The Truth...

[Shy]

[size=1]When is it okay to lie to someone? What if you are doing it to protect someone, what if you are doing it to protect yourself?

[center]I'm gay.[/center]
I have not "come out" yet to my family, or even to my closest friends... except for one. He is/was my best friend, and things have been different between us ever since I told him. I thought that I could trust him, I thought that telling the truth to someone would make my life easier.

Today he told me that he could not,"lie to everyone" anymore, and that if someone asks him about me, he will tell them the truth. That could be today, or he might never tell anyone. Now I think that it would have been better just to lie to [i]everyone[/i] than to let one person know..

How important is the truth to you? Have you ever tried to keep something from the people you care about? Try to keep on topic, please...

-Shy[/size]

[Sara]

[size=1]I don't have a solid stand on the truth right now.

The raw concept scares me and intrigues me at the same time.

I love it, I hate it, I admire it, and I'm afraid of it.

It's foreign to me. Everything's shades of grey, which is difficult for me to admit. I've always been a Christian, and I look at the Ten Commandments, and other rules and laws, and wonder if they're really the right thing. They're supposed to be, but I'm not seeing them that way. Life's too real to search after far-away ideals.

On a different note: When you can't admit the truth about something to yourself, it's hard to admit it to others.

As far as telling the truth.. I would not tell the truth if it would hurt someone I loved. Just as I would not lie.

If it would 'ultimately' help them, that would be different. The situations I have in my head are complicated.

I would not tell the truth maliciously, and if were something of great import, I would not tell it without good reason.

It's a dangerous thing. A little bit of truth can do many times more damage to a person--socially and emotionally--than a hundred lies.

[Edit]

Shy, I will never see you any differently. You're somewhere between my big brother and a best friend. All I have to say is what I said tonight on AIM: I love you, and please don't let me lose you.

[/edit][/size]

[Mitch]

[color=red] All I have to say Shy, is this surprised me, but not in a bad sense. I still hold you as one of the most nice, and better people here at OB. Just don't be ashamed of what you are. Because, if you steep that low, then you're denouncing yourself, and what you stand, and should believe for.

Living a lie is very hard indeed. Just, I must tell you this, it won't cover up forever. It may come tomorrow, it may come in a long ways away--but eventually the lie will be up. I'm certain you're mad with yourself. Don't be. If this is what God made you to be, if this is what you [i]know[/i] you're to be, don't hide it, don't hate it, let it be, and let it be seen. Even if you'll be embarrased, even if your family may hate you, forever, or for a certain time, eventually you'll have to face that lie in the face, and let it leave you, marred and hurt.

So, I know this is hard, and it may be impossible, but the best thing is to let the lie disappear. Let the truth become the truth, not the lie the truth. Just get it over with, so you can go on with life.

I want to tell you this: I do not think of you any different, shy. You're still Shy, you're still the same person. It doesn't make you any different, only what you let effect you into thinking you're different makes it that way.[/color]

[PiroMunkie]

[color=indigo]The age old tale of hidden secret. It has never been the most intelligent choice to keep things hidden. It is only going to make the person who holds that secret suffer in their own torture. Especially if it is something they want to get out, which always seems to come up sooner or later because they want all the lies to stop. No one can lead two lives. One will always catch up to the other, and the person will find themselves in a bigger mess than they started with. [u]The Scarlet Letter[/u] by Nathaniel Hawthorne exemplifies this point rather well.

Lying only digs one a deeper whole. It is best to stop while you can still climb out.[/color]

[Semjaza]

I'm not going to get all philosophical on you about any of this...

To me, lying is not worth the time. You just wind up having to cover up the original lie with more lies, and by that time there is little turning back... Um, basically what Piro said heh.

In terms of something like this... About the only person I'd be scared to tell would be my stepfather for obvious reasons. But hell, it's who you are... If someone cannot accept it, in the end it's their problem.

Sometimes it's hard though... It's hard to tell someone something if you know it will hurt them, even if it is true. I had a hard time in the past figuring out what was the best to do... Lie, just tell someone or keep it to myself. Lying just never seems to be the best choice, it comes back to get you. I think telling the truth right out is generally the best thing... You might be scared to do it, but it won't be haunting you once it's finished. I've found that people that care about you will find out anyway... And for me, it usually turns out that they are more upset that you lied to them, or didn't tell them at all. It's better just to get these things out I'd say.

Anyway, I'm sure you have support from basically everyone here. Just do what feels right.

[Kent]

A true Muslim once said, "the truth will set you free."

I believe that, but I dont think that has anything to do with how easy things will be in making the decisions that must be made.

Personally I dont really know what to tell you in terms of advice. Secrets like the bigs we may be hiding, are the sort of things that never go away. We can put them on the back burner, but they are always there.

I hope you can manage to work through any and all of your problems.

But most of all, let this be a lesson about who you can trust, or even more over, what you can trust them with.

some people deserve all the trust in the world and some shouldnt be told anything of importance.

The decisions are all up to you. Good luck and I hope you make wise decisions.

[Mitch]

[color=red] Eh, this poem seems appropriate to you shy, se here, hopefully it'll help you with your decision:

[u][/b]Livie [/b][/u]
Living a lie
is like being boxed inside
insecurity becomes a partner
paranoia raptures upon you a
lineared line of step
a lie is living
watching as it all passes on by
strangling inside
seeing all the world crash into a pool of a hole
falling into that fall
as you waste it all
time is living
breathing in and out seconds of appointed pass
seeing the hand of the clock immune to itself
watching as you grow to rot
as the hypocrisy of the clock just stares you on by
and as you live a lie
it eats upon time
causing it to become a slow blur
watching as time turns into minutes becoming hours
years becoming decades
decades becoming infinity
infinity becoming beginning
it all flows in a straightened pattern
disengaging your will to accept
that you're living a lie
and insanity then becomes your time
holding you upon the ground
as time gets away with impunity
watching as your life ages and
grows moldy with that instilled insanity
growing into a tangle of webs
that grow deep from your mind
that's the sacrifice of living a lie
watching as time becomes
no longer an understanding
but a lie within every view
of stare from your cries
as you become but a secluded friend of time
watching as it eats upon you from the inside

Well, whatever you do, Shy, just know you're the same person.[/color]

[Darkness]

I'd lie to protect those that I love. A little white lie doesn't hurt anyone. Besides that, I like to stick to the truth. When you lie, it almost always leads to you telling other lies to support the original. Why start down that path if you don't have to?

[Transtic Nerve]

I am trying to relate here... being gay myself I can actually put myself into Shy's shoes... but also, I can't.... He's not out, I am... When I told my friends, I didn't and don't expect them to keep it secret from others because the responsibility of coming out tells that you are ready for anyone to know. HOWEVER, being FRIENDS (key word here) they also have the obligation not to do what will harm myself or their other friends. By telling others that you are gay can and probably will (depending on the environment you live in) cause some sort of damage or harm.

I often wonder how many people go up to my friends and ask them "Is Chris gay?" or whatever they may say. And I can't honestly think there have been any. I haven't heard many stories of people going to a friend of a gay person and asking if they are gay unless they, themselves, had some ample amount of proof, or in fact were gay themselves. Straight people tend to stay clear of that subject, either not wanting to know, or too scared to know. Plus it's very rude to talk about other people when they aren't around. I don't answer questions about my best friend when someone asks something that may be considered bad to them. It's not my place... just like it wouldn't be my place to say "yes" or "no" to anyone who asked if a friend of mine was gay. The simple and the ONLY answer anyone should ever use is "I don't know" whether or not you do or don't. There's a difference between telling the truth and hurting someone and if telling the truth will hurt someone who doesn't deserve to be hurt, then whats the use.

I always tell people that being gay is something personal that NO ONE else needs to know so if you don't want to tell someone then don't. They have no business in your private life. What you do and who you love doesn't effect them in any way, which is why I could never understand the bigottry of gay people. gay people do not pose any harm nor do they threaten the way of life for straight people. Hell we really don't want anything to do with your lifestyle as much as you don't want anything to with ours.

There is obviously a big line in truth. Your friend has no place telling others about you. that in the friend handbook if he failed to recieve that int he mail. And if he's not your friend anymore, it's in the respect handbook which he can get up his own a$s anytime he wants.

if it's not important to the person I'm telling then it absolutely doesn't need to be said. That is all.

[Juu]

[color=deeppink] [size=1]Hmm... Well I'm glad you told us Shy. ^_^
I never looked at you any differently, and don't expect us to look at you, treat you any different than you are now. It's okay to be gay, I mean, I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of... Just don't feel bad about it, and don't look at it in such a bad way. If your friends have a problem with you being gay, it's their loss of a great friend. Besides, they would be your friend for who you are. I think you should tell them, but when the time is right for you.[/color] [/size]

[Guest Hikaru Ichijyo]

:D Well I believe I speak for everyone when I say this, bah not to worry Josh/Shy. It takes a lot of guts to be honest about stuff like this and I'm sure this was really hard for you to say it takes guts to do this.

No one's going to think differently about you, I certainly don't you'll always be one of my best buddies no matter what preference you have ^_^ and if anyone gets out of line with you ^_^ I'll just have to kick their butts. ;)

As for secrets, everyone's kept something from people they care about it's human nature to do so you just don't want to hurt them or so. However sometimes it's better not to live a lie...sometimes that hurts more. Bleh I'm getting off topic.

Anyway I'm here for you Shy if you need to talk, you know where to find me.

[RicoTranzrig]

[COLOR=darkblue]It's better to get things out into the open, even though it might hurt...

I don't think it's bad to lie either if you think you're not ready to let out some things you hide.

If the truth does spread...things will change and you'll have to adjust to everything. I know there'll be people around that really care about you help you through those changes...

I still have secrets that I keep to myself and never tell to anyone, really personal stuff...I let the people I love in on them if they're really not understanding me.[/COLOR]

[Ravenstorture]

[COLOR=darkgreen][FONT=gothic]God this makes me angry. It shouldn't even be an issue, you shouldn't [i]have[/i] to lie, nobody should care about your sexual preference!!!! Why do people care about a decision you make about yourself? It's just opinions, their opinions about whether or not it's right or wrong, whether or not they think it's acceptable, your opinion on what you think is right for you - and everyone has the right to hold and express their opinions, but nobody has the right to inflict their beliefs and opinions on other people. It should just be another charecteristic of yourself - not something that suddenly changes you into a different person, a person that should be treated differently, avoided, disliked or whatever. Why do people have trouble accepting other people's choices? I hate the word 'should'. My friend is having the same problem. It should not be a problem at all. [/font][/color]

[Frankie]

AWW JOSH... erm i mean Shyguy

Your still the same old shyguy i know and you always will be.....

dont ever forget that kay?

... i have a few things i will never tell anyone.... its safer that way


BUT

The truth dident affect me... but the fact that you never told me....is the big bummer.... i mean you can tell me anything.... but then again

i have my oun secrets and i am keeping them.... and in sticking to it too.... cause......... i think its for the best..... i mean *deeep sigh* OH well.... anyways..... i have tried to keep some secrets but NEVER succeded.... this one im keeping though

not even the power of my brother shaun or my sister ginny could rip this secret out

[Manic Webb]

Like a few other people already said, I don't look at you any differently. You're gay. So what? It's not like you're a completely different person than you were last week. Your family might take a while to get over the shock, they might not. Everyone should have the same respect for you they always had.

I have secrets, myself. One or two of them might be worth telling someday, but some of them will be taken to the grave with me. In general, telling someone the truth all depends on whether or not the truth is something harmful or confusing or uplifting or will bring something to light. If the truth will make everything better in the end, go for it. If the truth will only make things confusing or strange for an indefinite time, then that's something you'll have to think about. It all depends on where you're from and what you know and who should(n't) know it.

[Frankie]

And telling deep secrets kind of.... also has to do with the will to tell

If your not willing to open up your heart and just let the truth flow out... its always difficult to tell anyone anything.. i have a dear friend with that problem... they just cant open up..


It depends on each persons heart.... the strengths and weaknesses of each heart differs from peron to person.... like... i have the heart of a worm..... cut me in 2 and i keep going.... O.O sounds wierd eh... but i make a point..... a wierd one but a point non the less..... i might not be strong hearted i might jsut be mush.... but i keep going... unless you put me in that lasar trap room on the movie resident evil that dices ..... then i might be in trouble....

other have the heard of a rino

it depends...from person to person...

and the will to tell

anyways

ill shut up now before i confuse all of you unless i alredy have

[James]

[color=#507AAC]Shy, I know what you're going through. All I can say is that what truly matters is who you are as a person; the way you treat others and the way you interact with people.

I think it's safe to say that most people here value you both as a staff member and as a human being. And this thread indicates that, thankfully, most of our community is pretty tolerant. The truth is, your sexuality or mine or anyone else's isn't going to change who we are. It won't suddenly make our personality different from one day to the next. It's just a private thing that you can choose or not choose to tell someone.

The only advice I can give is that you need to do this on your own time. Your friend has absolutely no right to tell others about you; that is very wrong. It would be like me knowing someone's private secret and telling everyone about it. It's unacceptable and ultimately it should be [i]your[/i] choice about how you tell people and what you decide to say.

Either way, we're all here for you. I think I speak for everyone when I say that we are proud that you could tell us on the boards here...infront of these people. Infront of friends. It's a sign that you trust the people here. And that's great; I think your trust has been rewarded by their responses.

I hope that this encourages others to be open and to realize that even if people in their "real life" don't want to understand, the people here are generally prepared to listen to you and to be fair.

I'm proud of you. ^_^[/color]

[Dan L]

[COLOR=darkblue]heh.. This post isn't going to make a lot of sense without a little bit of background information. A few of you know this, a LOT of you don't:

I worked at Sports Soccer, for about two years, and I built up a lot of trust there. I mean, a [i]LOT[/i] of trust. I was one of those people that got in with everyone (but didn't socialise much.. heh) and people just.. trusted.. And then about 6 months ago I started stealing from work.. a nearly a month later, I was dismissed (and rightly so). On the day that I was dismissed, I was in quite an emotional wreck, and my Mum and Dad took me to the church service that night, and I converted that night, as the service was very helpful to me.

That's a very shortened version of the thing.. there's a much longer version floating around on my PC somewhere..

So yeah, my points are:

1- My old work-mates don't know that I'm a Christian
2- My old school-mates don't know [i]any[/i] of the above

And I kind of wish I could tell them. So far none of my old school-mates have actually asked how I'm going on at work yet.. and if I ever do, I really hope I can tell them the whole truth.. but it's hard to do so. I've only talked to a couple of my work-mates since I left (and not very much at that), and they were actually more shocked that I'd do anything like that, than they were angry towards me. I really wish I could tell them that I'm a Christian, but I just knew them so long as a non-Christian that I just don't feel I can. Which is pretty stupid really.

Ultimately, I [i]believe[/i] that there is no place for lying. There's a place for not saying the whole truth, but not in a lying way. There's a place for keeping secrets, but not for creating a mistruth in order to do so.

however, despite the fact that that's what I believe, it is [i]extremely[/i] hard to actually put into practise.


Unfortunately, I think the whole "anti-homosexuality" thing came from my faith, or rather the various different misinterpretations of it. Ultimately, I don't believe anyone should be condemned.. but many Christians before me have had very different opinions towards that

I've always tried not to change my entire opinion of someone just because of one thing.. now I try not to change my opinions of someone massively, due to anything at all.[/COLOR]

[quote][i]originally posted by Sara[/i]

[size=1]It's foreign to me. Everything's shades of grey, which is difficult for me to admit. I've always been a Christian, and I look at the Ten Commandments, and other rules and laws, and wonder if they're really the right thing. They're supposed to be, but I'm not seeing them that way. Life's too real to search after far-away ideals.[/size][/quote]

[COLOR=darkblue]My personal opinion is that all the grey bits are up to you to decide.. bits that don't necessarily have a particular "You shall/Shall not do this" commandment. Essentially my view is "anything you personally believe to be wrong requires you to think the same things, in order to do it, as something that you know to be wrong. So, what you think is wrong, is just as wrong for you, as something that you know is wrong". So yeah.. essentially I think that you pretty much go by your own morals, and try to incorporate the biblical ones into them. I personally justified the Ten Commandments to myself, as in, I thought through each one and asked "why might God want us to do that", and so it's less following rules blindly, and more knowing why you follow them..

bleh.. I probably misunderstood the comment.. heh ^^[/color]

[Justin]

Well, my beliefs aside, I'll tell you this:

Whenever I converted to Christianity, I didn't think I'd be able to keep it up whenever it came time to go back to school. I figured that temptations and ridicule from my former friends would simply be too great.

However, somewhere along the line, I picked up an amazing strength to just push through what doesn't matter, and find what does. What matters to me may be different than what matters to you, but the same principle applies to both of us.

When it comes to Christians and homophobia; Gay people don't really bother me much. I hope I make that much evident. I'm not God and I don't decide who goes where and why. Thus, I try not to condemn people in my mind.

Be brave, Shy.

-Justin

[Spikey]

Well, to protect someone from grave danger, yes lie, but if it's something little, like you lie to your teacher that you didn't get your homework in, that's not good. I think that you should tell the truth, spread the word. So about little things, don't lie, but if it's pretty big, something could happen to you that could change your life, lie. The truth sometimes hurts.

[GinnyLyn]

[color=crimson]Is this why you were so quiet on AIM last night, Shy? Heh, well, I was sleepy, so I was too...but ANYWAY.

I'll be honest, like you have been, but I get the feeling it's gonna send me on the same problems it sent you--being scorned and abandoned for sharing. I don't agree with your decision, but, like James said, your sexuality isn't really what makes you you (it does a bit, and yes, that bit bothers me (please leave me alone about being close minded and junk, all of you--I'm not, but I'm not changing my faith to be "politically correct")). I still respect you as a person.

But that leads to the other issue we started to talk about before I had to leave AIM for the night. About intelligence. I won't divulge here, but you know what I mean. I just feel like I'm losing both you and Sara (not because of your truth, but because of mine)...[/color]

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GinnyLyn [/i]
[B][color=crimson]I'll be honest, like you have been, but I get the feeling it's gonna send me on the same problems it sent you--being scorned and abandoned for sharing. I don't agree with your decision, but, like James said, your sexuality isn't really what makes you you (it does a bit, and yes, that bit bothers me (please leave me alone about being close minded and junk, all of you--I'm not, but I'm not changing my faith to be "politically correct")). I still respect you as a person.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

I don't think you're closed minded (just thought I'd point that out first).. but I think it depends what you mean by "bother".. I mean, if you mean it bothers you as in the way that you worry for him, then I agree, purely because my beliefs are the same as yours.. but if you mean it bothers you, in the way that you'd consider hima lesser person, then I think [i]that[/i] would be wrong, not just politically but as a Christian, too..

So yeah.. I honestly think you actually didn't mean the second kind of "bother".. And I just thought I'd point that out before anyone jumps on that comment ;)

EDIT: When I say "honestly think".. what I mean is "there is no doubt in my mind", not "correct me if I'm wrong".. heh ^^

[James]

[color=#507AAC]I'm sure she didn't, Deus. Being bothered about someone's sexual orientation in that way is no different from being bothered about their skin colour or their eye colour. It's a part of who they are...and in general terms, it frustrates me how the world at large can still discriminate based on these basic things.

I think Ravenstorture put it best, when she expressed her own disapproval at that sort of thing.

Anyway, as I said...it's great that Shy can open up to us and express himself. Same goes for you, Deus. Your story was something that I didn't expect...but I don't think any less of you for it. I think more of you because of your honesty.[/color]

[Phantom]

Not to sound indifferent but, ...oh well.

Parta life, even if rejection hurts..dont give up...Glad you came here for help anyway...good luck.

[vegeta rocker]

Well, first of all I can kind of relate not to you shy but your friend. I have a friend who is gay and people constantly ask me if he is. Of course I am faced with the conflict inside thinking should I tell the truth? Or should I lie about it? It's really up to the person it is about. So I talked to him and he said to say that I didn't know or that it was none of their business. But then I would start thinking but if he is that way why be ashamed of it? I understand better now why he is so insecure about people knowing but I still think that he should be more open about it. People are all diffrent so we all shouldn't judge. Maybe I shouldn't say insecure, i mean they don't want to be seen in a diffrent light for such a minor thing.
Some people worry so much about being gay that they forget that isn't all they are.
I know I haven't been here for the longest time and I don't know anybody here as well as I would like, but I know from my short time here that you, Shyguy, are a good person. You should do what you think is best, and besides it truly is no ones business.