Down with Newbie Lounge--The Petition.

[Sara]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SunRiZe [/i]
[B]The Newbie Lounge is also inadequately sorted, I believe that the picture forum should come up to lounge, as it isn't just newbies who post pictures, i believe i was well into my 100th post before i decided to post mine.[/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]Trust me. You were still a newbie.[/SIZE]

[Shy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sara [/i]
[B][SIZE=1]Trust me. You were still a newbie.[/SIZE] [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1]Newbie is not a post count, it is a state of mind.

Adding a mod in there would be too little, too late. The people who post there and want it to be kept do not realize that we are not posting in there for a reason. Most established members do not like to post in spammy topics. I know that I don't.

-Shy[/size]

Edit: Am I an established member yet? o,o"

[Sara]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shyguy [/i]
[B][size=1]Newbie is not a post count, it is a state of mind. [/B][/QUOTE] Yesh, I know. We've been over this before, the pair of us. And I agree. Thus, my comment.

And Shy....I should hope you are.[/SIZE]

[Phantom]

I think he just meant, not only newbies post their pictures...And some people post more than one picture..I posted a second thread just a while ago...670 posts or so. *almost dares Sara to call me a newbie, a slight grin on my face, hehe*

Anyway, the whole non mod, acting like mod situation..yeah, I see your point. I've done it a couple times myself, and once you say it, I gotta realize how arrogant it must be. But I've never went full force on it and only in really bad cases. Once I sorta steemed on "3l337" for doing some spamming..its not my job to, and yeah, sorry.

But ya...im kinda...I'm not really on either side of this debate..not like CWB or Mnemolth...I just wana see somthing productive come out of getting rid of the newbie lounge.

BTW: the picture forum creates A LOT of good open CLEAN non spammed discussion..and making posts not count there is kinda a bummer. Mainly because half the time its just people saying "oh your pretty!" and thats it...but the other half its a rather interesting topic. Take, the DEathknight All dolled up thread... or the Harlequin's picture thread... Just some more suggestions for James.

[Kinetic]

[color=darkblue]
I myself have "played mod," before and think it's completely foolish. I think now that you should mind your own business and leave their job to them. If they actually ask you to help or something, you can step in, but how often does that happen? :p

Anyway, one other think I see in Newbie Lounge that pretty much seems useless are the threads where someone notes that they are leaving for, oh say 4 days or something. I mean, that just seems like a waste of space (no offense, yet again, just using you as an example, if you know who you are).
[/color]

[Mnemolth]

Clown: *walks up to a guy in a business suit* What's with the get up?

Businessman: Oh, I want to be serious.

Clown: Hmm....*ponders for a moment*....you know....you can [i]still[/i] be serious in a clown suit. Its a free world in here you know. We've got all kinds of clowns. You can be whatever you want to be.

Businessman: But I [i]want[/i] to wear a business suit now and then. Makes me feel serious and all.

Clown: Sure. *nods in agreement* I understand. You can [i]want[/i] to wear a business suit. *proceeeds to strip the Businessman and put on him a clown costume, a red nose and a few hundred layers of make-up* You can do that while you're in a clown suit.

Businessman: *whimpers* But....but ...I want to look serious and be serious.

Clown: *glances around the room at all the other clowns* Just because you're wearing a clown suit doesn't mean you can't be serious! *dead pan serious face* Just ask anyone here. *gestures at all the clowns, who respond by nodding somberly in their big wig hair, red nose, face make-up, frumpy costume, and big floppy shoes*

Businessman: *meekly* ok.

[James]

[color=royalblue]And that's exactly what I'm saying. Why are you painting me as the guy in the business suit? lol

I'm saying that you CAN have fun and you CAN joke, without being utterly spammy about it. It's not rocket science.[/color]

[Deedlit]

[color=009966][b]Even though I do post in the newbie lounge every now and then, I admit that it is getting a bit sloppy there. But please don't delete the Pictures Forum. It doesn't resemble the quality of the Newbie Lounge in the least. As for DK all Dolled up.....*covers Mike's mouth* Shh! He's not supposed to know about that!

I think the My Otaku is a great idea. :) It'll help all the newbies with any questions they might have so we won't have to have people asking "How do I do this?" or "What is that?" Although if they would just read the Sticky that Navi posted in the Newbie Lounge, most of their questions would probably be answered already.[/color][/b]

[Charles]

I also feel that the "My Otaku" is a good idea, although it isn't quite as attactive as Otakat Lounge. ^^

The biggest strike against the Newbie Lounge, is very apparent when most of it's supporters are using it's spammy nature in their argument, lol. I don't really like being compared to a business man either. I've always tried to maintain some sense of humor in my posts, signatures and avatars.

The funny aspect is, that most replies in Newbie Lounge are [U]normal[/U] members stressing the rules instead of getting to know the individual better or posting follow-up questions. Forgive me if I'm being too serious for your tastes now, but I don't drench my posts in humor when I'm trying to accomplish something.

The "My Otaku" forum could be very useful as an archive of sorts. There are so many possiblities that could impact the boards positively in putting it up. In fact, it could help clear confusion with things such as favorite topics or storing old events. I remember that there was talk of doing something like "Ask Otaku" on the boards before. So, it can still provide fun, but while doing so, it could actually [I]help[/I] people.

[James]

[color=royalblue]Exactly. It's very cheap to paint us like "serious businessmen", when clearly we're not like that. We're being serious now, but only because we're putting forward ideas.

But anyone who views your or my topics...or who sees us post regularly will know that we certainly aren't against humor. Humor isn't the issue. Spam is the issue. lol

Anyway, I do believe that the My Otaku forum would be very useful. It would bring more benefits than Newbie Lounge ever could. Think about it -- it'd be a page of easy-access resources for all members. You wouldn't ever have to look at a confusing off-boards FAQ or something else like that. Everything would be there and everything would be easily-updatable if something changes.

I think that bringing Newbie Lounge into question is legitimate, because I'm doing the same with a number of other forums. There are at least three forums (besides Newbie Lounge), which I will be cutting if they don't pick up soon. I'm also thinking about any changes that need to be made to the boards as v6 progresses. So certainly...now's the time to put some constructive forum ideas on the table.[/color]

[Kinetic]

[color=darkblue]
And the great thing about My Otaku is that if another question ever arises, it will be easily updatable.

I've seen something sort of like this at another board where they have the help forum and it has the FAQ, bugs and their fixes (it's a forum where they give you a board like EZBoard but much better), and many other things that would be helpful to new members.
[/color]

[Mike]

I like the My Otaku idea a lot. Here's how I see it...

you go in, and you have sub-forums...

Announcements

Updates/News

FAQS/TAGS

and then one topic in that main part:

Questions

There everyone can post questions about the entire board, something that may have been bugging them. That's just my idea...

[Semjaza]

Business suit? lol

Yes, we all know that James is "The Man." He's always keeping us down.

My Otaku seems like a decent idea... Although I'm going to miss the nonexistant game thingy.

[Mnemolth]

I swear I must be one of the most misunderstood people on here. :D

[b]If[/b] any of you have the time and the inclination, may I [b]please[/b] ask you to re-read my last post. No, not this one! The one about the clowns and the businessman. :p

I would say more, but it would seem the more I say the more confused people get. :D

PS: James, you do realise you've just proved my point don't you? *sardonic smile on his wry lips* Nevermind. *smirks* I am a newbie after all so its probably not my place to gloat. :)

[EDIT] Sorry if this post and the Clown and Businessman one is overly offensive to anyone here. Please PM me if you feel I've exceeded my liberties. [/EDIT]

[James]

[color=royalblue]How have I proved your post? If anything, your own actions tend to contract that post.

You yourself frequently post in "serious" topics. And I never see you letting your hair down in the Newbie Lounge.

My point is, your analogy was most dissappointing and unrealistic. It's a cheap shot.

I frequently get made out to be some ogre who is trying to crush everyone's fun, but that's not the case. Just look at the jump the boards took from v5 to v6 -- I have tried to the best of my ability to create relevant, fun forums for everyone. If anything, I've tried to make this place more fun over time. So any suggestion that I've been doing the opposite is pretty silly.

All you have to do is read CWB's eloquently written posts on this subject. How can we have rules on this site when we openly disregard them in one forum?

The thing is (and I think most will agree, even if they like the Newbie Lounge forum), something needs to be done about it. Either it needs a Moderator to keep it on topic...or it needs to be gone altogether and we need to find an alternative.

I'm not against the idea of a welcoming thread or something similar...and right now I'm not particularly saying that either side is right or wrong. I understand people's reasons for wanting to keep the forum in place.

What I'm asking is that the community at OtakuBoards think up a way of addressing this subject. The My Otaku forum might be added anyway, if only because I feel there is a need for it.

But I'm always open to suggestions. Any thought that your suggestion or opinion will get you banned (Sere Tuscumbia) is not only untrue, but I find it personally offensive. I have never [i]ever[/i] blocked someone out just because of their opinion. I have always exercised my own power in a legitimate way. The simple fact is, I [i]do[/i] disagree with people. And if I disagree passionately, people somehow think that I'm going to ban them or something. That's not the case and it never will be; I don't have any problem with allowing passionate debate on the forums, as I've said many times.

And that is why your earlier analogy was most unwelcome. At least try to contribute something meaningful, rather than making a mockery of what we're discussing.[/color]

[Lady Asphyxia]

[color=darkred]Okay, now it's time for my non-ranting "I've looked at most viewpoints" post.

I've read the posts as far back as they go. And you're right. They are more crazy now-a-days. Most of the introductions are pretty much the same. But the replies aren't.[/color]

[color=darkred][u]Oldest to Newest[/u][/color]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Gally[/i]

[b]Hi...I'm bored...so I'm here. Yay.[/b][/quote]



[quote][i]Originally posted by PiccolosGirl[/i]

[b] Hi! I'm new and I just need someont to type to and have a conversation with. [/b][/quote]


[color=darkred][u]Replies to Gally[/u][/color]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Jeff[/i]

[b]hey nice girl[/b][/quote]


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Treble[/i]

[b]Hey Gally and welcome to Otakuboards if ya bored Otakubooards will make you happy.[/b][/QUOTE]

[u]Replies to PiccolosGirl[/u]

[quote][i]Originially posted by Lalaith Ril[/i]

[b]Hey whats up! Hope you enjoy your stay! Please follow the rules! If you need help with the rules you can PM SERE TUSCUMBIA, and if you want some insane person to talk to you can PM me! (PM means Private Message by the way) If you plan on staying here I must warn you that many people are like me, insane.

Pleaing Insanity,
Bryan

P.S: Beware of Lady A...she's scary!

P.S.S: Ha I beat everyone to here![/b][/quote]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Circeus[/i]

[b]A little messed up? That's an euphemism...

For future reference, I doubt you'll get one welcome even remotely sane.

Welcome here, have a nice stay around. Need anything? PM the mods! Need help? PM the N.F.P.!

Beware the bewares, and please look out for funny smelling goudas![/b][/quote]


[quote][i]Originally posted by Lady Asphyxia[/i]

[b][color=darkred]*pokes her tongue out at Bryan* Meenie! I am not scary! *fwaps you over the hea with the Rolling Pin of Justice*

The N.F.P Circeus is talking about is the Newbie Forum Patrol...Sere Tuscumbia and myself. And he's right. PM me if you need help, obey the rules, and don't spam, or I'll fwap you over the head with the Rolling Pin of Justice!

*hands you a green bee*[/b][/color][/quote]

[color=darkred]Yes, they have changed. As for the moderating idea, personally, I think that would be the most agreeable to the people who frequent the Newbie Lounge. Personally, I'd [i]love[/i] to be the mod of that place, however, seeing as I'm a Junior Member, I doubt that will happen. If you find someone willing to Moderate that place, fine. It will mean a few adjustments for us, but we're willing to accept it.

I suppose you can change it. I can see the merits in that idea, too. I will be sad to lose the Newbie Forum, though, if it comes to that....which, at the moment, look like what's going to happen. [/color]

[Desbreko]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sara [/i]
[B][size=1]Before that, it was Justin, jc, ssj chic, and myself. [I don't think we were [i]quite[/i] as weird as y'all, but I may be a bit biased. :p][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]
[color=indigo]Yep, back in the good ol' days of v3 and v4... And you're right, it wasn't as crazy/spammy back then. It was kinda crazy, but not so much that it was really spammy.

Actually, come to think of it, I think we may actually have started this whole thing in the intro forum... People saw us welcoming people in humorous ways, and took it a little too far. ...Oops. :cross: :D

Anymore, I barely ever post in the Newbie Lounge, simply because it has gotten too spammy for my taste. I agree with CWB, most people just seem to post the same thing over and over and over again. Back when I posted in there regularly, I would always try and post something different each time, so as not to be repetitive.

I also agree that it should either be taken down, or someone should be a mod in the forum, and "crack down" on the spam. And when I say that, I don't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to have a little fun when welcoming people, I mean they shouldn't be allowed to post spammy welcome posts that consist of nothing but "Welcome, read the rules, and watch out for so and so."[/color]

[color=seagreen]Edit:
You know, if I had about an hour more free time every day, [i]I[/i] would be going through the Newbie Lounge and modding in there... There just aren't enough hours in the day... *sigh*[/color]

[color=indigo]As for ideas on things to replace the forum, should it be taken down, I have one that kind of combines the "My Otaku" idea, with a few of my own ideas. I'd put in an "Otaku Archive" forum, which could have the FAQ, rules, and stuff that would go in a My Otaku forum, and also have a sub-forum for the greatest threads and RPGs on OB. (They would be old, inactive threads, of course, which no one posts in anymore). That way, new members could come into the Otaku Archive forum, read the rules, FAQ, get info on various vB tags and such, and also take a look at examples of some of the best threads OB has to offer, which would serve as examples of high post quality and how to post intelligently, whereas the main part of the forum would tell what not to do, and how to do things. They'd get help on [i]how[/i] to post, be shown [i]what[/i] to post, and what [i]not[/i] to post, all in one, concentrated area.

So, anyway, those are my thoughts. If you want to argue with me, go ahead, I don't care, and I probably won't end up reading the arguements anyway. These are just my oppinions. :p[/color]

[Rain]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Asphyxia[/i]
[b]Personally, I'd love to be the mod of that place[/b][/QUOTE]

[color=blue]Rae, you'd have quite a bit of competition for mod of that place:p

Ok, I'll get serious now...
I am one of the regular posters in the NL, and I do agree that it does get spammy. Sorry.
I'm not going to fight about it, it's your decision if it goes or not.
I personally think you should try the mod idea, and if that doesn't work, get rid of it altogether.

The more I read about the 'My Otaku' idea, the better it sounds. it would be a good place for Newbies. It would cover all the stuff we don't get around to telling them.[/color]

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Desbreko [/i]
[B][color=indigo]As for ideas on things to replace the forum, should it be taken down, I have one that kind of combines the "My Otaku" idea, with a few of my own ideas. I'd put in an "Otaku Archive" forum, which could have the FAQ, rules, and stuff that would go in a My Otaku forum, and also have a sub-forum for the greatest threads and RPGs on OB. (They would be old, inactive threads, of course, which no one posts in anymore). That way, new members could come into the Otaku Archive forum, read the rules, FAQ, get info on various vB tags and such, and also take a look at examples of some of the best threads OB has to offer, which would serve as examples of high post quality and how to post intelligently, whereas the main part of the forum would tell what not to do, and how to do things. They'd get help on [i]how[/i] to post, be shown [i]what[/i] to post, and what [i]not[/i] to post, all in one, concentrated area.
[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry for the long quote, but it basically sums up what I meant, [I]exactly[/I] by an archive forum. A lot of people talk about MeteoCity as being a great rpg. With an archive, it would be easy to point members, who are having difficulties creating good games, to that thread.

Also, small things, such as an acceptable and unacceptable favorite topic could be combined and placed in that forum, with some slight editing, picking apart the various parts of the post, showing what is and isn't acceptable. The same could be done for other topics. It would just be so much easier actually pointing people towards examples.

Plus, we can store old editions of Otaku Awards and examples of closed topics, or nostalgic threads. It would be sort of like an Otaku Attic, lol. I thought that that idea was only attractive in my twisted mind, so it's glad to see that someone else shares it.

[Phantom]

[quote][i]originaly posted by deedlit[/i]
As for DK all Dolled up.....*covers Mike's mouth* Shh! He's not supposed to know about that![/quote]HEHE WHOOPS!! :)

[quote][i]originaly posted by lady a[/i]
Personally, I'd love to be the mod of that place, however, seeing as I'm a Junior Member, I doubt that will happen.[/quote][quote][i]originaly posted by rain[/i]Rae, you'd have quite a bit of competition for mod of that place[/quote]Asking or suggesting, (at least as to what I am familiar with in the past) does not usually help for a seat as a Moderator.

Also, I dont beleive its ALL about your member status, though yes, I bet it is a rather influencial(sp?) part of when James appoints Moderators.

[Rain]

[color=blue]I wasn't asking or suggesting that i should be mod, i was merely having a joke with Rae.

Anyway, CWB I like that idea about having examples of good or bad posts. And having all the old Otaku Awards in there (you could stick OBBII in there when it's done).[/color]

[Phantom]

James? Are we removing the newbie lounge or giving it a moderator and trial period to see if the post quality can be increased somewhat?

We know your stance on this situation and your overall outlook, but we as of yet still have no true decision. In order to supply you with more idea's, I'de like to know exactly what the game plan so far is, whats going to happen so we can offer suggestions that would coresspond. Thnx

[James]

[color=royalblue]Member status has absolute zero meaning to me when it comes to appointing Moderators. ;)

I haven't come to a decision on the issue, but CWB/Desbreko's expansion of the My Otaku idea is a good one. I like it very much. ;)[/color]

[Phantom]

URRGG hehe... you left me with the same dilema, except that now I know where your decision for this will be pointed in the end. sooooooooo I'm gona offer points and suggestions for either way you decide. Point form will be a lot easier to sum up my views on this.

[b]Get a Mod, Keep for trial:[/b]

- Don?t make the mod someone who rarely posts in the NL.
- When choosing mod, try to make it someone who greets, but greets with some enthusiasm. Doesn?t always correct people, maybe choose someone who replies in the most ideal fashion. (ie: helpful, informative, yet still makes sure the newbie doesn?t think spamming is OK).

- Try re-organizing the whole NL even if you keep it. Like, move the Picture sub forum someplace else. Not only newbies post pictures.

- On an extension of the previous suggestion, help the newbies know where to post what, like an Introduction sticky thread or sub forum, (I like the idea of sticky thread. Semjaza had a really good point; it would filter out a tonne of useless threads, and essentially keep our boards happier)

Also, on account to Mnemolth, who isn't all that DEAD wrong as you say. And his analogy was far from wrong. He was absolutely not insinuating that you were a business man and that he was a clown. Just that you are being serious about this. Which you should, and that?s fine by me, this is a serious discussion. I think he was trying to say that there should be some place to not feel that you are forced to follow a protocol of some sort. Sure there is very little in words of protocol in the Otaku Lounge, but he is, I guess stating that there should be a place without a distinct, expected type of post quality.

So what I am saying is if you decide to keep the NL on trial, than maybe put some idea into incorporating some sort of thread that allows members to just plain old goof off, with some degree of moderation of course, that is what the moderator would be for, to balance off the degree of freedom with a degree of governing force.

[b]Making something along the lines of ?My Otaku?[/b] [i]I support this.[/i]

-Whatever the name of the forum may be, it should still be re-arranged. At least something that might be easier to navigate. A picture forum, a help forum, a random tutorial forum, a question forum (which would make the suggestions and feedback forum serve its purpose far better by eliminating questions. Though it specifies that you can go there to ask questions, simply because there is no other place.)

-Assign moderation to the forums, respectively, to keep it less congested, at least for the beginning of the change. I would hope CWB would be interested in applying to this job; it was his initiative to remove the NL in the first place.

-Agreeing with Mathguy, a testing forum would be REALLY helpful?Especially for newbies, who have yet to master the tags, also it would be good for people who are just trying out a new technique in their posting strategy, it would also serve for a good feedback, if someone makes a thread, asking for some suggestions on how to fix their formatting problem. All of these posts would be deleted once completed anyway?etc?the list can go on for uses of a testing forum, or thread for that matter.

-Along the lines of bringing back old sections. (I was not here for the upbringing of them so I would not know.) Good idea, along with the awards section, it would truly make people try harder in their overall community outlook, it would make everyone just be more conscientious. Sure it would instantly attract the usual brownies who want to be the first to get the awards?heh but if James and other global ops of the boards decide to choose people randomly out of the blue just for how they act, it would be pretty fair.

-Anyway, there is one aspect of the ?My Otaku?, that would be good to consider. A chat room that could be integrated into the boards, only in the My Otaku section THUS giving Mnemolth a way to ?let his hair down?. Because in a chat room, sure there is some common sense protocol but other than that, there is almost no rules based on post quality. Its mostly writing on the fly, not all that exponentially important. Also, there will have to be channel ops in the chat room at all time to moderate, but that is what will keep it clean, and productive.

->MK

[James]

[color=royalblue]

Several points here.

1) We are not, I repeat not, having a testing forum. We had one once and it was a spam fest. There is no need for a testing forum -- all banners and avatars are retroactive; they appear in all your old posts. Therefore a test forum is pointless.

2) My Otaku would be a locked forum. It would not required moderation by default -- nobody would be able to post inside it, unless it had a postable sub forum (Newbie Lounge or Your Picture).

3) There would be no need to "bring back" old events. Event threads will not be deleted, but merely closed. They will remain in the Event Arena forum.

4) Mnemolth's analogy was [i]utterly[/i] incorrect. We are ALL discussing this issue seriously within this forum...but he was implying that in general, I was not open to being "free and easy", so to speak. And that couldn't be further from the truth. If anything, Mnemolth tends to be more a "businessman" than I ever am. lol

I'm actually more like the Clown; I accept people's sense of wanting humor and silliness...it's fine by me. As long as they abide by the site's basic and easy-to-follow rules...I don't mind. [/color]