Gavin

[SIZE=1]I agree with Arcadia here, I'd have posted more often only I wasn't exactly sure how this was to proceed, I'd hate to have someone write up a really good post and then have to scarp it because of me. A few guidelines are always helpful for those stories which are totally original in design, though in saying that I'm hoping others might involve me a little as I'm becoming a bit of a loner...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Well might as well keep up the steam as we've got this thing moving. [i]You can see the run-down of the new Weapons Systems in my latest post in the[/i] [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=41724][b]Underground thread[/b][/url]. [CENTER]---------------[/CENTER] [I]Ventarris watched as Lieutenant Azalee covered her eyes as the Commander walked out, at first he'd been tempted to rush back into the Bathroom and try and find something to put on, however since everything had already recycled his dirty clothes he was stuck. Feigning confidence he strode over to the replicator and ordered a new uniform while the Lieutenant was still standing with her back to him, he decided it was rude to leave her waiting in the hall, even if he was half naked.[/I] [b]Ventarris:[/b] [[I]Calmly[/I]] Lieutenant, you can come in if you wish. [b]Azalee:[/b] [[I]Somewhat hesitant[/I]] Thank you, I though you'd like some privacy first. [b]Ventarris:[/b] [[I]Jokingly[/I]] Well I didn't expect anyone to be standing in my doorway. [I]Ventarris quickly ducked into the bathroom and changed into uniform, he came close in ending up on the floor several times from his haste though he managed to avoid such an embarrassment. Striding back out to the Lieutenant he found her admiring one of the pieces of artwork on his walls, a Mediterranean scene from Earth. It was a painting he'd found in the computer database on Jupiter Station that he'd taken to, he couldn't remember the title or the name of the artist but it was still a lovely piece of work.[/I] [b]Ventarris:[/b] [[I]Sincerely[/I]] Lovely isn't it ? [b]Azalee:[/b] [[I]Honestly[/I]] Yes sir, very peaceful looking. [b]Ventarris:[/b] [[I]Inquisitively[/I]] Can I do something from you Lieutenant Azalee ? [b]Azalee:[/b] [[I]Dutifully[/I]] The Captain requests your presence of the bridge, the Tactical Officer has just reported in and since you were to one who supervised the integration of the Advanced Weapons Pod as well as the new Phasers he'd like you to brief Lieutenant Ikor. [b]Ventarris:[/b] Of course, please lead the way Lieutenant. [I]Ventarris followed the Azalee into the Turbo-Lift until it reached the bridge, there were still some of the Starbase?s Engineers at different consoles which lead him to believe they were making some minor tweaks to the new Weapons. The Captain was sitting in his chair speaking to an Engineer in regard to their Chief Medical Officer, he found it odd though let it go by for now, the Engineer had obviously finished as she walked quickly into the Turbo-Lift. Ventarris wondered what that was all about though the Captain answered the question before he could even ask it...[/I][/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Well as this is the Underground thread for [B]Brightstar[/B] I suppose this is the place to ask questions about the RPG and the charcters, post suggestions or ask for help if you're a little lost. As First Officer I'd also like to see everyone posting more often as there's a danger of the RPG going stagnant which would be a shame as it's the first good Star Trek ever on Otakuboards. Balmon has made a good point too, an OOCs or questions should be diverted here. [CENTER]---------------[/CENTER] Just also of note to everyone involved I made a mistake in describing the Advanced Weapons Pod, though in saying that there isn?t a description for an Advanced Weapons Pod so I?m just basing it off the description for a normal Weapons Pod. Bill and I discussed adding more firepower to the Brightstar and thought that an Advanced Weapons Pod would be the way to go, the Pod itself will be located on the centre of the saucer section just above Deck 1. [b]The Advanced Weapons Pod:[/b] [I]2x Rapid Fire Quantum Torpedo Turrets. 3x Type 4 Burst Fire Torpedo Launchers. 1x Tri-Cobalt Torpedo Launcher. 600 Quantum Torpedoes. 12 Tri-Cobalt Torpedoes.[/I] Other than adding an Advanced Weapons Pod, Starbase 969 has also integrated 5 new Type XII Phasers into the Brightstar, brining the total number to 10. However there was only enough space for 3 of the 5 Phasers to be mounted into the hull, to overcome this problem 2 of the Rapid Fire Torpedo tubes had to be removed, brining down to 4 the number of Rapid Fire tubes. Overall the Brightstar?s armaments look something like this: [I]10x Type XII Phasers, total output 56,950 TeraWatts. 4x Rapid Fire Torpedo Tubes. 2x Rapid Fire Quantum Torpedo Turrets 3x Type 4 Burst Fire Torpedo Launchers 1x Tri-Cobalt Torpedo Launcher 1,400 Quantum Torpedoes. 12 Tri-Cobalt Torpedoes.[/I] I also noticed that the [B]Defensive Systems[/b] was incomplete for the Insignia, or possibly they had difficulty with the HTML. I?ve tried to match it as correctly as possible to what it probably is though I admit I might be way off as the total shield capacity is not given in most ships. We are given the total shield output on the Insignia Class though not the type of shielding she possesses, I?ve ventured the guess from the Avenger Class because of the fact that the Insignia?s shield output is roughly twice that of a Jupiter Class which has an Auto-Modulated Shield System. [b]Defensive Systems[/b] [I]Auto modulated high capacity shield system, maximum shield output 8,950,580 Terra Jules. Ablative Armour Matrix (which I would assume is similar to that used by Voyager in her Series Finale). Heavy Duranium/Tritanium double hull.[/I] Well that?s about it, I hope people benefit from this or I?m going to go and kick my own *** for wasting time doing this. [/size]

[SIZE=1]I remember seeing the ads for this on telly a while back when it was in the cinemas. I never actually got to go see it but I remember laughing in a kind of simple glee at most of the gags in it. The title is one of the most clever and yet silly things about the Film, though I have to admit any Zombie comedy would have an easy time driving me into fits of laughter. I must make a personal note to rent the film when it actually comes out to video.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Well since Alex got to Zeta's post first I'll just make my own judgements on what he/she's said.[/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']It is a known fact that the Empire came to be through the hidden plans of Palpatine. Forgot who said that the Rebellion is evil because of its dealing with operations and similar things in the shadows, hiding basically. But if that causes the Rebellion to be evil, then it only shows that the Empire is evil too since it came about in the same way as the Rebellion, which is what I have been saying.[/quote] [SIZE=1]As I've been saying it's not a clear "[I]Good and Evil[/I]" issue, both groups are as capable of evil and under-handed tactics as one another, however we only see The Empire committing such acts at first glance. I've never said that it's The Empire who is good and The Rebels who are evil, what I've said is that we see only the best about The Rebellion and only the worst about The Empire. The Empire is evil yes, but I disagree that it's as evil as it's been made out to be in the Original Trilogy, the same way I disagree The Rebellion is by a long margin as good as it's made out to be. [/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']Did the Empire try all they could to get the Rebels to show their face on Alderaan? If they are indeed concerned about the innocents, would they not have tried to give them a chance to surrender? No such chance was given.[/quote] [SIZE=1]The Empire didn't have to because Alderaan proved to be the perfect target to test the Death Star, a largely populated Core World that supported the Rebellion. In the opening scenes of [b]A New Hope[/b] we see Vader's Star Destroyer capture Princess Leia consular ship, do the Rebel's try to surrender ? No they armed themselves and tried to shoot off the Imperial Forces who made their way onto the ship. I think we can see the Rebels weren't even interested in surrendering and as such the same point could have been made towards their garrison on Alderaan. If the Rebels were so interested in the safety of the people of Alderaan why didn't they surrender first ?[/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']In a previous post, Kane I think it was, said that the DS was built for the sole purpose of inciting fear into the Rebellion, and into any other type of revolt I am assuming. Had it not been destroyed, and with the Rebellion still going, only more planets would become known to house the Rebels. Which would then lead to the use of the DS again, which is more than a one-time use of it. For other uprisings with no bearing on the Rebels themselves, the DS would be brought in, and used if need be. No, the DS was made for more than a one time use, one clearly obvious reason being that the Rebellion would not die with the destruction of Alderaan, thus leading to more bases having to be uncovered and destroyed.[/quote] [SIZE=1]Siren summed up pretty much what I was going to say here, and what I'd been saying about the Death Star in general. After the destruction of Alderaan many of those planet with heavy populations would have been less inclined to give the Rebels safe haven for fear of the Death Star's power. The fact is that even though the Death Star only destroyed a single planet it still showed how far The Empire was willing to go to defeat The Rebellion. We see at the beginning of [b]The Empire Strikes Back[/b] that the Rebels have moved their base to the Hoth System, why ? Was it out of choice by Rebel Command to relocate only to systems or planets with minimal populations [u]or[/u] could it have been that many of the planets which had once supported them suddenly decided they didn't want to bring such destruction to their world. I hadn't meant that the Death Star would be used once and then mothballed, what I had meant was that one use alone would do significantly more damage to the Rebellion than it's Super Laser. The fact that planetary government's could see that their treason might lead to their destruction would be more powerful than any Super Laser the Empire might develop as a weapon against Rebel supporters.[/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']I bring in the EU, because Kane and others brought in the EU. So I just assumed it is all right to use for reference. If using the EU is still allowed, here is quite a large action where the Republic does in fact think of the civilians. THe Vong bio-agent, capable of defeating an enemy that has been basically kick their butts since day one. I again ask, do they use it as a quick and easy way to defeat the Vong? No they do not. One major worry among the leaders was the overall effect on the planets ecosystem, what types of problems would arise if it came in contact with humans.[/quote] [SIZE=1]Again my point was that in the face of total annihilation at that time The Republic was foolish not to use the pathogen to destroy Vong forces. I do not agree with the use of Weapons of Mass destruction however in that case it may have been warranted if it would save the [b]entire[/b] galaxy from certain destruction. [/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']But again, you have to look at the whole picture. The Rebellion is there to end the rule of the Empire, because of the way the people themselves are treated. Without representation in the Senate quite a lot of people get angry. Kane says that they Empire acts for their people, which is only Imperial humans. What about the other species, humans are probably outnumbered by the sheer amount of alien species in the galaxy, and yet they have no representation. They are basically seen as not worthwhile in any sense. How does that say the Empire is not evil in a way. A racist ruling body that won't hesitate to destroy a planet for the sake of a "few." Again realize, that the Empire didn't give a chance for the Rebels to come out. Hell, going by the movies, there wasn't even a radio transmission demanding the Rebels come out or else. The Empire didn't try to reduce innocent deaths, had they cared about it as you said, they would have given an ultimatum(sp) for them to give up or else. If they didn't come out, then I can see where they may have cared about innocent lives but had no other choice, but they didn't. In no way is that trying to protect the innocent.[/quote] [SIZE=1]People were angry about the lack-of speed and corruption of The Old Republic as well, so I think you're point must be taken with a pinch of salt. As that saying goes you can't please all of the people all of the time. The fact is that Imperial Senate was still active until the [u]beginning[/u] of [B]A New Hope[/b], which means that non-humans still had representation up until that point, so you're point is technically moot. You're point about the "few Rebels" on Alderaan has already been dealt with so I'm going to ignore it. Again I bring up that the Rebellion was founded by three of the most ambitious Senators in the Old Republic and as such I think their ideals must be questioned before we treat Bail as a martyr. I've dealt with the whole surrender issue already so I'll disregard it too.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1][I]Van felt the tug of gravity as the ship's engines engaged, his doppelganger now sat with his arms folded only a meter of so away from Van. He drew in a breath and got up off the ground, he wondered how big this "[I]place[/I]" was, though it was unlikely his counterpart would merely let him explore. Brushing off his trousers more so out of habit than requirement he walked over to the figure and began to observe him. His phantom seemed annoyed by this sudden attention and rose himself, Van chuckled, perhaps he'd be able to return some of the torture he'd caused Van. Van wondered when they'd reach Deimos, a gigantic rock where many innocent people had met their doom. He continued to follow the spectre that had haunted him, it amused Van to see the agitated look on his face, he so mighty once had now become so shy that Van was no longer afraid of him. The whiteness expanded in all directions so he had no idea how large this environment was, though it did occur to him that this was just a projection of some kind in his head. His assailant grew even more angry at Van's pursuit, he growled in an almost primal fashion as Van approached.[/I] [b]Figure:[/b] [[I]Caustically[/I]] Well you seem to be enjoying yourself, though since you'll be here forever that may be to your advantage. [b]Van:[/b] [[I]As Caustic[/I]] If I had something to eat I might be more comfortable. [b]Figure:[/b] [[I]Malevolently[/I]] Or perhaps you'd like to be able to breathe ? [I]Van grabbed his throat trying to draw in air, he fell to his knees gasping, like a fish drawn cruelly out of water. His spectre stood above him a smirk drawn clearly across his face, it was obvious to him at least who held the power here. He found himself covered in some kind of a green slime, and he tried frantically to pry it off his skin. His doppelganger now broke into a fit of laughter at Van's plight, an base laugh that echoed hatred. Van fell to the ground and was sure he was going to die, instead a large glob of that same gel spewed forth from his mouth like a discoloured vomit. His gasped loudly trying to draw as much air as possible into his lungs, "What a sick creature he thought". He demon now knelt down beside Van, smiling still it picked up a handful of the same gel that had covered Van, he crushed it in his palm and the wiped it off before speaking.[/I] [b]Figure:[/b] [[I]Cheerfully[/I]] Well we've arrived at Deimos, I hope you enjoy it as it's going to be the last place you ever see. If you do survive long enough look me up. [[I]Laughs again before clicking his fingers[/I]] [I]Van's eyes opened and he found himself looking directly into those of Trini who was but half an inch from his face, he smiled before trying weakly to speak...[/I][/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Well as I said to you before Bill I?ve been looking forward to this with a great sense of excitement since you told me about the idea a week or so ago. I had planned to do something of this nature before Vicky beat me to it in her RPG, though I guess I still had my Star Wars one, which got a few votes in RPG of the Year. Since there are 13 characters available to play as, 9 of which can be customised to a degree, I would assume we could have more than one of each race (excluding the Hobbits since there are 4 of them to begin with). Other than that I?m wondering where we start off, Rivendell or The Shire ?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Damn when OB went down yesterday I'd this post just finished, Zeta it deals with most of the points you put to me in your second/third last post.[/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']First I would like to point out, the final NJO book has been out for quite awhile, thus allowing me to know the outcome. ;-)[/quote] [SIZE=1]My apologies I wasn't aware that the book was out yet, though in saying that I must now go out and purchase the book.[/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']The no weapons on Alderaan was in the EU. I don't know where exactly, but I read it in the Official Star Wars Encyclopaedia. I will search for the book and give you the exact entry. And to Kane, the planet doesn't allow weapons on it, it doesn't disband Alderaan natives to use weapons outside of the planet. And it wasn't Bail who banned weapons, it was done long before his time.[/quote] [SIZE=1]I believe that "[I]No Weapons[/I]" bit comes from the EU section of Alderaan in the StarWars.com Database. Actually we don't know for sure whether they do allow weapons on Alderaan or not because there are conflicting "facts" on both sides of the argument. And it was actually Bail who banned weapons on Alderaan shortly after the outbreak of the Clone Wars, he believed that by disarming his people it would prevent Alderaan from being drawn into the Wars. [/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']Not only that but Wookie slaves as well. Does the actions of the prisoners condemn them to death? Does the fact that they are criminals condemn them as well? Some of the criminals in there, have probably done things that the Empire itself has done(murder, stealing...) but is the Empire seen as a criminal? If the fact that they are criminals gives them the right to destroy them, the Empire should destroy itself as well, seeing as how they do the things criminals do as well.[/quote] [SIZE=1]That would of course depend on the severity of their crimes wouldn't it, in America people face the Death Penalty for certain crimes, an act considered by many people to be barbaric. Siren has said that they were the dregs of the Galaxy and I believe him, as such their destruction is no real loss, they served their purpose in constructing the Death Star and once their use was depleted they were terminated. The Wookies were unfortunate and for their deaths I would consider it to be wrong. The Empire has committed crimes yes, but how often to governments face prosecutions for their actions ?[/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']No I mean the people who are caught up in the war whether they like it or not. Scenario: The Empire gets whiff so to speak of a Rebel base being on some planet. They capture a Rebel, and interrogate him, basically doing the same thing that happened to Leia. The Rebel denies any existence of a base on the planet, knowing full well he is telling the truth. What does the Empire do? Destroys the planet. Innocent lives like those. Yes it isn't meant to destroy lives, but come on. Something like that is used to destroy a planet. Really, think about it, how can you say there wouldn't be innocent lives amongst the so called Rebels being there, when they might not even be there?[/quote] [SIZE=1]Now you're taking things a little too far, I don't believe The Empire would waste resources destroying every planet where they heard there's a Rebel Base. Tarkin was quite sure there [b]was[/b] a Rebel base on Alderaan and destroyed the planet as both a message to the Rebellion and to the Galaxy in general. I doubt the Empire is in the habit of destroying planets just because some Rebel said so under interrogation, more than likely they'd check out the planet first and then use the Death Star.[/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']I honestly do not see problems with my spelling, unless I am completely blind. I see everything spelled correctly, maybe a few words that have different tenses or certain words to use i n situations, but other than that I don't see it.[/quote] [size=1]Look at the way you have "[I]in[/I]" spelled just before the word situations and you will have your proof. The reason you can't see it in my quotes is because I corrected the mistakes when I put them through Spell Check.[/size] [quote name='Zeta']The Republic tried to give equal opportunities to all. They allowed planets within their rule to be represented in the Senate. The Republic made an attempt to give equal rights to all. Rights which everyone wants. Rights which were denied under the rule of the Empire.[/quote] [SIZE=1]I would agree with your use of the words "[I]try[/I]" and "[I]an attempt[/I]" because realistically that's as about as far as they got. The Old Republic was so plagued by corruption that it took nothing short of a miracle for the Senate to do something good if it went against the interest of groups like the Trade Federation and the Commerce Guild. Yes The Empire denied most rights to non-humans unless they were exceptional in their class (Grand Admiral Thrawn for example), however they were at least capable of getting things done for the benefit of their people.[/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']Why did they engage on their own free will? You said it yourself, the Sith. Had the Jedi sat back and done nothing, as I seem to be getting from your post, the Republic would have lost much quicker than it had. The Jedi saw the problems that would come with a Sith victory, and for their own sake, as well as for others, they fought on the side of the Republic to the benefit of the greater good. I said the part with the Jedi on a hilltop as a perspective from a Republic soldier. What better way to boost morale if it is low than a Jedi standing there head held high and what not. It was more of a part I would like to see in Episode III if you don't want to take it into context here.[/quote] [SIZE=1]Fair enough, though the interesting part is the whole war for the Sith's influence even though the Jedi are unaware of it at that time. As for the point about the Jedi on the hilltop I had no idea what you were referring to but now that you've cleared it up I'd again point out that the Clones are bred to fear nothing, to take orders and die fighting if necessary.[/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']If there is little debate about using superweapons in war, why haven't we just nuked the mountains on the border of Afghanistan(sp) and Pakistan to just knock out bin Laden? The terrorists surely aren't losing this war, they are still around, plotting and waiting, so why not just nuke them? Right and wrong come into play here, morals come into play.[/quote] [SIZE=1]Because in the context of the point I made America would have to be under continual attack and loosing hundreds of thousands of people and facing a resounding defeat at the hands of Al-Qaeda. The point I made was that there is little time to debate the morals of a weapon if it is your only likely chance of not being annihilated by forces who see your demise as a divine task from their gods.[/SIZE] [quote name='Zeta']Who says that point is moot between a war with the Empire and Vong? Lets say the Empire did win the Civil War. They would have had no use to build another Death Star, so they have the one. The Vong, a race which has been around for far longer than the Empire, knows how to fight, and would find a weakness. Nom Anor himself said the war would be harder, but not impossible to beat. And that was only if it was at the height of its power, which it sure wouldn't be after a civil war that took time and resources. Had the Death Star not been destroyed early on in the Vong war then, the planets that the Vong had captured would be destroyed, and the Vong would destroy the Empire's planets for the same reasons. It would be a race to see who could destroy the others planets first, leaving nothing behind. Han also says in Destiny's Way that the Empire would build some gigantic superweapon which would only result in its destruction. The only reason the Empire would stand a chance would be the fact that they are basically the Vong, just as ruthless but with machines rather than living organisms.[/quote] [SIZE=1]I don't believe the Vong would have had a chance to do any serious damage against The Empire because their initial encounter would have been so swift and brutal on the side of the Empire I doubt many Vong forces would have had a chance to try and destroy the Death Star. I believe Han called the gigantic weapon "[I]The Nostril of Palpatine[/I]" and said that "[I]some hotshot Vong pilot[/I]" would blow it up, or something along those lines.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Siren has gone through most of what I wanted to say in his previous post but I shall address Zeta?s points where he quotes me.[/SIZE] [quote=Zeta]The Death Star was a military stronghold for the Empire, which had way more power than Alderaan, and was thus destroyed. If you say the destruction of Alderaan was just, then so was the Death Star. The Death Star was not made for a one-time use. Common sense needs to come into play once again. An Empire facing a force that is actually causing them trouble, spends quite a lot of time, and money to build a station that can destroy planets for a one time use? Please. We made the atomic bomb, something with extraordinary power to use in time of war. Did we use it once? No, we used it twice, just like the Death Star was used twice. The mere fact that someone can believe it was built for a one time use is beyond me, why waste all that money and supplies, when they can take their fleet of Star Destroyers and do the same thing and reduce the surface to rubble but leave the planet. No, the Death Star was made to destroy, no other reason, and would continue to be used for that purpose. Why else would they build a new one? Thousands of planets, billions of planet in the galaxy where their soldiers can leave, why a space station that is meant for killing?[/quote] [size=1]Yes the destruction of the Death Star could be justified as a destroyed enemy base, and I would agree with that. What I was saying was that we only see the most destructive side of the Death Star, we never see the families of soldiers or their children which makes it far easier to dismiss it as having nothing good about it. It is the polar opposite with Alderaan, all we see it this serene planet that seems to have nothing dubious about it in any way, and as such it?s destruction can be marked down as an act of genocide. Yes it was an act of genocide and as you seem to be very patriot Zeta I could easily compare it to the destruction of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by America, however we are not dealing with American acts of genocide in this thread. We know Leia lies about Alderaan, she claims she is a diplomat on a mission of Alderaan but she is lying, she is a traitor conspiring with her father and other high ranking Rebels to find a weakness in the Death Star so they can destroy it. When Imperial forces on her ship try to arrest her at the start of the film she kills them thus she is also a murderer, she is carrying classified information about the Death Star to go to Alderaan so it can be decoded and inspected for a weakness. I would put it to you Zeta that Leia so called ?facts? about Alderaan are not acceptable as facts as she, her father and the vast majority of the people of Alderaan supported the Rebellion. Alderaan?s destruction was a military action in a war against violent insurrectionists who threatened the security of The Empire, it was one of many symbols of the Rebellion which gave it strength. I disagree about the Death Star being created for more than one-time usage, the Death Star was created to wipe out planets with Rebel bases such as Alderaan and Yavin 4. It?s sheer destructive power was meant to be a warning for those other systems who would stand with The Rebels against the Empire, as Tarkin himself said ?Fear of will keep the local systems in line, fear of [b]this[/b] Battle Station?. His intent was to wipe out one Rebel stronghold as a clear message and then keep the Death Star as consequence who would turn traitor. Using a fleet of Star Destroyers would be in expensive and inefficient use of Imperial resources, as Han said it would take 1000 Star Destroyers to do the same job the Death Star was capable of doing in a single stroke. 1000 Star Destroyers would require millions of troops to be in the same area at any given time, it would also require huge amount of supplies and as such is not a viable use of resources. The Death Star cuts down on these requirement while still allowing the Imperial Navy to do it?s job patrolling the Empire and keeping it?s people safe from the likes of the Black Sun Crime Syndicate and The Hutts. Many people seem to think that the Imperial Navy does little beyond trying to defeat The Rebellion, it does have other tasks as the main military force protecting the Empire and it?s [b]loyal[/b] citizens.[/size] [quote name='Zeta'] Why did they do this you may ask? Well lets look at the facts. Alderaan may have been a Rebel stronghold as you and another have said. And you both claim that the people of Alderaan know about its ties with the Rebellion. If this were so, why are there no weapons on Alderaan? All their weapons are off in some spaceship from long ago, and they haven't made new ones. Wouldn't the people want to protect themselves if they knew they were in this situation? They destroyed it, because the Empire destroyed Alderaan. What other reason? A space station just destroyed an entire planet, for the sake of a few (when I say few I mean quite a bit, seeing as how this is an entire planet we are talking about). But still come on, the Rebellion destroyed those lives for the greater good. Had they not, more innocent lives would have been destroyed by the Empire and its Death Star.[/quote] [size=1]Where are you basing this information about Alderaan having no weapons, the Alderaan as described in the StarWars.com Database is one that is set in the Clone Wars. We have little information about Alderaan at the time of it?s destruction and as such we can only hypothesise about it with what information we do have available to us. As I have said before the [b]entire[/b] ruling family of Alderaan, the Organas were high ranking members of The Rebellion, as such it is likely there was a Rebel base on Alderaan because R2 was to go there to have the information about the Death Star extracted. We can also assume with near certainty that the Rebels would have been armed regardless of whether the vast population of Alderaan would have been. If Leia was so stringent about her father?s (Bail) act of banning weapons then why at the beginning of A New Hope is she and the Rebel forces on her ship armed. As for the reasons behind the destruction of Alderaan both Siren and I have given reasons why it was a threat though not a physical one in a direct sense. I also disagree with you use of the word a ?few? to describe the Rebel forces there in, we know that Alderaan sympathised with the Rebellion, we also know that their leader Bail Organa and their senator Leia were high ranking members of the Rebellion (As I said before Bail helped to found the Rebellion more than likely attempting to get back the power he had lost to Palpatine). Now with such proof and facts about Alderaan we can postulate that there were far more than a ?few? Rebels among Alderaan?s population. You say more ?innocent lives? would have been lost, who?s lives, Rebels ? We know that the Rebellion isn't innocent, it is made up of violent traitors and founded by power hungry senators. The Death Star as I have said was for use against Rebel strongholds, not innocent planets, it was made to be used to destroy planets that stood against the Empire as enemies. As such it cannot be said that the Death Star is meant to eradicate ?innocent lives? when it clearly isn?t.[/size] [quote name='Zeta']How many planets were destroyed by the Old Republic? How many species were denied positions in the Senate? How are his actions NOT evil, I again ask. He destroys planets with space stations, he bombards planets from orbit, he kills countless innocent lives, none of which the Rebellion does WILLINGLY. The Old Republic may be corrupt, but how are they to know that their new government will be corrupt? All they know is that the Empire is not the way a galaxy is supposed to be run, but a new type should come and give equal opportunities to ALL. Not only humans as was with the Empire.[/quote] [size=1]Zeta will you please use a Spell Check or something because you spelling is at times less than readable, anyway on to your point. We know that the Old Republic was engaged in the Hyper Space War at one stage, this like any war resulting in the destruction of enemy lives, the Old Republic being involved in this war more than likely took it?s far share of lives. The Clone War was sanctioned by the Senate by giving Chancellor Palpatine emergency powers, this war raged across the galaxy with the Jedi being involved in front-line fighting, people on both sides were killed in the fighting, planets may have been made uninhabitable. The Old Republic was involved in the Sith Wars millennia ago which saw the destruction of many planets and the deaths of millions. As we can see the Old Republic was quite capable of such acts without Palpatine and before he created The Empire. How do you know that The Old Republic is the way the Galaxy is meant to be ? Are you omnipotent ? Are you licensed by LucasArts to write the future of Star Wars as a series ? No... thought as much. You say that the Old Republic gave equal opportunities to all, do you ? I would dispute that by saying that the corruption and back-handed nature of The Old Republic made it quite difficult for anyway one get equal opportunities unless it was in the interest if those with power. The Empire discriminates in favour of human yes, but at least it does so without corruption as plagued it?s predecessor.[/size] [quote name='Zeta']They are designated the office class, because the Republic was not ready for a war. They needed people to lead, and the Jedi were their best bet. A highly disciplined group of men and women who could raise moral, fight alongside the men dying. Who doesn't want to see a lone figure stand atop a hill and ignite a lightsaber and wait for the ensuing battle alongside his men? Obi-wan said they are not a "police force" or something to that effect in Episode II. It is only in certain conditions when things like that are done.[/quote] [size=1]I?m not sure what point you?re trying to make there. Actually I believe it was Mace Windu who said there were ?keepers of the peace, not soldiers?. If memory serves it even went against the beliefs of the Jedi to engage in a war on the behalf of The Old Republic, it is only because of the Sith influence of that war that made the Jedi join the fray. The fact that there were made the Officer Class of the Republic?s Army shows that the Jedi willingly engaged the war with Clone Troopers, these were not young men who?d grown up in the splendour and wondrous opportunities of the Old Republic. They were grown in a tube and programmed to follow orders, much like their enemies the Droid Armies of the Separatists. Your point about the Jedi on the hilltop has no relevance so I?ll ignore it.[/size] [quote name='Zeta']And again, how does that justify their actions? Yes the Vong are just as bad as the Empire, but look at the end of the NJO. Ultimately the good of the Republic, or whatever its new name is now, I just cant remember it, allowed them to live peacefully together. After the initial contact, the Empire would have just completely destroyed the Vong fleet at the Outer Rim. How would this send good messages across the galaxy. After a Rebellion that finished not too long ago, a new race appears and is utterly destroyed? Lets take into consideration that we do not know what the Vong are like at the time, pretend the NJO never happened the way it did. How would the people of the galaxy know they were bad guys? For all they know they could have been a race seeking refuge, and were utterly destroyed. The people would know that the Empire would do this, what with the destruction of Alderaan already in history.[/quote] [size=1]It doesn?t justify their actions, however the Republic?s shirking attitude towards it?s conflict with the Yuuzhan Vong proved that it was incapable of fighting such an enemy. The moral dilemmas of the Republic are wonderful to debate while you being annihilated by an enemy bent on wiping out you and your people as a sacrifice to their gods. I think you?re being a little naive here about war, in war there is little time for debating to morality of using super-weapons to defeat you enemies (a lá Hiroshima and Nagasaki) if they are continually beating the stuffing out of your forces in every encounter. If memory serves the final book of the New Jedi Order has yet to be printed so I find it interesting that you seem to know it?s outcome already, though I suspect it will end in someway similar to the Vong leaving New Republic space and just going away. Now had the Empire ?completely destroyed? the Vong fleet it would have saved millions of people in the Empire from being killed by Yuuzhan Vong forces. Hmm yes I see your point it is far better to hold up your morals high and feel good while millions of your people are being killed by an invading xenocidal enemy. The Vong engaged in warfare in their very first encounter with the Republic, what I meant was that if the Empire had fought the war with the Vong it would have been over very quickly with only Vong causalities.[/size] [quote name='Zeta'] EXACTLY! Just as Boba (my good ole' pal Boba ) said, the Republic has a sense of right and wrong. Under no reason should something be used that can destroy and entire race. It is just plain wrong. Nevermind if the Empire would do that or not, after reading something like that, would you want to think of them as a good guy? Geeze, c'mon get real. Rather fight fairly against and enemy that doesn't and win, and show who is actually the ones in the right.[/quote] [size=1]Yes and when there?s nothing left of the New Republic and it?s people then nobody will know about their morals because only the Vong are left and they believed they were in the right as the implement of their gods. Your above statement is complete nonsense, in a war there is not Good Guys and Bad Guys there are just soldiers and casualties, morality doesn?t enter the equation when you?re fighting for your very existence. I?d like you to consider a phrase Zeta ?Winners write the history?, and it?s impact on modern history.[/size] [quote name='Zeta']It guards itself by means than any free-thinking man/woman realize is atrocious and therefor gives the Rebellion all new meaning.[/quote] [size=1]Sorry can you actually explain that vague sentiment, the morals of a people cannot defend them, it?s military [b]can[/b], their weapons [b]can[/b], their morals [b]cannot[/b]. The Jedi guard the New Republic as they always have.[/size] [quote name='Zeta']Well that is a good thing to know, I agree with Boba. With a war between the two of them, there would be nothing left in the galaxy anyways, so it wouldn't matter.[/quote] [size=1]Says who ? The war would have more than likely ended before it started thanks to the Death Star as well as the formidable Imperial Navy. So realistically that point is moot.[/size]

[quote name='Zeta]The Rebellion and Empire are truley [i]what[/i] though? You have failed to explain what they really are without any way of showing us how. You have said things about the Rebellion being bad. How? You have said that the Empire isn't bad. Again how? Even when you look at it in its entirety, you see that the Empire is indeed bad, and the Rebellion is fighting the [i]good[/i'] cause. I am still very curious as to how the Empire can be good and the Rebellion is bad. Please enlighten us on these views of yours. If you want us to possibly see it your way in the slightest, you have to work with us and say why you feel this way. So far you haven't, and the things you have said are way out there, borderline of insane. You have to look at the things you said with common sense and realize that what you said does not help you views in any way whatsoever. It just aims to confuse those who do not have a grasp of what and how far Star Wars is.[/quote] [size=1]It's late and I've got to head off after I finish this post so I'll answer your question as simply and quickly as I can Zeta. Go back one page to page 89 and read the discussion in full between myself, Boba Fett, James and Siren that should answer your questions about my opinions on The Rebels and The Empire. In saying that I never said the Rebellion was evil nor did I say The Empire was good, I merely said that they are shown in either their best or worst lights.[/size]

[SIZE=1][b]Edit[/b] After posting the tech-specs of the Advanced Weapons Pod I came back here and altered my post to get rid of the old specs I'd written. [CENTER]-------------------[/CENTER] [I]The Commander had been in the Turbo-Lift heading for his quarters when the Captain has ordered all the Senior Staff to report in, he wondered whether he should use his comm. badge or his Betazoid telepathy in order to contact him. In the end his chose the former and tapped his own comm. Badge lightly[/I] =/\= [B]Ventarris:[/B] Captain do you want me to report in or shall I continue to my quarters ? =/\= [b]Andrus:[/b] Continue to your quarters Commander it'll be a while before your needed so take this time to get settle in. =/\= [b]Ventarris:[/b] Understood Aside out. [I]Ventarris continue down to corridor to his quarters on Deck 2, he was tired from supervising to integration of the Advanced Weapons Pod and the new Phasers, but for their mission it was definitely worth it. He found himself going over the new armaments of the in his head, the math was nothing compared to the piece of mind he felt about going into this mission with a ship that now stood on par with the firepower of the [B]Enterprise - E[/B]. He pushed those thoughts out of his head as the hum of the transporter sounded in the room, Ventarris walked over to examine what had been beamed up from the Station. He smiled going through all his personal objects, he'd had most of this stuff a long time and it brought back both good and bad memories. He began sorting and unpacking most of his different possessions, pictures, books, pieces of art and most importantly his saxophone. Ventarris laughed softly as he rubbed one hand down along the side of the instrument, his father had bought him just before his first year of Starfleet Academy. He placed it delicately on it's stand on one corner of his room before moving on to unpack the rest of his mess. 30 minutes and a tiring affair later he sat on his bed admiring his work. He lay back staring up at his ceiling, there were still some work going on in the different section to get everything ready but the Captain had given them plenty of time so he wasn?t worried. He decided the best course of action was a Sonic Shower and then maybe a quick bite to eat from the replicator before taking a trip to one of the Holodecks. Sighing he got off the bed and headed towards the shower, it was a comfortable way to clean himself and one of the few things that relaxed him. He walked out with nothing more than a towel to find Lieutenant Watterson peering in his door with a look of shock on her face...[/I][/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Hmm well it's been a while since I posted here so I might as well give it another go, recently I played and complete [b]Prince of Persia: The Sand of Time[/b] for the Gamecube a few weeks ago. I have to say that it has one of the best sound tracks on any game I've played, the music for puzzles is moody and instrumental in parts giving you a sense of foreboding as you make your way through the dead palace. When the combat comes along the music kicks up into something special, along with some great instrumental music there's brilliant Soprano vocalism that helps you to real feel as you're fighting the hoards of undead Sand-Creatures. I can't really give a great description of the overall music though I would advise anyone who has the opportunity to rent or buy this game to do so just to listen to the music to it.[/SIZE]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade]I'm going to step in here, just because what is said above has just about ZERO logic to it. "Star Wars how George Lucas portrays it," no matter what you may or may not think, [i]IS[/i'] Star Wars, period. His portrayal is all there is to it. There is no alternative "both sides as they truly are." What the heck is that?? Both sides as they truly are, lol. Star Wars isn't real. It's a story of good vs. evil made up and told by George Lucas. If you want to say that he was "hiding the truth" from you, then you're gonna need to have your head examined.[/quote] [SIZE=1]I don't believe that I have said anywhere in any post I have made in the Star Wars 411 thread that Star Wars was anything more than fiction or that George Lucas was "hiding the truth". What I have said it that there is more than one "point of view" on the way events are presented, other than the way George Lucas has shown it to us. Star Wars has grown as a story to the extent where we can see and read about the different events, groups and people who make up the story in greater detail than is available to us looking at the movies alone. If you want to believe it's just a simple tale of Good versus Evil then that's your prerogative and that's fine. However many of the people here look at the story in all the detail there is available to see both groups of The Empire and The Rebellions as they really are. I am not saying that Star Wars is anything more than fiction, what I am saying is that you must look at it in it's entirety and make your judgements. As with any story the heroes are portrayed in the best possible light, the villains in the worst so as to make it easy to [B]prefer[/B] one side more easily.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Solo Tremaine][color=#503f86']Kane is (rather nicely, heh) a cousin. Although for me to be an actual cousin, the assumption would have to be that I had OB 'parents' that were related to his OB 'parents', unless I was created in a lab or something.[/color][/quote] [size=1]Oh **** he'd found out, quick hit him with the tranquilliser before he escapes. Heh just kidding Hugo, although I too lack parents on OB which means I too could have been created in a l... [[I]Is hit by tranquilliser dart[/I]].[/size] [QUOTE=Drix D'Zanth]I consider Boba Fett, maybe Deathbug, and a few others "cousins". Mitch, Lynx, Baron Samedi, Chaos, and Tony (semjaza) would most definitely be brothers... even in a metaphorical sense.[/QUOTE] [SIZE=1][[I]Is touched[/I]] Thanks Drix that means a lot to me (even if I'm Kane now), and we are actual brothers because Annie is also my sister which means that I'm also related to Mitch, Baron Samedi, Chaos and Semjaza too [[I]Too much information[/I]] OK head hurts now...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Well I've heard and said my fair share of things but there is one that really stands out from the crowd. I was dating this girl from my class a few years ago, she was a nice girl and for our third date I invited her out to the steak house in town which had only opened a few weeks before hand. Now I had told her about a week in advance that we were going to a Amigo's (the steak-house) and that if she wanted to go somewhere else it was OK. So anyway Saturday roles on and I'm to meet her in town and bring her to Amigo's for dinner. Anyway we get inside and it was absolutely pack in there, I was lucky that a cousin of mine was the assistant manager in there so he was able to get me a reservation. So anyway we get and it's all looking great, she looks beautiful and I ask for the menus so that we can order some food. She takes one look at the menu and says one of the most stupid things I've ever heard in my life. "[I]So where's the vegetarian section ?[/I]" I just put my head in my hands and sighed to myself, I mean I had told her that it was a steak house and then she decides to tell me she doesn't eat meat. In the end she ended up having soup or something while I ordered steak, and then she said to me just as I was about to eat my steak. "[i]I can't believe you'd eat that poor cow[/i]" It took one date and that was the end of it, I've got nothing against vegetarians or vegans but that took it just a little too far for my tastes.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=Boba Fett][COLOR=green]There?s a reason they look different. Lucas is presenting a Zoroastrian vision of the future contained within the boundaries of a classic Greek myth. In this setting, good and evil are clearly defined. Good is light in color, usually white. Evil is its polar opposite, black. Hence Leia?s white dress and Vader?s black armor. Imperial stormtroopers are dressed in white blast armor, symbolizing their [I]attempt[/I] at legitimacy. However, we see their leaders dressed in black. This contrast shows us the difference between the Empire?s outward appearance and it?s true dark heart. The officers of the Empire, in between these points, are appropriately dressed in gray. So when we see the Death Star as a gray ball, attacking an earth-esque planet colored with white, blues and greens, it?s obvious who holds the moral high ground.[/color][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]An interesting point, yes from the point of view Lucas writes the film we are supposed to see The Rebellion being good and The Empire being bad and as such their clothing would reflect that point. To be honest I actually hadn't spotted the link between Leia's white dress and Vader's black armor though I could go back to my previous point that Leia is less-than-pious in her actions. The Officer class in an interesting point too, and yes I'd agree that they bring a level of respectability to the Empire. I disagree with your point though about Alderaan holding the moral high ground against the Death Star, it's because we see so little of Alderaan before it's destruction that we judge it to be good and just. And in that same effect we only see the evil capacities of the Death Star which makes it to look more evil than it really is. This arguement will basically boil down to those who want to look at Star Wars how George Lucas portrays it, and those who want to look at it under a light in which we see both sides as they truly are. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]This has been one or the most depressing summers I've had. I?ll start off with my near fatal trip to Turkey in early June, the first week saw my father, my brother [B]and[/B] my sister getting doses of food poisoning from the Hotel we were staying in. I was lucky in the fact that there were meant to be six of us going on that trip (My mother and grandmother stayed in Ireland because of my granduncle getting sick the night we were to go on holiday) so we had two rooms booked for two weeks. This left me having to spend most of the first week on my own while the others lay in bed sick, it gets better though. While on a trip to a water park towards the end of the first week I somehow managed to come off a water slide and skim, yeah [B]skim[/B], along the water resulting in me going face first into the tiled side of the pool at high speed. I was lucky that I hit my cheek as at that speed I could have easily broken my jaw had I hit it. So for the first week we were a walking medical nightmare, however things in the second week picked up as my family cleared up from their food poisoning and my cheek had returned to normal. We then went on a truly excellent historical trip to the ancient amphi-theatre of Aspendos and the ancient Greek (in Turkey) city of Siad, I'm a massive history nerd so it was a great trip for me. Plus the Euro 2004 was great, I loved watching England getting knocked out by Portugal and seeing everyone laugh at Golden-Ball screw up. However once we got back from Turkey I learned that my granduncle had cancer of the lungs and brain, meaning he only had a few weeks to live. I felt really guilty about going on holiday while he was dying but he told me that as long as I had a good time and was able to increase my knowledge then it was worth the trip. I must have spent the next two weeks going up and down from Tipperary to Limerick constantly to see him. It was really difficult to watch him suffer because I'd always seen him as such a strong man, then on July 2nd I heard he'd died and that really ruined what little of my summer I thought I'd be able to salvage. The funeral drew hundreds, he was a very loved and respected man and his funeral was a real tribute to him, but it was still very hard to say goodbye to him. It's been a funny old summer to be sure.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]If Siren goes much further I may be replaced as the chief Imperial spin-doctor.[/SIZE] [QUOTE=James][color=#707875]I think you could argue that the two are opposites in one sense; Alderaan is pure, filled with lush forests and a peaceful civilization. It is the opposite to the Death Star in that it poses no threat to anyone; it's a completely peaceful entity. But the Death Star is black, cold, harsh and entirely synthetic. Unlike Alderaan, which just sits there doing no harm, the Death Star actively goes after other planets. It's the hunter, Alderaan is the hunted.[/color][/quote] [SIZE=1]James I think that point is completely flawed, yes Alderaan and the Death Star are different in terms of appearance and construction but there is no way you can base an argument on the aesthetic appearance of each side. It is the way in which Lucas presents them by which our opinions of them in formed, when we first see Alderaan it is presented to us in such as way that it masks the negative about it. Yes it is a beautiful celestial body, but it is not home to a peaceful civilisation as we are lead to believe. I disagree with you James when you say that Alderaan just "sat there and did no harm", it was home to Rebel forces intent on resurrecting the Old Republic using violent means. It has been proven that it was more than likely a Rebel base of operations, a planet where the Rebellion had ample ability to spread it's propaganda and as such was as dangerous to the Empire as the Death Star was in it's own right. As Siren has pointed out, what we are dealing with here is symbolism, the symbol of the Rebellion being the heartless destruction of the "peaceful" Alderaan by the Empire. It is in this same presentation that we form our opinion of the Death Star a giant ominous looking battle station capable of destroying entire planets in it's awesome display of firepower. Yes it was cold and artificial, harsh and foreboding, however this was it's appearance as Lucas saw fit to show, had we seen the parks, the shops, the families of those Imperials serving aboard the Death Star I think we would have formed rather different opinion on it. We see the Death Star as an implement of galactic tyranny, a weapon capable of obliterating entire planets at the Empire's whim. Now when we see Alderaan for the first time it looks a peaceful looking body, an Earth-like haven home to the beautiful Princess Leia who fights against the autocracy of the Empire. However Leia is really a violent insurrectionist, a member of a Rebellion intent on restoring its leaders to their previous positions of elevated power. Alderaan is not really peaceful, it's ruling family engage in acts of treason while it's people are Rebel sympathisers. It's destruction is marked as an act of genocide in order to kill a "few dissidents" by other Rebel sympathisers, where as in truth it's destruction was the eradication of a Rebel stronghold. It is in the way that we are shown The Empire and the Rebellion that forms our initial opinions on them.[/SIZE] [quote name='James][color=#707875']That's my opinion, anyway. Again, I don't think that any analysis could suggest that the Empire is "good" or benevolent, at least in the context of the film (and that is, afterall, the topic of discussion). The Alderaan/Death Star comparison only serves to increase the impact of that point.[/color][/quote] [SIZE=1]But what you must remember James is that we are not trying to prove the Empire is good and benevolent because they simply aren't either or the two. What we are trying to do is at least show both the Empire and the Rebellion in the same light because the one in which it is shown is far from accurate. Both groups commit acts of genocide, The Empire destroyed Alderaan killing millions of Rebel operatives and sympathisers, The Rebels destroyed [b]two[/b] Death Stars killing possibly millions of Imperial troops and their families. The Empire is autocratic and callous, the Republic is corrupt and decadent.[/SIZE] [quote name='James][color=#707875']I just wanted to point out that of course there is no justification for the Empire's acts of genocide. That's the whole point. That's why they're evil. lol[/color][/quote] [SIZE=1]It would seem my opinions have shifted somewhat in the last few weeks. And by that same sentiment we could say there is no justification for the destruction of the Death Star(s) because they were not dangerous unless you were a traitor to the Empire.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Misenki']Hey, you didn't put in my RPGs. Mine are probaley the worst ones on this site. Those thing are horrible and no one has commented on my other RPG idea here in the Underground, so that means it suck like everything else I wright. You should have put one of my RPGs in this thread. It let me see what everyone thinks of it.[/quote] [SIZE=1]Don't say that about yourself Misenki, if you think your RPGs are horrible then you should go out and try to get better, but never put yourself down and call yourself crap. When I first started off here I thought my quality was so bad I'd never be able to role-play with the great on OB, but after looking at other people's RPG, just reading them I came up with my own ideas and improved, it just takes a little time and effort and you'll see that you're not nearly as bad as you think.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]I assume that this is just a thread where we can discuss generally strange but true stories. I have one myself although it's exact details escape me because it's been years since I read the article about the event, however adieu aside here's how it went: A fellow had been going out with a girl for several months, however after those several months he decided that the girl was not the one he wanted to spent the rest of his life with and broke up with her. The girl was devastated and tragically committed suicide shortly afterwards, her brother consumed by thought of revenge against the man who he blamed for his sister's death goes off to kill him. The man was outside his house tending to a large tree in garden when his ex-girlfriend's brother arrives with a gun and threatens to kill him. The brother has a handgun with him and shoots the man with the intent to kill him, the man who'd had his back to the tree felt the bullet from the gun graze the side of his head and imbedded itself in the tree. Using this premise as well as the blood from the graze the man fell to the ground pretending to be dead, the brother with his task complete turned the gun on himself and he too committed suicide. Fifteen to twenty years later the man was out in his garden once again, the same garden where the incident had happened. He wished to cut down the large tree which had saved his life but was unable to cut it down, in the end he decided to use an explosive to do the job instead, why I don't know. When the man exploded the explosive the bullet which was still imbedded in the tree was dislodged from the tree at great speed and struck the main square in the head killing him. The bullet had done it's job even if it took twenty years... To my knowledge that was a true event.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Wingnut Ninja']I think my main issue with it is that it just gets too boring at times, namely any scene that involves Dr. Melfi, but otherwise, I do find it funny in certain areas. Even still, characters like Paulie and ***** have got pretty humorous attitudes, and they resemble that of the typical mafia thugs you'd see in other films, so good job there.[/quote] [SIZE=1]That was one of my main quibbles with the show in general, yes it is good and funny in parts but whenever I caught an episode it just seemed to be all [B]pointless[/B] dialogue. I mean there's only so much bull-**** arguing I can watch between Tony and his wife, if I wanted to see that I'd watch some dodgy soap-opera. There are indeed times when the show in nothing short of brilliant and yes some of the time it is interesting to see it from the perspective of Tony's family life but there are times when it becomes a little to boring, I wouldn't mind cliché but boring is unacceptable.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Desbreko][color=#4B0082']Eh, I don't know about that. The Padded Room Party was pretty dang fun. Sure, it was 2,000+ posts of pure spam, but it was hilarious to participate in. Being an oldie is fun, but it's a different kind of fun than that "innocent newbie spamming" fun. :whoops:[/color][/quote] [SIZE=1]I must admit I don't remember that but it does sound rather amusing in it's antics and if the great Desbreko thought it was fun then more than likely it was. What I meant was that as an Oldie you've got the ability to look back over all you've accomplished while you've been on OB and chat with friends who you shared those accomplishments with. Though in saying that "innocent newbie spamming" fun was pretty good when we were first here ;).[/SIZE] [QUOTE=Desbreko][color=#4B0082]Ah, the grand feat of proofreading. This is something I've always highly recommended, and is exactly what I did for a long, long time (and still often do) when trying to improve the quality of my writing. I would read back through each and every post I wrote to check for errors before posting them, and over time, I would find fewer and fewer errors as I got better. Also, what I do for spellchecking whenever I'm not sure about how to spell a word is to type it into [url=http://www.dictionary.com/][u]Dictionary.com[/u][/url]. If it's wrong, it will bring up a list of suggestions which almost always has the correct spelling in the list as long as you're somewhat close, and then you can check the word's definition to make sure it's actually the word you're looking for. That, along with the thesaurus function, has helped me expand my vocabulary a substantial amount.[/color][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]Sounds like another solid solution to writing problems from Desbreko, though I must admit I find it as easy to just use Spell Check myself but to each his own.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]And yet I'm Irish and I've never even heard of this band to the best of my knowledge. Are they actually from Ireland or are they Americans with Irish ancestors because I've honestly never heard of them ? Though in saying that I find music like that insulting as an Irish person and people who write such music as being jackasses propogating the stupid stereotype of the "[I]Drunken Irish[/I]".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]It would seem I am not alone in my beliefs that the Empire is not as evil as it's made out to be.[/SIZE] [QUOTE=Siren]Tarkin does not arbitrarily destroy Alderaan, for a variety of reasons, one of them being the obvious fact that Leia is lying about Alderaan's population. As Kane has pointed out, it would be incredibly naive to think that only a small percentage of Alderaan's population was armed, given that Leia and her surrogate father, Bail, were prominent supporters of the Rebellion. Darth Vader knows they are sympathetic. Tarkin knows. It could be said that the entire Empire knows. So, for the viewer to think that the population of Alderaan either doesn't know, doesn't care, or generally, isn't involved in some way or another with the Rebellion, is foolhardy, because it's made very clear just how outspoken Leia is about the Rebellion and how clear her affiliation is with it.[/quote] [SIZE=1]Exactly, we later learn that Bail Organa was actually one of the [b]Founders[/b] of the Rebellion along with fellow Senators Garm Bel-Iblis and Mon Mothma, the man was not just a member of the Rebellion, he helped to found it. Not only does this tell us that Alderaan was would be likely a Rebel base but Organa also has his adopted daughter running around using her Diplomatic credentials to transport information to the Rebels. We also know beyond contestation that R2-D2 was to be delivered to Alderaan in order to have the information on his hard drive received for use by Rebel forces, this is a clear indication that Alderaan was a Rebel base of operations. I find it amusing that people think the destruction of Alderaan was unjust, it [b]was[/b] more than likely a Rebel stronghold, we can see that from the above information and so justly was a target for destruction. I find it a little more than interesting that three of the Senates most ambitious Senators would "nobly" create a Rebellion for the purpose of freeing the Galaxy from the Empire's tyranny and restoring a form of government in which they had substantial power. Tarkin said the use of the Death Star on Alderaan was to be "a demonstration? for those who would support the Empire, it was meant to be used once and then kept as a consequence to those who would support the Rebellion.[/SIZE] [QUOTE=Siren]It seems more and more that The Empire's actions are justifiable, in that they are commonplace in times of war. Granted, there surely were innocent civilians on Alderaan, but who is to say that there weren't innocent civilians aboard the [url="http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/deathstar/?id=eu"][u]Death Star[/u][/url]? There is mention of shops, parks, etc aboard the Death Star, to make the soldiers more comfortable: [quote]Since service on the Death Star was a long-term affair, the station maintained a number of civilian amenities to make the time aboard a deep space station more comfortable. Parks, shopping centers and recreation areas could be found in the general sectors of the station[/quote] It appears that there were civilians somewhere aboard the Death Star. Interesting.[/quote] [SIZE=1]The plot thickens, we now see that the Death Star, the implement of the Imperial "genocide" was to be a long term home for it's soldiers and more than likely their families. We can now see with distinction that the Rebellion is as guilty of murdering countless innocent civilians as the Empire, I would ask anyone here to dispute me when I say that the destruction of the Death Star by the Rebels is comparable to that of Alderaan as an act of Mass-Murder. The fact is that the people we are presented with on both sides make the difference, the young, brave and noble members of the Rebellion fighting the old, militaristic and evil leaders of the Empire. A cunning move by Lucas but it doesn't hold up under severe scrutiny.[/SIZE] [quote name='Siren']You know, as I think about it more and more, and look deeper into the story, what seemed like a clear line between good and evil is becoming as murky as the swamps of Dagobah. :)[/quote] [SIZE=1]I couldn't agree more but at least we get to see both sides in a more truthful light.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=Siren]I think this is also an important point to consider. If the Old Republic was indeed as feeble and ineffective as we are led to believe by the Prequels and OT, then Palpatine's approach to reconstruction, while certainly vicious (but that's not to say the Old Republic was all that clean, either), he certainly had the right idea. I don't think he should be entirely villified because the Old Republic definitely needed a restructuring. Nothing was getting done from what we've seen, apart from appointing a total incompetent into a position of power. Really, when I think about it, Amidala had no power at all. She was just a cutesy figurehead, but yet she acted like she had power. The public doesn't need a government that can act; the public needs a government that can [i]do[/i].[/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]Exactly, PT has summed up exactly what I've been saying. Yes Palpatine would eventually go on to create an Empire under his iron-fisted rule but the only reason that Empire came about was because of the underhanded nature that had crippled the Old Republic. As PT said all Palpatine did was restructure the Old Republic from a body, who supposedly had admirable beliefs but was plagued by corruption which led to it's inability to act without a reason to line the pockets of certain individuals. From that it was converted into a body ruled by Palpatine under which there was no corruption, where action was taken at Palpatine's whim, and who's ideals are condemned as being "evil" by a group of insurrectionist bent on bringing back the antiquated and corrupt Old Republic. The Empire did commit acts of evil but at least it's acts were to be seem openly instead of shadowy and backhanded as was common in the Old Republic. As for Senator Amidala she was little more than another tool at Palpatine's disposal, much like many other individuals ranging from Nute Gunray to Bail Organa who aided him in his ascent to Emperor. I recently read [b]Cloak of Deception[/b] a prequel novel to Episode One written by George Lucas and I have to say that it casts many characters in a much different light, including the "noble" Bail Organa and the "indecisive" Finius Valorum.[/SIZE]