TwistedChick

[quote name='chibi-master']Why does everything revolve around Sasuke now?....*sob*:animecry:[/QUOTE] That part is getting annoying, big time. The only saving grace is that Sasuke knows he was weaker than Itachi. Rooted deep into his heart is the realization that what he struggled so long to attain and what he sacrificed so much for was unreachable even in the end. Cheating off Orochi's power got him nowhere in his attempts to kill his brother. And now, [I]that[/I] power, though it's been replaced by mangekyou, is gone. The cursed seal has gone bye-bye, so now we just have to bite our lip while he uses amaterasu and other techniques he [I]shouldn't be able to use.[/I] Though, really, we should've seen something cheap like this technique-transfer coming. I mean, did we actually expect Kishi to sit back and have Sasuke [I]not[/I] achieve mangekyou all because he will never kill Naruto? No, but still. Grr. I have to focus on Sasuke's sense of self-defeat or I get more irritated than is healthy for a person.

[quote name='ImmortalGuru']Well, who's to say that he's gonna be able to have the Mangekyou from now on. Maybe he was just able to use that Mangekyou that one time...[/QUOTE] Well, Madara straight up said that Itachi had "transferred his eye techiniques" to Sasuke. I doubt that would be a one-time use kind of thing. What good would that do, especially if the jutsu simply up and triggered without Sasuke being able to control it? In other words, if the jutsu missed or was ineffective (like it was) then the transfer would have been pointless. He gets to keep mangekyou. whoopie. *even harder sarcasm than before* I find it interesting that Amaterasu made Sasuke's eye bleed as well. I guess that hadn't been a sign of weakness when Itachi used it and had the same thing happen...

Ch. -106 - If anyone in the history of the Seireitei deserved to be locked up before actually committing a crime, it most definitely would've been Kurotsuchi. ~Madman~ all the way. Glad to see people agree. Why Urahara would release him, eventually leading to his replacing him as Captain, I don't have the time or energy to ponder at the moment, so I'll leave that to Kubo to explain. But, man. *shudders* That guy gives me the creeps. Let's see if we can get this thread to move, shall we?

I step away for two weeks and the thread hardly moves... sad. Chapter 397 - Madara is a lying bastard. If not, uber-WTF?! And simply [I]touching[/I] Sasuke allowed Itachi to transfer his techniques...isn't that a bit of a stretch? I think Kishi's seriously groping in the dark right now. Apparently he isn't listening to the fans, at least fans like us, who were [I]happy[/I] that Sasuke appeared to have been weakened by this battle. But, [B][I]nooooo[/I][/B]. He actually achieved mangekyou. [I][B][U]Yay.[/U][/B][/I] *dripping with sarcasm*

You certainly make some good points. The more I kept reading, the more I believed it. Maybe it's because everything ties together so nicely that makes us question it slightly, but it sure sounds believable to me. It could be the case that the reason Isshin waited 80 or so years to start a family after fleeing Soul Society was because he'd left a family behind. It would take a man a while to be willing to move on, knowing that he had another family out there, thinking about him. And even if he's simply a member of the clan and not Ganju and them's father, it would take longer to 'settle in' to his new life if he'd left a number of close relatives behind, especially exuberant ones like Ganju and Kuukaku. I'd also thought about the whole "Kurosaki" business. Even if it was simply a fairly common name, surely [I]someone[/I] within the Seireitei would have found Ichigo suspicous if Isshin had gone by that name before. It hasn't been all that long that he's been gone. Quite a few of those officers would have known him, despite all the upheaval within the Shinigami ranks. I can't recall, but has Tite ever let on as to whether 'Isshin' was even his real first name? Changing both could be expected.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Just purely out of curiousity, does anyone else here buy into the theory that Isshin was/is part of the Shiba clan ? ...I've been mulling over the theory for a while, and actually agree with it. Heh, fan-theories are always fun.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] I'd never thought of it before, but it [I]would[/I] be interesting. There is some pretty strong physical resemblence, and even his behavioral patterns ring a few similarity-bells. Oh, poor Ichigo. To be related to Ganju... What would that entail as far as any of the other Shibas being shinigami...?

[quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]Truth be told, I'm more concerned about finding out more about Tobidara. I mean, he's potentially one of the most interesting characters in the series, but we really haven't learned that much about him yet, other than the fact that he's an Uchiha and (of course) he now has a vested interest in Sasuke.[/color][/size][/QUOTE] He seems to have a pretty extreme Vash or Kenshin complex going on, just the evil version. Schizo characters that aren't [I]actually[/I] schizo but are just putting on an act tend to grab your attention. Showing his sharingan to Kakashi proves he has the 'intrigue' factor.

Since Aizen wasn't a captain yet 100 years ago, I can only imagine how recent Gin's appointment must have been. I mean, if Renji and Rukia first met Aizen after he'd made captain and Gin was just a lieutenant then, he's pretty new. I guess my theories about Hitsugaya and frequent captain shuffling have a bit of truth in them... Score one for me. ^^ This really raises so many questions, but all in a good way. I actually look forward to having these questions answered. Like who woulda guessed Urahara could get into trouble so quickly after making captain? He [I]does[/I] have that mischievous air about him... [QUOTE]I dunno about Zaraki Kenpachi being a captain before Aizen....from the way that they were talking, they made seem as if there were more than one Kenpachi who always competed for the spot as Captain of the 11th division.[/QUOTE] Calling him a "loose cannon" and mentioning the previous Kenpachi being "inept"... I think those are supposed to lead us to Zaraki being the one talked about.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Anyone else smell another Uchiha-power-up coming ? Seems as well that Madara was the one who limited Itachi before his fight, given his lack of surprise as his descendent's loss.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] God, I hope not. Please let this just be a technique unique to Madara, not something that just anyone can learn. Since Madara seems to be pulling all the strings in this situation, maybe he knew something about Itachi's disposition that prompted him to let him head off to death, or even as you suggested, aid him to that effect. I'm still a little uncertain as to who is the standing commander within Akatsuki. Is Pein strictly a figurehead when it comes to be the leader, or are they equal in authority? Did Pein also know Itachi was going to die soon? Just wondering... Is it just me, or does anyone else get all fuzzy inside when Kishi has Kakashi be the one to piece everything together...? Yeah, I thought so. Just me. ^^ Though, his references to the 4th [I]do[/I] keep making me wonder when they'll have Gaiden in Shippuuden...

[quote name='chibi-master']I'd just like to see how much she's improved. 'S all.[/QUOTE] I don't know if we'll see her do much fighting. She won't have improved as much as Team 7 (think about who their teachers were) but she should be stronger, I'm sure. I've always seen her role as more of a cheerleader for Naruto than a fighter, and a near-silent one at that (wait, does that even count as a cheerleader?). It would be nice to see if she's caught up to Hanabi, or at least shortened the gap. That would've been a good goal for her. As for Shino... Before I'd seen any Naruto and my sister and brother were telling me about a guy who fights with bugs, I laughed. Hard. I thought it was one of the funniest things I'd heard, whereas my mother found it creepy. After seeing him though, I really enjoy his character. After what we've seen with so many characters slowly pulling out one cheap trick after another to try and one-up their opponent, it's nice to see a guy that will always go all-out from the start. It's about friggin' time. Does anyone think Kishimoto might pull a fast one on us and kill off a Konoha-nin in this fight? I don't foresee the battle being very long, but he could surprise us. I don't think so myself, but I was just wondering...

[quote name='Treble']Even though I?m not a big fan of the two, I still want to see how things ended between the brothers. It should be interesting.[/QUOTE] You might want to catch up sooner rather than later if you think you'll be hanging around this thread much. Spoilers galore. If you've managed to skip the last several pages of posts, still beware that we're sure to drop some rather crucial details here and there as the weeks progress. Of course, if by "see" you simply mean have the visuals of what you already know happened, then you're safe. Be careful though if you haven't heard the outcome. Just saying...

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]It seems nobody else noticed it, but in one of the last few pages, if you look in the garganta behind Aizen, you can see Gin's outline clearly enough, and across from him what I assume to be Tousen, although he's rather hard to descern.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] But also note that unlike the Espada who come trapsing through the rifts, they're hanging back - a detail that begs some explaining if they were going to join the fight with the Gotei 13. Would Kubo miss the opportunity to draw a panel of Gin looking all evil and pleased unless he had other things for him in mind?

[quote name='Solo Tremaine'][COLOR=#503f86]Kubo? Don't you mean Zetsu? [/COLOR] [COLOR=#503f86]Methinks you've been reading too much manga, Gav :p[/COLOR][/QUOTE] Actually, he means Kishimoto. Darn mangaka and their names both starting with K...

[quote name='chibi-master']How's Kisame gonna take the news about Itachi?![/QUOTE] Honestly, I'd guess he'd shrug it off. None of the Akatsuki really seem that attached to any other others, at least not from my point of view. Maybe Pein and that chick, but even then, I'd guess that's one-sided. Evil dudes can only be so personable, you know?

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Possible to get a Gin and Tousen vs Urahara and Isshin showdown?[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE] I don't know if we were supposed to have noticed that they're missing, so it sure seems likely they'll pop up in the real Karakura town. Sure would be nice to see them face off with Uruahara and Isshin. As long as those two get in on the action, I'll be happy (if they both survive that is >.

[quote name='chibi-master']And then Shino was hurting my head with his incomprehensible explanations! I guess I was mostly creeped out that Mr. Bug Happy was acting all scary 'cause he finally gets to fight someone...although I will admit that he really hasn't been given enough chances to fight...so maybe I'm judging him too early...maybe?[/QUOTE] Shino really is my second favorite character, so I for one am thrilled to see him get down to business. Naruto's reaction to Shino's explanation was priceless - he soooo doesn't understand Shino, ever. I'm hyped for the next few chapters. ^^ I'm glad Zetsu came out and said what we'd all been thinking about Itachi's behavior, though that would mean he'd been ever more handicapped from the start than I'd thought. What does that mean? And uber-lame win for Sasuke. Sasuke's collapse... I didn't see coming. Perhaps I should have. Any guesses on what Zetsu will do now...? "Yummy" I think is out of the question. Will he take Itachi's body away, or leave it? Probably leave it - my guess. He could finish Sasuke off, but yet again, that would be too much effort. I still want to know exactly what is up with that two-faced guy...

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]...and of course they both want to beat/kill Itachi for defeating them beforehand...[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Sorry, I couldn't help myself. ^^ About them getting along...they'd definitely have things in common, and I just think that both of them having such a strong urge to battle might nudge them into taking advantage of that. I don't think they'd [I]kill[/I] each other...more like just spar, finding it ideal to have the other one right there and willing to participate. I mean, whenever two people absolutely adore one thing and they find themselves together, it's hard for them not to bring that topic up. I [I]really[/I] would like to see Mr. Feral 'shinigami-up'. Kubo...? ...are you listening?

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Heck, maybe 11th Squad's Captain is going to get a new pet kitty with this arc. ^_^[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Kenpachi and Grimmjow fighting side by side would be quite a sight. Even if there was a tenuous alliance formed, I wonder who'd be the first to snap and provoke the other to a fight. Two egos that size couldn't help but rub each other the wrong way, well actually, to them, it might be considered the 'right way' if it leads to conflict. ^^ I think it would be an interesting twist to see the current #6 jump the fence. He has the potential to turn traitor; perhaps he will. Of course, then you always have to worry about him turning back...

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]O_O ...Yeah, obviously you didn't mean it in that context TC, but still, I did a double-take before I realised what you'd meant there. Heh. ^_~[/SIZE][/QUOTE] You know, when I wrote that, I also wrote a disclaimer explaining how ill and exhausted I was, but then I deleted it. Maybe I should've left it in. ^^

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]...there are plenty of other captains there too...[/SIZE][/QUOTE] A little detail that has me wriggling with delight. ^^ I want to see what Ukitake and Kyoraku can do when push comes to shove. And finally some old man action. Sweet. The whole "beginning" and "end" thing [I]could[/I] point to this being the last major thrust, though that "thrust" could take hundreds of chapters. I wonder how much more Kubo has in him...

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]It's odd, but actually, I'm convinced the poke to the head in the second last page wasn't just Itachi groping blindly and missing, or his realising that he didn't have enough strength or life left to take the eyes, I think that poke had a lot more significance than either of those two ideas.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] The near exact replication of that childhood scene, even the fact that Sasuke looks shockingly young when contrasted with Itachi, gives it a definite sense that Itachi intended for this to happen, he intended to give Sasuke a 'blast to the past'. I can't tell you the countless fanfics I've read in which Itachi finally confronts Sasuke meaning for it to end with his own death, a sort of "I'm sorry." I actually want to believe this action was his intent all along. That would give it much more significance, like you said Gavin. Whether it's an "I'm sorry" gesture, or more of a "Keep growing stronger, foolish little brother *heart*" or something else entirely, we'll probably be able to make that distinction pretty soon. I didn't want Itachi to go out this way. I didn't want him to go out at all. But, it is so exceedingly preferrable than having Sasuke be strong enough to kill him that I can't help but be more relieved than angry.

So, chapter 393... Yeah... My initial reaction isn't anger, so that's an improvement. We finally get to see that Sasuke in the end is powerless against Itachi. That part's satisfying, but not quite enough for me to leave feeling contented. So, Itachi's jutsu did have the same kind of feel as Yondaime's and the Third's, and now it's shown to be akin somehow. With the battle ending this way (since I do believe this is the official end) how long does everyone think Sasuke will stand there, dumbfounded, before everything sinks in? This kind of conclusion should boggle the crap out of his mind. Did Itachi's strength completely go right before getting his eyes and thus the head-poke alternative, or did he not intend to take them from the start? He's twisted enough to screw with Sasuke's mind like that, but would he actually do it? And I know people have asked this before, but really, what is Sasuke going to do now? He didn't really even get his revenge. It's more like he simply aided Itachi in committing suicide (if he knew that technique would have such a strong side-effect, that is). This is all very anti-climactic for him. Though, in its own way, this is kind of what had to happen for Sasuke's character to have any hope of redemption. I've said all along that if he really was the one that killed Itachi, there would be no coming back for him, not even a last minute Vader-like conversion. I know that just as many people as think Sasuke will repent think he won't, but we all know that Kishimoto wants us to wonder whether or not he will. It isn't supposed to be clean cut at this point. If things hadn't changed around at the end of this battle, Sasuke would have lost something inside that he'd need to ever turn around. Now, he still has it. But, what to do...

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Yeah, and I can completely see where you're coming from with your point TC, but we all know how much Ichigo worries about his friends' safeties. I wouldn't call what Ichigo did selfish from his point of view, he's a very private person, remember with his mother ? He never said anything to anyone, just walked the bank for hours and hours, it was only by luck Tatsuki found out. This is the same thing, he didn't want to risk putting them in danger by involving them in what he perceives to be his mess. Obviously yes it was selfish from Tatsuki's point of view, and the same for Asano and Mizuiro, because Ichigo had them worried about him and what was going on. Tatsuki was damn near heartbroken that he didn't seem to trust her any more, though I don't think that really fully clicked in Ichigo's mind. Despite being an elite Captain-level Shinigami, the boy still practically oblivious to other people, otherwise I'm pretty sure Byakuya would have a orange-haired niece or nephew irritating the hell out of him.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] I don't think we've ever seen him act in a way that he would consider selfish. He [I]is[/I] always looking out for those around him. But, being the little social doofus that he is, he doesn't realize that trying to carry everything on your shoulders and not sharing the load with your friends [I][B]is selfish[/B][/I]. It puts them in the situation of watching you suffer and not knowing why. Friends are supposed to be there for each other, but it goes both ways. Both sides of the friendship need to believe they can be there for the other person, and if one keeps too much to himself...things can fall apart. Too many people I know suffer in silence when, even if sharing the information wouldn't resolve the issue, it actually would comfort the person you turn to for help knowing that you're [I]willing[/I] to turn to them. Being willing to show yourself at your weakest, to express your anxieties and fears to someone else...that is a sign of true strength and maturity. If Ichigo could come to understand this and then do it himself, everyone around him would be much happier.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]True but Ichigo doesn't know that, or at least, doesn't seem to know it, and we all know how oblivious that boy can be sometimes. All he thinks is that after he brings back Orihime safely, he can explains everything to them properly as opposed to doing it beforehand, which would likely involve the three trying to accompany Ichigo and co, which in turn would likely lead to their deaths. At least, if I'm looking at it from Ichigo's correct perspective.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] I totally agree. Ichigo thinks he made the right choice not telling them. I'm not disputing that. I just know from personal experience that it is a far more cruel thing to leave someone knowing just a tiny bit of what is going on, as opposed to telling them everything but then forbidding they take action. I've been in both situations. At one time, I could tell something was going on with my father, but my parents kept it secret for weeks. It drove me crazy; I was irritable and angry the whole time. When they finally told me about it after the problem had been resolved, they said they'd avoided telling me because they were afraid I would have taken action and gotten involved, further complicating things. Well, that simply made me more angry. It showed me that they didn't trust me to let those capable of handling the problem do it themselves. It called into question my loyalty to them and my belief in their better judgement. That's what Ichigo is saying by leaving without explaining himself. His friends know good and well what their strengths are and it wouldn't take much of a demonstration for Ichigo to show them they'd be useless in trying to save Orihime. All he needed to do was tell them she was in trouble, show them he is a shinigami possessing great skill, and let them know he will handle it. That would be affording them the proper dignity and respect they deserve. Keeping people in the dark is selfish. It makes things easier for the one in the know, but that's all. What you don't know [I]can[/I] and often [I]does[/I] hurt you. If he let them in on everything, at least they could get acquainted with Urahara and perhaps learn how to protect themselves, or simply stay under his protection. All in all, I side with Tatsuki. Ichigo deserves to be slapped even though he wouldn't see it that way.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]So true, Ichigo will return to the real world after finally beating Aizen in about a hundred or so chapters and Tatsuki will still kick the crap out of him.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Something he will [I]so[/I] deserve for being stupid and not just explaining himself to his friends, causing them to be worried sick about him. That boy needs a good kick to the head and I'm sure Tatsuki would be more than willing to deliver it. This just goes to show that you should never anger someone that you're not allowed to fight back against.