James

[color=royalblue]So you're telling me that a well-aimed missle which then goes astray of its own accord is the exact same thing as deliberately taking a fuelled-up plane and ploughing into towers full of people? That's ridiculous. As for attacks/cultures...I'm not saying that "these cultures" are backward. The terrorists are driven by fundamentalist religious dogma and little else. Their specific reasons for attacking the United States have little to do with the country's real affect on the Middle East at large. So to try and make some vague religious motivation a legitimate justification is pointless. There are huge differences between the motivations and goals of both entities.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i] [B][font=gothic][color=crimson]So, American is justified in the killing of innocents, due to their cause, but the Taliban isn't, that's what you're saying. To the Taliban and their ilk, America is as corrupted and evil as the Taliban is to us. The difference is intent then. They meant to kill innocents, America didn't. That's the only real difference, and intent means nothing. So there is no difference.[/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=royalblue]Yes, intent does make a significant difference. And this is exactly why the world is not simply black and white. I am not saying that America is justified in killing innocents due to their cause. You posted in your message that I said that...when I didn't. And that is your first fundamental mistake. When you are ready to argue against my [i]real[/i] points, please do so. I don't appreciate people making up ficticious things that I'm supposed to have said. Secondly, let's look at this in a realistic fashion. Al Qaeda essentially bombed and destroyed two towers, killing thousands of people -- people who had done absolutely nothing to deserve such a fate. And America's response has been to enter Afghanistan and attack the Taliban/Al Qaeda -- initially by air and then on land. Your above comments surprise me in the sense that they are highly naive. In a wartime situation, civilians are going to die. That doesn't make their death acceptable, nor does it mean that their importance is diminished. But did America go over to Afghanistan in the first place and deliberately kill as many civilians as humanely possible? Of course not. That is what [i]Al-Qaeda[/i] did. In fact, the United States put a great amount of effort in deliberately targetting military-based compounds and infrastructure. Did Al-Qaeda try to approach their attack with similar dilligence? No, of course not. I'm sure you can see where this post is going -- I shouldn't have to explain the logic behind this method of thinking any further as it should be obvious to any person reading. There is an utterly massive difference between an accidental, off-course missile, compared to flying a loaded plane into a tower, with the intent to muder as many people as possible. Don't insult my intelligence any further by making such naive assumptions...you know very well what the difference is and you know very well what my point is.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] [B]James, look on a map and see where you are. I seem to remember that you are allowed to have any point of view with out others putting you down for it in this country, am I wrong? [/quote][/b] [color=royalblue]So just because we are from the same country, I'm supposed to accept a view/opinion which misrepresents the facts? I'm not putting anyone down personally, but I have just as much right as anyone to be critical of someone's opinion/comment. Others will agree or disagree with me and they are free to voice their own opinions, I'm certainly not stopping them.[/color][quote][b] And I have that you do not care at all about the people dieing right now because of American air raids all because "they started it." This is getting extremely childish now. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=royalblue]Once again, you're taking a broad range of my comments and attempting to summarize them in a very simplistic fashion. Of course I care that civilians in Afghanistan have died due to air raids. Did I ever say otherwise? No, I didn't. But you must understand the differences here. We are talking about one group of people being maliciously murdered and we are talking about another situation where some people are dying because they are unfortunately in the middle of a warzone. I am not under the illusion that the United States is [i]deliberately[/i] killing innocent people. It's very unfortunate and I am greatly saddened by the death of any innocent person. But America is completely justified in what it is doing in Afghanistan; if it just sits on its hands and does not attempt to physically remove entities like the Taliban or Al Qaeda, who is going to do it? To try and compare the two situations is not very constructive. I've never cast a wide generalization here -- I've spoken very specifically about my concerns. If you honestly believe that I support innocent Afghans dying (just because I support going after terrorists), then you are not only mistaken...but I would really have to wonder how anyone could so blatantly misinterpret what I've said. It is that kind of misinterpretation which makes this discussion stupid/silly. The discussion itself is completely fine, but only if you don't resort to making silly generalizations about my comments.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] [B]Why will know one see this from the middle eastern countries point of view? [/B][/QUOTE] [color=royalblue]I think we have all considered that point of view. But some of your comments are not really representing that view in its totality. And the view of bin Laden is certainly illegitimate and unreasonable, so there isn't much point in entertaining it. The Harlequin: Nobody is calling you insane or unreasonable, and I certainly haven't called anyone those things. I've merely said that some [i]opinions[/i] are unreasonable.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i] [B][font=gothic][color=crimson]First unreasonable, now insane. Why is everyone so undiplomatic?[/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=royalblue]What is undiplomatic about opposing mass murder?[/color]

[color=royalblue]Precisely. This is really simple; you're talking about a large group of [i]innocent[/i] people being ruthlessly murdered. To even begin to somehow try and present a supporting point of view is nothing short of insane.[/color]

[color=coral]I could cut the stupidity in the air with a knife. I'm not even going to dignify that above post with any kind of thoughtful response.[/color]

[color=coral]Yeah, I know you're looking at it from that point of view...but it is nonetheless unacceptable, no matter what kind of opinion or view you have. I don't care what beef he has or how he thinks the USA has been unjust...he has [i]no[/i] right to commit murder. Nobody does. Had he declared war on the USA and attacked military only targets...then perhaps more people would say something like "okay, I can see where he is coming from". But the WTC had a daycare center in it...he even managed to kill defenceless children. And there is no justification on Earth for that.[/color]

[color=coral]Otaku is basically interpreted in the west as meaning "hardcore fan". And really, in that sense, it's a subjective word. Even if you only know of two different animes...you might be a really ultra hardcore fan of both. So I think that people can really determine on their own whether or not they are an otaku.[/color]

[i]Karu walked down the hallway from his room to the kitchen. He could smell fresh pancakes cooking. Upon arriving in the kitchen, Karu took some pancakes from a plate on the counter and served them to himself. He sat down and just as he was about to take his first bite, he looked through the front window and saw his mother standing on the path outside. She was talking to a tall man, who was wearing a deep green cloak with a thick white scarf around his neck. He was holding a long ivory cane with a jewel sitting snugly in the head. And from what Karu could see, the two appeared to be having a heated argument. Karu got off the chair and crept toward the front door, which was sitting slightly ajar. He peered through and listened as best he could...[/i] [b]Man:[/b] I hope you realize, m'lady, that you are several weeks behind on your payments. [b]Alice:[/b] Of course I realize that...but what more can I do? I have a twelve year old son to look after! If I don't have the money, I can't give you anything, can I? [b]Man:[/b] Well, you'd better find the money...and quickly. My colleagues are becoming rather impatient. [b]Alice:[/b] They can wait. They have plenty of money as it is...my contribution won't exactly help them. [b]Man:[/b] No, perhaps not...but I get a big fat commission. And you really don't want me to miss out, do you? [b]Alice:[/b] ... [b]Man:[/b] Heh, a pretty thing like you...why...maybe I can give you a little extension on your loan if you give me my commission yourself... [b]Alice:[/b] Blagh, don't come any closer... [b]Man:[/b] Bwah hah hah...my dear, one way or the other, I will get my money. And if you're [i]really[/i] lucky, you and I can have some fun as well... [b]Alice:[/b] Get off my property. Now. [b]Man:[/b] Heh, alright alright...don't get your knickers in a twist...I just came to give you a friendly reminder. [b]Alice:[/b] ... [i]Karu heard the man walking off. He immediately walked back to his chair and sat down, pretending that he hadn't moved. Alice walked in and closed the door behind her, making sure to lock it. She looked at Karu and smiled. Karu admired his mother. Even though the experience just now must have been horrible and frightening, she didn't let on whatsoever. Karu loved her for that. He also loved her for her strength. When his father had died, his mother had been the sole support in his life. Without her, he didn't know where he'd be. She spent all of her time making sure to provide for him (which had become more difficult without his father) and she seemed to focus all her energies on providing a good life for them both. Karu ate his pancakes quietly. Alice walked over to the counter and poured a small glass of goat's milk. She sipped slowly, doing her level best to control her shaking hand.[/i] [b]Karu:[/b] Everything okay? [b]Alice:[/b] Yes...fine, Karu. [i]Karu continued to eat his breakfast quietly. It was school holidays in Glorethroth and right now he wished he was at school -- he didn't want to see his mother like this. It made him feel awkward.[/i] [b]Karu:[/b] I'm going to go to the mountains with Calya today, mother... [b]Alice:[/b] Oh? [b]Karu:[/b] Yeah, we're going to hunt for tree gnomes. [b]Alice:[/b] Oh...well, be careful, won't you? [b]Karu:[/b] 'course. :) I better go get ready now... [b]Alice:[/b] Okay. I'm going to wash up here. [i]Karu smiled at his mother and made his way back to his room...[/i]

[color=royalblue]Despite the whole Saturn issue, the Dreamcast ultimately failed due to SEGA. And that's really all there is to it. SEGA lacked the courage to make some tough decisions during Dreamcast's early life and that created a downhill run for the console. Mr. Iwata (now President of Nintendo Co., Ltd.) has basically said that consoles won't be getting much more powerful anytime soon. He's saying that games are starting to approach the physical limits, when it comes to graphics and sound production. And therefore, he's saying that Nintendo will be focusing on gameplay and on creating new types of games in all-new genres, rather than focusing on rolling out "GameCube 2" anytime soon. I'm sure Nintendo will produce another console, but, like the SNES, Nintendo clearly feels as though it is able to push GameCube a lot further than it could with the N64. And really, for those who have purchased GameCube (and perhaps especially those who will purchase it in future), we can be assured that Nintendo will support the console in a longterm context, rather than simply releasing its successor prematurely. Remember, they were making SNES games well into the life of N64. And that was probably due to SNES's overall success. GameCube can be just as successful though. Nintendo plans to sell around 50 million units by 2005. And that is a fairly conservative estimate, as it is already 1.5 million units ahead of target. So I think that Nintendo will have every reason to support this console for a long time. Let's face it, GameCube is probably the most well-balanced machine Nintendo has ever produced. Its proprietary media is cheap and easy to work with...and most importantly, it is invulnerable to piracy. And of course, the console itself is more than powerful enough to last for several years. So I think that more or less, Nitendo was reiterating what it has always believed in -- consoles are not the focus...they are the tool through which you provide software-based entertainment. If you have a good formula with your console, then you are in a position to explore new ideas in gaming, rather than focusing on hardware issues.[/color]

You don't seem to understand. The Taliban were not a cohesive force and thus, they were not even classed as an [i]organization[/i] of any sort at the time. The USA was never dealing with the Taliban (although they may have been dealing with some [i]individuals[/i] who became a part of that specific group in subsequent years). The Taliban as it existed in the 1990's didn't exist in the 80's. So we're talking about apples and oranges here. The group came about purely as a way of forcefully taking down opposing forces in the country.

Of course, if something was learned, that is important. But if you read your previous posts, that isn't really what you were saying. Your arguments seem to be shifting a little as time goes on. The Taliban (whether using that name or not) was not even a cohesive force during the war in Afghanistan in the 1980's. So that whole point is completely redundant.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i] [B][font=gothic][color=crimson]I'll concede I may have made a contextual error when I said power struggle. Afghanistan was a pawn. The USA goaded Russia into making a move. They strengthened their military, and made a pronouncement that they would help other countries resist incursions by the Russians. They basically asked the Russians to attack someone. The USA never openly supported the Taliban, but they did arm and fund them, fully aware of Taliban dogma. [/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=darkblue]Once again, you're partly right. But your facts tend to be mixed in with the wrong context here. You can't possibly tell me that an invasion and subsequent ten year war was merely based on US provocation. Russia had a vested interest in taking Afghanistan and it wasn't as though they were doing so simply to provoke the United States. Russia invested ten years in that war. And they realized pretty early on what the situation was. The USA [i]never[/i] armed or funded the Taliban. That is most definitely incorrect. I think you have your time periods somewhat mixed up. The Taliban came into power [i]well after[/i] the Russians withdrew from Afghanistan. And thus, they came into power well after the United States had offered weaponry to the Afghans. The weaponry was only offered to fend off the Russian invaders, but it was certainly not specifically offered to the Taliban (and even then, you would have to dispute exactly [i]when[/i] the Taliban itself was formed...it didn't come into any cohesive force until the 1990's, well after the war ended). The weaponry used by the Taliban wasn't something provided to them by the USA directly -- they used old US/Russian weapons which had been retained from the war during the 1980's. As I mentioned, the USA is certainly not a 100% innocent party here. But they didn't do a thing to deserve 9/11. There is no way in hell you or anyone else can even attempt to justify those attacks.[/color]

[color=royalblue]SS Trunks, Flash has already created the sign up list...so uhh, I'm not sure if he's letting anyone else in (given how large the list is). But he might make an exception. ;)[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i] [B][font=gothic][color=crimson]Sorry James. The fact that history is allowed to repeat itself proves my point. Once getting to a certain point in his career, every leader starts to believe that he has done for his country than his predecessors, and ceases to learn from their predecessors mistakes. Human nature.[/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=darkblue]I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with this discussion...[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i] [B][color=crimson][font=gothic]That's my point. The entire invasion of Afghanistan and the subsequent defense by the USA was merely a power struggle between Capitalism and Communism. Russia wanted to know how far the USA would go to protect it's interest, in relation to the USA's military actions during that period. And the USA had supported the Taliban during their "friendly occupation" of the country as it was.[/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=sienna]The conflict in Afghanistan wasn't merely a power struggle between the USA and Russia. I think that's kind of glossing over what really happened. The USA never supported the Taliban. Most countries, during the Taliban's reign, provided absolutely no support or contact to the regime. Only Iraq and Pakistan ever even acknowledged that the Taliban was the "Government" of Afghanistan. And as mentioned, bin Laden's original involvement in the conflict didn't even have anything to do with the United States. So the point still stands, in the sense that you can't exactly blame the USA for all of these happenings; there are many who should take more blame than the United States.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i] [B][font=gothic][color=crimson]When the Americans sided against the Russians, they trained Bin Laden and his like, and then let the country be ravaged. They expended the lives of countless Afghans, all in their power struggle against Russia. If America hadn't been so cold-bloodedly manipulative, September 11 wouldn't haev happened, the Taliban wouldn't have been terrorising their citizens for the past however many years, and I wouldn't have 9 out of 10 people on my back about my glacial nature. And as for how I can be so empty of sympathy... well... let's just say that it takes a certain amount of coffee, jug of wine, loaf of bread, and < occupant >.[/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=coral]Okay, I'm sorry, but you're 100% wrong there. Russia was under the process of invading Afghanistan. And at that point, the Afghans didn't have a way of defending themselves from Russia. The United States decided to provide weaponry to the Afghan military, so that it could better defend itself against invasion. Of course, the core reason behind that was because the USA wanted to stop the spread of Communism. It was Russia's invasion of Afghanistan which caused such factionalization across the country. The entire nation became a series of warring factions and thus, several years of civil war broke out. The Taliban were merely one of these factions. They came into power directly because of Pakistan's involvement in the territory (Pakistan had an interest in seeing a "stable" Afghanistan). And thus, Pakistan provided weapons/support and ultimately supported the rise of the Taliban itself. So really, yes...the USA's involvement is what put weapons into the country. But at the time, this was done as a way of defending Afghanistan against Russia. You can't possibly blame the United States for simply "not seeing" the outcome of this action -- it wasn't the USA's fault if the Taliban ended up stockpiling the used weaponry in order to stabilize its own power in the country. Ultimately, it is Pakistan who originally supported the Taliban. It's important to get the facts right in this situation, so that you can understand the motivations behind different international actions/conflicts. Osama bin Laden is merely someone who couldn't perform his actions in Saudi Arabia...and thus, went to Afghanistan simply because of its lawlessness. It's useless to try and blame the USA or anyone else (besides Russia or Pakistan) for this occurrance.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i] [B][font=gothic][color=crimson]I too take great satisfaction in the fact that Bin Laden is America's creation. They got what was coming to them, and this had damn well better teach them that their national interests are secondary in other countries.[/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=coral]Are you serious? I'm prepared to admit, as much as anyone, that the United States primarily looks after its own interests. But what nation doesn't? Is that a reason to murder innocent people in cold blood? America didn't get what was coming to them at all. I don't know how you could be so dismissive of the situation. All this sort of action does, is further hatred and anger...and if anything, it's going to cause America to lash out further (because they have justification to do so). So if anything, bin Laden has demonstrated his sheer stupidity. He is claiming to somehow help the cause of fellow muslims, yet his actions are only making it more difficult for a positive outcome to occur. When I saw the WTC attack happening live, I didn't for a moment think "Finally America is getting what's coming to them". My first thought was how horrifying it must have been to actually be there...and how sick I would feel if a member of my family or friends were there at the time. I think your post was an example of how [i]not[/i] to view a situation such as this. As a human being, I find it very difficult to be so heartless and dismissive.[/color]

[i] The spring air in Glorethroth was warm and there were only two sounds to be heard; the gentle rustle of the tall grass swaying in the breeze and an occasional, sharp "thwack!" coming from somewhere in the field outside the city. "Thwack! Thwack!" The sharp sounds broke the monotonous rustling of the grass every few seconds. And in between, the sharp sounds were punctuated by giggling and whispering. The source of this noise was in the north of the field: two young elfin boys lay in the thick grass, slingshots at the ready. Both were carrying soft brown leather pouches with rope drawstrings, each pouch containing a small collection of Spring Nuts. Spring Nuts can be found only in the elfin city of Glorethroth and they are the ammunition of choice for young elfin boys with slingshots. The boy laying on the left fired a nut, which was met by a quiet "Ohh! Nearly got one!" from his companion. And then, the boy on the right would proceed to fire, his companion whispering "Darn! Missed again!". The boy on the left was easily identifiable -- his hair was completely white. He was the only boy in the entire city with white hair. And on many occasions, this caused others in his school to tease him, or strangers in the street to stare for a little too long. But nevertheless, he had several good friends. And his best friend was laying there in the field with him right now. The boy on the right was exactly the same height. And he even looked rather similar, causing many to mistake the two for brothers. The boy on the right had dark hair, however. And while everyone in the town was preparing for bed, Karu and Calya were laying in the field, shooting at fireflies with Spring Nuts. But soon, their fun ended. They heard a swift rustling in the grass behind them, causing them both to immediately sit upright. They could see an elfin woman walking towards them, her long dress fluttering in the breeze. Her long, brown hair was draped elegantly over her angular elfin ears. Despite her down-to-earth good looks, she had a distinctly unhappy expression on her face.[/i] [b]Alice:[/b] Karu! What are you doing out here at this time? [i]Karu scratched his head and put away his slingshot.[/i] [b]Karu:[/b] Aw sorry ma...we were just enjoying the clear moonlight. It hasn't been this clear in weeks. :( [i]Calya stood up and nodded, but said nothing. Alice sighed. She knew that during the last few weeks, it had been rather cloudy over Glorethroth. And she knew that the children hadn't had much of a chance to play in the field, which had always been their favourite pasttime.[/i] [b]Alice:[/b] I know, Karu...I know. But it's a little too late for you to be out here now. Let's go back inside. Calya, how would you like a glass of warm chocolate milk before you go home? [i]Calya beamed.[/i] [b]Calya:[/b] Yeah!! [i]In his excitement, he dropped the pouch of Spring Nuts, as well as his slingshot.[/i] [b]Calya:[/b] Oh...oops... :( [i]Karu glared at his friend. Alice put her hands on her hips and faked an angry expression.[/i] [b]Alice:[/b] So [i]that's[/i] what you've been up to! Well, I don't know what to say... [b]Calya:[/b] Please ma'am...don't tell my parents! They told me not to use my slingshot! :( [i]Alice smiled.[/i] [b]Alice:[/b] Yeah, gathering all those Spring Nuts from the high trees must be difficult. We wouldn't want you to have to give them up, would we? [i]Calya smiled and shook his head.[/i] [b]Alice:[/b] Okay. I won't tell your mother if you promise to come back to our house for some milk before you go home. [i]Calya nodded and picked up the pouch and slingshot. Karu nudged him and smiled.[/i] [b]Alice:[/b] Good. Come on, you two. [i]Alice turned and walked back towards their house, which was only a short distance from the field. Karu and Calya walked some way behind, making sure to discuss the important business of catching fireflies.[/i]

[size=1][color=tomato]Well, let's try and keep things on track. I already closed another thread in Otaku Lounge today because of an argument. It's dissappointing. :([/color][/size]

Where on Earth is this thread going? lol

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i] [B][color=deeppink]This thread is going astray...[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=coral]I agree. Some members appear to be creating arguments where there need not be any. Thread closed.[/color]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by NOFX_21212 [/i] [B]AT LUNCH, SOMETIMES WE'D PLAY FAST MANA, YOU LAY DOWN ALL LANDS IN YOUR HAND DURING TURNS, NOT TOO SURE IF IT WAS A REAL RULE, BUT OH WELL, I HAD A NICE RED DECK, LOTS OF DAMAGE SPELLS, PLUS MY CRIMSON HELLKITE, AND CRATER HELLIONS... THOSE WERE THE DAYS... [/B][/QUOTE] [color=coral]Please don't type in all-caps. It is generally considered to be a form of yelling on the Internet and is not recommended. :)[/color]

[color=coral]Well, the gameplay is really fundamentally different (athough FFXI is significantly more advanced in gameplay, in terms of huge teams and persistent worlds). Having said that, PSO performs better online so far. Its framerate remains smoothe and it manages to avoid lag to a largest extent (whereas so far, FFXI is plagued with it). Nonetheless, I'm sure both will be good games respectively -- especially when they are both available in all territories (and when bugs have been fixed)[/color]