Gaming Too strong?

[Break]

[size=1][color=crimson]I just got the Gilded Sword on MM yesterday (after playing.. all day :P) and it's 4x more powerful than the Kokiri Sword, right?

I've fought a Garo with a Kokiri Sword, and it was really fun (well I thought anyway). But after getting this sword, it's kinda.. boring, because it's just one hit with the Gilded Sword and you've beaten them.

And also, I really [i]love[/i] hacking Gibdos to peices with the Kokiri Sword, but it only takes three hits now, and it's not fun anymore. :(

So does anyone else find that stronger weapons kind of take the fun out of Zelda?[/size][/color]

[James]

[color=#507AAC]Doesn't that sword actually break after too many uses?

Edit: Oops...that's the razor sword. Bleh.[/color]

[Break]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#507AAC]Doesn't that sword actually break after too many uses?[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=crimson]Noo, that's the Razor Sword that breaks after you use it 100 times. I'm talkin' 'bout the Gilded Sword, the one you make with the Gold Dust..[/size][/color]

[Bremma]

Well, if you like to be overly challenged, it does... but I dont mind it too much. Spoiler!! If you havent Beat MM yet, you may not want to read this... it involes the final battle.

[spoiler]What is almost too cheap to use is the Feirce Deity Mask in the final battle. It takes no time to beat Majora... Later I'm going to try to beat Majora with normal Link.[/spoiler]

[GinnyLyn]

[color=crimson]While stronger weapons DO take the fun out of the game eventually, it's still nice to have them. Methinks the Deity mask is more powrful that the Gilded, and takes even MORE fun out of the game (which is why you can only use it in boss areas).

The Biggoron sword could also be guilty of this, but you have to go through a lot of stuff to get it--which is hard if you don't know how to do it. And the Gilded Sword itself is a trifle heart-attack-causing hard to get, because you cut your time so freaking close...once it is in your possession, though, blah....

One also remembers the L4 sword from Link to the Past, but considering how things get stronger as you go, your weapon is only rising to the occasion by matching up with the areas you are going to (did that make sense?).

In common RPGs, like the FF series, it'd be like picking up some kick-beep weapon (Masamune, Ultimate, whatever), then going back to the L5 enemy areas and complaining because they keel over as soon as you touch them. Mark of the good warrior is being able to handle anything in your way.

Ok, now I'm just rambling. :bluesweat[/color]

[Break]

[size=1][color=crimson]Yeah, the weapon kinda progresses with areas in the game. But, in MM you can get the Guilded Sword as soon as you finish the Snowhead temple pretty much (which is quite early in the game). So once you get to Ikana (as I've said) beating stuff their is [i]pie easy[/i].

I stronger weapons are better for defeating stronger bosses/monsters, but I think there should be an option to switch between swords on MM, like you could on OoT, well only between two swords really.

Ah.. but the thing about FF, is you raise power as well as getting new weapons, you don't raise levels/power in Zelda, just get more powerful stuff. And also in FF you switch between weapons. [/size][/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]You know, I would think the same thing, except that there are so few enemies in Majora's Mask that it doesn't really bother me, lol. I mean, there were more even in OOT. At least there you'd run into some Lizolfos or Stalfos every now and then in the dungeons, but in MM, it's mainly only a few little weak enemies, a miniboss or two, and then the boss. About the only areas where this isn't true is the area in between Termina Field and the Southern Swamp at night, and up in the mountains in the day, because there are Wolfos and White Wolfos. (And maybe the part of Termina Field where you find Dogongos, but those things are really easy to beat with the Kokiri Sword, too, it just takes awhile). And those places are part of the stinking [i]overworld,[/i] for crying out loud!

Oh, and by the way, the Gilded Sword is three times as strong as the Kokiri Sword, not four. I think the Great Fairy's Sword is four times as powerful, though.[/color]

[Break]

[size=1][color=crimson]I think the reason for not many enemies in MM is that it is a more interactive game. You need to interact with the people, more than defeat bosses, etc. So I am thinking now, why did they even put strong stuff in it if all the monsters and stuff are pretty weak?[/size][/color]

[MysticBabe]

er...what does the guilded sword have to do with end? i've beaten the game both ways, with the mask and without the mask, i don't think you absolutly need it, unless there's some secret you guys aren't telling me...

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]True, MM does have more of a focus on interaction with other characters, but I still don't think that's any excuse. I mean, OOT had the trading sequence, and you had to do other stuff with people, too. Sure, maybe not quite as much, but still a decent amount. The Oracle games have even more interaction with other characters, while still even having eight dungeons... And Oracle of Ages is supposed to be more focused on puzzles than combat!

I dunno, maybe the N64 just can't handle lots of enemies. OOT and MM both have less enemies than any other Zelda game, so maybe that's it.[/color]

[Break]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Desbreko [/i]
[B][color=indigo]I dunno, maybe the N64 just can't handle lots of enemies. OOT and MM both have less enemies than any other Zelda game, so maybe that's it.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=crimson]lol, yeah that is probably it. I wouldn't really know because I don't have any other games apart from OoA/S and LA. I guess there is a pretty big difference between LA and MM/OoT, lots of enemies in LA, probably the same in LttP, right?

I guess you're right about the overworld in MM, I mean.. Termina Field (after playing it again yesterday :P) there are only a few Chuchus in the place leading up to the Southern Swamp, maybe 5 Leevers in the little sand bit near Great Bay, few Dodongos (very easy to beat compared to OoT oO) near the Snowhead bit and some Real Bombchus/Blue Bubbles near the Ikana Canyon.

Now, I'm sure that on LA there are at least 3 enemies on each screen in the Ukuku Prairie, so there I can see the point of a stronger weapon (which isn't really much stronger than the LV1 sword.. strange). But in MM they just should have left you with the Kokiri sword through the whole game.. hee..[/size][/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]Heh, if you want to see a lot of enemies, try playing the original The Legend of Zelda. On most screens, there's at least (I really mean, [i]at least[/i]) five enemies--and that's for both the overworld and the dungeons. It's definitely one of the hardest games in the series, second only to Zelda II, unless you want to spend hours sitting around leveling up. Even with the Magical Sword, the sword that's three times as powerful as the sword you start with, a blue Wizrobe takes four hits; red ones take three hits.

I think, in Majora's Mask, the reason they put in the sword upgrades was to make the boss and mini-boss fights easier. While yes, they're just all the more easier than other boss fights from some other games in the series, they won't take forever to beat just because of the number of hits you'd have to land with the Kokiri Sword. I don't know about other people, but I don't want to spend 10 minutes fighting a boss, doing the same thing over and over and over again. (Usually the fights consist of figuring out how to hit the boss, then just avoiding an attack, hitting the boss when it's vulnerable, and then dodging more attacks until you can hit it again).[/color]

[GinnyLyn]

[color=crimson]Scary thought, Break. Heh--fear my tiny sword! *tiny swing!*
*Giant Boss grunts in bored anger at you for scratching his favorite talon*
:eep:

Anyways, the largest concentration of enemies in [i]Ocarina[/i] (and the one that drove me nutsy) is the future Market--all the Redead standing around. Unless you know the trick to beating them, they are annoying (and painful) as all getout.

(WHOO! 1900 post!)[/color]

[Break]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GinnyLyn [/i]
[B][color=crimson]Scary thought, Break. Heh--fear my tiny sword! *tiny swing!*
*Giant Boss grunts in bored anger at you for scratching his favorite talon*
:eep:[/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=crimson]Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. :mrt:

I mean, call me psychotic, but isn't it fun to repeatedly hack away at a boss or strong monster, every time to hear to hear the thing scream in pain and flash with red (which means it got hurteded). I'm probably the only one here that thinks that is fun. oO;

Ha! The Market in the future Hyrule is [i]so[/i] cool/fun. It is good just going around and hacking all the zombies a few hundered times then running out to the field.. hee..

And 'Breko, TLoZ sounds like good fun then! ^_^

(WOOHOO! 2576th POST!) ;)[/size][/color]

[GinnyLyn]

[color=crimson]*laughs at Break* Mock ME, will you? Heh! ;)

And there was always the Hyrulian field at night, if you wanted the mosnters to keep chasing you; or the Hyrulian field in the day, and the giant plants would chase you. BTW, how DO you kill those things? I could never seem to hit their weak spot--I'd always get slashed by the sharp root thingies first. >.<[/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]To kill a Peahat, you have to hit the little pointy root on their underside. To do this, run around it until you get to the side of it where the spinning blades are pointed up in the air, and not down along the ground. Then just hack at the root with your sword, shoot it with arrows, whatever you want. Just don't attack them at night, because they'll just send out a swarm of little Peahats that'll chase you. You can dodge or block them by just facing them and raising your shield, though.

And Break, sure, I like having the boss fights take awhile, because the boss takes lots of hits... Just not a fight that lasts 15 minutes, where you have to land 30 hits doing the same thing over and over again, with no variety. That, I think, is too long, and becomes boring. (And it seems the bosses in MM, the ones that you use your sword on anyway, would be like this, if not for the Gilded Sword).

Now maybe if they made the fight more varied, they could make it longer. They did that with the end fight with Ganon in LTP. You hand to land upwards of 25 hits with the most powerful sword in the game just to get to the point where you could stun him with your sword, and then you had to shoot him with a few Silver Arrows. What made it fun the whole time, though, is that Ganon changes his attacks, gets quicker and better at dodging, and even turns the lights out and becomes invisible until you turn the lights back on (by lighting some torches in the room). All of that combines to make the longest, hardest, and funnest boss fight in the game.

If, however, they had made Ganon just follow one set pattern of attack, only using one or two different attacks throughout the whole fight, yet still made it so you hand to land the same number of hits, it would seem like the fight would just drag on and on. It would get boring dodging the same couple attacks over and over and over again.[/color]

[Break]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Desbreko [/i]
[B][color=indigo]If, however, they had made Ganon just follow one set pattern of attack, only using one or two different attacks throughout the whole fight, yet still made it so you hand to land the same number of hits, it would seem like the fight would just drag on and on. It would get boring dodging the same couple attacks over and over and over again.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=crimson]Ooooh that boss battle sounds fun, how long did it take you to do the first time?

The fight you described *points at quote* reminds me a bit of the end battle between Ganondorf (and later on Ganon) in OoT. It's sorta the same thing over and over again, and the battle against Ganon is even more basic (in my opinion). All they do is make you use the Megaton hammer as a twist, that's what I used anywho.[/size][/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]Yeah, it seems that some of the boss fights in the two N64 Zeldas are a tad simpler than in the others. On the other hand, though, most are more complex. (You also have to keep in mind that that was the end boss in LTP). You'll notice that the fights with Ganondorf and Ganon in OOT weren't incredibly long, though. (Well, okay, the fight with Ganondorf was long, but part of that was just because you had to bat the stupid fireballs back and forth over and over again. Though if you're good, you can get him with one within a couple times of it going back and fourth between you and him). The fight with Ganon, though, didn't take me long at all, if you don't count the cinimatic bits where you're not actually in control of Link.

Oh, and the first time (and every other time I fought him, really), Ganon in LTP probably took a good five minutes. That may not be long compared to some boss fights in the N64 games, but a [i]lot[/i] happens in those five minutes. It seems like longer, too.

I think part of the reason why the boss fights in the N64 games take longer is because there are times when you'll just be sitting around, waiting for either an opening to attack, or to dodge an attack. (King Dodongo, the boss of the Dodongo's Cavern in OOT is a good example). That and scoring a hit may take a couple steps. (Such as in OOT, in the fight with Bongo Bongo, where you have to shoot the hands and the main body, and then actually do damage to it).

So yes, the boss fights are actually longer, but they don't seem incredibly long, because you don't have to score tons of hits on the bosses. It seems like in the other games, you'll have to score tons of hits on a boss to defeat it, but you can also hit a boss at almost any time during the fight. In the N64 games, you may have to work more to score a hit, but you don't have to score as many hits. So, even though it actually takes longer to beat the boss, it doesn't seem like it, because it's paced well enough so that you don't get bored from doing the same thing 20 times.[/color]

[Break]

[size=1][color=crimson]Yeah.. I'm afraid I found that a lot of the bosses in OoT were pretty repeatative..[/size][/color]

[Semjaza]

I thought the boss fights in OoT were extremely easy compared to the Zelda games before it...

I always thought the point of those stronger swords was mostly so you could kill the basic enemies quickly, because after a while it gets annoying having to kill all sorts of basic enemies on your way to some place. At least to me... lol.

[Desbreko]

[color=indigo]In most of the games, I think that is mainly what the sword upgrades are for. But, in MM, there are so few basic enemies that you don't really need it for that so much. Either the enemies in MM are already few and weak enough that you can already kill them easily with the Kokiri Sword, or you can just run right past them without a problem.

And yeah, the bosses in OOT and MM do seem easier to me. I hope The Wind Waker corrects this problem that the 3D Zelda games seem to have.[/color]