Post Count...

[Boba Fett]

[COLOR=green]Do we really need post counts? As long as they are there, people will spam simply to become a "Member" or an "Extreme Otaku" or whatever. Now that custom avatars are no longer tied to post counts, why have post counts? Just so we can have titles?

This probably won't happen due to the extra work it would force overworked moderators to do, but titles should be awarded based on quality and not quantity.

I think that post counts should be abolished. What do you think? [/COLOR]

[Mnemolth]

Well, I wouldn't hold your breath. Post counts will not be abolished anytime soon. It might be hidden or they might do something with it, but no one is gonna get rid of it altogether.

Reason?

Simple really. Despite what everyone says about not caring about post counts, blah blah blah, the bottom line is that everyone [i]does[/i]. Of course some more than others, but I do mean [i]everyone[/i] (save one or two exceptions, and if you are reading this, no, you are [i]not likely[/i] to be one of those exceptions). I posted a suggestion about reducing everyone's post counts to zero in another thread. Except for MK, who for some reason I can't take seriously ;), no one accepted the challenge. Which to me says a helluva lot...

This is a place essentially populated by teenagers. And of course no teenager I've ever known has ever cared about status/rank/titles...:D

PS: You are right, your suggestion would require too much moderation. Besides, how are you going to measure 'quality'? To do it objectively, transparently and without bias, you'll need to measure the number of 'valid' posts and then determine how many such posts are required for each 'level'. Which brings you back to the same problem...:)

[Transtic Nerve]

When did you post this thing? I wouldn't think twice if smeone took all my posts away. I never know how many posts I have and I really don't care... if I have 2 million or 2 hundred, I don't care. I'll take that challenge anyday. Post count means NOTHING to me, and I won't hesitate to proove that. And I really don't think it should mean anything to anyone. It doesn't proove anything significant. It either prooves you've a) been here a long time, b) post on a regular basis, or c) spam as much as you can and are just an idiot.

[Guest cloricus]

Well I was very, very annoyed when I finally got to 500 and it was set it so any one can have a custom avatar.
I what be very annoyed if it was abolished, I worked hard to get these posts. I am looking forward to getting the otaku title.

-Lord EpSsy

[James]

[color=royalblue]What would reducing post counts to zero do? What would it achieve? Nothing. People would still be able to build up their post counts once more -- I don't see how it solves the problem.

Many of the more mature members on these forums don't care about post counts. I know I don't. My status doesn't change regardless of my post count.

Clearly, whatever we do, some people will complain. Just as with Newbie Lounge, a removal of post counts would have some people coming out in support of the move and some people coming out against it. It's impossible to please everyone.

I have been looking for an [i]alternative[/i] to post counts. But I have yet to find anything satisfactory. So, for the time being, it's probably easiest to simply leave post counts as they are. In truth, there are few alternatives available that are worthwhile.

But as always, I will listen to what people have to say and gauge the reaction to this thread.[/color]

[Mnemolth]

It would do plenty. If everyone really doesn't care about post counts, then let them put their money where their mouth is, so to speak.

You don't even need a vBulletin hack. Just go into the admin panel, delete all groups save one, call it 'Members' (or 'Newbies' if you have a ironic sense of humour) or anything else you want. Have the the required posts for that level set to zero, and then everyone is the same (except for the mods/admins who of course will still have their titles). There is only ever one title so there is little point in moving up 'levels'.

Wouldn't that be great? Everyone the same...so that someone who has made only ten posts can stand shoulder to shoulder with someone else who has made a thousand. :D

Is it gonna happen? Not on your life. Why?? Because people's post counts [i]do[/i] matter. Period. I dunno how much more simpler I can make it.

Many of the 'more mature' members of this forum doesn't care about post counts? That's a load of bollocks and you know it. Of course they care. Some of them may care more than others but they all care. Take away a 100, they're not gonna give a damn. Take away 200, and all is still well. But starting taking away a thousand or two, and they will care. If there is no way to easily differentiate between veterans and newbies, then people will care. So please let's not start patronizing the 'younger' members of this forum about 'more mature' members having a higher level of ethics or values or whatever other nonsense.

"It's impossible to please everyone". True. But the point is if you get rid of post counts [i]completely[/i], then you will please [i]no one[/i], except maybe me or one or two others. And you're not gonna want to displease the overwhelming majority of the Board just for the heck of it. If you're gonna do something as drastic as that you're gonna need a damn good reason. And guess what? None has yet been provided.

So why am I suggesting this? Well because that is the topic of this thread, but moreover because I'm sick and tired of people taking the "high moral ground" and saying that post counts don't matter. Its silly, ridiculous and patently false. Let's stop the hypocrisy shall we? :D

As for the removal of the Newbie Lounge, well in the half year or so I've been on here, I do believe that is the most disappointing thing I've seen from the leadership of this Board. Not for the action or the decision, but the manner in which it was done. The callous, indifferent and complete contempt shown to some members of this Board was sickening to behold. But let's not get into that. Not because its done and I should 'get over it'. But because it was a very disappointing thing, and I don't really want to be reminded of my disappointment.

And people, let's not circle the wagons around James. I'm sure he's quite capable of taking care of himself. As no doubt his repsonse will demonstrate...:D

[Red]

[quote]Despite what everyone says about not caring about post counts, blah blah blah, the bottom line is that everyone does.[/quote]

[b]I couldn't care less about my post count, especially not now. Before I wanted 500 posts so I could become a member and use a custom avatar, but after the "become a member and you can use a custom avatar" thing wasn't around anymore, I didn't care, and I still don't.

The other day I realised I had close to 700 posts, whoopie. In my opinion it's quality over quantity.

But, I think the post count system is cool, as it can show newer members who has been around for quite a while, and they can use the older member as an example.[/b]

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i]
[B]As for the removal of the Newbie Lounge, well in the half year or so I've been on here, I do believe that is the most disappointing thing I've seen from the leadership of this Board. Not for the action or the decision, but the manner in which it was done. The callous, indifferent and complete contempt shown to some members of this Board was sickening to behold. But let's not get into that. Not because its done and I should 'get over it'. But because it was a very disappointing thing, and I don't really want to be reminded of my disappointment.

And people, let's not circle the wagons around James. I'm sure he's quite capable of taking care of himself. As no doubt his repsonse will demonstrate...:D [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#507AAC]Contempt? Callous and indifferent? I don't know what posts you were reading.

Indeed, you should get over it. If anything, you're an absolute hypocrite. You have the gall to label [i]me[/i] as callous and yet you are the one who continually attacks anyone who disagrees with your point of view. Moreover, I've seen nothing but childish baiting coming from you since that thread. For someone who continually reminds us of his relative senior age, I find it highly dissappointing that you of all people would engage in such conversation.

With regard to your suggestion, once again, I don't see the point. When we first launched on VBulletin, many members had to re-register. And so, people who had had over 3000 posts on our v2 boards were now down to zero. My point is, we can level the playing field all we like, but if we're going to do that, then why not remove post counts altogether?

What happens when post counts rise to the level that they are at once again? Do we then reset everyone to zero in an effort to please those with lower post counts, who may have joined after this action was taken? And if so, once again, what is the purpose? To make people temporarily "feel good"?

Ultimately, that's a non-solution. If we were going to do that, then it would be more appropriate to just remove post counts.

Once again, I most definitely recommend that you "get over" Newbie Lounge. It seems to me that the entire point of your involvement was to "crusade against the bad guys", so to speak. But given the incredibly immature way in which you have conducted yourself in recent times, all you have managed to do is hurt your crediblity and lose the respect of those who once respected you (myself included).

Frankly, I'm sick of your rudeness, your baiting and your constant nasty/inappropriate references to myself and the other staff on this board. It is highly ironic that you accuse me of being callous (and I recommend that you read the NL thread again and find one example of me being callous), when you yourself have done nothing but behave in an unproductive, obstructionist manner. For someone who claims to be more mature than the "teenagers" on this board, it's utterly fraudulent of you to exhibit the behavior that we've all recently seen.

And that is all I'm going to say on the issue. If you want to continue your childish quest to fight the power, then you can do it on another board. Because what was left of my patience has most definitely run out.[/color]

[Guest Morph]

Well I have a solution... Just make all titles for REGULAR members the same... Just put it as "Member."

Don't delete the post count, just get rid of the title differences... I think that would get rid of some of the problem. But now that the custom avatar can be acheived at any post level I don't care about posts anymore... Although, before way back when, I was so serious in them... So serious that it was sicking, I look back on it and laugh at my own stupidity for caring for stupid posts on an online forums.

o_o; And Mnemolth, if your still bickering about the NL, then you SERIOUSLY need to get a life or something. Pick up a hobby, but whats done is done and YOU of all people CANNOT change that.

[James]

[color=#507AAC][size=1]At this point, I doubt that post counts/status will be changed. The fact is, people want these systems in place. Post counts and various status levels are not ideal, but at least they are something.

As I mentioned previously, I would much rather have an alternative to post counts. But until I can find something suitable, I doubt the situation will change. Regardless of what people think of post counts, I don't think that they are necessarily doing any [i]harm[/i] to the boards at this stage. Of course there are some members who spam to increase posts...but no matter what system we have, we'll have spammers.

So unless I get some massive wave of support for removing post counts altogether, I don't see it happening.[/color][/size]

[Guest Morph]

Oh ok, well did you look into KARMA? Its one of the alternatives to post counts. I think it works well, its not so much as post counts but when someone likes your post on something they can give you karma. But of course you get karma as you post but even more when someone gives you karma. But you've probably looked into KARMA, right?

[Transtic Nerve]

I should be enough for removal of post counts... lol but alas... I don't care about posts and I know some people do... but oh well, it's not making me sick so I don't care.

[Guest Morph]

Heh... But I must wonder, do people care about post counts because of personal status or public status? Or is it just pride or something? I don't know, I thought it was mostly because of the 500 post requirement for a custom avatar... Speaking of avatars, James, thinking of making the avatar size BIGGER? :D Please? Pretty please? With lumps of coal on top....:D

Just make it to 100x100.... Hehe, then I would be happy.

[Mnemolth]

1. I didn't bring up NL, [i]you[/i] did.

2. I [i]did[/i] say I was not going to get into a discussion about NL, and I won't (if you or anyone else is interested PM me), despite your attempt at baiting me into some sort of argument that will no doubt end up with some reason for me getting banned.

So please don't get all high and mighty with me.

You're the admin, not me. This is your Board, not mine. You've been on here far, far longer than me, and certainly a heck of a lot more people, for one reason or another, respect you more than they respect me. So in any p*ssing contest, who do you thinks gonna win?

And that's the way it should be. Because, unless I'm mistaken, you've probably put more blood, sweat and tears into this place than anyone else. So not only do I acknowledge your power, I respect it and your right to hold such authority.

But let's not get off track here. I'm no butt-kisser. Nor am I some lame troll (for the uninitiated to Boards, a troll is someone who comes to a Board to post specious arguments or thinly veiled personal attacks for no other purpose than to annoy or disrupt a discussion). So from time to time I will voice my opinion. As I believe I am entitled to do under the rules.

At this stage, after an ultimatum like the one you issued to me, most people will do one of two things. They will either capitulate, by basically retracting their statements and backing away at 100 miles an hour, or they will post some long-winded rationale for their behaviour and stand defiant with some throw-away line like 'So ban me if you wish, I don't care'.

Well I'm not going to do either. Let me put this on the record. I [i]do[/i] care. I [i]don't[/i] want to be banned. If I didn't give a sh*t I wouldn't have spent the last month trying to decide if I should leave this place or not (still not sure, but its still a decision I want to make for myself and not be decided by someone else).

But I will continue to say what I think. Just because I don't give this Board glowing testimonials is not something that should be held against me. Just because I lock horns with you and many of the old timers here is no reason to dismiss my arguments off-hand and label me some kind of troublemaker. And just because I say things no one else here is prepared to say does not mean I'm not afraid of being banned for saying them.

So if my 'annoyance' is too much for you to take, then by all means ban me. No one here would hold it against you, least of all myself. And yes, I am saying that with a straight face. But please don't make it out to be all nice and fair and objective and for the good of the Board and all that nonsense.

Now that that sermon is out of the way let's get back to the topic at hand. :D

My whole point is not that we should get rid of post counts, but that we should keep them. There is a reason why almost every single Board I've ever been to has a post count. Members like to know where they stand in relation to others. People want and need to be differentiated (in some simple and official way). Post counts and titles are the easiest ways to do that. If you get rid of them, you'll need to install something else that serves the same function.

My suggestion about resetting the post count to zero for everyone was to make a point. If everyone imagines that tomorrow their post counts will all be reduced to zero, what would their reaction be? If they are truly honest with themselves they will say their reaction will range from mild annoyance to total disaster. The point is everyone cares about post counts but very few will admit it.

Just because people care about their post counts does not mean they are 'spammers'. They may well have earned their post counts and that's why it means so much more to them. It is also a mistake to believe that people who care about their post counts come to this Board for that reason alone. It may be the furthest thing from their minds when they post, but it is part of the history of this Board, and their place in it.

[James]

[color=#507AAC][size=1]Mnemolth, do [i]not[/i] try to spin this to make yourself look like the angelic one. You have done nothing but bait me, make nasty comments and generally behave in a rude and immature manner.

I don't mind that you have an opinion and I do welcome you to express your views on the topics at hand. But [i]you[/i] brought up Newbie Lounge, [i]you[/i] consistently baited myself and others with your many references to it and [i]you[/i] have offended just about everybody who doesn't agree with your views.

You either haven't read my last post, or you are trying to spin yourself out of it. But you can't. You can't wriggle your way out of the pit that you have dug yourself into.

My message to you is very simple. You can knock off the one-sided, childish baiting and negative rhetoric and just provide your plain opinion on an issue without adding layers of emotional spin...or you can be banned. I will ultimately leave that choice in your hands. But I don't want to see [i]one more[/i] post like the one I responded to.

Much of it was irrelevant, nasty, spiteful and malicious. I shouldn't have to point that out, but you continually try to dodge the issue. I have been more than fair -- and I expect some sort of general courtesy to be extended when discussions like these take place.[/color][/size]

[Guest SunRiZe]

Morph's suggestion of a replacement for post counts, the KARMA system, sound like the best suggestion yet out of this thread, I would absolutely love to give gifts of karma to other members, it would give the boards a little lift, and maybe encourage more friendships especially if you got a little pop up saying such and such has given you some karma.

[B] a word to the wise and the foolish :p [/B]

anyhow, I think Mnemolth's opinion counts, so if he believes the post count should stay, then he is entitled to that opinion.

[QUOTE] [i]originally posted by Mnemolth[/i]

2. I did say I was not going to get into a discussion about NL, and I won't (if you or anyone else is interested PM me), despite your attempt at baiting me into some sort of argument that will no doubt end up with some reason for me getting banned.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, Mnemolth did NOT initially bring up the newbie lounge topic, James, you used it as an example

[QUOTE] [i]Originally posted by James [/i]

Clearly, whatever we do, some people will complain. Just as with Newbie Lounge, a removal of post counts would have some people coming out in support of the move and some people coming out against it. It's impossible to please everyone.
[/QUOTE]

You are quite right, there will always be a for and against, I wonder if we will once again see emotions run so high that people are making gif banners for their sigs
I am writing now to express my concern at the recent rousing of emotion over NL again, wether it is ridiculous or not, it's emotions are still running hot and imo, that was not the best example to use at this time. I came on these boards to make friends, and i hate to see friends arguing with each other. These are quite petty arguments if you really think about it, and wether you were for or agianst NL, it is now dead. So continue sig tributes and whatever, keep hold of what your opinion is, and when that is important to you, then should no one take it away! I do not wish to see Mnemolth get banned, I don't think anyone does, after all, he is just expressing his opinion, albeit it's a radical opinion, and there may/ may not be "baiting in there,I won't get into that, again imo, everyone point of view is important.

how about getting rid of the suggestions and feedback forum? talk about a forum that generates spam and flaming, phew!

:edit: this is I being sarcastic lol

[Sandy]

Wow! :eek:

That was one big battle of the titans! OUCH! This thread should be removed to the sparring section, or better even, the EVENT ARENA! "Behold the Mighty Battle Between The Admin and A Newbie!"

Teh, these are the threads that make coming to this board TRULY worthwhile...:D

James, I hope you'd use the word "childish" more rarely, because we all know Mnemo isn't being childish at all... a BRAT, yes, but not childish! ;) You both make excellent points, but at the same time, neither of you are REALLY debating, because one of the most important part of debate is to REALLY listen what the other one has to say, not just... well, [i]flaming[/i] -in a very sophisticated way, of course, but still, it's flaming. ;) But all in all, I respect both of your opinions; I, for one, could NEVER use English language as efficienlty as you two!:D

AS FOR THE TOPIC:
Like Mnemo said, I [I]do[/i] give a damn about the post accounts, but if there's any better suggestions (such as the karma-thingie) I'm all ears.:D (Like my word would REALLY mean anything...:rolleyes: )

[James]

[color=#507AAC][size=1]I don't see any flaming here. The only flaming that I see is coming from Mnemolth. Have you actually [i]read[/i] his posts?

On the one hand, he uses throwaway lines to distract attention from the true meaning of his posts. On the other, he lashes out in just about any way possible.

Yes, I do listen to what he says. And as you can see, I have responded to his suggestion and those of others. And yes, I did mention Newbie Lounge as an example -- but Mnemolth turned it into a point of argument.

If Mnemolth is being a brat, how is he [i]not[/i] being childish? I'm afraid that either his use of English is confusing you to the point where you are totally missing his insults/rudeness, or you are simply skimming his post.

Either way, there is no excuse for such behavior. The only reason I respond to it is because I refuse to be lied about -- and that's just what Mnemolth is doing; creating argument for the sake of doing so. There is no greater purpose here other than Mnemolth's ego.

Once again, everyone's point of view IS important. And I do respect Mnemolth's opinions on these subjects. But I [i]will not[/i] tolerate his absolutely blatant and rude baiting of me and others. Do you forget that on several occasions, he has directly insulted [i]every[/i] member on these boards by implying that we are "all teenagers" and thus, somehow we won't understand his masterful English. If you had taken notice of his comments, you might notice that your posts are very much misdirected.

If Mnemolth does not want to get banned, I recommend that he either refrain from posting in this thread again or he focus ONLY on his opinions regarding the topic at hand...and that he completely avoid his rudeness and blatant misrepresentation of my posts. Just as everyone else expects courtesy from me, I expect courtesy from you as well.[/color][/size]

[Charles]

While it's true that I've been against post counts since I can remember, I don't feel that member rank should simply be deleted from the boards. If post counts are removed, it should be at a time when a feasible replacement is available.

I'm not attached to member rank, nor am I a teenager, but I think that resetting them is silly. Why go through all that effort, when it's so easy just to ignore them? I rarely ever look at anyone's post number. Usually, it is newbies themselves who mention their rank within their own posts.

Simply put, rank is good for the boards because it can be motivational to an extent and give members something to work for. Posting a lot isn't a great determinant in member status, and can instigate spamming, but I think at this stage in the boards cycle, poor posting is picked up on quickly enough that such behavior isn't really a problem. So, this is an entirely different situation than a former forum that allowed that particular behavior.

Post counts aren't really doing any harm; they're easy to ignore. So, until a quality replacement system that judges rank on factors like moderated posts and join date becomes available, I don't see much of a need to do away with them.

[TheShinje]

well, since I had made the most horrible mistake in my otaku history, by renaming myself SunRiZe, wich sounds too floury, I took up Mnemolths challenge, so i did not wait for the next name change, imo, it is better to be known by something you like, that to have a bazillion bajillion posts under your belt.


Go with the KARMA idea, it sounds really cool ;)

[James]

[color=#507AAC][size=1]How many accounts have you created, S@abretooth? Do you realize that creating multiple accounts is against our rules?

You've basically just created two dead accounts that I will now have to remove. I hope this is the last time. -.-;;[/color][/size]

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#507AAC][size=1]How many accounts have you created, S@abretooth? Do you realize that creating multiple accounts is against our rules?

You've basically just created two dead accounts that I will now have to remove. I hope this is the last time. -.-;;[/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]


yes, this will be the last time *slaps self* I will not create another account.

[Sandy]

Is it YOU, nuchlear??? But didn't you have an user name BEFORE Nuchlear? So, S@bretooth would be your fourth name?:therock: Oy, some one's got a hobby...

[Desbreko]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i]
[B]Well, I wouldn't hold your breath. Post counts will not be abolished anytime soon. It might be hidden or they might do something with it, but no one is gonna get rid of it altogether.

Reason?

Simple really. Despite what everyone says about not caring about post counts, blah blah blah, the bottom line is that everyone [i]does[/i]. Of course some more than others, but I do mean [i]everyone[/i] (save one or two exceptions, and if you are reading this, no, you are [i]not likely[/i] to be one of those exceptions). I posted a suggestion about reducing everyone's post counts to zero in another thread. Except for MK, who for some reason I can't take seriously ;), no one accepted the challenge. Which to me says a helluva lot...

This is a place essentially populated by teenagers. And of course no teenager I've ever known has ever cared about status/rank/titles...:D[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]Lol...I'm a teenager. I'm 14, to be exact. And guess what? The first message board that I ever joined, the one that I was on before I came here, didn't have post counts. It didn't have titles. It didn't have signatures. It didn't even have avatars. All you got was your username, and that was it. Yet, even without these things, I had some really great times on that board.

And then, when I joined OB here (because the other board upgraded and I couldn't get to it for a long time for some reason), I got a signature, avatar, post count, and a title. I thought "Okay, these are kind of cool," and that was about it. That's still all I think about them. You know why? Because it's simply being able to talk to other people that's important on a message board.

So, to come to my main point, I really, truly do not care about my post count...or my signature...or my avatar. (I'd like to keep my title, simply because it lets people know I'm a moderator, but if I were a normal member, I wouldn't care about it, either). I came from a board that didn't have any of these things, and as such, I'm used to not having them. If avatars and signatures were to be removed I might miss them, since they're good to help add your own little touch to your posts, but I wouldn't be posting protests or anything. I'd go about the board as usual.

Heck, I've even asked James to change my number of posts to the word "Classifed," just so I [i]wouldn't[/i] have a post count. That's how much I don't care about it. (Of course, he never has changed it, because he says that then everyone would be asking for him to change theirs to something. ...Of course, if he did change it and lots of other people did ask him to change theirs, that would kind of show that a lot of people really don't care about their post counts, heh).

Another thing I'd like to say is, how can you really be sure that everyone but one or two people actually do care about their post count? Can you really be absolutely 100% sure that one person, let alone almost everyone on the board, really does care and is just lying? Simply put, no, you can't. Neither you nor anyone besides the specific person knows what they think. ...But anyway, just had to say that. :toothy:

Um...I think I'll end this post now. I'm pretty sure there was at least one point in there somewhere that I made. It's too dang late, and I need sleep. :cross:[/color]

[Armadillomon]

I don't really care either way, so I just voted "yes." I kind of enjoy knowing how many posts I've made since I joined. I also like the avg posts per day feature too.