Voting? What's that?

[James]

[color=royalblue]Actually, America's Electoral College system is superior to the Canadian system.

Why? Because it's not as simple as saying "most votes wins". Some parts of the nation have higher populations than others. It is necessary to form averages and look at national voter trends. If you have one city with a million people and one city with one hundred people...and the bigger city always votes one way, the smaller city will never get a say. I don't know if that's the best example, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

In Australia, we have a totally different system to America/Canada (one which I believe is superior). We have preferential voting. You don't just vote for one candidate, you vote for about five or six...in order of preference. That way, we never ever experience a deadlock, no matter how close votes are.

Anyway, I've been following the midterms in the USA closely...I wonder if the House or Senate will change hands.[/color]

[Sara]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=royalblue]Anyway, I've been following the midterms in the USA closely...I wonder if the House or Senate will change hands.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]Yeah, it's supposed to be quite the hot topic. ::looks amused:: [Not that I've heard a soul talking about it outside of AP History, but still.] There's an incredibly small margin of majority right now, and there's a good chance of a turnover in the House.[/SIZE]

[Phantom]

But James, the Electoral College is designed for a country with upwards in 200 million (more or less?) people. Canada has about 40 million. Our setup is so, that in nature, our's is quite substantialy superior in performance. So lets get this straight...If Canada used the electoral college side of it, It would be no more effective than any other system.

Besides, the promises the National leaders make are almost always broken in the long run...no one can ever deny it either.

I do like Australia's system though...that is rather good!

[James]

[color=royalblue]Well, honestly...if your population is over 10 people, then you're going to need a way of distributing and adjusting votes. Otherwise you'll get a somewhat distorted picture. Obviously, the Electoral College's job is to look at voting from across the nation and treat every state equally. If they didn't, then some states would have more power than others, when it comes to choosing a President.

And then, if you have states that are mainly democratic or republican in nature...well, it wouldn't be fair. So I think it makes sense.[/color]

[1337]

If I was 18 I probably...would not have voted....

[Phantom]

Got a reason why? ... My reason would be that as long as I have my little job..and my little money and my amazingly awesome..adorable loving charismatic lover, wifey-to-be-legally-one-blasted-day... ile be happy no matter who is running my country...honestly...i got my RRSP, and i got my Mutual funds..and i got my registered savings bonds and i got my lil netowrking job.... christ when im 40 ile be living happy even if mr PM or mr POTUS or mr whoever is running my country wants to ....i dont know..i dont care cuz in the end it does not matter to me.

[Transtic Nerve]

Odd, I specifically remember Gore PLAINLY winning the popular vote. Screw the recounts. Thats what messed everything up in the first place. Truthfully, I wished they would have just thrown out every vote in Florida. I didn't vote in that election, for I was not old enough at the time, but if Floridians are too stupid to figure out such a simple ballot (I mean seriously, I've seen the "controversial ballot" and it was EASY) then their vote shouldn't count. You also have to count that many absentee ballots were thrown out. Or only some were counted. Some 15,000 overseas soldiers didn't get to vote. I realize there's no use arguing over it because Bush is in office (which in itself, you all should be ashamed of. I mean seriously, You had John McCain and Bush to choose from in Primarys and you Republicans chose Bush.... why is beyond me, but again it's over with)

Anyway, this state is going to hell because of Jeb Bush. ::sigh:: I'm moving....

At least Amedment 6 passed... something to be happy about....

[Kent]

Yea, the Mc cain thing is a good question.

But I must say that it was gore who specifically asked for the recounts.

Although, recounts in a close election are mandatory by the rules.

But even more screwy, is that in the rule about election recounts it specifically says recount "all" ballots. not just one in predominantly democratic counties.

Its all in the book I spoke of in my first post in this thread.

[Charles]

I dislike both candidates in New Jersey's senate race. As I said in our political round table in class today, Frank Lautenberg, is merely a walking corpse, animated by the puppet strings of the Democratic party. The man is seventy-eight years old, and I greatly disapprove of him being elected as a representative, when he holds little in common with average, middle class people.

On top of literally [B]stealing[/B] a place on the ballot by replacing Torricelli five weeks after the deadline, he purposefully side stepped a televised debate until just last week. Why? Because he babbles incoherently.

Doug Forrester, on the other hand, hasn't really revealed much about himself. He's a nobody. Instead of preaching his views and discussing issues, he spent much of his campaign bashing Torricelli, until he finally withdrew from the race.

Since, I couldn't make up my mind, I didn't vote. I regret that decision though. Democracy is still very young, only truly being born in the 1960s. So, it's quite possible for it to die before I do. It's really important to just get out there and vote--even if it means doing a write-in.

[BabyGirl]

[color=deeppink]I didn't vote today because of the fact that I just recently moved to California, and I don't feel a need as of yet. Maybe when I've been living here a year or so I'll start consentrating on their state issues, but as of now I'm still legally a Michigan resident.

It would be possible to vote for Michigan senators from here in California, but since I don't live [i]there[/i] any more, I again don't see the need.[/color]

[Mnemolth]

Thought I'd mention a couple of things since I get the impression that if you didn't know anything about American politics you might be easily misled by some of what has been said in this thread. And we wouldn't want any misinformation now would we? Not on a bulltein board! Heheheh.

Its true that the Electoral College system means that 'technically' the general population doesn't get to vote for the President directly (not the other way round as someone suggested before). Instead they vote for 'electors' who then meet once and once only to vote for the President. 'Technically' this means the choice is really up to the 'electors', chosen by the people of each State. In reality that's all a load of crap. In the modern era, by 'convention', the 'electors' [b]always[/b] votes as the people have decided. In fact, I don't remember any modern election where that wasn't the case. So in the end, yes, its the general person on the street that votes in the President. No doubt this would scare some of you, as well it should! :D

How the Electoral College system works has been pretty much described by other people and essentially right. One big hiccup though is the impression that the Electoral College system gives each State an [b]equal[/b] say in deciding the Presidency. That's completely false. California, which is the biggest State (ie with the most population) in the country also happens to have the most electoral votes. Over 50 by memory. Some of the smaller States have as few as only 4. So as you can see, if you win Cali, its worth more than winning half a dozen small States. However, having said that, the Electoral system still protects smaller States because it gives them a [b]greater[/b] say than they might otherwise have had, because the number of electoral votes is [b]not directly[/b] related to the population. It is somehow related to the number of Congressmen for that State. So one vote in Cali may not be worth as much as say one vote in Iowa or Nevada (yay! Las Vegas!! :)).

As for the the 2000 Election. Again there seems to be some confusion. I'm not a 100% sure but I do believe that Florida, after the recount, actually had Bush winning that State by a few hundred votes. But considering that this State decided the presidency, and to lose by a few hundred votes when there were [b]millions[/b] of votes cast, you can probably understand why the Democrats are still bitter about 2000.

And I guess here is the important bit. You can probably sympathise with the Democrats a little more when you realise that, out of the 100 or so million votes cast all over the country, Gore won the popular vote with over [b]half a million[/b] votes more than Bush. And then to lose the Presidency by a few hundred lousy votes in Florida, well, that would get anyone peeved! ;)

But the rules are the rules. And everyone knew them going into the election so its no use b*tching about it when it doesn't go your way. Bush is the legitimate President.

So why all this ruckus about 2000? Even 2 years after the event? Well because the Democrats can't believe they lost in the way they lost. So close and yet so far. The agony. You can almost feel it. And the Republicans? Well they can't quite believe they won in the manner they did. They lost the popular vote, and that counts, and they know it. After all, when is said and done, both sides realise no President has lost the popular vote for 100 years!

PS: If you're wondering how anal I am, I should just say that the above post was written entirely from memory. On the one hand, I did not trawl through the Net to find all the details (I'm pretty sure I've got most things right, but I'd be glad for you to point out any errors I've made, ;)), so I guess I'm not so lame. On the other hand, imagine someone having all of that information in their head...and still watching anime and posting on anime Bulletin boards.....hmmm....I'll leave you with that frightening thought. :D

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]Anyway, this state is going to hell because of Jeb Bush. ::sigh:: I'm moving....[/B][/QUOTE]

Hey, whaddya know, so am I. Too many democrats where I live.

[Guest Hikaru Ichijyo]

I have the right to vote though choose not to exercise that right based on the fact most politicians promise things and never deliver. It's rather discouraging to vote here in NYC, because most of the candidates aren't even worth voting for....

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrist cutter [/i]
[B]Hey, whaddya know, so am I. Too many democrats where I live. [/B][/QUOTE]

Lets swap... I KNOW how much you LOVE the east coast lol. ;p

[Kent]

I think its important to remember that the electoral college votes are proportionate to the population of the state.

With that said, if you win all of the electoral college votes, you have won the general populations vote.

Although its important to mention that there is one major point about the 2000 election race...


ITS OVER.

enough said.

-------------
came back to edit, thought everyone would want to know the full story on that book.

Its written by bill sammon, the full title is: At Any Cost, how Al Gore tried to steal the election.

Its not the greatest, but it gives the really story from an independant with sources from both sides.

[amiboshi]

I'm not old enough to vote, being only 14 and all....

I live in Florida, and I wish Mcbride had won... I hate all the publicity commercials about how Jeb Bush "cares about the children's education and the schools"... If he cares so much, then why is the school system slowly being destroyed? Do they call cutting our 7th subject beneficial...[i]for the kids[/i]? Yeah...okay...

[Kent]

I have a new found FACT. Go ahead and check it out. Heck use cnn.com.

The state attorney general of florida at the time of the 2000 election was Bob Butterworth.

Guess what state he chaired Al Gores campaign for.

Florida.

Its an amazing coincidence if you ask me. I dont think he would have let the events of the election go down if they were bogus.

oh yea, one more thing. Florida was the only state butterworth chaired gores campaign in.

But hey thats just my side.

But the names and positions, those are facts.

Just check a nov. 14, 2000. story from cnn.

Its all there.

[Yu Yu Hakusho!]

Since I'm not even 18 yet, I can't vote. A lady at the voting office asked if I wanted to vote....(damn, I should've!) but I just watched my dad. All the people that are running here in Texas aren't exactly people I like, but then again you are trying to vote for the person who will least hurt you and your community or invade your life. I'm Republican/Consertative (thanks to my dad) but maybe I'll change when I'm older....I hate to get into polticial conversations since they always end up in fights...but anyway, I will vote when I have the chance cuz you can't gripe about your government if you didn't even vote (that is if you are eligable to vote)!

[Spikey]

I'm not old enough to vote yet. But these few past years I have made a list on who I would of voted on, if I could. I am in sdudent couincil in school. That is sorta like the goverment, for the elementry that is.

[James]

[color=royalblue]gokents, what's your point?

I could easily provide a similar point for Republicans. Why do people always pretend that their own party is somehow always right and the other isn't?

Down here in Australia I tend to vote for the Liberal/National Coalition (Conservatives)...because they tend to run the nation better. But I'm not going to pretend that they don't engage in underhandedness. lol[/color]

[Phantom]

James, I guess you forget that Americans are reaaaaallly cracked out about their political stuff. Christ, everything to do with politics in the states is sso god damned backwards and inside out it's funny.

[Mnemolth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i]
[B]
Its written by bill sammon, the full title is: At Any Cost, how Al Gore [i]tried to steal[/i] the election.

Its not the greatest, but it gives the really story from an independant with sources from both sides. [/B][/QUOTE]

Now if then went on to write a twin book called: [u]At Any Cost, how Dubya [b]stole[/b] the election[/u], now then it would be an independent account showing both sides of the story. :)

Look, its clear to everyone that Bush was very very [b]very[/b] lucky to get into the Whitehouse. There hasn't be a President who has won office but lost the popular vote in around 100 yrs! You're gonna tell me that doesn't matter? Of course it matters! :p

And if you run a race, with a total of over 100 million votes, and you beat your rival by over half a million, but still lost the election because you're short of a few hundred votes in a State, you reckon you wouldn't have a few sour grapes as well??

Mystic: And as for politics being a little screwed in the US, its the same everywhere dude. In Oz, in the UK, hell, even in Japan. :D

[Kent]

You do realize there is a difference between showing bias, and telling the truth.

If gore had won floridas popular vote he would have won the state.

If he simply got more votes in the country, that doesnt mean he got the popular vote. You really need to account for the electoral system that equalizes the say of a little state like rhode island and a huge state like new york.

Gore lost, just as you said we all know, and its over.

But what bothers me is how you managed to dodge the points made in my last post.

If you ask me, nothing illeagal or wrong happend. Gore just did the ultimate job of getting a bunch of loud mouth politically active people to scream and whine about him and his losing the election.

Oh well, gore lost. Too bad.

[James]

[color=royalblue]It's not about telling the truth in your case, gokents. It's about [i]twisting[/i] the truth or making some kind of insinuation.

I'm not denying that there are probably some nasty goings-on in the Democratic party (I could probably point to a million examples). But let's not pretend that the same exact thing doesn't happen in the Republican camp.[/color]

[Stitch]

voting lol hehe i lughed so hard i fell off my chair. people vote because they are scared. plain and simple i mean your so scared the person you don't want to win is going to that you vote for a person of better quality but nope you will never see me voting i hate the stupid process. i hate they liying cheating and unfairness of the whole process so i say burn the ballots cuz its cold up here in canada and we need the heat wave!!!! hahahahaha oh and bush can come to canada anytime as long as he sticks a stick up his a** and says he's a popsicle the cold heartless retard.
stitch
p.s sorry if this offends anyone but its just the way i feel!