Down with Newbie Lounge--The Petition.

[Mitch]

[color=red] Blah. To much arguing

I have to say that I enjoy the Newbie Lounge. I am kind yet insane in that forum all in one person. I believe it is a good forum where I can just sit back, get rid of all of my intellectual boundaries, and become my true self and just let the other side of me, the sarcastic, witty, funny side, come out.

I admit some of the posts are quite spammy, and useless to kick, but most members properly introduce themselves, and say welcome to the newbie, even if it be in a sarcastical witty way, it is still a kind gesture.

I mean, I haven't seen anyone just sit there and type nothingness for all to read, most of the posts are spammy, yet they are to a point as well.

Although the Newbie Lounge [i]does[/i] seem useless, it serves as a good place where we can see new members, and keep track of where current members are going, or if they are back.

If you were to get rid of the Newbie Lounge, I am almost certain you would see an increase and spam elsewhere.

But I do think it is a rather useless forum, but at the same time I love it for some reason. So really, I don't know which way I side on this argument. On one side, the forum seems usless, on the other, I enjoy the forum to sit back and relax and be the other side, the not so itellectual side of me. So really I am passive on this. I'm not sure either way.

But whatever decision you make, I'm with it, James.

These are your boards, so it is your choice.[/color]

[Mnemolth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]

[B]

Refuge from what? OtakuBoards is recreational in nature, that's what it's here for. Look at the forums. Otaku Lounge has topics about plushies, real names, virtual pets, visual impression, etc. Look at the description of the forum. [B]"Take a seat, a warm cup of coffee and discuss off-topic stuff right here. Remember to keep to the rules."[/B] That sure sounds relaxed to me, [I]and[/I] the second sentence manages to sum up nearly everyone's reoccurring response in Newbie Lounge.

I feel that the other forums are more than lenient. Unless someone outright breaks the rules, there's little trouble to be had. It's obvious that there's plenty of room to "let your hair down." We have entire sections dedicated to anime, poetry, role-playing, media and gaming for crying out loud.

[/B][/QUOTE]

First off, let me just indicate I do not support a free-for-all spam-as-you-like forum. I support a more [b]lenient[/b] forum, where the rules [b]still[/b] apply but to a lesser extent. So that, as I will repeat again, you can let your hair down, and do all the silly childish nonsensical things that any sensible person is likely to do once in a while.

When I mention a 'refuge' I mean a place where you don't have to think about everything before posting it, where the main criteria is friendliness, not grammar, wit or intelligence; where you can post something on the high side of silly or stupid and no veteran or mod is going to jump down your throat with some snide discouraging remark, close your thread, or otherwise make you look and feel like a complete moron. And I'm sure most of you here know what I'm talking about.

When I say 'refuge' I do not mean a place for recreation or entertainment. I mean simply a place to let loose. Anime forum? Its gotta be anime related. Poetry section? Guess what? Poetry related. RPG? Well there are RPG rules to abide by...and so on.

The Newbie Lounge serves a function. It doesn't do it perfectly, and there are flaws in it sure, but don't chuck the baby out with the bath water. Many of the other forums on OtakuBoards don't function 100 per cent either.

What is the function of the Newbie Lounge? Basically its a place where Board members, both new and old, can be friendly and positive. People may repeat themselves, they may say things that are obvious, but you know what? At least they are responding to [b]you[/b]. They are both personable and positive. They are neither threatening, nor negative. And to most newbies, that can be comforting. And for old members it can be quite fun and rewarding.

And one last thing. The Newbie Lounge is not filled with posts from people like me. It is also not a place where many of the veterans or mods/admins venture. And quite frankly, thank God for that! :D

Variety is the spice of life. Just because you don't like spicy food is not a reason to get rid of the Newbie Lounge.

[Red]

[b]The newbie lounge can be an excellent place for newbies to be greeted cheerfully and in a relaxed frame of mind, but I have to agree with most of CWB's and James' points on the subject.

A lot, and I mean a [i]lot[/i] of really spammy posts go on in there (even I've done it before, getting carried away in the moment), as replies to what newbies have posted in the first place.

I can see how a lot of the newer people who post in the newbie forum or just look at the newbie forum will get the impression that the entire boards follow the same post quality, and continue to post in a similar fashion.

Sometimes threads just get out of hand in there, sometimes they appear to turn into mini-spars of a sort.

I say that the newbie lounge should be taken off the boards, and follow James' idea about "MyOtaku".[/b]

[Phantom]

I am forced to agree with Mnemolth to a varied extent. There should be an odd ball forum where we meet and greet newbies. But not a forum where we can just fool around. That is what chatrooms are for. If we abuse our newbie forum than we shall loose it. Have we abused it? Yes, so indignantly much that cwB made this thread.

In my opinion, if we decide to rid OB of the forum in question, than at least we should compensate for it in some minute way.

The thought of changing the name and characteristics of the newbie lounge to somthing else is very appealing, and forcing the posts to be of somewhat value is also appealing. A suggestion:

Instead of "MyOtaku", which looks rather tacky, "MyOB"..looks much more pleasing to the eye from my aspect of it. Just a suggestion. Maybe when the time comes we will start a naming convention thread..hehe.

Another thing about a general info section that would be appealing would be a random tutorial section of the forum. For all us graphically inclined folk with some free time to write tutorials that would be really good. Also, lets not limit that suggestion to graphics. Anyone who programs IRC script, Java, Flash (really its like java lol), C, C++, Perl, Php, Html...etc...

More mindless suggestions.

[Shy]

[size=1]I would like to hear more about "My Otaku" James. Something could be done to help the community aspect of the boards, maybe a special chatroom, A new personality quiz could be written up (want to help Mnemolth?) in addition to some general historical information about Otaku Boards' history. I know that Nerdsy has been dying to work on something involving Otaku History, and I would be more than willing to help in whatever way I can.

But those are just suggestions, everyone should put in their ideas. :p

-Shy[/size]

[Shinobi]

I loe the idea of Mystic's, Tuts! Everyone can componsatefrom the lose of the Web Design thread through this too! They can get help on whatever through tuts! Great idea, also Shy's ideas are great. I think we should get rid of it, and make way for "My Otaku" or "My OB"

[Solo Tremaine]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shyguy [/i]
[B][size=1]Something could be done to help the community aspect of the boards, maybe a special chatroom, A new personality quiz could be written up (want to help Mnemolth?) in addition to some general historical information about Otaku Boards' history. I know that Nerdsy has been dying to work on something involving Otaku History, and I would be more than willing to help in whatever way I can.

But those are just suggestions, everyone should put in their ideas. :p

-Shy[/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

These are really good ideas. I support them whole-heartedly.

I've never really had any inclination to go back to the Newbie Lounge after I joined. But, like everyone's said, it is really popular.

A suggestion- if the Newbie Lounge were scrapped, people could be encouraged to use their forum profiles more productively so they won't have to use an introductory post or whatever. I often look at them, but they don't tend to have that much detail. Maybe adding more features to it would make it more than just something that's occasionally looked at by random people. If more room were added they could write a paragraph or so about themselves there. Like a post that they have in their profile, in which they can write whatever they want (within reason).

Essentially, what the Newbie Lounge has become is a chatroom in thread form. I don't know what Shy's proposed chatroom would be about or for, but maybe having a general one for everyone else could keep Newbie addicts entertained.

[Sere Tuscumbia]

Well, you get yet another post from the "offending group". That makes . . . what? Five? Yeah, five.

Ok, so we spam. I admit that I've spammed, but tried to catch myself and stop. And now, I (selfishly) am sticking up for myself.

I introduce. Yes, I'm silly, and sometimes stupid with what I say, but it's my thing. I'm not going to be some stuck-up prick who only says "Welcome to the Otakuboards. Enjoy your stay." I want to be MYSELF when I introduce, because if I don't, then I'm stuck keeping up an image I don't want to. And unless you've noticed, [I]I[/I] DO try to correct people when I can. Two word posts and I'm onto them. And, ok, I forgot to get onto the person who had the poems, but I had thought that someone else would have gotten onto them. Guess that's my job, considering I just had to get onto someone for posting a one letter post.

I've noticed that a majority of the people posting against the NL are the ones who don't POST, just WATCH. No matter WHAT you say, I feel like I'm making a difference, not encouraging newbies to spam. You can believe what you want to. All I want to do is make a difference, and make some new people feel like they're a part of the community.

Take that away, and what do we got? Nothing.

*~*~~``

I would go into a further rant, but then you guys would be reading for about a day. And James would most likely ban me.

[Phantom]

[quote][i]originally posted by sere tuscumbia[/i]
I'm not going to be some stuck-up prick who only says "Welcome to the Otakuboards.[/quote]
So I am a 'stuck up prick' for not ALWAYS trying to be creative in my greetings? Grow up sere.

[quote][i]originaly posted by sere tuscumbia[/i]
And unless you've noticed, I DO try to correct people when I can.[/quote]
Sometimes yeah, helping those who arent familiar with our board's rules can often greatly benefit from you helping them. But if you catch some wrong spelling or somthing, and 'correct' somone for not dotting their i's or crossing their t's, than your really being the ignorant one. I dont know, I dont really watch how you correct people so I truely have no say in if you are arrogant or not, or if you need to look up the word 'arrogant', or if you need to learn the proper grammatical usage of the word 'prick'.

All in all, your dead wrong.

[quote][i]originally posted by sere tuscumbia[/i]
I've noticed that a majority of the people posting against the NL are the ones who don't POST, just WATCH.[/quote]
Well miss Serenity, looks like you need to read, watch, remember, and research before you decide to run your mouth. I for one am usually writing on the newbie forum, and picture forum. And I do beleive a most of the people who are against the newbie forum have read and saw otherwise they would not dislike its meaningless purpose. Gosh.

->MK

[Sara]

[size=1]::looks amused::

Calm down, guys. No need to get violent.

I think the best point here is that the place specified for new members to start out is the one forum where the rules don't quite apply.

[It would be amusing if there were a 'secret' forum for older members to goof off...heh.]

And well, yes. I watch more than I post. Because, frankly, y'all? It's a bit too weird in there for me. I don't see as how any new member could make sense of green bees and rolling pins and whatnot. I think it's funny, because I've seen the jokes evolve. But a new member just joined, and trying to make sense of viginity-stealing rubber duckies and people running from the NFP? I realize it's not quite meant to make sense...but maybe that's the point being put forth.

And I don't think you guys have to get defensive about it. We know you're just having fun. Mist and D_A and the rest used to do the same thing. Sheep and iron rods and the like. Before that, it was Justin, jc, ssj chic, and myself. [I don't think we were [i]quite[/i] as weird as y'all, but I may be a bit biased. :p]

I don't know. The whole situation might be completely different if there were a specific moderator there, to keep things from going too haywire. I don't know if it would quite work, seeing as how a completely new standard would have to be suddenly set and enforced, but perhaps it's worth a shot...if only as a trial period. Navi wasn't there long before she disappeared.[/size]

[Phantom]

Honestly, Sara has definate good points. I never had anythign against the forum. But the way I see it, is its almost DEFINATeLY going to be gone..not by my choice, but gone regardless. So if its gona be gone...the least we can do is make some use out of the space we 'might' be freeing up.

Nothing against Sere at all but she was completely knocking everyone without even reading (from the way she was writing). I really think Sara has a goood point.

[MathGuy2]

I agree with your (all of you) suggestions about the need to eliminate training newbies in spam, but the need to allow more experienced users to post meaningless conversations. I also like the MyOB suggestion.

So...I don't know how well this would work, but this is my idea:

My Otakuboards - UserCP front page, and locked rule-topics; see below

Otaku Lounge - same, but with following subforums:
- My Picture - same
- Political/Debate Forum - rather than putting these directly in Otaku Lounge
- Test/Spam Forum - place for testing posts and styles and having meaningless converations; users would be asked to delete their threads when they're done, if it's a test for something; posts don't count

Help Forum - ask for HTML, etc. help, computer problems. General PROBLEMS with or QUESTIONS about OB (how do I do a signature? etc.) as opposed to suggestions, would go there, not in this forum. This could go in the Art and Design superforum.

The My Otakuboards would include a feathue like subscribed threads, but that allows you to put more (threads and forums) and not get email notification; a PM box/buddy list; and a set of locked rule-threads. These could also include nice writeups of answers in the Help Forum. The URL my.otakuboards.com would redirect to this page. If you're really ambitious, you could add news and POP3 email checking, like My Yahoo!...maybe that's too ambitious. Or maybe it could just have a digest of TheOtaku's news, and maybe a link to the chatroom with your username already signed in.

New users would be redirected, upon signup, to My OtakuBoards. They would be given links to threads randomly picked (from anywhere but spamforum) so they could see how OB works. Hey...each individual Anime/Gaming forum could have it's own introduction stickythread/subforum, so rather than saying "Hi i'm new i like Yugioh" they could post more detailed introductions in the Yugioh forum. Also, their rules would have examples of good threads (introduction and others) and bad threads (What's your AIMSN? DO you like Pepsi?).

okay...I write too much when I see a keyboard...

EDIT: this is obvious, but I sign the petition. I haven't visited the Newbie Lounge much, but I haven't liked what I've seen.

[Semjaza]

Half these posts make it sound like some of you act totally different in the Newbie lounge just because "spammy" type stuff is allowed there.

I guess I don't understand the newbie lounge. If you want people to know you like Yu-Gi-Oh or Playstation, then go add to those forums.

I think there are way too many seperate sections at OB as it is (for example I'd combine all the gaming threads into one). I can understand the reasoning for the Newbie Lounge's existance. I just don't see why it cannot be like other boards, where people make their first impressions based on what they write in general... instead of a two sentence post saying they like anime and want friends, followed by 20 posts of people saying "read the rules or I'll bite you" or inside jokes lol.

Perhaps the best thing to do is just ignore its existance if you are not fond of it lol. That's basically what I do. I definately wouldn't mind seeing it go, but since I hardly go as it is... Who am I to say one way or the other.

I just don't really see how the newbie lounge leads to any sort of converation that is actually worth keeping around. At other boards I go to, the newbie lounge simply doesn't exist, there is no counterpart to it either. People can see if you have been here a short time based on the post counter under your name. If you want to say something to them, I don't see why you can't do so in your normal post as a sort of "P.S." type thing.

Why not just make a sticky in the Otaku Lounge where people can introduce themselves? It probably would be enough, and might not lead to so much "abuse," or whatever you would like to call it. Which is more or less what MathGuy2 has suggested.

[Guest SunRiZe]

The Newbie lounge is, like CWB siad, is a haven for facilitating SPAM and bringing the rest of the house down. I had a looksee some 6 months ago. after a month of membership , and all anyone was telling the newbies was, get this, to run away from sheep and iron rods! Like they're really going to know what you're on about (or what you're on, more to the point) lol. Useless banter like that would most probably scare newbies away, ather than welcome them, and make the whole board look like an iron rod obsessed hellhole.
I don't think that newbie lounge serves any real purpose. I never posted an intro there, and never felt an urge to do so either. I would most likely have been scared of being whacked by an iron rod lol.

These boards are not fun? Look at OBBII, that's hardly the idealisation of morbid, sadhappies stopping your fun.

Otakuboards is fun, and a happy place to be, otherwise I just wouldn't come here. I believe if you think otherwise, you've been somking too many tok'emons :p

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sara [/i]
[B][size=1]
[It would be amusing if there were a 'secret' forum for older members to goof off...heh.]
[/size][/B][/QUOTE]

you mean you've never heard of Secretspam Lounge? lol.

[Sara]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B] I just don't see why it cannot be like other boards, where people make their first impressions based on what they write in general... instead of a two sentence post saying they like anime and want friends..........[/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]Yeah, but let me tell you....I used to get a [i]lot[/i] of those threads in Digimon...where they really don't belong. It was kinda nice to be able to move them somewhere, in stead of just telling the new member: "This is spammy. Thise sort of topic isn't allowed. Read the rules so you know this." When you move a thread you can say hi, and just shunt it off to the right place....because it's not really nice to close a new member's thread without a reason, but moving it is easily done.

And even if the majority of members know how to deal with a thread in the wrong area, boy...some members can be really rude. "You better shape up or you'll get banned! Read the rules! Watch out or they'll get you with the modrod!!! SPAM!!!!!"

"...Oh, yeah, and welcome to the boards." Not that you'll [i]stay[/i] long after a greeting like [i]that[/i]..... [/SIZE]

[James]

[color=royalblue]The thing is, although posts don't count in the Newbie Lounge, let's look at the forum's history. If you flip back to its first page (its earliest page), you'll definitely notice that it was less "crazy".

Crazy White Boy brings up some important points with regard to this forum; though the posts don't count, it is a forum that must still abide by the rules of the site.

Also, think about what this forum has become. All this talk of members needing to "vent" is ridiculous. If they want to vent, why not do it somewhere else? OtakuBoards is not for "venting".

As CWB accurately pointed out, Otaku Lounge is a pretty laid back place. Of course I don't expect people to always be sophisticated and witty (many people who post there are [i]not[/i]), but by the same token, I do expect people to avoid spamming.

We originally rejected the idea of a "spam forum". But what would you call Newbie Lounge? You can put any pleasant spin on it that you like, but it's essentially become our "Spam Forum".

For the most part, I've been able to tolerate this forum. So whilst I might argue against its existence (and while I do see many problems with it that contradict the rest of the site), I'm somewhat happy to put up with it.

Having said that, this forum has become exactly what I [i]did not[/i] intend. A Spam Forum.

What I would really like members to do, is to come up with new ideas. What can we replace Newbie Lounge with? I know there is a way to balance our rules with something fun. I mean, hell...this entire board IS fun. Otherwise why would you post here? I mean, it annoys me when people say "members have to vent and let their hair down".

If discussing plushies in Otaku Lounge isn't "letting your hair down", then I don't know what is. [/color]

[Sara]

[size=1][b]These boards are not fun? Look at OBBII, that's hardly the idealisation of morbid, sadhappies stopping your fun.[/b]

Indeed, for the dozen people that get to post there. And frankly, it's the spammiest thng I've ever seen so many mods endorse... o0

[b]you mean you've never heard of Secretspam Lounge? lol. [/B]

Yeah, I have. Used to be called 'Staff'.....

[b]If discussing plushies in Otaku Lounge isn't "letting your hair down", then I don't know what is. [/b]

...discussing your favorite kind of sock, perhaps....[/size]

[James]

[color=royalblue]Exactly, Sara. ;)

At least with OBII, it gets deleted/closed when finished.[/color]

[Semjaza]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sara [/i]
[B][SIZE=1]And even if the majority of members know how to deal with a thread in the wrong area, boy...some members can be really rude. "You better shape up or you'll get banned! Read the rules! Watch out or they'll get you with the modrod!!! SPAM!!!!!"

"...Oh, yeah, and welcome to the boards." Not that you'll [i]stay[/i] long after a greeting like [i]that[/i]..... [/SIZE] [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree that that is a problem as well. As soon as someone messes up slightly, there are then people on his butt about it. The whole thread goes off course and everyone winds up fighting. I guess some people are on some secret crusade to make the boards a perfect place... Just seems to piss people off and scare new peolpe away lol.

I do get your point though. Being in the much slower gaming forums, you don't really come across these types of posts... So I have little experience with them.

I guess I don't see why there should be any sort of introcuction threads in the first place. At many of the boards I used to visit, people would be like "Hi, this is my first post, blah blah blah." And then they would actually add to the discussion that was already in place in that thread.

Why is that a problem here? I don't really understand that.

As for letting your hair down... Why don't you just post like that in the first place? There are plenty of people here who act themselves but still add to conversations. I don't think anyone here has ever asked people to be totally serious all the time lol. People make jokes in threads all the time.

[Sara]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B]I guess I don't see why there should be any sort of introcuction threads in the first place. At many of the boards I used to visit, people would be like "Hi, this is my first post, blah blah blah." And then they would actually add to the discussion that was already in place in that thread.

Why is that a problem here? I don't really understand that. [/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]Oh, you know what's [i]really[/i] great? When a new member posts a completely legitimate thread, worth some discussion....and just happens to mention, on one line, that's they're new. [i]And ever single person posting tells them that their thread should be in Intro[/i]. No answering the question, no contribution to the discussion, not even a friendly 'hello.' Just a bunch of people trying to play mod.

Drives me nuts.

But actually, I do get a lot of people who come in and just start posting. I always say hi. It's really kind of nice. [/SIZE]

[James]

[color=royalblue]What I find ironic is that some members accuse Mods of being overzealous, when infact, it is often those said members who behave like you've described.

And Semjaza is totally right -- we NEVER tell people to be "totally serious and intelligent" all the time. People [i]should[/i] let their hair down and have fun. But you can do that without being a total ninkumbutt. o_O;;[/color]

[Semjaza]

Well the maybe the problem isn't the Newbie Lounge... It's all the people who "play mod" as you put it. The ironic thing is that most of those reponses to the original "spam" are even more spammy. Not to single anyone out, but there was a thread in the FF section where the first 5 posts were about whether or not the thread should be moved. Not one of them even addressed the original question. I think things like that are even more stupid than something like Newbie Lounge.

I mostly notice that problem in the Art Forum, where people have gotten kind of nasty over such things. I think you were in one of those threads trying to sort it out.

I guess the more I read about the Newbie Lounge, the more I think it's just a necessary evil of sorts. Like I said before, I don't really understand it... But I am not so sure anymore that I'd like it to just go away. Getting rid of completely could lead to a lot of other problems... And Sara has kind of made me realize that heh.

[Sara]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B]Well the maybe the problem isn't the Newbie Lounge... It's all the people who "play mod" as you put it.

I mostly notice that problem in the Art Forum, where people have gotten kind of nasty over such things. I think you were in one of those threads trying to sort it out.

And Sara has kind of made me realize that heh. [/B][/QUOTE] [size=1]:: bows::

I don't know. I still think a trial run with a mod would be a good thing. But you'd have to find someone crazy enough to do it.

...and that person will [i]not[/i] be me.

If people were just civil to each other..... Oy. But then, that would solve a lot of prolems in the world, wouldn't it...

You know, it's one thing when, say, wrist cutter makes some remark about something. It's quite another when two people go at it, and people start taking sides. Can't we give ban warnings for that? [And by [i]we[/i] I mean, [i]you[/i].][/size]

[Guest SunRiZe]

The Newbie Lounge is also inadequately sorted, I believe that the picture forum should come up to lounge, as it isn't just newbies who post pictures, i believe i was well into my 100th post before i decided to post mine.
Go with James idea of a my otaku, but that sounds like a better name for "profile", seen as the profile area also deals with private messaging. O_o Something to think about anyway

[James]

[color=royalblue]Eh, I don't know anymore. lol

I think that perhaps the Newbie Lounge was more trouble than it's worth. Especially when I look at threads in there now...I start to regret ever making it.[/color]