Down with Newbie Lounge--The Petition.

[Phantom]

I refuse to think of this as a SIDED argument. This is generaly a coaliation of various members, new and old, trying to make this a better place.

Mnemolth has put forth so many basic points that you cant just pass off and say he is wrong, like I know you all will...

Sure there is a place that some people dont like, but totaly anhialating(sp?) it might not really do all that much.

Either way, I'm going to accept whatever happens, at least I tried to offer my say :).

[Semjaza]

CWB has also put out some good, rather basic points. People are just going to go with whoever they agree with. We all know that nearly all of the people who posted in here already had their mind set one way or the other.

I like and don't like the Newbie Lounge. There are equally good arguments for both sides (although I feel most of the good "for" stuff was from Sara; a lot of the good "against" points have been from a lot of random people). I'm somewhat on the fence about the whole thing still.

I guess the Newbie Lounge is good in theory, but not when it's actually in use. That's my opinion based on all the points here at least.

[Valen]

How about this... just get rid of the n00b lounge and put an announcement forum where members post things like special events, announcements, etc... since not everyone uses the Calendar... just an idea...

[James]

[color=royalblue]Semjaza is right. I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't, basically.

But in the end, I'll do what's best for the boards.

As for Mnemolth -- I'm not rejecting his arguments. But the thing is, he's seeing this in the wrong light. Not only do his posts sound more like a passionate political speech (even though this is just some anime board on the Internet -- get over it), he does make some points.

However, I believe those points to be invalid. His post's sub message is basically "you're hiding behind rules to push people around and shut them up, don't do it". Unfortunately, that is completely incorrect.

Anyone, no matter what their opinion, is going to have a tough time defending Newbie Lounge. Just [i]look[/i] at the posts contained within. Most of them are spam. They are mostly [i]objectively[/i] spam. This isn't some subjective rant of my own -- just look at our rules and out site practices and then look at that place. Anyone with two atoms of brain tissue to rub together can make the connection.

Otaku Lounge allows for plenty of off-topic and humorous threads. I don't see why this evades some members. Just look through that forum before you post; there are plenty of light-hearted threads inside. That is why I reject the idea that Newbie Lounge is a place where venting is somehow needed.

I also reject the idea that I'm not tolerant or that I'm using the rules to block something legitimate. This could not be any further from the truth. The rules [i]do[/i] provide guidelines in which we can all have fun, without getting too spammy or idiotic. But I honestly don't see how anyone can look at Newbie Lounge and say that it abides by any of the set rules that we have established. It just doesn't, no matter what your feelings about it are. How on Earth can we be expected to adhere to the rules in [i]every other forum[/i] and [i]not[/i] Newbie Lounge? Not only is that contradictory to our rules, but it makes the entire staff look like a bunch of hypocrites.

Perhaps most importantly, Newbie Lounge is what most newbies first see. If they see wave after wave of useless, spammy posts, what impression do they come away with? They come away with the impression that this kind of posting is fine for the rest of the boards. And more often than not, if they follow that route, they will find themselves in trouble somewhere along the line. Either that, or their behavior will become an annoyance to everyone else. And that's the whole point -- keeping the standard of quality on the boards very high, so that these annoyances do not occur.

By advocating the Newbie Lounge, people are encouraging the idea of lower post quality in general. In truth, it's impossible to have your cake and eat it too. If we want to encourage high post quality, regardless of humor or subject, we're going to have to be consistent.

Furthermore, Mnemolth may say that we are misunderstanding his analogy. But his most recent post demonstrates a 100% lack of understanding when it comes to this site's policies and practices. Yes, Mnemolth, perhaps your "newness" to these forums [i]does[/i] disqualify you from making informed comment.

You make clear and obvious reference to me using rules to block out something that I can't appreciate or understand. That is absolutely untrue. I [i]do[/i] understand the kind of posts that occur in Newbie Lounge. And throughout this site's very long history, these are the kind of posts that we've always discouraged.

In essence, you are behaving as though we are some kind of Government oppressing its people. And that's silly. You yourself are taking the situation incredibly seriously, even though you are attempting to say that I should somehow lighten up.

In some ways, you are correct when you say that people can "have fun as long as they do it our way". This site is not the public domain -- it is privately owned. And when people join, we have requirements. We have requirements for our community, just as other sites have unique requirements for their own. We exercise absolute tolerance here; however, we do expect [i]everything[/i] to come under the framework of our rules. I certainly understand people's reasons for wanting the Newbie Lounge to exist, but if the forum is becoming spam-infested and contradicting [i]everything[/i] our entire site has ever stood for, why keep it? Just so that I can satisfy your ego and make you feel as though you've somehow "freed the masses"? Come on. Let's take this for what it is, shall we? This is a forum in which the ownership decides what it requires of its members.

And 99% of members accept that reality. That is why they are here. If they didn't enjoy this place, they wouldn't be here. And if we end up somehow driving people away because of our rules, so be it. For every ten people that we drive away, we will attract another 20 who want a high quality posting environment.

This is not to say that I don't value our membership; I do. But I resent the idea that someone can breeze in and ignore this site's years of established history. In fact, this site's activity has significantly increased as a [i]direct result[/i] of our pursuit of higher quality posting. Our own results suggest that most people are sick and tired of the spam infested mainstream forums. And that is partly why OtakuBoards has become a place of high quality RPGs, [i]intelligently[/i] humorous/silly discussions and whatever else.

Honestly, it is both naive and rude to suggest that we are oppressing people here, when you yourself have not seen the evolution of our community over time. This is why older members like Crazy White Boy can discuss this subject with some sense of reasoning and relative experience -- and it is why those who have been here for any significant period of time will, for the most part, support his viewpoint. They know how this forum works and how it has always worked. And that's why they like it.

You yourself have participated primarily in non-humorous threads yourself. And frankly, unless you're blind, you can see the myriad of humorous and off the wall threads in Otaku Lounge and see that it [i]is[/i] highly possible to have something funny or silly...without making it a totally stupid, off topic spamfest. As long as the English is okay and people remain on-topic, we have very rarely objected to silly/humorous threads. Perhaps you should do more research before you step in and attempt to classify all that is wrong with this site, even though you clearly have very little understanding of its history and its general culture.

I could go on forever. But I don't think I need to. It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that we aren't fair to members. As I always say, if people are overly dissatisfied, let them find another forum. If we have a flood of members leaving, then that is something I will have to take responsibility for. But my track record and the history of this site suggests otherwise.

In any case, I don't believe that Mnemolth has provided a legitimate argument to keep Newbie Lounge. Why? Because on every level, he has failed to grasp what our site is about. Of course, it's fair to disagree and whatnot. But the reasons Mnemolth cites are utterly flawed. And I'm sure that older members can read his posts and understand why, though he may say that we don't understand what he's saying, he too has jumped in the deep end, with little or no understanding of this site's history (in which, I might add, his presence represents merely the blink of an eyelid).

Remember, let's not take this too seriously. This isn't World War II, it's an anime forum. One of thousands. Ultimately, I will decide what forums stay or go, as I have always done. And that is exactly why OtakuBoards is as it is now -- and it's why it has become more popular over time. The great thing is, for the most part, we can debate and discuss ideas here...whilst also understanding that these boards are the property of its owners and that at the end of the day, the ownership will do what is thinks is necessary. I think the phrase "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" is most appropriate here. :)[/color]

EDIT: And yes, Mnemolth...I do understand that the tone of most of the posts in Newbie Lounge is positive, upbeat and friendly. But clearly, that's not what I'm arguing against. It's possible to be all of those things without compromising the site's rules or post quality. Even your banner is right off the mark -- are you saying I don't support friendliness? So friendliness counts even if you're spamming? Nuh uh. If you think it does, you shouldn't be here in the first place.

Anyway, just a note to everyone: I'm going to read over these posts again later this weekend before I make a decision. Believe me, I do appreciate the pro and con arguments. Ultimately, make no mistake that I [i]will[/i] do what is in the site's best interest. The reason I'm taking up this issue personally is because the site will be undergoing a mild upgrade soon, where non-performing forums will be cut and some things will be added. During that time, the site may be down (but probably only for a couple of hours, so it's nothing to worry about). I appreciate everyone's opinion on the issue and you can be sure that all arguments will be looked at several times before any decision is made. Thanks to everyone for participating. :)

[Phantom]

Hehe...over 100 posts have been posted in this particular thread...Heh. From the first time you posted James, I just knew what the outcome of the NL debate would be. I dont really mind if we change, at all not one bit nuh-uh.. hehe its cool.

But, with all due respect...You would be doing what you want regardless of if the NL supporter's posted with great suggestions to keep it. Anyway...you know what would have stirred less argument and would probably have been more productive if...CWB just PM'd you, suggeting replacing the NL with somthing more efficient and productive. Than you send out a pm to all the important mods and stuff, because of course their 'time and experiance' here will give a general concurrence, and than... make a thread in here, once all the staff has decided to remove the NL...asking US ...the Members, what kind of things we would like to replace the NL with.

That way you could just state:

"Yes the NL is going, there is nothign you can do to stop it, so lets make somthing productive out of it... come on :):):):)"

hehe...see my point? woulda been much much more simpler.

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]True, Mystic's. It would have been a lot easier, but if he had done that, then people would be screaming at James, "Why didn't you allow some debate for that idea?"

Ultimately, youare correct, though. We all know his decision for this. I know that the forum must go. We all know. Logic proves so.

And yes, I am aware that I have posted saying NOT to let the forum go. My logical mind tells me to let it go. I rarely visit it, and heck, [i]I[/i] didn't even post an introduction. However, there's just something in the very back of my mind that's tugging at my brain, and it won't let the forum go. It just won't. I think the reasoning is something that has to do with psychology, but I haven't a clue what that reasoning is.

I will be sticking to my illogical opinion until the forum goes down. :)[/color]

[Charles]

I disagree with the notion that I should have simply pmed James regarding the subject, I disagree that this has become some sort of thread in which the big guy kicks around the little guy, and I wish to make it clear that neither I, nor other staff in this thread are being arrogant.

I don't believe that members become any less ordinary as their titles change and I don't look down on anyone on the basis of registration date. To my knowledge, not many staff members do. Why do you think we have a suggestions forum in the first place? [I]Everyone's[/I] feedback is appreciated and everyone's opinion is valued. That's why I have to frown at the view that only staff opinion matters. Sure, James has the final say, as he stated, but that doesn't mean that members both new and old, can't shape the boards. The Cowboy Beebop forum was added due to member request. I mean, even manual name changes went into affect because members desired it.

[B][Quote]So when you look at the Newbie Lounge, and all you see is spam, I see something else. I see friendliness. I see enthusiasm. I see people trying to help their community and have a little fun while doing it. I see charm, the charm that comes from the silly and the ridiculous. I see people interacting with one another, and having a grand old time. And I see that as being perfectly in sync with the rules.[/B][/Quote]

It's true that there is friendliness in the Newbie Lounge. But, the very qualities that you mentioned are apparent in other forums as well. I see friendliness on much of the boards. I see people trying to help the community. These boards are, in fact, filled with charm. That's why I stayed here. I'm only registered at this board, and one more. There was no Introduction forum when I registered, and I saw people interacting with one another, having a grand old time. I see it on OB now. As a matter of fact, I see interaction among members right now, in this very thread. There was no topic posted solely in Staff Forum about this issue. James openly [I]asked[/I] for pubic member feedback regarding suggestions for new forums.

Alas, I don't see true interaction in the Newbie Lounge. People type in programmed responses.

I hate to put anyone on the spot, so I won't mention any names, but here are two separate posts, in two separate (but recent) threads from that forum:

[B][Quote]EDIT - Okay, I've been a little moody lately. Changing the post.

Welcome! *hands you a green bee* Obey the rules, don't spam, and PM me if you need help. Please enjoy your stay here![/B][/Quote]

[B][Quote]EDIT - If you say that post, I apologise. I have been rather moody lately.

Welcome! *hands you a green bee* Please obey the rules, and feel free to PM me if you need help. Remember, always have fun! [/B][/Quote]

Look at that. How is that pure interaction? I feel that people can give new members a warm reception just by commenting on their posts in other forums, and showing them that their opinion matters. The satisfaction is much greater received when they see that they are being taken seriously in the community, and that their opinions are respected. They make friends among others by being themselves. No one is being themselves in Newbie Lounge by posting that nonsense. If they did that in their real lives, in public, they would be committed in an institution.

[B][Quote]I find it sad that people fail to understand that being 'articulate' does not make you right, and being 'intelligent' is not everything. And for those looking back at me with daggers of irony in their eyes, they should be looking more closely at me, because they obviously have not looked at me close enough in order to have formulated the opinions of me that they have.[/B][/Quote]

I don't quite understand what you mean. This thread was never created with lofty language, and poetic justice. Your post contains more of that than anything, lol. I cited specific faults in the forum, and delivered hard-hitting facts. I didn't use rhetoric or dance around the issue.

[B]Fact[/B]: The Newbie Lounge Generates Spam. It has fallen [I]far[/I] behind other forums in terms of quality.

[B]Fact[/B]: The Newbie Lounge places a bad impression on new members. It influences poor posting habits.

[B]Fact[/B]: We learn nothing of the member in their first post, that can't be learned from their profile, signature or posting habits. Why do you think so many questions are formed in Otaku Lounge regarding real names, and locations? Yes, members are uncomfortable posting it initially. So, what's the point of the forum? They can post the same "Hi, I'm new" comment, at the start of their first post in any other forum.

[B]Fact[/B]: People are free to be themselves in other forums. I mean, why not? As stated, they are [I]not[/I] being themselves in Newbie Lounge.

[B]Fact[/B]: These are recreational boards. [I]All[/I] the forums are recreationally based.

I know, that that sounds like a political ad, but, I can't outline it anymore clearly.

I'm done justifying my reasoning. Everyone should understand it by now. If they disagree, then fine, I respect that. I was a member on this board for nine months before joining the staffing team. In that time, I posted numerous joke topics in Otaku Lounge. I even created a "Crazy White Boy's archive of Useless Crap-ola." So, just don't patronize me, by painting me out to be someone who's afraid to let loose.

As I said, I won't ramble on any longer. The most I'll do is try to come up with reasonable suggestions.

[wrist cutter]

Holy crap, I can't believe the lengths of some of these posts. It's a newbie forum for goodness sakes.

Personally, I don't think anyone would be severely heartbroken if you just abolished it (though keep the picture forum). I mean... yeesh, it's not that big deal one way or another. It'd clear up some bandwidth anyway. So I say GO FOR IT!

Of course, a better way to solve the solution is to go on a massive banning campaign. Ban every member who types with a "u" instead of "you", who uses slang normally rather than as a humor device, who has poor grammar (mainly run-on sentences and punctuation issues), and who even comes close to breaking the rules... which includes me I guess, but oh well.

That would solve the problem. You wouldn't have to delete any forums and the post quality would dramatically increase, as everyone who fits into the above categories doesn't really have much of a worthwhile opinion anyway.

[Guest SunRiZe]

This could be the first Otakuboards world war lol.

Seriously, there is always going to be a for and against, in this situation, I would hate to be james right now, as he said, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't

You have to realise however that Newbie Lounge may be a place to interact and have fun, but so do the other forums, Fun discussion is allowed, if anything i can say that serious threads are cracked down on more (take my example of my 'end times' thread a while back)

There is no justification in calling Otakuboards not fun, hell, the only reason i come here is for fun. Just look at James example of the plushies thread. Otaku Big brother 2, even for us outside the bb house is still fun to read (btw, i saw a reply to post as I was browsing, thought of infiltrating and invading the house and stealing a prcious plushie and chainsaw of damnation, thought I would possibly get banned if i did :p )

[Transtic Nerve]

I think some of you are making nothing into something way more than it should be. I really don't think anyone really gives half a rat's *** whether or not the Newbie Lounge is there or not. I don't see enough discussional intelligent topics going into that forum for it to matter for anything. The only reason I see a need for it is because I am tired of seeing post after post of "Hi I'm new" in the General Lounge. We need some place to dump those useless topics.

Since posts don't count, and nothing highly important goes into that forum i really don't see a need to get rid of it nor to keep it. So why not just leave things the way they are. No need to go wacko over a section like the Newbie Lounge. Save it for something highly more important. Like me :p Or other more active intelligent forums.

[Phantom]

Heh, Well CWB, whatever you want to say about not pm'ing James you know full well that all this fighting to keep the lounge was useless.

And YES, it would be a member decided thing....The lounge was gona go regardless, I guess you didnt read me right, and instead rambled for an hour hehe.

If somthign is going to happen, that is a staff initiated idea, than its gona damnedwell happen,

Members would have a say in what happens, after the initial deliberation is made. This has done nothing but turn Mnemolth into somthing for you guys to laugh at...every time he says somthing your responces include laughing. He wasnt laughing at you, he was only sticking up for somthing that he really doesnt care bout, if you look, he doesnt post there all too much. But in the end, every time somone posts a long post.. its like who has the bigger balls.. ever SINGLE time ive seen an initial long post regarding this topic someone else had to out do his/her length....its not a pissing contest...is it?

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mystic's Knight [/i]
[B]Heh, Well CWB, whatever you want to say about not pm'ing James you know full well that all this fighting to keep the lounge was useless.

And YES, it would be a member decided thing....The lounge was gona go regardless, I guess you didnt read me right, and instead rambled for an hour hehe.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Okay, now go back and try to [I]read[/I] the post. It wasn't just directed towards you for one thing, and for another, it wasn't rambling. I was summarizing my argument and pointing out obviously overlooked issues.

Also, as I said, if you (gasp) read my post, this thread isn't just about bringing down that section. It's also a matter of suggeting improvements. That's been said numerous times. Maybe you missed it or something. In that instance, this thread should be in the public.

And I still believe that if better arguments were made, keeping the forum could have been seriously considered. Instead, most defend it as a SPAM forum.

Also, I'm not "pissing" on Mnemolth, and I didn't laugh directly at him. I laugh at a particular issue, but I never said, "Haha Mnemolth, your points are hilarious." In fact, I believe I said I respect his opinion in my last post. I never dismissed his posts as rambling either. ;)

[Phantom]

:) Thnx CWB, you clearly set me straight. .:Has been told:.

I also (feels winded) read your post, and it was good, yes it was. Im glad that we had this debate, it was the first time I have seen our staff and members share their vision in a large shaping of the boards...and because I didnt have anything to do with the CB section, I am still happy to have been here for this.. hehe.

[size=1][b]*shakes' hands with CWB and James and Mnemolth and Semjaza and Sere and everyone who supported, or did not support the NL*[/b][/size]

[Mnemolth]

I've made my points two to three times before, but if I need to reiterate them once more the so be it.

[b]"Fact: The Newbie Lounge Generates Spam. It has fallen far behind other forums in terms of quality."[/b]

...and by quality you mean intelligent and articulate discussions, right?....hmm....what were we talking about again? ;)

I guess it would be nice to paint me in some lunatic corner rallying for a spam-for-all lounge. Unfortunately, I've never advocated such a thing. What I have said is that rules are needed, and in fact, the [i]same[/i] rules that apply to the rest of the Board should be applied to the Newbie Lounge. [i]How[/i] those rules are applied to a particular post, though, should take into account the [i]context[/i] of that post. It is just as important to consider the [i]intent[/i] and [i]tone[/i] of a post as much as its contents.

And please don't jump the gun and imply that I advocate preferential treatment for the Newbie Lounge. To bring it back to earth, if you make a post about Digimon in the Cowboy Bebop forum, that would be inappropriate. Not because the post itself is inapprorpiate but because the context is wrong. Put it in the Digimon forum and all's well with the world. :D

The same applies to the Newbie Lounge. Only there the context includes such notions as tone and intent, not just content. The Newbie Lounge is a place to welcome new members. Welcome is the key word. The test to see whether the Lounge is working or not is [i]not[/i] what bits of information you can get from the people posting there. Its whether they feel welcomed or not. That's why friendliness is so much more important, and that's why it should be given much more weight in the Newbie Lounge than perhaps elsewhere. Remember, this is a place whose primary function is to greet new members.

[b]"Fact: We learn nothing of the member in their first post, that can't be learned from their profile, signature or posting habits. Why do you think so many questions are formed in Otaku Lounge regarding real names, and locations? Yes, members are uncomfortable posting it initially. So, what's the point of the forum? They can post the same "Hi, I'm new" comment, at the start of their first post in any other forum."[/b]

Otakuboards is a friendly place. Why can't people be welcomed everywhere? Well, OB may be a friendly place, but I'll let you in on a little secret. ;) Most people, myself included, get rather bored of greeting new members. Oh its fine, until the tenth, twentieth, thirtieth one. Then we run out of things to say, then we get bored. Its not our [i]thing[/i]. Being always cheerful pretty much regardless of who the poster is and what they have to say wears most of us down. Our enthusiasm is not indefatigable (sorry for the big word). So if there is a bunch of people with boundless energy who are willing and able to do that task, why not leave them alone to do their job?

[b]"Fact: The Newbie Lounge places a bad impression on new members. It influences poor posting habits."[/b]

And your 'hard-hitting' evidence for this would be...? Has there being a rampaging legion of spammers coming through the Newbie Lounge recently that I'm not aware of? According to James,

"In fact, this site's activity has significantly increased as a direct result of our pursuit of higher quality posting. Our own results suggest that most people are sick and tired of the spam infested mainstream forums. And that is partly why OtakuBoards has become a place of high quality RPGs, intelligently humorous/silly discussions and whatever else."

So it would seem then that OtakuBoards is now a better place than it was before. How is it then that in the same breath you can say that the Newbie Lounge is to be blamed for the decline in post quality?

Because it makes common sense that if people are exposed to 'poor' quality posts when they are new, then it will influence their posting habits. Maybe so, but if this 'commone sense' is not borne out by the facts of the situation, then I suggest there is something wrong in the 'common sense'.

[b]"Fact: People are free to be themselves in other forums. I mean, why not? As stated, they are not being themselves in Newbie Lounge."[/b]

Really? And when did I suggest they were?? If you go out on the town on a Saturday night, and get completely wasted, you may be letting your hair down, but that ain't the [i]real[/i] you. At least I hope not. ;)

The Newbie Lounge provides people with an opportunity to be silly for the sake of being silly. No one is going to make a snide remark or cut them down for being a little juvenile. In that sense, yes, it is a refuge. It is not a place to 'vent', it is a place to have fun. Of course the other forums are fun too but the Newbie Lounge allows some members to have a different kind of fun. You don't like that kind of fun? Fine. Don't go there. But closing it down and ruining it for everyone else is going a little far, don't ya think?

[b]"Fact: These are recreational boards. All the forums are recreationally based."[/b]

See previous paragraph. Also are you saying that every forum is the same. Because they clearly are not. They differ in style, in tone, and in content.

Look, at the end of the day, all this is, as James' countrymen would put it, just a whole lot of 'w*nking'. Boards have owners, they have people who run them, and they are the ones that decide. And that is the way it should be. Because if the Boards 'fail' they are the ones that would have to pay the 'price'. The Internet is not a democracy.

But this is a Suggestions/Feedback forum, input was asked, and so I have given my two cents worth. And I have been strong in my opinions because this whole thing smacks of elitism, and that always boils my blood. Because elitism is really just another way of being intolerant.

There is a bunch of people that have put a lot of time and energy into doing something that they thought helps the community. Whatever your opinions about their actions, they have been tireless in their efforts. Yet, instead of acknowledging their contribution, instead of rewarding them, you not only publicly diss and humiliate them, you take away one of their main sources of fun on these Boards, you plan to remove their playground.

And you do this despite the fact that they have readily admitted they may have gone too far at times. You do this regardless of the fact that they are willing to do some changing. You do this, even though, as many have pointed out, they are not harming or hurting anyone. If the Newbies Lounge doesn't matter, if its by and large ignored, why are people so insistent on removing it, and taking away the fun and joy that it gives to some of your fellow members of this community?

There is no compromise. You give them nothing and you take everything away. You treat them like garbage. You treat them as if they don't count. And you are older and wiser and you should know better (yes James I do think age matters on occasion, but let's not get into that whole agist thing here). I mean they are happily playing in their little playground, you come along and post a topic like this, and you rip their playground right under their feet. While they're still in it. Where's the decency in that?

If some of you would just take a deep breath, step back and just think about what you're doing and how you're doing it, you may find it as distasteful as I do.

But that is about as likely to happen as Harlequin is to break out into a song and dance number. ;)

[Semjaza]

[quote]"Fact: People are free to be themselves in other forums. I mean, why not? As stated, they are not being themselves in Newbie Lounge."

Really? And when did I suggest they were?? If you go out on the town on a Saturday night, and get completely wasted, you may be letting your hair down, but that ain't the real you. At least I hope not.[/quote]

I am still reading the rest of this... But keep in my CWB is not only addressing you. There have been a few people here who have said just that, and some have implied it as well.

[James]

[color=royalblue]It's ironic that some of you take this so deadly serious. It's just a forum that may or may not get the axe. Come on people...if you defend Newbie Lounge as much as your political beliefs or something, then I think you need to get outside a little more. I mean, really...what's the point?

Newbie Lounge is probably one of the least important forums on the entire site, regardless of its number of posts or whatever else.

So what's the bottom line?

Very simple. Newbie Lounge is certainly a nice place to be welcomed and to have silly discussion. It does have its positives. And I don't think anyone is denying that.

However, anyone who actually reads through this forum can clearly see that many posts are totally unrelated to one another and that the entire thing constitutes a "spam forum". It is really no different from the "Spam Forum" that was suggested to the staff a while ago.

Now, you can read into that all you like...or you can sit there and ramble on and on about the parallels between our staff and a dictatorship. But all this deep discussion is frankly a waste of my time and energy.

Ultimately, we're talking about one forum. It's a forum that few people actually post in, despite its size. And those that do are mostly posting spam. If you like that kind of post quality, you are most welcome to launch your own boards that contain nothing but Newbie Lounge-esque forums. That's fine. But ultimately, OtakuBoards will be run in whatever way we decide, take it or leave it.

Of course, we can have discussions also...which is what we're doing now. And that's fine too. But let's not turn this into something that it really isn't. lol

As I said, I'm planning to perform a slight upgrade within the next few weeks. This might include the introduction of My Otaku in one form or another. As for Newbie Lounge...I'm still thinking about it. But really, whether it exists or not...it's not of much consequence to anyone here. There are many places on the Internet to let your hair down, if you feel that OtakuBoards is too Hitler-like for you. :)[/color]

[Guest Morph]

[size=1] o_O; James is right, you people need to get out if your having a World War III over a forum. I also agree with James, it's a place where all of the Newbies can say "Hey" and try to get other members to be their friends or something. But I've also noticed that the posts are all repetitive. They are all the same basic post, although the posts do not count, its a waste of bandwitch at anything. But I seriously couldn't care if it went out and we just renamed it "Otaku Pictures." Or something of that sort. I say just let James decide and what he decides is normally the best choice of action. I truly believe that, no I'm not sucking up, I just believe that James is intelligent enough to make the most legit decision.[/size]

[Phantom]

La la la la... hehe ok. Mnemolth is really cool because he decided to give it a go, trying to make somthing out of nothing, and I think for not really careing all that much, he did put up a neato fight. I am just happy to be tugged along throughout this whole thing...most of you are laughing at me by now lol..but bleh, no matter how we look at this whole situation, its no big deal...OB is still the best boards on the net no matter what we do to mangle/demangle(is that a word? haha) it. The Rpg forum is filled with so many different styles of expression its kinda funny. In the end, James and CWB are right, I just wish that y'all just did it and than asked for what we want to change it to...heh anyway...

Ive had requests from like four people now to help support the newbie lounge, an each time i declined...there is no point.. this wasnt a fight, just a bit of heated discussion..and what Mnemolth and CWB did by making their banners (D_A as well) I think its pretty cool but ultimately pointless.. :)

[James]

[color=royalblue]Well I guess that's why this thread is here, Mystic's. CWB wanted to gain opinion...and I wanted to generate some new ideas.

Realistically, even for those who like the forum...I don't think there is anyone who can't see what's wrong with it. So, the basic message here is that we need a change for the better. The question is what that change might be.

Ultimately, even if the forum does get replaced (and it probably will), I think that the replacement will be really worthwhile for everyone. And OtakuBoards will continue to grow. We'll continue to make efforts to create a more fun, more enjoyable experience...while also trying to keep post quality at a maximum level.

So yeah, let's face it...it's just a silly forum. It's not too important. We can always find creative ways of improving the system. :)[/color]

[Domon]

Actually i think that the Newbie forum is an okay idea. But thats just my opinion, really what you need to do is give those kind of examples in the rules or something like that. I mean the Newbie forum is a good place to meet new members of the Otaku Board family, we just need to watch how we post, plus the newbie forum gives us the chance to observe how people act etc. This is just my opinion, thats all.

[Boo]

~ Edited March 22, 2012 by Boo

[James]

[color=royalblue]Dark_Apocalyps, I don't think you've read ANYTHING here.

For starters, how on Earth can you compare Newbie Lounge to the Adventure Arena? Just LOOK at both of them. Newbie Lounge is unique in terms of its spam. At the very least, the Banner/Avatar Request forum is fulfilling some kind of tangible need (mainly because our own avatar gallery is down).

You yourself have been guilty of spamming in many places on these boards, including Adventure Arena.

And "any boards" might have an Introduction forum -- but we aren't "any boards", are we? Something that makes OtakuBoards noteable is its post quality...which has been steadily improving over time.

Anyway, I don't want to continue having this debate. Most people seem to understand the main points, but when someone comes along and rants incoherently, that's just annoying. D_A, I recommend that you actually read and interpret the comments here before you post -- all you're succeeding in doing is adding to my blood pressure. o_O

I would also ask everyone to remove these silly Newbie Lounge images from their signatures, in good faith. This is turning into the single most ridiculous subject I've ever seen on this site! It's JUST a forum! Please...you all act like the rest of the boards are totally boring and Newbie Lounge is the only place you can post, when in reality, that's just not true and you know it.

It does not surprise me that D_A, one of the worst offenders in NL is here defending it. People who pay more attention to post quality and who try to adhere to the rules are actually the same people who, more often than not, are going to support any decision to improve post quality.

Anyway, I'm only stating the obvious. I just think that regardless of what happens, we need to take this down a notch...calm the rhetoric and remove the ridiculous banners. Let's just enjoy what we have, rather than getting in a tantrum over such a minor issue.[/color]