are doing any thing other than stealing? [/color]

[color=indigo]Yeah, when I was nineteen, I got drunk and had sex with a girl that I barely knew without wearing a condom?waiting for the results of an STD test is not the most enjoyable way to spend several weeks?[/color]

[color=indigo]I always enjoy your poems Mitch, mostly because they are so different from anything that I would write. I like the way you abuse the rules of grammer and never become pegged down by traditional styles. My favorite of all the poems was probably XXXXXI. I think you did a commendable job of paying homage to Poe while infusing a set style with your own unique perspective. I enjoy the title, whether it was done on purpose or not?so I say leave it if you like it. I wish I could critique your poems, but it really isn?t in my nature. I have always felt that poetry should be written for one?s self, and it is only an added bonus when someone else finds it relative, enjoyable, or inspirational. If I was to critique your poems I would feel as though I cheated your originality by mingling my ideas with yours. I know I could have just written nothing and saved you the time from reading something that has absolutely no bearing on the original request you made, but I didn?t want you to think I don?t read your poetry and enjoy your inventivness?[/color]

[color=indigo]Heh, I have a great idea...lets make a movie about a comic book charecter that has absoluty nothing to do with the comic book. That won't piss off the legions of comic book fans that usually go to charecter based movies over and over again. And while we are at it, lets cast Halle Berry, who has all of the acting skills of a young Jean Claude Van Damm (well maybe not that bad), because she is hot in Hollywood right now... [/color]

[color=indigo]I don't understand why prayer in school is still such a big deal. Students have seventeen hours a day outside of school in which they can pray constantly if they so desire. I f they need to bless their food, I am sure they can do so without having to lead the school in prayer...I don't think that students need a minute of silence, most of them are zoned out enough in class.[/color]

[color=indigo]I was interested to see how this band sounded, so I visited Amazon and caught some blurbs from Stereotype A and Viva! La Woman...but it wasn't enough to spark my intrest too much... ...It looks like I am forced to go buy another one of Semjaza's suggestions..."sigh". Well it has never been money ill spent, all of his suggestions or remarks tend to be true...for example, I bought Kings of Leon, which Semjaza more or less commented on as being "Ehhh?" and it ended up being "ehh?"...he said Apocalypse Hoboken rocked, and they do!...plus I don't have any music that sounds remotly similar to this band...so I'll try it just for variety![/color]

[color=indigo]Can you follow with conversation or are you deadlocked by indecision all you argue is a specter of your true self your complacent conjunctures fail to motivate or incite and all the thoughts you invite are allowed no forum what defines our actions is our voice?s voice[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lea2385 [/i] [B]well, if a bully kept smaking you with a stick, and it was the bullies best friend who was giving the kid the stick, and the bullies best friend went out and suggested somthing, are you going to support the bullies best friend? by america giving alll that insane amount of money to isreal, they are indirectly part of all the problems over there..... [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]My argument may have not been the greatest, but yours is just asinine and unfounded. Let?s take a brief look at the history of Palestinian and Israeli aggression over the past fifteen years. Leaders from both countries meet in DC and agree to terms of a cease fire or halt in aggression. A week later a Palestinian fanatic with a bomb strapped to his chest destroys half a city block. The Israeli?s tighten their security around the border, shooting encroachers. Palestinians become enraged and surround the soldiers pelting them with stones, until Israeli?s are forced to fire back. Is it unfair, yes. Have you been pelted in the head by a sharp rock traveling 60mph before? I understand that Israeli was given land that belonged to the Palestinians, that sucks. But if a group of Native American came to my door and began pelting me with rocks and wouldn?t stop then I may be inclined to borrow a gun from a friend to defend myself. Sorry that was off topic, but people need to realize that this conflict has gone on long enough that both sides now equally share the blame.[/color]

[color=indigo]I am not sure if anyone has have created a thread devoted to discussing David Bowie, although it wouldn?t surprise me if good ole peach head himself, Semjaza Azazel, made a thread about him and I overlooked it. Hopefully this thread will incite a little discussion, and perhaps encourage some people to explore some of his music. As far as genres go, David Bowie has always been hard to, if not impossible to classify. He tends to move through, and incorporate trends and styles while simultaneously imbibing his music with a distinct sound. As phenomenal as the instrumental aspect of Bowie?s music is, I find myself drawn to him because of his lyrics and vocals. I always associate his with that of an opera singer, not because it is traditional, or even due to his vocal range. I associate opera with David Bowie because his voice seems resonate with grandeur (for a lack of a more appropriate term). Even his songs that have a quicker tempo seem to slow down when he sings. David Bowie has a number of phenomenal albums (hopefully [b]Reality[/b] is exceptional as well, I still haven?t had the chance to buy it) but my two favorite, [b]Man Who Sold The World[/b] and [b]Heathen[/b], are newer releases. His older music is excellent as well, unfortunately I only have two of his greatest hits albums, and hopefully I can get a couple of his older albums soon. I think that is where I will end my thoughts for now. Feel free to use this thread to discuss any aspect of David Bowie?as if you needed an invitation?[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] [B]What good has happened? I've watched the news for eight days straight now without seeing one good thing happening on a global scale for the good of all and even when there is good news it is hardly ever attributed to America. Yet I've seen America (and England) be implicated six times out of those eight for coursing bad to happen in the world and leaving it a worse off place. (I'm doing a project involving looking at different news sources. ABC, SBS, Ninemsn.com.au other random others.) And yes Harry I believe that Israel this year is asking for 12 billion on top of the 3 billion America already gave them, note that America has to cut back at home budget wise because of all the other stuff bush is spending on. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]What are these ?bad? instances that you speak of? What sources are you looking at? It seems as though you are providing a horribly vague argument unless you are attempting to prove that the international media is anti-American (which could be the case I guess, but the tone of your argument makes me think otherwise). I?m sick of everyone falling onto the Israeli and Palestinian argument when they focus on American foreign policy; however, I understand why so many countries disagree with our allegiance to Israel. Sure we give an insane amount of money to Israel, but we also give quite a bit of aide to Palestine. While the amount of money is not near equal, Israel has a history of supporting the US in nearly every decision we make, Palestine does not. Is it fair? No. Will the policy change? Maybe, but probably not. I know that is not a valid or terribly poignant argument, but it is the truth. Anyway, my thoughts on the original issue are as follows. I have only watched Fox news a few times, but they were always slanted a bit too far to the right for me. I am a fairly conservative person (except when it comes to certain human rights issues) but I tend to enjoy watching and reading news that has a bit of a liberal slant. When I tend not to agree with an article or the way an issue is presented it causes me to think and to question my beliefs.[/color]

[color=indigo]I think that you should sit down and attempt writing music before you try and conform to a set genre. What if the music you write aounds better in a country format than in an industrial one. You may be a good country band, but because you are so desperatly clinging to genres, you sound like a pathetic rap/rock hybrid... ...anyway, it was just a thought...[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i] [B] 100 Bullets - I don't know. I'm really mixed on it at this point. It seems well done, but I obviously jumped on in the middle of a story arc. I have almost no idea what is really going on. I'm also somewhat put off by the art, as it seems really cartoony for the subject matter. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]I found a TPB of 100 Bullets yesterday, and I read it at Borders. It was pretty good, in a violent and interesting kind of way. The art in the TPB was very dark, and almost had a Frank Miller/Sam Keith quality to it...so it had obviously changed some since the TPB has come out. I still haven't found a local comic store that is close though...so I have been unble to check out the series and see how it is currently developing...Drat Warren Ohio, drat it heck!![/color]

[color=indigo]is a cell molecular in structure really all that different from these three walls and rows of bars my latrine overflows with the same ooze that gods and God created us from in relative purpose the clapping of my chains reigns heavens echoes as the pitter patter of rain echoes my cell and vibrates my cells the warden and his children fell from Olympus or perhaps migrated from Asgard for warden Allfather is of the gallows, of the one-eyed liars and gods and God alike whisper to me in my cell speak to my cells as I evolve from man to ooze and back to man the clapping of my chains reigns heavens echoes as the pitter patter of rain echoes my cell and vibrates my cells [/color]

[color=indigo]a cannon celebrates its explosive lie as flood waters rise wisely construing decay orphans laugh as the cannon contemplates whether truth is more absolute than fiction the flood waters vomit ichor from its delta mixing, mingling, polluting with reserve rampant randomness afflicts the cannon which silently ponders its absolution in one big BOOM! [/color]

[color=indigo]You sat me down To shut me down But what didn?t know Was what you didn?t know You shed your tears You spoke your fears But I didn?t care About what you cared And my affliction My addiction Is soft and warm And oh so snuggly I won?t let you strip me Of my identity For my addiction Defines who I am You tempted me With sobriety But you didn?t offer What you should have offered Your offer missed You false Judas And now I?m back on the wagon Back on the wagon And my affliction My addiction Is soft and warm And oh so snuggly I won?t let you strip me Of my identity For my addiction Defines who I am [/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i] [B]Previously I've heard him described as a "Dave Matthews Wannabe", which didn't exactly excite me. Between Dave and the Matthew Good Band (which reminds me of Dave Matthews with a heavier twist), I've had enough. I'm tempted to bother checking this out since some people whose music opinions I actually respect are saying good things in here... but I don't know yet. I still have to buy the new Misfits and Bowie :( [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]He is defiantly very similar to Dave in style, they defiantly classify as being in the same genre. I am not sure whether or not you?d like his music Semjaza, you are pretty eclectic ao I guess it wouldn?t surprise me if you liked him [b]or[/b] if you hated him :). I haven?t picked up the new Bowie album either?I see it at the record store beckoning me every day, but I always forget about it when I am looking at other stuff?[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by terra [/i] [B]At a concert I went to last year, he actually incorporated several guitar solos into the normal songs on his albums. He'd just create a musical interlude for himself so that he could go off on his guitar for however long. In 83, for example, he stopped in the middle and played "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" for a bit, then switched to "Let's Hear It for the Boy," then moved right back into his song. I consider things like that pretty fun, and if I were a pop star, I know I'd be trying to do things like that too :P[/b][/quote] [color=indigo]He played a couple of drop solos at the concert that I went to, I seem to remember him doing a brief interlude of "Let's here it for the Boy". He also opened a couple songs with a cover verse, including an "A-Ha" tune that I thought was pretty cool. I love it when artists cover, or at least pay homage to, older songs [b]well[/b].[/color] [quote][b]I also really like his song "Comfortable," which I've only ever heard live versions of. The fact that it's not repeatedly played on the radio probably helps that song out for me ... [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]I dated a girl for a few months, and she loved that song. I think she wanted it to relate to us, unfortunatly we had nothing in common... Anyway, if I had to pick one song it would probably be "My Stupid Mouth" just because I can relate to it so much. I doubt there is a guy out there who hasn't attempted to say something funny or witty to impress a girl and it came out horribly wrong. I also like "Love Song for No One" because I tend to dwell on the "I wonder what would have happened if I had done this" thoughts.[/color]

[color=indigo]I remember that the lead singer was a high school teacher (or something like that) and that in the "Peaches" video that band fought ninja for some random reason... ...anyway, never really cared for them...[/color]

[color=indigo]Its alright...keep on writing though, never let one poem represent you. I have written a lot of garbage, but occasionally something good emerges.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i] [B][color=#707875]In terms of the European thing...well, I'm sure most Americans don't think all that much about foreign policy. But nevertheless, the Government has to. So obviously, in terms of having your cake and eating it to...Powell is probably a good candidate there. [/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]Nah, I was really just joking around, snubbing your comment with the stereotypical American reply. Whenever you talk about American leaders, your position always seems to be based (or at least revolves) around foreign policy?which I expect, considering that you live in Australia :p. I would hope that most American?s care about how other countries view our leaders, because so many aspects of daily life correlate to global issues (maybe not the best wording there, but hopefully you get my drift). [/color]