Charles

[QUOTE=James][font=arial]As I said earlier, I have not read all the posts in this thread - I'm coming into the discussion somewhat late. But my previous point still stands; a lot of suggestions are made and they are often made without much thought as to how difficult they could be to implement. Let's not forget that some things would have to be included retroactively - we'd have to go back and make edits to previous threads (perhaps those threads that are up to three or four months old, rather than [i]all[/i] of them). So we have to be careful about that.[/font][/quote] Not exactly. What we're proposing is that the current forum is archived and we start fresh. People can make specific requests to have current RPGs moved over, which would take some work but I don't think it would be too overwhelming. Check out post #8 (although I think even that interface can be modified so that sign-ups and Underground discussion go hand-in-hand better instead of padding everything out).

Now, I like this OtakuBoards Records idea. I think that could be really neat and it demonstrates the kind of thinking I'm talking about. Also, if you want to stick by your guns with this Survivor event, then that's cool. At least there's a clearer justification behind it now, which could end up helping in the long-run. I was never concerned that it wouldn't necessarily make a good event down the line (because we did have Big Brother). I was just concerned that it wasn't a good time or place to use it. Howevever, as I said, now that you've plead your case it could help your cause.

Are you ****ing kidding me? *breaks things*

This thread turned into crap quickly last time. We don't need it again.

It's not just you. Sandy, we've recently made amends and I want you to know that I am not being malicious here; I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. Lately you've been more pleasant and it's gone a long way into helping you get back into this competition. Even your latest reply was good--until the event pitch. This is just the reality of things: if you do not edit your post with a different event pitch, you're essentially handing the competition over to White on a silver platter. Shy gave you a very open-ended question, he gave you the opportunity to leave your comfort zone and be truly ambitious. Although I'm sure that Survivor would be an ejoyable game, it's something you've done several times. You can choose to take this advice or not, but I suggest editing your post with a new event if you're serious at all about this contest. Again, I don't mean to sound harsh, but "safe" isn't going to cut it anymore.

[quote name='vegeta rocker']I think that is a great idea, but i guess it would sap a lot of Mods with busy work. Getting messages all the time asking if they could create an M rated rpg would take forever.[/quote] It wouldn't take a long time. It seems like many moderators just copy and paste their spiel's anyway.

[quote name='Sandy']I have actually grown quite fond of the Underground ever since it was established. Before it the out-of-character discussion took place within the RPG threads or in some cases in the recruitment threads, but the Underground threads have pretty much "cleaned" it away from the RPGs. I know it's not very active, but it's not dead either. The Underground really serves the needs of us roleplayers.[/quote] Oh okay. That's cool. If it's actually serving a valuable purpose for you guys then I recant that part of my argument. It would be cool though, if it was just another sub-forum in the actual Adventure Square, alongside the Recruitment area., like Lady A said. [QUOTE=BKstyles][font=tahoma]A - Cartoonish Violence (Bops on the head, harmless smacks, throwing giant turnips at people, anything that doesn't draw blood or requiring a visit to a hospital, etc) B - Graphic Violence (Guns, swords, blood, torture, etc) C - Stong Sexual Themes (Sex scenes allowed, sexual harrasment, etc) D - Hints of Sexual Tensions (flirting, kissing, the furthest being maybe touching depending on where it is on the body, etc) E - Mild Language (Profanity used by the standard of around 1-2 times in a post with the exclusion of the F word, racial and sexual slurs, etc) F - Harsh Language (Profanity used at the participant's discretion, etc) [/font][/QUOTE] lol

[quote name='BKstyles][FONT=Tahoma']Also, I agree with Sara's idea for a revamping of the ratings system itself. They could be made clearer in terms of what the RP will definitly entail, rather then what it could possibly entail. A big thing about the ratings that may even describe it's respective thread well is that I've seen plenty of them not even make use of the possibilities granted with the rating. So it's important to let people know what they will be including in their posts that pertains to the atmosphere of the story, if a particular one is in mind upon creation. As it pertains to the Anthology, it's already been said that the rating will be undisputed since the progress and content of story/poem etc will be completely in the hands of the writer. [/FONT][/quote] I just don't get why it needs to be "revamped." It's like taking the same problem and dressing it up differently. I don't even know that a backroom needs to be used. I think my whole argument here (and if someone can prove me wrong, then go ahead) is that the vast majority of RPs don't need an "M" rating. The number of RPGs that genuinely require a true "M" rating are extremely rare. The number of RPGs that use the "M" rating to its fullest, are few as well. People do their best to complicate things here when it isn't really necessary by tagging a ratings system onto threads. The forum should be set up so that damn near every thread is in accordance to the site's standards. Words like "hell, damn, etc" wouldn't even be an issue. But, if someone wants [i]graphic[/i] sex in their RPG or vividly-described, gruesome death-scenes, or really strong language, then they should have to apply for special permission from the staff; they should have to make a pitch and the staff should decide whether or not to allow the RPG. If the RPG is allowed, it should be flagged. So, the more I think about it, the more I feel a "backroom" is unnecessary. I think the existence of such a forum will dilute the simple interface Shy and I talked about. I also think that the Underground is pretty useless and that these RPGs could easily be discussed in the recruitment threads. That forum really seems like just more of the padding OtakuBoards has that it doesn't really need at this point. If a Backroom is instituted, I hope that barely any threads are allowed into there, otherwise it's going to get ridiculous again.

I like your take on the idea Desbreko, but if we're kind of revamping everything, do you think it would be possible to have people responsible for providing ratings or allowing rated M RPs into the "mature" board? Even when it comes to film ratings, there's an official, objective board of people who decide what rating a film deserves. It's the same with video games and music. I think it helps when someone seperate from the project looks at it and decides what rating it should have. I also think this would stop people from putting 90-99 percent of all RPs in the mature board. Otherwise, I like where this is all going.

[QUOTE=Lady Asphyxia][size=1][color=DarkGreen] [/color][/size][size=1][color=DarkGreen]And Charles, I'm a little confused about what you meant by 'eyesore'. Did you mean the physical construction of the forums, or the posts, or...? If you could clarify, perhaps we could find a solution to your aesthetic displeasures. :p [/color][/size][/QUOTE] Well, Lady A, a picture is worth a thousand words. If you look at the image I posted and the front page, even as it stands today, nearly every thread has an "M" rating. Even if these threads aren't necessarily graphic stories, that [i]appearance[/i] is really disjarring when compared to the theme of the rest of the site. Even if you remove the moral aspect, as I've stated previously, the ratings system even [i]looks[/i] cumbersome and intimidating. The numbers you provided only further the argument that it's not a problem to just go ahead and remove profanity though. Putting creative writing in the Games & Stories area isn't an idea we had because of thread rating problems there--it's simply because that area is pretty dead and has been for a while. It could use the spark of change. [quote name='Raiyuu][FONT=Trebuchet MS']Having written all that, I suppose that entire problem is symptomatic of the general brokenness of the Thread Ratings. I don't know if a complete restructuring of the forum is necessary just to reduce needless profanity or overzealous ratings, though.[/FONT][/quote] The restructuring idea isn't meant to reduce profanity; it's just a structural improvement that recognizes the change of tastes. The popularity of games has proven itself to be more than a fad, while RPGs have fallen somewhat in popularity; OtakuBoards should change with the times to recognize that

[quote name='SunfallE][COLOR=RoyalBlue']If the changes will help remove that confusion then I?m all for it, but I wonder if it really will improve overall quality since I haven?t really seen a lot of threads that are absolutely loaded with swearing. Poor quality posts perhaps, but swearing? I?ve seen far more poor quality issues than the other. But then I don?t take the time to completely follow all the threads in that area as don?t have the time for it. [/COLOR][/quote] See, I don't think that will happen immediately. I won't try to convince anyone that removing profanity won't automatically make Gohan2349 a better roleplayer. That would be an unreasonable argument. However, I think one effect that will be effective immediately is that the area will become cohesive with the OtakuBoards culture. Especially if the proposed redesign goes through. Additionally, the first impression will be improved---and that's important, I think. The appearence of the forum will be immediately improved. Many people might visit the site, enter that area and see nothing but a sea of M-rated threads and confusing ratings. I think that if we eliminate that negative impression and the intimidating/cumbersome/unclear ratings system, there's a [i]chance[/i] that the area will see an increase in activity over time. I'd say that there's a wider appeal in a cleaner, friendier image, and a simpler interface. So if we're talking instant benefits, that's what I'm going to use as my pitch here.

[QUOTE=DeathKnight][color=crimson]So the theory is that the piss poor roleplayers we have making their shoddy little crudheaps full of unnecessary cursing/sexuality/violence will find the path to being good roleplayers by washing their mouth out with soap? Or am I not following this correctly.[/color][/QUOTE] You're not really looking at the bigger picture, that's all. I think that good roleplayers will always be good roleplayers. If a restriction is set, good roleplayers will be able to tell good stories without throwing around swear words constantly or fluffing up their writing with detailed sex scenes. If you look at most of the RPs in that area, these things could be removed and the stories would read better. So, by moderating the forum more strictly we're not really doing a disservice to good roleplayers but at the same time, we're preventing the poor ones from trashing up the forum with a bunch of needless profanity. Their RPGs won't necessarily improve dramatically, but at least the forum will be uniform with the rest of the site by reflecting its standards. Furthermore, I think that the rating system is really cumbersome. It's obvious by some of the replies in here that it's not clear and it's not really user-friendly. We're also relying on members' discretion which is obviously not such a hot idea judging by the rated M Yu-Gi-Oh RPGs we have. We also have people rating RPGs as "mature" because they're [I]afraid [/I] of getting moderated. The rating system is counterproductive; it intimidates some and results in a lot of hassle when threads have to be closed because of people who forget to include ratings. I don't think this is a desirable system based on these problems. This reboot idea is something that Shy and I have been discussing for the past two days and it has matured into what it has--an area for games, stories and RPGs. I think that the overall tone should be simple, fun and inclusive instead of a bunch of needless profanity. So, you can oversimplify anything and make it look dumb but if you look at the bigger picture here, it makes sense.

[quote name='Dagger']Just to be clear--would the specially requested "M" rating also allow for profanity, or are you suggesting automatically censoring profanity and using that rating for RPGs with a lot of violence or sexual content?~Dagger~[/quote] We could do two things here: 1) Reimplement the swear filter and allow people to request an "M" rating for graphic violence or sex scenes. Or 2) Keep the swear filter turned off and require people to get permission before including it and other "adult" material. I think that the first option would probably be more effective and easy to moderate. [QUOTE=ForgotteÑ-HerÖ][COLOR=DimGray]I love the idea all-together. I've noticed if someone has an interesting story sometime's nobody reads it. So putting them together woul increase the number of replies. If this makes out perfectly, I see the Arena's popularity[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]skyrocket.[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]Maybe some people just put the [M-VLS] ratings just to attract people. Since not many people say[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]'huraa'[/COLOR] [COLOR=DimGray]to [E] or [PG] rated threads.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] Yep. Also keep in mind that once the profanity is eased up, people who have been avoiding the forum because of its offensive nature might be interested in visiting it. I've always preferred the theme of "fun" and inclusiveness over senseless profanity.

I was talking with Alan and he introduced the idea of just indicating what each thread is by tagging it with [Game], [Story], etc. *edit: as he just said above me. I also think that people can put in special requests for M-rated RPGs to the staff before they create an RPG. They would make a "pitch" telling the staff of the area why their writing needs to be "M" rated and they could decide whether to allow it or not. We'll also have to make sure that the word "game" doesn't become a euphemism for "spam." Overall, I think that this redesign is much-needed and will promote creativity.

Yeah, completely rebooting with Games and Stories is something we've been discussing that I think would be the ideal solution here. I think that every forum goes through its phase and we need to keep up with the times by recognizing that role-playing games have kind of given way to the popularity of games. OB Anthology obviously doesn't cut it on its own, so streamlining everything and acknowledging the increased popularity of games on the site would help bolster the entire area. Make it happen! Shy and I are old so we know what's best.

First of all, I expect opposition to this idea; I do not expect this suggestion to be very popular at all. I don't even expect this suggestion to be used. However, I think it makes a lot of sense to introduce this idea and get people thinking about it. In my opinion, we should eliminate vulgarity from Adventure Square. First of all, I think that vulgarity is just pretty needless in Adventure Square. Others, such as Alan, have pointed out how it seems like almost every single RPG is rated "M". I think this image he provided speaks volumes: [CENTER][IMG]http://a6.vox.com/6a00c225232604f21900cdf7ea686e094f-pi[/IMG][/CENTER] Although this image is outdated, all one needs to do is visit the forum and it's pretty much the same story. Before vulgarity was allowed on the boards we saw awesome RPGs like Meteo City and Maverick Hunters flourish. Now, we have a forum littered with needless profanity--and I think that the allowance of profanity has contributed to the decline of quality in the forum. I do not blame profanity alone for the decline in quality and I do not think that reducing profanity will automatically improve things--but it will be a start. There's no reason why a "Star Wars vs. Halo" RPG needs cussing or sex. There's no reason why a Digimon RPG should feature a "mature" warning. I think that members are abusing profanity and using it as a crutch instead of being truly creative. Quite frankly, I think that the content of Adventure Square clashes sharply with the rest of the site in a very bad way. Adventure Square comes off as "trashy" compared to the rest of the site. If profanity was being used artistically and only when necessary, I do not think it would be a problem, but it has clearly overtaken the forum and offers absolutely nothing positive to most of the RPGs it is featured in. You could take out the profanity in 99.9 percent of those RPGs and they would read [i]better[/i] than they did with it. If I had a child who visited this site, I definitely would not want them visiting Adventure Square due to its content (which ironically is frequently written by youngsters). OB Anthology isn't bad at all actually, but it would probably be best if we at least rebooted Adventure Square and required people to write creatively without using profanity as a crutch.

[QUOTE=Sandy]That, Charles, is a stinking lie. This thread is the [I]only[/I] one in a whole year that has made my blood boil, and for a very good reason I'd say. Who am I flaming? Who am I calling names? Who am I mean to?[/quote] Sandy, what forum are you browsing? No matter if you had one outburst or several, the fact of the matter remains: your outbursts, even in this very thread, were completely uncalled for, just as your tone here is completely uncalled for. There was absolutely no "very good reason" for you to throw this hissy fit in this thread. Your doing so made a mockery of Shy's position, and I think you are the one who desperately needs to apologize to Shy and the memberbase at large. Not only are you implying that I am a liar, when you can see by my lengthy history at this site that I am as honest and as polite as possible most of the time, but you are outright denying an indisputable fact that we all have witnessed. I do not know what you define as "a very good reason" but earlier within this thread when people were providing you with feedback for your event, you blatantly flamed them. Here's another thread where exhibit a nasty attitude: [url]http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=54615[/url] Here is another recent example where you flew off the handle: [url]http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=55620&page=2&pp=15[/url] Or how about when you called Americans arrogant for things that happened decades ago and then got upset when people refuted your posts: [url]http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=55509&page=4&pp=15[/url] How about when you got nasty with me over my opinion in the death penalty thread: [url]http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=55283&page=5&pp=15[/url] This one is over a year old, but who could forget such a beauty (since your attitude earlier in this thread mirrored the behavior in this link perfectly: [url]http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=49490[/url] It is not just me saying this, Sandy. This is something the entire memberbase has seen. You have consistently exploded at the slightest provocation, and Otaku Idol 2 is concrete proof of your almost willingness to "play the victim." I find it laughable that you have the gall to sit here and accuse me of lying about this when I certainly have no reason to fabricate anything. Because the proof is in the pudding, to borrow a lousy phrase. My good buddy Papa Smurf, has been banned for far less than the crap you routinely throw around--and you're a staff member. I question why you're in a contest which requires a good relationship with the community and I question why you're still a moderator at all when you treat people the way you do. [quote]Seriously, I'm a straightforward and honest person, not very tactful or humble, and if you or anybody else don't like it, then that's your problem, not mine. I'm sick and tired of having to make excuses for my personality to a bunch of anonymous, faceless people on the internet. I am who I am, and you just have to deal with it. But please don't make false accusations that I am nothing but a flamer, which you know isn't true.[/quote] Straightforward and honest! Ha! You're nothing of the sort. You have no idea how to express yourself properly; your attempts at doing so often result in insulting and condescending tangents. It is possible to be honest and respectful at the same time. Again, look at White's reply to the question: in no way did White outright disrespect r2vq on a personal level. You, on the other hand single me out in a degrading way. Whether or not that was your intention, I don't know. The fact of the matter here is that in the context of this competition, your inability to relate to the memberbase in a respectful, friendly way is not my problem--it's [i]your[/i] problem. Earlier in this thread you flamed people because they criticized [i]your[/i] event. Look at these posts: [url]http://www.otakuboards.com/showpost.php?p=756327&postcount=25[/url] [url]http://www.otakuboards.com/showpost.php?p=756415&postcount=47[/url] [url]http://www.otakuboards.com/showpost.php?p=756470&postcount=57[/url] I could have isolated more of your posts, but these should suffice as a clear example of your pretentious attitude and tendency to overreact. All the while, you kept dismissing criticism and flaming others, while insisting that Labyrinth is [i]your[/i] event when in fact, you're not supposed to make events for you--they're for the [i]community.[/i] [quote]A completed dick? Because I [I]dared[/I] to single you out, instead of some less active moderator? My point may have not been as valid as White's, but I couldn't think of anybody else in the staff that wouldn't earn my [I]full[/I] respect (and I did say you did your job as good as every else).[/quote] Well, I can't say that I care for your full respect anymore. I'm starting to think that you're trying to make a name for yourself by singling me out here just by your language (i.e.,"daring" to single me out). If you had said that you thought I did a good job but disliked my use of image replies I would have been fine with that. But, to publicly say that you don't respect me as much as other staff members? Ha. Earlier in this thread you said that an event couldn't be made in the timespan you were given that involved everyone. Otakupedia sure proved you wrong. Hey, Otakuties looks like it's involving everyone. Perhaps you should learn from me instead of being a complete tool and picking on me for trivial things like image replies that I barely use. [quote]I wasn't aware that we moderators were some sort of secret community or political party where you can't disagree with one another, or have to hold up a facade to show "how unified we are".[/quote] We're supposed to be a team. You're free to disagree with me, but the way you're putting me down, a colleague, in front of everyone is just completely disrespectful and contradicts the team mentality that good staff members have. We're supposed to be a cohesive unit but here you are just insulting (not critiquing me) me for the boards to see. Instead of focusing on my image replies, maybe you should look at how poor of a teammate you are being and improve on that. And again, that's [i]your[/i] problem. [quote]Again, how am I treating people? I have been on a defensive stance for the duration of this whole thread, so I've only been crappy to those who've been crappy towards me. And not nearly even in the worst possible way I could've be. To be "funny" is the last thing I've been trying to do. I have [I]tried[/I] to remain calm and collected, but with all this baseless "ooh, Sandy is an explosive dickhead, he's no good for this place, the whole forum would come crashing down if he were to win" -mentality going on, who wouldn't be irritated?[/quote] I think I've made my case clear. You're delusional and I don't know what kind of Finnish drugs you're smoking, but you're not on the defensive. You're the one who treats people badly, gets called on it, and then pretends to be a victim. You've done this before to me via pm and I've forgiven you because you suggested that there's a language barrier at the root of this problem, but I'm starting to think that it's an attitude problem on your side. Before I was impartial but now I have to say it--for the sake of this site, I hope that if there's a winner here, it's White. Especially if category moderator powers are to be distributed.

[quote name='Sandy]Honestly though, I'm just tired of this crap being thrown in my direction constantly. White responded to the question before me, so I felt I needed to be on the same level with him and answer it as well. We were [I]required[/I'] to, as well.[/quote] Crap being thrown your direction constantly? When I provided a critique of your event I remained completely objective and made my best effort to be constructive. Although White also singled out a fellow staff member (which I would not have done) he was careful to make his criticism as delicate and relevant as possible. White pointed out that he felt r2vq could be more active while reminding readers that r2's computer isn't working properly. He also said that when r2vq is active he does his job well. There is a key difference between delicately critiquing someone and saying that you have the least amount of respect for them in comparison to their peers. Then again, your criticism of me only demonstrates your complete misunderstanding of me. I would say that your abrasive attitude towards others when you constantly fly off the handle is more offensive than any of my images--and more frequent to boot. Maybe all this "crap" is being thrown your direction constantly because maybe, just maybe you bring it upon yourself. You claim to wonder why I'm allowed to post images without being corrected, so in all fairness I wonder why you're constantly allowed to flame others with your ****** attitude without being corrected. [quote]Our only difference in that interview is that I didn't kiss [I]your[/I] behind like White did, so if that makes me a worse person then so be it.[/QUOTE] The only difference is that White didn't sound like a complete dick, while you did. Even when White is asked to provide criticism of his peers, he knows how to do so without being hurtful. It doesn't matter WHO White respects; his accomplishment here is being tactful even when providing a critique of his peer. Maybe you should work on your attitude towards others before undertaking a position where you create events for them. It's true--I post images sometimes but I never do with the intention of seriously upsetting anyone. You, on the other hand treat people like crap while not being funny at all. Try to be introspective here, pal. Anyway, here's a classic pic for old time's sake. [CENTER][IMG]http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2641/stoppostingkx6.gif[/IMG][/CENTER]

[QUOTE=Sandy]Oh no, don't misunderstand me! X/ I said the pictures are the [I]only[/I] reason why I think less of you, and I [I]know[/I] how small part of your posts they are. I didn't mean to imply I had [I]no[/I] respect towards you at all, quite on the contrary. If I don't like one thing about you, it certainly doesn't mean I don't like anything about you. So please, don't take my words the wrong way... :/ It was a very unfair question, but I felt I needed to answer it anyway.[/QUOTE] Take your words the wrong way? Not at all. I'm not even offended at this point; I just think that your response to the question showed a complete lack of class. Back when I first started moderating on these boards the staff was tightnit and although we didn't always agree with one another, we would never publicly point out who we had the least amount of respect for; doing so would have been very taboo to say the least. It wasn't even an issue to begin with because we all respected one another highly for different reasons--even if we weren't necessarily friends. Quite frankly, I think everyone who seriously contributes to this site deserves an equal amount of respect whether or not I like what they say or do. If I were asked that question I would have simply said that I thought everyone on the staff was doing their job suitably. Had I decided to point out something that I didn't like about someone, I would never say that I respected them the least out of everyone on the staff. Ethically, I wouldn't have been able to single anyone out like that--but that's just me obviously. Maybe things have changed on this site since I started though. But, it's not your fault; not everyone is tactful or classy.

I think the thing that makes our relationship so great is that I have little to no respect for you as well because you always seem to complain about my pictures when they're such a small part of my posting here.

[quote name='Tekkaman][font=Palatino Linotype][size=2][color=gray]Well, at least I know that you notice me on OB now, heh.[/color][/size'][/font][/quote] Wow. Just wow.

Maaaan, when you've got indifference not being indifferent, you definitely know you're wrong.

I was thinking about ignoring this reply out of kindness but I have to quote it. [QUOTE=di.fm]Think about it. Now, I know some of you may not be Xbox fans either but lets put it into perspective. The PS3 costs $600, correct? Correct. How much does the high-end Xbox 360 cost? $400? Yes. Howa bout the HD DVD player? $250. Boom. You've just payed more for an Xbox 360 than you would've if you bought a PS3. Not to mention paying for Xbox Live if that's your cup of Joe. Howa bout the wireless headset? $60. See what I'm saying here?[/quote] What? Joe, I know that you're not a Sony fanboy. Right? Or have you recently landed a Sony PR job that I'm not aware of? First of all, as a gamer, I love options. Right now, it's not entirely clear which format is going to be the victor--HD DVD or Blu-Ray. So, I'd rather not be forced to invest in either format. At least if HD DVD fails, I will not have wasted $200 on the add-on. So, boom! As far as hidden costs are concerned (and Blu-Ray is a big one in and of itself), the 360 came bundled with a wired headset, at least. Does the Playstation 3 come with a headset at all? From what I've heard, it does not. Also, what if I want to watch my great new Blu-Ray movies in high definition? Or play my games in high definition? I'd be screwed if I bought a Playstation 3 expecting something as fundamental as component cables to be included. But, then again Microsoft included them with the Xbox 360, so go figure. Let's not even get started on the Playstation 3 upscaling issue. [quote]So what if the PS3 costs $600 out of the gate? You're gonna pay that much if you're gonna enjoy the Xbox to its fullest. Even the Wii isn't safe from the grasp of moeny conflicts. $250 for the system, then maybe $40 for some good HD cable. $60 a pop for the whole controller setup. Wii points for the downloadable games. (And I know many of you younger gamers will be all over the retro games so you can see what we, the older crowd, played back when.)[/quote] Yes, "so what" if the price is justified beyond the PS3 being a Trojan Horse for Blu-Ray tech--but it isn't. "So what" if I hadn't been playing most of the PS3 launch line-up in superior condition since early this year on the 360. "Playstation 3. So what?" is right. It should be the official slogan surrounding the system right now. You're also mistaking the Wii for an HD system; for most consumers who buy the Wii, HD won't even be a concern. I would say that it's a bigger crime on Sony's part for forcing gamers to buy the component cables seperately when HD is the cornerstone of Sony's next generation plans. But, you know, I'm not even going to compare the Wii pricing to the Playstation 3's price. I could buy a Wii and several games for the cost of a PS3 alone. Let's look at the Xbox 360 instead. I walked into EB yesterday and bought Project Gotham 3 for $19.99 and saw many other quality titles for under $30. Many of these games cost $60 for the Playstation 3. On the bright side of things, at least EA is bringing back 2D sprite-based gaming with Fight Night's crowd's. Although, I'm not sure that's a good thing. Stop trying to play the cost game. [quote]The fact remains; games cost money. You need to spend money to enjoy your games. Its a fact. Its always going to be like that so all I can say is suck it up and stop bashing Sony for being so blunt with their pricing. (Among other things, but all systems have defects.) If anything I applaud Sony for slapping that $600 sticker on the system. At least they're not slapping us in the faces like Xbox and Nintendo with hidden 'fees'[/quote] Yes, games cost money. Thanks for clarifying that. So, you can bend over and let Sony rape you for $600 if you want, while applauding at each thrust, but I'll wait until there are some games worth playing.

[quote name='Phenom][size=1][color=blue]Talk about being out of the loop. What about the Assasins's Creed treatment? Microsoft and Nintendo have access to that title or something? So it's a high possibilty that MGS4 and DMC4 will get imported to other consoles as well? Or am I just way off?[/size'][/color][/quote] Both turned out to be "timed exclusives." They were both initially announced for the Playstation 3 only and later on the developers announced Xbox 360 versions. It's been rumored that Konami will force a MGS 4 Port for the 360, similar to what Capcom did to Resident Evil 4 when a Playstation 2 port was announced. And, with the sales that Capcom is enjoying on the 360, it would surprise me if they [I] didn't[/I] port DMC 4 over. Like I said--Resident Evil 4. $$$$$$ I just think it's weird to talk about having "faith" in any video game company. If a console is offering good games and good features I get it. There's no faith involved. It's all about making informed decisions.

They will fix the backwards compatibility with a firmware update eventually. As for faith in Sony--I'll have some faith when they stop losing exclusives. Most of you have probably heard about Virtua Fighter 5 being the latest "exclusive" to receive the Assassin's Creed treatment. Once Metal Gear Solid 4 and Devil May Cry 4 get ported, I'll literally have no reason to invest in a Playstation 3 for a while. The price tag will be fine enough if Sony can fix up the many nagging problems annoying unfortunate early adopters, while ponying up the cash to give me something that I can't already play on the 360. The price tag is not offensive when you consider the technology that Sony is pushing but such a price tag automatically raises scrutiny and expectation. Right now, there's simply no justification for a purchase.