Allamorph

[FONT=Arial]Hmm. Major Sewall's voice comes across as somewhat odd. Happy now, Squeaker? (^_^)[/FONT]

[size=3]A pair of officers from the science division parted to let Sub-commander Tourney brush past on his way to the [i]Bastion[/i]. Sauvage had summoned him to the deck that Engineering had apparently been busy renovating for the past two weeks, just below the seldom-used bridge. From what his subordinates had told him, Engineering had had another, much bigger project that had had taken most of their time, and the on-board work had been started and completed in the last three days. Tourney stopped eight paces past a corridor and sighed. Two and a half weeks way and already he was forgetting the layout. He backtracked and strode through the doorway that, while it took him to the [i]Zenith[/i], was a shorter path than the trek to the [i]Chevalier�s[/i] direct connection would have been. More turns, less walking. When Sauvage called, there had better be no long way around. The summons had come during Tourney�s lunch break, only three or four hours after his ship had arrived. Tourney had hoped for a longer rest than that, and wasn�t exactly looking forward to another project so soon. He also wondered about L�Arachel. As soon as the prisoner had been offloaded, she had disappeared�first to settle Scorer, she�d said, and then to bury herself in paperwork. Always with paperwork now, or else rushing between ships and deftly avoiding collisions with other crew-members. Tourney wondered how she did it. He�d almost collided with an officer as he�d exited the [i]Zenith�s[/i] lift, and bumped into another two while crossing to the [i]Bastion[/i]. He couldn�t remember a time when he�d stepped into a corridor to go somewhere, even four doors down, and not struck someone. He pursed his lips as he walked. He remembered seeing a lot more of L�Arachel before she�d been promoted to Sauvage�s aide. Sauvage was waiting just inside the doors to the refurbished deck, which now appeared to be a modest control room with several stations arranged facing a large viewscreen. Two of the stations were occupied by crewmen, neither of whom looked up when Tourney entered. The man closest to Tourney remained bent over his console, focusing intently on his monitor and tweaking a dial now and again; the other, more towards the center of the room, seemed to be concentrating alternately on the viewscreen and the multiple displays in front of him while speaking quietly into a headset. [b]�I�d heard you were curious about our new pool,�[/b] Sauvage was saying. He gestured to the viewscreen. [b] �I thought you might like to see it.�[/b] On the screen was displayed a gargantuan tank filled with a light-green liquid. The tank was easily twice the size of the mess hall; Tourney estimated it to be about eighty meters wide. A long hose, hanging ostensibly from the out-of-view ceiling, sank into the center of the tank, down to a small dark shape obscured by the fluid. Two similar forms seemed to float beside the first as it drifted, seeming to stay close, but not too close. [b]�That�s big,�[/b] said Tourney. Sauvage nodded. [b]�It�s one of our main research facilities for when we have larger projects that the Bastion can�t accommodate. Or in this case,�[/b] he noted, [b]�when it�s better if the project was handled elsewhere.�[/b] Tourney blinked. [b]�This is the interrogation chamber?�[/b] [b]�It is,�[/b] said Sauvage. [b]�Initially I�d wanted to house the tank on the ship itself, but the Chief Engineer and I decided that eliminating the presence of any ship noises would be best.�[/b] [b]�So where else can you put it?�[/b] Sauvage indicated the screen. [b]�The asteroid.�[/b] [b]�I�m not surprised you�re unfamiliar with it,�[/b] he continued. [b]�We rarely use it directly. Most of the time we send orders to it and a few others like it, and switch out personnel when we get the chance to stop by. This one is set in the interior of the asteroid straight off the bow; we hollowed it quite some time ago.�[/b] [b]�What are we using it for right now?�[/b] Tourney asked. [b]�Isolation.�[/b] [b]�I�m sorry?�[/b] Sauvage cleared his throat. [b]�As I�m sure you know already,�[/b] he explained, [b]�our subject is highly resistant to essentially all conventional forms of interrogation and coercion. The problem isn�t that we can�t yet find the right method. The problem is that all the methods currently in practice are external.�[/b] [b]�External?�[/b] [b]�Yes, getting at the mind through the body. The theory is that if the body is subjected to enough stress, the mind will eventually crack in an effort to protect its house. And it is an effective practice in most cases. But our subject is capable of withstanding far more stress than is normal, or even considered healthy, because of his unique background. So another option was necessary, and we were the only people who seemed willing to use it. �Our method is considerably more archaic�or at least it�s fallen out of common knowledge. But I think it would be better if our expert explained it to you.�[/b] Sauvage tapped the closest crewman on the shoulder. The man looked up, noticed Tourney, visibly perked up, and stood. [b]�Sub-commander!�[/b] he exulted. [b] �Welcome, welcome. How do you like the facility?�[/b] He extended his hand abruptly and licked his lips. [b]�It�s . . . very nice,�[/b] said Tourney, taking the proffered hand. He glanced at Sauvage, who coughed. [b]�Major Sewall, I was just telling the sub-commander about the procedure....�[/b] [b]�Oh!� [/b] Sewall seemed to be excited by the statement. [b] �Oh yes. Well, what we�re doing here is removing all external stimuli from Mr. Scorer.� [/b] He made sweeping gesticulations as he spoke. [b]�Instead of attempting to play the senses, and subjecting the prisoner to more and more in an effort to break through any defenses, we will be taking it all away. Mr. Scorer can see nothing. He can hear nothing, smell nothing, and taste nothing. He can [i]feel [/i]nothing.�[/b] [b]�How?�[/b] [b]�Mr. Scorer has been placed in a special wetsuit that forms so well to the body that any sensations that would normally stimulate our body hairs cause no sensation at all,�[/b] explained Sewall. [b]�And since we oiled him quite thoroughly before putting the suit on him, he can't feel it, either.�[/b] [b]�But how does that help us get information out of him?�[/b] asked Tourney. [b]�Oh, no-no-[i]no[/i],�[/b] said Sewall, shaking a finger at him. [b]�No, we won�t be asking Mr. Scorer any questions for quite some time. In fact, he�s going to tell us most of what we want to know all by himself.�[/b] Tourney was stunned. [b] �How?�[/b] [b]�This method deals directly with the mind,�[/b] interjected Sauvage. [b]�All sentient beings, Versilan or otherwise, are at the core social creatures. We must have company to thrive; alone, we wither. And despite many years of genetic modification and acclimation to long periods of space-travel, the mind can only tolerate so much solitude before it begins to break down.�[/b] [b]�Yes, yes!�[/b] Sewall continued. [b]�And when we reach a certain point, our minds become very open to suggestion.�[/b] He frowned. [b]�Since Mr. Scorer is Versilan, and also still quite resiliant, I�m afraid this process could take a few days.�[/b] [b]�And that�s a bad thing?�[/b] asked Tourney. [b]�Well, no, not really. But if he were human, why, we�d have him out of there in eighteen hours, or even sooner!�[/b] Tourney blanched. [b]�That�s . . . that�s��[/b] [b]�Amazing, isn�t it?�[/b] Sewall bobbed his head. He seemed to drift off for a second, and then his eyes brightened as a thought occurred to him. [b]�Oh, Mr. Sauvage, sir! I have some information you might like to send to our Mr. William.�[/b] He produced a data pad seemingly from thin air. [b]�Please send this to him; I�m certain he�ll be interested in the, er, options presented.� [/b] He grinned as he spoke; Tourney began to feel distinctly nervous about the man. [b]�Thank you, Major,�[/b] said Sauvage as he took the pad. He turned to Tourney. [b]�Sub-commander, I would like you to oversee this project for me and keep me informed. Since the [i]Chevalier [/i]is currently being overhauled, I don�t think this is too much to ask, and I trust you�ll keep me adequately informed?�[/b] [b]�Oh, yes sir. Of course, sir.�[/b] [b]�Excellent. I�ll leave you to it.�[/b] Sauvage turned to leave. [b]�Major Sewall will fill you in on what you need to know.�[/b] Tourney watched the doors hiss shut after the commander. This new project promised to be a very interesting ride. [b]�Let�s start with the drug mixture,�[/b] Sewall was saying. [b]�We want Mr. Scorer to stay awake for a while, since the mind can use rest as a defense mechanism, and we want to slightly dull his senses, so we're using the air line you can see on the screen to filter down a mixture of....�[/b][/size]

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[FONT=Arial]My family is very small. Apparently I am adopted by [COLOR=DarkRed]A_M[/COLOR], and aside from that I am [COLOR=DarkRed]KimmehWolfwood[/COLOR]'s uncle, but that's about it. The rest of you . . . . who [I]are[/I] you people? :p[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]I'm still kind of weirded out that I'm even mentioned in this thread in the first place. And once by a lesbian, no less. o_O[/FONT]

[QUOTE=Vicky][size=1]We found the Achilles heel, folks. [i]Exploit[/i].[/size][/QUOTE] [FONT=Arial]I will stab you with my steely knives. AND I WILL KEEEL JOU!!! >_> [I]SILENCE!![/I][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial] [INDENT]. . . . . what the bloody hell.[/INDENT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Great song by my current FAVORITE band Porcupine Tree, echoing my sentiments about popular music. [URL="http://www.imeem.com/people/YQhb9n/music/R_At3Wne/porcupine_tree_the_sound_of_muzak/"][COLOR="Blue"]The Sound Of Muzak[/COLOR][/URL]. For you music nerds out there who'll understand this comment, I really enjoy the intro (which is not in seven, but a two-bar three-and-a-half pattern :animesmil), especially the way the guitar is voiced; and the vocal pedal point in the second chorus. ♥[/FONT]

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[quote name='Rachmaninoff']I don't know who will win, no matter what the polls say, but I already decided on voting for Obama long before the final debates. It was a matter of which one's stances on the issues matched what I wanted to see the most. McCain definitely doesn't even come close to what I want to see.[/quote] [FONT=Arial]But there's the thing?I can barely tell a difference between [I]either[/I] of them. As far as I've been able to discern, the only clear difference of stances they seem to have are what the media says they differ on, since I haven't heard either candidate actually come out and make a clear declaration that wasn't a deliberate sound bite. (Could someone clear me up on this "sound bite" thing? I'm never sure I'm saying it right.) I will confess that I haven't heard much of anything at all, so my opinion could very well be simple ignorance. But even if all I have left to go one is gut instinct, then I [I]still[/I] distrust both men. There's something in their eyes and behind their faces that just feels . . . [I]wrong[/I].[/FONT]

[quote name='Lunox][font=trebuchet ms']McCain just failed that debate so badly. I mean, it wasn't even a matter of what his beliefs were, but he could not handle that form of debate and I felt embarrassed for him. He's a hater. ha[/font][/quote] [FONT=Arial]And didn't the GOP can his *** back in 2000? In favor of Bush no less? The party I attempt to identify with has gone completely bonko. :p I tell you what. I don't want to vote for either of 'em. We got bupkus this year. Mario 2008. :p[/FONT]

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[CENTER][IMG]http://www.captainsnes.com/comics/2008-10-16.gif[/IMG][/CENTER] [FONT=Arial]I'm totally ditching the parties, you guys. Mario 2008. [I]Represent![/I][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Or tell us, you know, what a mikipomapoo is in the first place. 'Cause that sounds suspiciously, ya know, like [I]not English[/I]. :p[/FONT]

[quote name='silpheedpilot][SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]Superbad? Man, that movie was hilarious. I guess you all are just so mature that it offends you, I don't know. Grow a pair.[/COLOR'][/SIZE][/quote] [FONT=Arial]Typically, when a guy grows a pair, it's called maturing. Most of us already [I]have[/I]. But hey, if that's what gets your groove on, far be it from me to call [I]you[/I] immature. That'd be, like,.... ...immature. Hmm. I would almost say [B]Happy Feet[/B]?but not only would I have a whole bunch of happy people instantly at my throat, but the movie did in fact have one or two redeeming moments. Basically, any time Robin Williams was talking was appreciable. But that was about it. Transformers . . . I could go either way on. I wasn't too fond of the portrayal of Optimus, either, and the fight between them was a little disappointing. Token hot chick was token, happy-time mother was moronic, and I think the scriptwriters tried to focus far too much on making some sort of story emerge from the human characters. And even though I did enjoy about half of the movie, I [I]also[/I] say screw the sequel. I did not appreciate the obvious hole left open for more storyline.[/FONT]

[quote name='Aaryanna'][color=DarkGreen][font=Book Antiqua]â??[b]I find your lack of knowledge on your sworn duty disturbing.[/b]â?[/font][/quote][/color] [FONT=Arial]Yes, Lord Vader. I will not fail you again. I know it would be the last time. I'll post soon. Gotta give the young'un some more time to stew, after all. :p[font=Book Antiqua][/FONT][/font]

[FONT=Arial]I'm going to get behind the condemnation of the "that's gay" derogatory. Not only is it [I]highly[/I] insulting to homosexuals?I mean, what if we went around saying "That's so Darkie!"??but it's also completely ignorant. Calling a situation "homosexual" makes no sense at all. Really, I'm just as miffed that the term can no longer be used to describe carefree happiness, but seriously. Don't be a moron. Use an insult that's an insult, and not a by-word you say to sound cool. Also, 'retarded' should fall under that category. I'm guilty of that one myself.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Since you seem to be quite eager for an argument, [COLOR=DarkRed]Reri[/COLOR], despite the situation, how about you give [COLOR=DarkRed]James[/COLOR] a rest and poke at me for a while? I've certainly got some points I want to talk about that I didn't have time to discuss over my break. [quote name='Retribution][font=Arial']If you are calling me "Jesus-ophobic," I would object.[/font][/quote] Good. You're supposed to. By the same token, I object to being called an "Islamophobe", because the label is inaccurate. However, just as my actions in this thread seem to you to be those of an anti-Muslim prophet of doom, so your actions to me in various other threads along with this one seem to be those of one who cannot but spy the barest mention of Christianity without feeling an overwhelming need to discredit it. [QUOTE][I][FONT="Arial"]I'm more taking issue with the broadly negative picture being painted of Islam here. I personally find these views to be intellectually dishonest.[/FONT][/I][/QUOTE] Considering I am merely presenting information that I have received and personally evaluated the degree of bias versus truth, I find this insinuation to be an large affront. Yes, the statements I have made about Islam so far have not been favorable. But would you have me speak of the Third Reich alongside fields of flowers and prancing unicorns? To deny the truth, [I]any truth[/I], is intellectually dishonest. And in this context, the truth is that Islam as a religion [I]and[/I] a culture is very warlike, and has been for millennia. It's not hatred or fear or loathing I speak from. Merely observation. [QUOTE][I][FONT="Arial"]I assumed you were painting Islam as a violent religion (and generally speaking there's a lot of that language in your former posts, intended or not). So I wanted to knock that argument down by bringing up [i]your[/i] religion. You know, it's the argument of "pick the plank out of your own eye before taking the splinter out of your brother's."[/FONT][/I][/QUOTE] Yes, you assumed. And you were right, because truthfully I have been giving a rather bleak picture. But then you want to counter not by promoting the peaceful nature of Islam that you might have seen, but the violence of another? What did you hope to accomplish? A change of topic? Me to reflexively defend my faith as pure and honorable, despite a clear history of power abuse? To do so would have been intellectually dishonest as well. As for the mote/plank parable, I implore you: if you wish to use my own texts against me, then please learn them so you may use them effectively. First, as I'm sure you're aware, the point of that parable is that one should deal with one's own faults before one points out those of another. The flaw with its use in this context is that the violence and power abuse of the Judeo-Christian sect is a part of [I]history[/I], and as of the last few centuries there has been no violence as I have been painting, and as you wished to point out. Yes, we still have our flaws and weaknesses and hypocrisies to deal with, but they are not relevant to the [I]current[/I] mindset of the Middle Eastern culture, which has been what I have been driving at since my first post. Second, I think the mantra you really wanted was "judge not, lest ye also be judged", which came right before the mote/plank analogy. And really, the two are meant not only to be used in conjunction, but also with the bit between them: [INDENT]"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the same measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"[/INDENT] Matthew 7: 1-3, NIV, if anyone cares. But here again you passed judgment on me just as you claimed I was doing to Islam, and yet I acknowledged your cries and even fueled their accuracy with support of my own? Did you miss the mentions of the Crusades, the Inquisitions? Would you like me to bring up Cortéz, and the Spanish conquest of the New World in the name of God, and the [U]countless[/U] [U]atrocities[/U] committed by the conquistadors? My point with my information about Islam was to point out the degree that religious justification can be used to do ill. You are proving alongside me that such misuse of religion is common. And yet you still cry foul against me? I turn the parable back to you. You seem to feel compelled to speak ill of my faith as often as you can, and yet you criticise me when I present negative information about a religion other than Christianity? Are you the only one allowed to make such judgments, and of a faith of which you have but elementary knowledge? Until I may speak freely of my faith here on these boards without immediately losing all my credibility and without immediately being attacked by those who feel themselves above such 'crutch-leaning', do not presume?no, do not [U]dare[/U] to tell me I cannot speak of another faith, no matter how negative. Do not [U]dare[/U]. [QUOTE][I][FONT="Arial"]I'm not really sure what you mean in creating a unified/diverse dichotomy of thinking. I'm not even sure that it's valid to call Islam "culturally unified" insofar as there are different sects with wildly varying doctrines. These divisions are in large part responsible for the current civil unrest in Iraq. If anything, I'd call Christianity more unified.[/FONT][/I][/QUOTE] First of all, I said nothing about creating [I]any[/I] dichotomy of thinking. My words were that I wished to bring an [I]understanding of Islam to the playing field[/I]. Whether people agree or disagree does not bother me, so long as they understand. However, I would question what you know about the "wildly varying" doctrines of Islam. Given the shallow understanding of the Christian community which you have displayed thus far, I think perhaps that you might be relying a little much on what the media has told you about Islam, and not searched for yourself. The only item that comes to mind immediately for me is that there are indeed different sects of Islam, and some of the Islamic doctrines quite conflict with each other (again, the same has been claimed for Christianity, so please do not waste your breath bringing [I]that[/I] tired subject up), but aside from that.... My comments about 'diverse' and 'unified' were spoken directly to the mindset of the West versus the mindset of the Middle East respectively. I even explicitly stated so. If you did not understand, then perhaps.... Very well. The point I was driving at [I]there[/I] was that, as I said in several previous instances, no matter where you go Islam is Islam. And while that sounds initially to be a vast, blatantly sweeping over-generalisation, bear in mind that I am recognising the distinct differences in culture from even Jordan to Turkey, and surely the Western European countries. Despite those differences, as I illustrated with the single student example (though I have others), the thinking [I]inside the Islamic faith[/I] is the same?and at the same time as they are stabbing tables demanding a death sentence they are claiming that there is no violence in Islam. That is a [I]unified[/I] mindset. Also as illustration, notice how it is far more comfortable to pursue a pastime you happen to enjoy when you are in the presence of others who share the same enjoyment. It is easier to talk philosophy among fellow philosophy acolytes than it is to talk among those who neither know of such pursuits nor care. Likewise, it is far easier to be vocal about your faith when you are surrounded by a large group of people who share your beliefs. Have you never been to a Christian rally, where forty-thousand young adults are singing praise songs at the top of their lungs? Would it surprise you to know that perhaps one percent of those students sing that passionately in their own churches, if that many? So while I claim that Islam is a unified community, that unification is forged even stronger in their homeland, where they have the support of thousands like themselves. Contrariwise, here stateside we value diversity and the freedom to think as you will. (And love as thou wilt, but that's both a fictional D'Angeline reference and irrelevant.) As a direct result, it is [I]required[/I] that we first as a whole [I]agree [/I]to take action before we can take action and hope to be effective. Remember the Articles of Confederation? How badly they failed? That failure was due to a heavy balance of power to the states, and little to the central Federal government; as a direct result, a financial crisis in Massachusetts escalated to armed conflict (granted, one shot was fired), while the Federal government was impotent to act or authorise anything. Our lack of unity paralysed us, and the Articles were immediately repealed. And yet again, the Civil War was caused as a direct result of diverse thinking. However, the variables for this war are so numerous that I feel it a waste of both our times to explore them, at least for now. Certainly diversity has led us to great progress as a nation and a culture, but at the same time it causes a certain hiccup in our actions should we want to move to do anything; think of how long a case spends in litigation before the Supreme Court finally decides to even see it, let alone rewrite national policy for it. And then when our leaders [I]do[/I] act decisively, the uproar is enormous . . . as you yourself have demonstrated with your views on the current occupation. Finally, I wonder at the relevance of pointing out the 'unity' of Christianity at all. We are [I]certainly[/I] not a completely Christian nation (else I think you'd be having an eternal aneurysm), while the Middle East is [I]decidedly[/I] Muslim. Which returns me to my initial point: in order to successfully interact with that culture, we [I]must[/I] at least partially abandon our own 'superior' way of thinking, and come to at least partially understand theirs?which they believe to be superior to ours. [QUOTE][I][FONT="Arial"]In any event, I think we should also bring a distinction between the truth of the religion (i.e. the actual teachings and honest interpretations) and what the religion is purported to be by its mouthpieces.[/FONT][/I][/QUOTE] And that is what I have been attempting to do with every post I've submitted. Yet you still cry [I]j'accuse![/I] Should we then ignore any negative slants on a religion or a culture? Or should we delve to the truth, no matter the ugliness that emerges? Or is that negativity reserved exclusively for the Christians? [CENTER]-----------------[/CENTER] [COLOR=DarkRed]Nathan[/COLOR]: Aha, I see. The intercessory, yes. No, I was fine. But thank you, I appreciate the thought. [quote name='Rachmaninoff']This I already know. You can hunt up examples if you wish, but I don't think it's necessary. That's a point you don't need to prove.[/quote] Oh, good. To be honest, I felt a little like a jerk while writing that bit, but it wanted to be said if I was to be fair. And thank you for understanding what I was driving at. It's not that I [I]want[/I] to portray them as 'evil'. It's that before we can do anything with them, we have to understand how they think, even if it seems unattractive to us. [quote name='James][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"']Instead, people are indoctrinated with extremist points of view at a young age. Religious texts are used as a basis to justify these points of view, but this is just a way of legitimizing violent and unacceptable behavior.[/FONT][/quote] Yes, yes, [I]yes[/I]. That is another strength the Middle East has over the West: they educate their children in their beliefs early and thoroughly. With our appreciation for diversity and finding one's own way, we cannot hope to match that strength of unity. Call it indoctrination if you will. But all parents who wish to instill a set of values in their children do the very same. Good point, sir.[/FONT]

[quote name='Lunox][font=trebuchet ms']OMG! You're so ~cool~ for ignoring 99% of my post and instead making a sarcastic reply. [/font][/quote] [FONT=Arial]Well, I was trying to avoid an argument that I wasn't intending to start and yet seems to be happening without me. So there ya go. Still trying, actually. Very hard. (^_^)[/FONT]

[quote name='Lunox][font=trebuchet ms']So, yeah. I see you flaunting your superior music taste, and honestly, it's really not that attractive.[/font][/quote] [FONT=Arial][I]*sigh*[/I] Yeah, I know.... I should probably wash it here soon, too, 'cause it's starting to smell like Teen Spirit. Yeesh.[/FONT]

[quote name='Lunox][font=trebuchet ms']I understand why a lot of people hate the JB, mostly bc their fans are obnoxious and crazy as hell,....[/FONT][/quote] [FONT=Arial]I hope that doesn't apply to you also. :animesmil 'Cause that would render the whole rant moot. [/picking] [QUOTE=Lunox][font=trebuchet ms]Lol seriously, people blow up about how crappy the Jonas Brothers' music is, but it's on par with most of today's popular artists' music. Granted, that still makes it mediocre music, but I love how people act like JB music is much worse than it really is. It's catchy rock-pop, time to move along. [/font][/QUOTE] Right back at'cha, hun. It's catchy rock-pop, time to find a new obsession. (^_^) And everyone should make note of the popular artists point. We have no musicianship in the pop sector anymore because [I]now[/I] music is no longer crafted. It's mass-produced. Better check the back of the JB's necks, see if there's a "Made In Taiwan" tattoo there. :animesmil Although I [I]will[/I] agree with the deal about calling artists talentless. If there was no talent, the boys wouldn't be singing/playing [I]anything[/I]. [quote name='Lunox][font=trebuchet ms']And it's not even like all music companies actually suck artists' souls away, it's something people like to say and run around with to justify their hate.[/FONT][/quote] Cooldown time, girl. My gripe with Disney and other "blockbuster" pop record labels is that they find young [I]moderately[/I] talented people and encourage them to pump out a record or two of the exact same sound that people liked in one song. There isn't a push for experimentation or growth as an artist, just a need to sell records and make money. (Hmm. Seems I could tie this point in rather neatly with our current economic situation, since the prevalent attitudes are identical.) I bought Mraz'z [I]Waiting For My Rocket To Come[/I] because I liked "The Remedy", thought it was innovative, and wanted to hear more by that artist. After listening to the cd, I realized that all but two of the tracks on it were almost cookie-cutter likenesses of each other, and that put me off him immediately. Still love "The Remedy", and also "Wordplay" off of [I]Mr. A-Z[/I] (oh hey, they sound like each other, too), but I have no desire to hear anything else by him just because of the overwhelming [I]same[/I]-ness of what I paid to hear. [quote name='Lunox][font=trebuchet ms']Like wtf is up with judging people based on what music they listen to.[/FONT][/quote] WDFXXUP??? :p Actually, that's human nature. Some people will hate on bands because others have expressed a distaste for said band, and said person is trying to feel like their opinion means something as well. (woo, vagueness!) Myself, I hear you listening to JB and I instantly surmise that you have no serious formal music training. I could be wrong, but that's what comes to mind. [QUOTE=Anime_girl5] liking JB or not. I really dont care what you think or say about them. cause whatever ya'll say about them, makes me like them even more! ha ha.[/QUOTE] Uhh. [INDENT] . . . . [I]what?[/I][/INDENT] Take heed, friends. [I]That[/I] is blind devotion. [I]*applauds*[/I][/FONT]

[quote name='Calypso][COLOR="Sienna"']:animedepr Sucks. Really, sucks. However, is there not another verse that says "spare the rod, spoil the child"?[/COLOR][/quote] [FONT=Arial]Yes. That verse means that to refrain from punishment is to cause your kid to turn out rotten. Still doesn't help [I]you[/I] any. :p[/FONT]

[QUOTE=Clurr][FONT="Arial"]I've been wanting to go against this argument with one of my own for a while. Biologically, humans are not intended to mate with others of the same sex. Science can't disprove this. With that logic, eating meat must also be a sin.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE] [FONT=Arial]Wow, and here I was just pointing out that arguing from a religious standpoint was not a good idea. :animesmil So keep in mind this next bit has little to do with sexuality at all. It's also a purely Christian argument. You all take it with a grain of salt if you need to. (^_^) If you read the first few chapters of Genesis, you'll find that humans originally did [I]not[/I] eat meat; and it was only after God slaughtered the first animals to clothe Adam and Eve that we as humans began to eat meat. The 'killing-for-clothes' was symbolic: to sin is to flaunt the word of the one who created us, and therefore to essentially forfeit our right to live (since we're basically claiming that we can do things without Him, including being created). So then, since death is required, the only substitution can be some living thing that is innocent . . . and animals are the closest bet, since they are incapable of either sinning [I]or[/I] being perfect. Any further on that subject goes into a blather about the ultimate sacrifice, which isn't needed here. Suffice to say that eating the flesh of a dead animal should remind us that we are using an innocent being to sustain our own lives. (Again, from a Christian standpoint. You don't believe this, that's cool; I'm not gonna shove it down your throat.) And good gosh, but this thread blew up while I was gone! (I blame [COLOR="DarkRed"]Lunar[/COLOR]. :p) I'll reply later if I need to after I catch up. [B]Edit:[/B] And [COLOR="DarkRed"]WH[/COLOR], stop trying to be cool and put a sock in it.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][COLOR="DarkRed"]Crimson[/COLOR], you might as well stop trying now. The only way one can confidently claim that same-sex marriages or relationships are wrong is in the context of religion, and claiming religion will achieve only an attritionary argument, since on the one hand you have those backed by the laws of their faith and on the other you have those backed by the laws of reason. Basically, as [COLOR=DarkRed]Kastom[/COLOR] tried to point out before (although his point was crudely fashioned), without a clear definition of Right and Wrong one cannot disavow at all the rights of same-sex couples in anything. To use psychological arguments traces directly back to religion, for according to Christianity that is not how we were designed. To use physical arguments traces directly back to religion, for according to Christianity that is not how we were designed. Point of order, the only solid ground for an argument against same-sex couples is that such a union is a [I]direct perversion[/I] of God's creation. And since that line of thinking has no place here, since religion is a personal and not universal application, there is no solid ground for anyone. Thus in this context, I would argue [I]for[/I] same-sex rights, despite my beliefs against them.[/FONT]