Kneeko Artilles

Shenron is the cross-over spelling of Shenlong. When it cam over, the Americans called him Shenron, which I prefer to be honest, got more ZING to it. And if you're talking about Li Shenron, it works both ways, but Li Shenron was only created when Shenron split himself, each Dragon being the possesor of a dragonball, and being the master of a certain element, I have manegd to gather information to determine which on is which:- Ryan Shenron - No 2 Dragonball - Water Uu Shenron - No 5 Dragonball - Thunder Ryu Shenron - No 6 Dragonball - Wind Chi Shenron - No 7 Dragonball - Earth Su Shenron - No 4 Dragonball - Fire San Shenron - No 3 Dragonball - Ice Li Shenron - No 1 Dragonball - No Element

There's no way Turles could have been Goku's brother. And here's my explanation why:- Goku's Father was Bardock, and he had Raditz before Goku, making Raditz his forst born, the second born of all Saiyan's, looks almost identical to the Father. Raditz didn't because he was te first born. Also, any Saiyans born after the 2nd, are like the first, in that they don't look ilke their father. Female Saiyans look like their mother as opposed to their father. I can't remember where I found this, but it's apparently true. And since no-one has ever told me it isn't true before, I think that it is, any complains or corrections will be accepted, as I would like to know if it is true or not.

The one who fought the evil Shenrons was Gogeta. I haven't got any pics of his fighting them, but here's a pic of him at SS4.

It is a well thought out advantage from one point-of-view, to others it may be cheating, the people who say that without any thought will be those who jump to comclusions and follow others blindly. The people who think about it for a while, will be those who may see the truth, and make their own decisions in life. To prove this theory, answer me this - If a glass of water is sitting on the table, and exactly half the glass has water in, is it either half full, or half empty?

Yes, I am not niaeve (Sp?), and I can see ALL of the points of your side (I'm on my own here!). I respect every all of you have said, and to put this to rest, I'm going to use a quote from one of my all time faveourite films - "The Negotiator" "Well I didn't say I read just one book, I try to read all the books in a particular subject, and then decide for myself what really happened." - Chris Sabien. What I'm trying to point out, is that anyone reading this post, please look at all the facts, and don't believe that just because more people believe one side, that this side is the right one, make your own mind up. I think the reason (and there's not meant to be any offence in this) that most of you believe this, is because you have been "Brought up" to believe it, okay, maybe some of you haven't, but I think you believe it because no-one (Cept me!) has introduced you to a different side of the argument. I have done just this, and even though I am declaring that you officially won (Even though I'll still believe what I believe, and not what you believe), I have proved to myself that in my own way, that I am right. You're probably thinking I'm wierd, but this is just the way I am. I know that there are no hard facts to what I have said, but there are still too few facts to back up completely everything you guys (And gals maybe) have said, true I have less, but the fact (Haha) still remains, and Justin also said it, AT didn't state anything was true, but then, he didn't say any of it was not true, did he....

He didn't appear different to a SS2, because that was the highest form of Super Saiyan Vegeta had reached. If Vegeta had've reached SS3, Vegetto would have been able to as well. The reason for this, is that Vegeta was the dominant part of the Fusion! Also, Fusions created via the Patora Earrings, are naturally stronger than that of the Fusion Dance, so Vegetto would have been more powerful than Gogeta, of he had've been used. e.g, let's just say (Go with me), that Goku and Vegeta have these pls: Goku: 15,000,000 Vegeta: 10,000,000 SS Goku: 37,500,000 SS Vegeta: 25,000,000 SS2 Goku: 75,000,000 A Patora Earring Fusion of Vegetto would be (And please just go with me here!) - Goku PL + Vegeta PL x 3 (Just say) SS Vegetto: 187,500,000 Fusion Dance of Gogeta (Again, go with me!) - Goku PL + Vegeta PL x 2 (Just say) SS Gogeta: 125,000,000 Gogeta could've gone SS2, because Goku (The dominant of this Fusion) had gone SS2... SS2 Gogeta: 250,000,000 So, in theory, a better Fusion, would be one that uses the person with the more powerfu transformation as the dominant person, as they would then be able to reach that level. And although a Patora Earring has more potential, they have their downside of being permanent.

Actually, for your information, I don't know if you have heard of this site, The Dawn of Dragonball, closely linked to Planet Namek, both amazing websites. Well, the Dawn of Dragonball, was what made me realise the truth about Vegeta, before I read his comments (And believe me, he knows his ****!), I thought like you. The last thing I have to say, is that, remember when Vegeta said "Well, I'm glad to see you're more powerful the Gohan when he fought Cell", both Goku and Gohan were SS2, so Goku as a SS2 was more powerful, Vegeta had seen Goku's power in SS2 against Yakon, and realised he was inferior, so he let Babidi posses him to increase his actual power, not his transformation level!

Well if there was, i wasn't here then, and I wouldn't have known about it

It was a BRUTE ray. it gave hime BRUTE strength, hence the word BRUTE. He became a Golden Oozaru because of the brute ray giving him so much power. Actually, and I know this for a fact, Saiyans transform at the sight of the Full Moon, because it emmits things called "Brute Waves", these are the very same waves that make Warewolf Transformations occur. I've done my research on that before, for a little mythiology project. They do NOT, give out brote strength, it has a similar effect to the Saiyan Power Ball (Moon Simulator), it emmits tha brute waves needed to make the saiyan's transformation occur. I can see your side, I am not filled with pride like Vegeta, I can accept what you are saying, and in a way, yes, it could be seen as true, but I think we'll call this one a draw. I've given my case, you've given yours, but with all the people out there who have been brought up with this theory, that would give you more people in favour, so in numbers, you'd probably win, because not many people can see what I've said at first glance.

Goku was the strongest after he came back from the dead for a day. He could already go ssj3, he just chose not to. We know that, but at the time, Vegeta did not, remember how surprised he is to see the transformation when Goku powers up to it when fighting Buu. When Babidi possessed him, it gave him a surge of power. If you listened, Vegeta said that the only reason he allowed babadi to take control of him is because it would give him enough power to defeat goku. Yes, but raw power is what allows the transformation to Super Saiyan 3. Gotenks reached Super Saiyan 3, and never reached Super Saiyan 2 (As far as I can tell!), so why didn't Vegeta go Super Saiyan 3 instead?? Also, according to NEARLY ALL fansites, you need to be or pure heart, have at least partial saiyan dna, and a sudden burst of extreme anger to transform into all the forms of super saiyan except super saiyan 3. The brute ray gave Vegeta a ton of power. Vegeta never had the natural power to go ssj3. He needed a little extra boost to pass it and go on. If Goku could go Super Saiyan 3, and Vegeta was more powerful than Goku was then as a Super Saiyan 2, then doesn't that prove that he has the natural talent, all Saiyans were born with the ability to transform into all the Super Saiyan Levels, it was only the Z Fighters that harnessed these transformations. Now, for the whole SSJ4 deal. My counterthesis to this arguement is much simpler. Vejita DID cheat to get to SSJ4, if you break it down. He used a tool to become the Golden Oozaru. He couldn't have done it on his own due to his lack of a tail. Without becoming a Golden Oozaru, he wouldn't have become SSJ4. Therefore, without using a tool, he wouldn't have made the transformation to SSJ4. Thing is, when the hell did Vegeta lose his tail permanently. To lose a tail, a saiyan must have it either wished away, or pulled out at the very bottom of the root, and even after Piccolo did that to Gohan, his grew back. Vegeta's tail was only ever cut off by Yajirobe's sword (As far as we know), and never rooted or wished away. I know you can counter this argument by saying this: Then when did it grow back? Or something to that effect. My point is, that all Bulma's machine had to do, was to trick his mind into thinking that Vegeta had a tail and was looking at Moonlight, nothing else. As a by-product, his transformation was weaker than Goku's, and he went Golden Oozaru because he had previously gained enough power to become one.

I would like to clear up a nasty piece of work that has been going around for a long time. That being that Vegeta cheated to reach Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 4. Super Saiyan 2, Vegeta reached this Level before Goku even came back to Earth to compete in the tournament. This is proved in these ways:- 1. Vegeta constantly claims that he was far stonger than Gohan and Goku, and if you ask me, I don't really thing a Super Saiyan could be stronger than a Super Saiyan 2. I have taken Gohan's lack of Training into account, but he would still be stronger according to my calculations. 2. If he really did transform due to Babidi possessing him, at what point did he gain enough anger to transform. Unless my eyes are fooling me, at the point when he powered up and the blue lightning started surrounding his body, he was in a fairly calm state. 3. I do not believe this rumour I found:- Vegeta powered up to Super Saiyan 2 after being possessed, because he transformed into Super Saiyan while being possessed, and was simply trying to power up to it again. (I did edit the spelling and made it a bit more understandable). Basically, I don't think even Vegeta's arrogent and ignorrent enough to NOT know when he's in Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan 4, what comes just before this... Golden Oozaru:- Again, Vegeta did not cheat to reach this form. If anyone tells you that, it's a steaming pile of BS, and I will tell you why. Turning Oozaru is a natural Saiyan ability, that all Saiyans hold. Unlike Chibi-Goku, Vegeta did not have a tail to turn Golden Oozaru. Bulma used the Brute Ray on Vegeta so that he could turn Golden Oozaru, not SS4. Vegeta was then able to control his Oozaru form and turn SS4 by HIMSELF. Most fan sites on the net think that Bulma zapped Vegeta with the Brute Ray and an instant SS4 transformation took place. The people that think that obviously never watched DBGT and know nothing of what they're talking about. If anyone has anything to prove these facts wrong, please tell me (Politely), and I will give my opinion on it. Other people are COMPLETELY welcome to give their opinions, as this is not MY MB, it's just that I provided this evidence, and as such, hold myself in a better position to clarify my ideas, if ya know what I mean!

I've seen up to "I Kill no more", they showed up to there in England, but they haven't friggin carried on since then, and I'm getting really PISSED OFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I saw Goku go SS3, ages ago. The main thing I like about his SS3 transformation the first time, is the way his voice gets all high-pitched in short bursts, makes it really sound like he's in pain, or using up all his energy.

[URL=http://www.swords-online.com/website/navigator.cgi?type=display&language=&uid=4u9NTeVUuV&refid=None&from=medieval&goto=ci080&area=functional&sort=type&level=]Lionheart Sword[/URL] That Sword's called a Lionheart Sword. Found it at the same place safer_cloud found the Buster Sword. Shame it doesn't look anything like Squall's Lionheart Gunblade! [color=indigo]Merged this with the other sword thread. - Desbreko[/color]

I believe I found some proof that Square actually based all their Weapons' names and a few designs on Weapons of the past, or Weapons of Myth. Also, I visited Swordsonline, and found loads of swords from quite a few movies, the Green Destiny was up for sale!? A Replica obviously! Found this on the site:- "Lord of the Rings Sword The infamous "Lord of the Rings" sword measures 45" overall and has a high carbon spring steel blade measuring over 33" long! " Most of this site is dedicated to replicating the swords in films. Perhaps, because almost everyone in the Western World knows of the Final Fantasy series, these guys saw it and decided to make a buster sword. Well, that's my chatter over. One thing I'd like to point out about Cloud's Buster Sword, it's 9 stone right? Well, it isn't as big as Ultima Weapon, now imagine how heavy that would be!!