Gavin

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. In regard to Phelps, I don't even know what to say, aside from the obvious statement that he should never be allowed step foot outside his door again under pain of life-imprisonment without the possibility of parole. A ****-spouter like that has no valid reason to ever even open his mouth. In regard to my area, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head, but one nutcase Irishman who comes to mind is definitely Neil Horan, how that man was not defrocked years ago is something of an enigma. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Horan[/url][/SIZE]

[quote name='Raiyuu][FONT=Trebuchet MS']Torture can't be considered an accurate means of information-gathering anyway. I'd probably admit I was a terrorist to, if I was getting electrocuted every time I denied it.[/FONT][/quote] [SIZE=1]Quoted for truth, ask anyone who has any kind of experience with intelligence gathering and they'll tell you torture is one of the least reliable forms to extract information. If you torture someone enough, eventually they'll tell you whatever you want to hear, just so you'll stop torturing them. Disturbingly however, it appears this new bill will allow the use of testimony procured through coercion, which reading through the lines probably means torture. Despite being a Republican by alignment, I have to say, this is one of those times I'm really sorry that the party retook the White House. Does anyone else notice how George Bush's presidency is mirroring the rise of Chancellor Palpatine's from Star Wars ?[/SIZE]

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']Stories like indifference are exactly why I have support the death penalty, because over the years, time and time again I keep hearing about such dangerous criminals being let back out only to kill and harm again. And yet on the other hand, if our system was to shape up and at least try to do a better job of keeping them off the streets then I would have no problem with doing away with the death penalty. My sole desire is to see that such people never harm anyone again. So in that respect you and I agree, they need to be locked into a small cell for the rest of their lives.[/quote] [SIZE=1]I can definitely understand yours and indifference's point of views on the subject, but having grown up in a country that doesn't execute it's capital offenders, I guess I just can't see any truly valid reason to kill anyone no matter how horrific their crimes. But more than that, I feel in the end if we need to resort to executing prisoners, then as you said the fault lies with our justice systems for allowing dangerous individuals likely to reoffend from getting out of prison again. It's in those kinds of situations that I think the scumbag lawyer who was able to free his client should be thrown into prison with him, anyone who'll risk public safety for money should be imprisoned, no ifs, ands or buts.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=indifference][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]On some level my feelings come from personal experience. The person who killed my brother had killed before. And since it was his first offense they let him plea bargain and he only spent a short time in jail. Then shortly upon being release he went back to the gang he had belonged to and in less than a year he was involved in a drive by shooting that took the life of my brother and another innocent person when one of the bullets they fired went between two homes, entered the window of someone else's living room and killed one of their sons. I am sorry if I seem a bit melodramatic, but the memory of realizing that the blood splatter on me was from my brother being shot in the head is something I will never forget. Nor the moment when I realized that he was dead. All because we were walking down the street and the person shooting did not care that there were two innocent people on the sidewalk in front of the house they wanted to shoot at. They could have easily waited a mere minute or two for us to pass by the house before driving by and shooting. But they didn't care at all. My family did not press for the death penalty as my parents did not wish it, but he did receive a life sentence without parole and I sincerely hope that he never gets out again. It just seems to me that someone like that doesn't intend to change their ways and if we aren't going to keep them locked up then we need to make sure they never hurt anyone again.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]Your story and dozens of other like it indifference are the very reason I support life without parole sentences in the first place. When it comes to offenders like the person who killed your brother, those who intentionally take life without any remorse and then are released from prison having served a pathetically short sentence for a terrible crime should not have such leniency given to them. They should be locked into a small cell for the rest of their miserable life and let out for only the briefest times as law allows, they are scum, but as Alex has pointed out, it takes years for someone to actually be executed after their crime has been committed. With an entire-life sentence, the day they go into prison, that's it, no getting out until you go into the ground. While we need to continue to be civilised in our justice systems, there is no need to be overly lenient when it comes to the worst of the worst, respecting human life by not executing them is one thing, but confining them to a tiny environment for decades for their crimes is not only feasible but would serve as a better deterrent against criminals. I know you feel the DP is a prevention method rather than a deterrent, and often those who kill without remorse give no thoughts to the consequences, but I think after the first twenty years of imprisonment, the "I'm going to die in here" factor might set in. As for sunfallE's story, that driver shouldn't have been allowed near a car after his first vehicular homicide, let alone his second. Whatever justice system you're brother depended on for a fair and amicable sentence really screwed the pooch there.[/SIZE]

[quote name='only1specialed']im sorry but i dont agree with that. im glad that some of those detanees were tortured do you think they care about me and my men when we get captured in iraq. remeber the beheading videos they sent out. so what if some of them get torture. that way we get the information we need to help get key people and help us survive. now if these "terrorist" were to follow the geneva conventions like we are forced then yes thats wrong but they dont and thats why its easier for them to attack us than it is for us to attack them. what really pisses me off is that news of those secret holding cells became public cause now the terrorist can use that for their recruiting campaign... you guys probably wont see it from my oint of view but after being in the military for a while you look at things differently.....sorry im just ranting now[/quote] [SIZE=1]No offence only1specialied, but you're not the only one here to have served or have family who haved served in a nations armed forces. Three of my outer-family are currently members of the Irish Defense Force, two of whom served as peace-keepers for the U.N. and when the news of the torture of Iraqi's by American forces came to light they were just as sickened as I was. In their mind, the fact that they'd fought "the good fight" as they like to call it, it is even more offensive to them to torture these people for information, especially given the number of truth serums/agents that have been developed. And besides, Abu Ghraib was a big enough recruiting campaign for Islamic terrorists, so I don't think these "torture sessions" are going to make much of a difference.[/SIZE]

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue']I think it?s a pity that the Death Penalty isn?t use more than it already is. If you murder someone then what right do you have to continue living? Especially when criminals who murder can and will murder again given the chance.[/COLOR][/quote] [SIZE=1]Yes... because we all know that no criminal has ever felt remorse for their crimes, or why it is the case that so many criminals before their execution ask for the forgiveness of the family of their victim/s. You've basically stated plainly there that all murderers invariably go out and murder again on their release, typically however, those criminals who do represent a continued threat to society do not make parole, thus keeping them off the streets. In fact I've noticed that nobody has even made reference to parole boards yet.[/SIZE] [QUOTE=indifference][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]I hear all the same old arguments about how it?s revenge about how it?s savage and yet it?s like people are so concerned with their personal image that they don?t care of others end up dead just so we can maintain the illusion that the human race is more civilized. If we were really [I]civilized[/I] then people wouldn?t murder others in the first place. If someone kills another human being I see no point in turning around and giving them another chance to do it again. It?s like saying here I?m a door mat come and walk all over me again because you missed a spot! [/COLOR][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]There is no illusion of civilisation, most people generally strive to become better and that's civilisation in it's purest form. And we do care plenty when someone kills someone else, if we didn't, there'd be no punishment for the murderer, instead they face lengthy prison sentences, or even as the case you're pushing remains, the death penalty. In fact the illusion of civilisation will only be maintained as long as we actively put down our fallen members of society like some kind of rabid animal. Of course it's far easier to look at someone who's killed as less than human, they're shed whatever right they had to be treated with some semblance of mercy, because you know civilisation is just a facade and behind it we're still the frightened primitives we were a hundred thousand years ago. We punish people for killing, and yet on the other hand say that if someone commits a grievous enough crime, then we're legally entitled as a group to have them executed, that smacks of hypocrisy whatever way you look at it.[/SIZE] [QUOTE=indifference][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]It?s easy to think that the families of loved ones are only after revenge when you yourself have never experienced the horror of realizing that the blood splattered all over your clothes are not yours but the blood of your loved one. That the one pulling the trigger didn?t care if you got in the way of their attempt to kill another person. Wanting the death penalty is about wanting to make sure no one else has to go through what you did, that another life is not ended. That another family does not have to suffer as you did when your loved one was murdered. It?s easy to think life without parole is the answer, but the justice system is horrible flawed in that criminals often make deals to lesson their charges, or often end up being paroled anyway. And many end up back on the streets and kill yet again.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]So what, you're saying that effectively because the criminal didn't care about his victims that we should just put him down in case some fancy lawyer might be able to cut a deal with the police and have him freed after a short stay in one of our more pleasant maximum security prisons ? You do realise indifference that it is often poorer, less educated individuals who end up on death row, as the rich can generally buy their way to a lower sentence, and if these same people can't even get a decent lawyer to defend them, there's a far less significant chance they'll be able to cut a deal with the police for a shorter or commuted sentence. Maybe we should just allow the family to set the sentence, or better yet, let them carry it out as well. I'm pretty sure we could find new depths to plumb with that option. [/SIZE] [quote name='indifference][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue']The death penalty isn?t a deterrent against keeping it from happening in the first place, it?s a deterrent to stop the murderer from killing again. How many innocent people have died because we were too soft and unwilling to deal with those who will kill if given a chance? Our world isn?t perfect and doing away with the death penalty won?t magically make people quit killing. Strengthening the level of prosecution and sentence to keep the killers from getting back on the streets will. And if a murderer is dead, then no one else will die at their hands. [/COLOR][/quote] [SIZE=1] Again we're back to the treating them like an animal, because they can't possibly learn from what they've done, after all they're savage creatures who's only purpose is to continue to perpetrate a system so draconian and uncivilised that no truly civilised country in the world continues it, and on that note I'll add this dandy little hyperlink to illustrate my point. [url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Death_Penalty_World_Map.png[/url] [[b]Edit[/b]] Another useful hyperlink. [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_worldwide[/URL] As for whether the death penalty has any effect on crime rates, the tackling of the source of crime, poverty and a lack of education would have a far greater effect, as opposed to us debating the morality of putting our criminals "to sleep".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060929/ap_on_go_co/congress_terrorism[/url] The link you provided Alex doesn't seem to be working, or rather it asks for you to Log In or Register. In response to the actual article, I can only be very grateful that I'm not a terror suspect being held by the United States. The whole feel of this Bill is one of "ends justify the means" and while I completely oppose torturing suspects or using coerced evidence in a military court, what I find most disturbing however is the fact that President Bush is now free to "interpret" the Third Gevena Convention, despite the fact that it seems relatively straight forward in it's current incarnation. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention[/url] Perhaps this is simply a political ploy for the Republican Party to gain voters by looking tough on terrorists, perhaps not. In the current climate of fear perpetuated throughout the world, I have to wonder whether sacrificing some of our high morals in order to achieve results in the so-called "War on Terror" is something we can learn to live with. Often these kinds of Bills/Laws enter quickly and take years to get rid of when their validity/legality is called into question.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. Like a few others here I'm in full time education, so whatever job I pick up is usually only a week or two long depending on the holiday time and I'm glad with whatever I get. Most recently I was working as a painter's assistant on this eighteenth century manor only a few miles away from where I live, there were only three of us to paint this massive house and the funny part is that it took more time for the people who owned the manor to pick a paint than it did for us to actually finish the job. I didn't get an hourly wage, and in reality I was working well under minimum wage for what I was doing, putting in about nine hours a day, eight to six every day including a lunch hour, more than once though I went over that to the point of a twelve hour day. However, the work was enjoyable in it's own way and I got a great tan. In the end I walked away with ?300 in cash for six days work, so I was on about ?5 an hour, roughly 20% less than minimum wage. Still though, it paid the bills and I'd do it over again.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. Well as the phrase was coined, "sex sells" and Ms Salma Hayek is definitely a very attractive woman. However like so many things in the media, when something become gratuitous it loses it's affect, for instance how many of us don't even blink when someone is shot on TV any more ? As for my own experiences with "pointless nudity" well any time Dunnes Stores, who are one of Ireland's biggest supermarket and department store chains launch any new form of women's lingerie, they seem to delight in showing as little of their product as possible and instead focus on the models. Obviously of course this is to make people believe that by wearing Dunnes stuff, you'll look fabulous, regardless of how you look in your undergarments.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]I'm not going to quote every single pro-DP post since I've last replied to this thread as it would simply take too long, however Ken your pursuit of the eye-for-an-eye solution is highly flawed. While a good majority of OB's members are Americans, there are plenty of us who aren't, who do come from countries where the Death Penalty is not part of the penal system. And it's not as if any country who doesn't execute it's murderers is suddenly overwhelmed with crimes the moment their murderers are released. Take for instance in Ireland we have massive problems with road deaths, should anyone who causes a road death be put into a car and slammed into a brick wall at seventy miles and hour to ensure that they will never be the cause of such a death again ? Our respective criminal systems still continue to support the idea "Innocent until proven guilty", and given the numbers of people who have been exonerated of their crimes while on death row, it leads one to wonder exactly why such an obviously flawed and draconian system of punishment is kept in operation. To give another example seeing as you effectively believe that you deserve the punishment of your crime, i.e. murder for murder, should someone who insults another person over race/creed/gender/orientation/etc have their tongue cut out ? It's a relatively simple procedure that only barely disables the person who is forced to have their tongue removed, and this way at least they can't ever insult anyone again. By this time the absurdity of this and your argument should be setting in. To Aaryanna_Mom, "putting your foot down" by confining someone to a small cell for the rest of their existence with only brief reprieves for some fresh air and exercise seems enough for me. Maybe if someone close to me was murdered, my brother, mother, father, sister whatever, I might be inclined to demand the person who committed the crime be killed as punishment, but in doing so, I'm basically dropping down to that person's level by demanding their life in retribution for my loss. Justice should never be about revenge, justice is a system designed to take into account the crime and serve a fit punishment, not to sate the bloodlust of the victims family. I mean Jesus, allowing the family to actually watch the person being executed is a sick, sick thing, nobody wins in that scenario. [/SIZE] [quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray']If you're going to kill someone, just use lethal injection. [/color][/quote] [SIZE=1]Lethal injection is actually the most sadistic of all executions in my mind, at least of modern ones, the LI actually stops your lungs before it stops your heart, while paralysing you, ergo you actually suffocate to death without being able to alert people to your predicament. Now regardless of a person's crime, suffocating them while they're paralysed is a really screwed up way to kill anyone.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Just thought of a new contender which blows my previous entry out of the water, over the last few weeks, since I've been planning on taking my provisional driving test, I've been trying to figure out what kind of car I might be able to afford after I pass, long story short, I fell in love with the VW Bus. About a week ago I was browsing through a knick-knack store and I saw a Bus piggy-bank for ?15, way more than any piggy-bank is worth, but it was a VW Bus so I had to buy it. [[b]Edit[/b]] [b][url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Vw_bus_t1_v_sst.jpg/800px-Vw_bus_t1_v_sst.jpg]Pwnage[/url][/b][/SIZE]

[quote name='YoukaiAlchemist']My gramma is in the hospital. Her carbon-dioxide is double what it should be and mom thinks she won't last the night. I'm trying to get as many people as i can to do whatever they think will help--like charms or prayers, or well-wishes, or whatever--so that she'll get better. I know if everyone helps, she'll be ok. so please do whatever you can. I'll owe you one.[/quote] [SIZE=1]I really don't know what to say Youkai, I hope your grandmother's condition improves as I know what it's like to lose an older relative very close to you. Just out of curiosity, is your grandmother a smoker ? When you said your grandmothers' CO2 levels were twice what they should have been, it kind of raised that flag in my mind.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Ezekiel][SIZE=1][SIZE=1]I know that picture makes them look like balloons, but I'm pretty sure it was when they died that they, er, deflated.[/SIZE'] [/SIZE][/quote] [SIZE=1] That would have been my thoughts as well from Chabi's original description, generally when jellyfish die, their entire body begin to shrivel making them look significantly different to their original form. I'm afraid my zoological knowledge of Arabian jellyfish is rather poor, however the Bluebottle is in fact another name for the Portuguese Man o' War which is not a jellyfish. Can't be of help for what it is without having seen it, sorry Chabi. [/SIZE]

[quote name='vegeta rocker']So have you ever purchased something uber geeky that you knew totally wasn't worth it but thought it was awesome anyway?[/quote] [SIZE=1] If you don't count every recent Star Wars novel on the day they're released, I tend not to buy many geeky things. ^_^' In answer to the question however, the answer has to be the Star Wars version of Trivial Pursuit, the one that covers both Sagas. I bought it knowing that nobody in my family knew nearly enough about SW trivia, but being able see bits of Episode III either before or after it was released [I can't remember exactly when I bought it] was so worth what I parted with for it. [/SIZE]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]It's scary, almost. You and I agree, almost word for word. However, I think that rehabilitating a murder is a pointless process. If they are rehabiilitated, are they actually fit to leave jail? Is that fair? Anyway, it actually costs less to jail someone for life than to give them the death penalty. The economic drain is coming from those who are seeking the death penalty.[/size][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1] For me it would depend very much on the murder, I prefer not to buy into the idea that every murderer is completely remorseless about their crime, crime by nature is brought on more so by need than desire. I mean if we take the case where a man finds his wife in bed with another guy and kills them in a fit of rage, I could certainly understand that after a number of years (say 10-15) of rehabilitation he could be fit to rejoin society. The problem is however with keeping them locked up for decades at a time is that once they become institutionalised, they have no idea how to function in the outside world. And really it's nearly as cruel to send them back out without any prospect for life than it is to keep them confined. As for the cost, I always thought it would be cheaper to execute someone than to feed, clothe and keep them warm their entire life. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. I really don?t know what to think, I suppose it?s only a matter of time before American police and sheriff forces are actively deployed in schools to prevent this sort of thing from occurring again, and again, and again. It just seems that there?s relatively little anyone can do to prevent a maniac from getting a gun and either taking hostages and then killing one when he/she realises they?re backed into a corner. The hostage-taker disgusts me, all of his kind do. It?s a shame he didn?t survive, he deserved to be locked up in a small room for the rest of his life for being such a coward as to kill a child. At least he?s dead and can?t hurt anyone every again.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. I got into Metallica in early high school after seeing the music video "I Disappear" and have had a kind of on and off interest with the group since then. Given I'm a far bigger movie fan than a music lover, Metallica still comprises roughly half of my CD collection. However the older I get, I must admit the less I am into the group, I'll listen to Load occasionally, and I rarely go a day without listening to some of the covers on Garage Inc, but as they're covers I'm not sure if that really counts.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. It should come as little surprise to anyone that I oppose the death penalty in every way, shape and form. When a society begins to activity kill it's own citizens for the crimes they have committed, then in my mind that's a step backwards in civilisation rather than a step forward, regardless of a person's crimes, nobody has the right to sentence another person to die. Personally I advocate rehabilitation where possible, and full life sentences where rehabilitation is not possible. I know some people will read that and think that it is unrealistic to confine every capital offender for their entire lives, from an economic point of view and perhaps even a humanitarian point of view. However, when we began activity looking at those fallen members of our society as simply a financial drain that could be more easily removed with a quick execution, then I do think we've become rather cynical and cold-hearted.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. Given we're studying The Tragedy of Othello for Leaving Cert English at the moment, I must admit that has my interest rather piqued. Taking John's last sentiment into account, despite the fact that this is loosely based on actual OB history, I think that "Tragedy" bit in the title sort of gave us an idea of how the ending was going to go. Nevertheless I'm definitely keeping my eye on this fanfic, and wonder exactly how the villainous Desbreko shall strike against those around him, or if our dear Event Master shall have servants as loyal as he is to James. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. Given that very few of my teachers probably surf the internet on a regular basis, I could probably hand them up a carefully reworked Wikipedia article and they'd be none the wiser. However as most people have already agreed, while Wikipedia is fine for checking out info on games/books/general surfing/etc, the potential for information to be inaccurate to the point of being downright crap is enough to prevent me from using it on any high school projects that would affect my grades. [/SIZE] [quote name='DeadSeraphim][COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]You want to wipe out the page about Power Rangers and replace it with 'The Power Rangers suck cock'[/FONT][/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote] [SIZE=1]Thank you DS for the best laugh I've had this week. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. I have to admit Jamie, from the time I actually finished reading the thread, to the time I've managed to collect my thoughts has been considerable. The Nanking Massacre was completely unknown to me before now, my knowledge of the Second World War is confined more so to Europe and Africa. My initial reaction to many Japanese people refusing to admit wrong-doing in this affair was a lack of surprise, many cultures refuse to acknowledge wrongs done in war, and World War II was most certainly one of the most brutal on a global scale. However the deaths of 370,000 innocent civilians are not the same as the deaths of 370,000 soldiers, nor are the torture and murder of said civilians excusable under any pretence of war. Overall I'm impressed with the piece of work, though I do agree with Alex when he says that you should try and add your own perspective, of a European becoming more aware of Asian history "in this new millennium" to the event.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. Having seen only one episode of House on my way back from Australia earlier this year, I'm not exactly sure what to make of the show. I enjoyed Laurie's rather caustic and cynical attitude towards his profession in the face of the facade of altruism most doctors present themselves with. Again with only one episode it's hard to make definitive statements, but overall I enjoyed the mixture of drama and medicine, not too heavy like ER can be on occasions and hopefully they'll start running it on an Irish network so I can see it.[/SIZE]

[quote name='F.O.Y.][COLOR=DarkOrange]I'm going with the scars. It just seems way to specific to be something you just came right up with. I could be wrong, though.[B] #1[/B'][/COLOR][/quote] [SIZE=1]F.O.Y. made the correct guess, counting them all I have ten scars of various sizes on my hands. So then, on to the next round, F.O.Y. at your convenience.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. I was actually discussing this topic with one of my teachers not too long ago, as she was lamenting one of her children wanted to go see a movie they were not legally old enough to see by themselves and wanted to go anyway. Having been in the position of the child only six years ago, my advice was pretty succinct, ratings are there to give a parent an idea of the level of gore/horror/sexuality they can expect from a film, and if they feel that's inappropriate for their child then they're entirely within their right to tell them no, they can't see it. By the time we hit our mid teens, thirteen/fourteen/fifteen we develop an odd notion that we're old enough to have seen and done enough to make our own decisions, and that our parents don't know what they're talking about. That's not a broadshot at anyone, I'm speaking from personal experience. We think that we know everything and that we should be allowed do/see anything because we're so mature and yada yada yada. ********, by the time we hit our mid teens we're probably at our most ignorant in the ways of the world, and this is made even worse by the fact we don't realise it. Movies should have ratings, there's no doubt in my mind about that, a child/teen should not be allowed walk into an 18s movie just because they feel like it, because whoever rated the film feels that only an adult is old enough to see it for what it is. Parents need to be responsible to their children without turning into police, we learn from our experiences good and bad, and over protective parents are as bad as those who offer none.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting. Back in high school about a month at this stage so I have a fairly good impression of most of my Leaving Cert subjects. So far out of the six, maths, French, English, chemistry, biology and business, my favourite is probably biology simply because it's by far the most interesting, made so by a teacher who has actually some interest in teaching and imparting an enjoyment of biology to her students. Currently we're on cellular examination with light microscopes, and though classes at 40 minutes are a bit short, it's enough to make the experiments worth the wait.[/SIZE]