Politically Correct?

[Sandy]

I heard from the news that in Great Britain they are trying to legislate that the word "homosexual" would be added to a some kind of list of offensive words, for it has been said to be offensive to... well, homosexuals.

This is very confusing to me. Well, we all know how some big insults of today have been perfectly normal in the past, like the words "negro", "gypsie" and such. But should "homosexual" be added to this list?

My opinion is that "homosexual" is by no means an insulting word -it just describes the sexuality a person has, very similar to heterosexual, both coming from latin.

I don't like separating people under titles, bu8t let's face it: there has to be SOME words we can use to say someone "fancies his/her own gender", or has darker skin, or is from different race. Yes, it would be IDEAL if we'd just stop defining each other by appereances, but hey, this is not an ideal world!

So, the reason I wanted to send this thread is to ask you if YOU have had to face any circumstances when some word you have used to describe a person has offended anyone. And also what do you think about the situation in GB? Am I totally wrong and "homosexual" really IS an offensive word. And yet more, has "being politically correct" gone too far?

I expect some good conversation, so please keep this civil!:D
(and mods, PLEASE don't close this before the discussion has been started, or else you'd be forbiddin discussion about such an important matter as this!)

[James]

[color=#507AAC]Homosexual is not an offensive word. It's a factual word. Just like heterosexual or something else.

To actually [i]legislate[/i] a word like that out of use is overzealous at best, in my opinion.

Words like "***", "queer", etc were all designed to be offensive...so they are different. They have no factual meaning, they're just insulting slang.

So yes, there's a difference here...and I think this is really majorly overzealous of Great Britain.

Still, I can't think of a time when I've used a specific word that has offended someone (maybe the word "fanboy" LOL). But yeah...I generally don't use stupid slang words when I talk to someone. Not only because they're often offensive, but because they aren't very intelligent.[/color]

[Dan L]

I can't really think of a decent reply.. meh.. it's early(ish).. or rather, I've been up since pretty early..

Anyway.. I have just enough brain power to give this proposed legislation a great big "What on earth are we thinking".. I mean, people don't go around calling people "homosexuals" in an insulting manner. The main reason is that the people who do use offensive words don't have the sheer brain capacity to remember a nice long word like that.

If anything, I think the government should focus more on the actual discrimination involved, rather than banning words. It doensn't matter how many words they ban, there'll always be more (and, as I said, people just don't go round calling people "homosexuals" in an offensive way).

"Here's an idea, how about we ban the word "heterosexual" from being said in a good way, because that clearly implies that any other sexual preference is bad, and therefore we are discrimnating by saying that." that's pretty much how stupid of an idea I view this proposed legislation to be..



ok.. so I was wrong, I could think of a half decent reply.. heh.. didn't think I had it in me..

[Red]

[quote]I heard from the news that in Great Britain they are trying to legislate that the word "homosexual" would be added to a some kind of list of offensive words[/quote]

[b]I think you heard wrong. The government are trying to make the word "gay" counted as an offensive word, for TV etc.

Let me explain. In English slang the word "gay" is used to describe a bad thing. So instead of saying "you're an idiot", a lot of people say "you're gay". This isn't true for all people who speak with a lot of English slang, it's just used by a certain group of people, or idiots as I like to call them. Of course a lot of gay people take this the wrong way, for good reason.

It's incredibly hard for me to describe this... you would really have to "experience" it for yourself.
Homosexual is in no way an offensive word, and I doubt highly that the UK government would try and list it as an offensive word.[/b]

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Elite [/i]
[B][b]I think you heard wrong. The government are trying to make the word "gay" counted as an offensive word, for TV etc.

Let me explain. In English slang the word "gay" is used to describe a bad thing. So instead of saying "you're an idiot", a lot of people say "you're gay". This isn't true for all people who speak with a lot of English slang, it's just used by a certain group of people, or idiots as I like to call them. Of course a lot of gay people take this the wrong way, for good reason.

It's incredibly hard for me to describe this... you would really have to "experience" it for yourself.
Homosexual is in no way an offensive word, and I doubt highly that the UK government would try and list it as an offensive word.[/b] [/B][/QUOTE]

Ahh.. so [b]that's[/b] what's up.. heh.. sorry.. I'm not very up to date with the news at the moment. I just assumed that sage was right in what he said..

but yeah.. in the uk, "gay" is used by a lot of people to describe something generally bad, such as:

Guy no. 1: What do you think?
Guy no. 2: It looks gay...

(guy no. 1 could be referring to many things, hence I didn't specify)

I never tend to say it myself, but it is a pretty common thing.. (among idiots.. heh)

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#507AAC]Homosexual is not an offensive word. It's a factual word. Just like heterosexual or something else.

To actually [i]legislate[/i] a word like that out of use is overzealous at best, in my opinion.

Words like "queer", etc were all designed to be offensive...so they are different. They have no factual meaning, they're just insulting slang.

[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red] Actually James, queer does have a factual meaning. The factual meaning of it is 'strange'....such as I might use it in the context of a sentence like this:

"It is certainly a queer day today, is it not?" or something of that sort.

This brings up another good point--most words are offensive because [i]people[/i] make them that way. A word alone cannot do anything without someone giving it a sense of meaning, of direction. That's why there's all this slang off of factual words which in their own right are not offensive.

Now, as for the question, do I believe gay to be a bad word. It depends upon where it would be to be used, and whom or what it would be aimed toward. In all honesty, I myself sometimes use that expression that something's gay when I really loathe something, so, I guess I'm an idiot, heh.

Anyways, gay is a very racial and prejudice word. Well, in its own right it isn't, but people make it that way. Thus, I do believe it would be possibly viable to place it on this so called list. I mean, if that's all gay is going to be used for--to cause pain and hurt--I believe that is a correct turn in measure.

As for homosexual, that word isn't all to offensive. It can be, that is, and only if, people make it that way. Otherwise it doesn't seem as strongly prejudiced as the word 'gay'.[/color]

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sage [/i]
[B]I don't like separating people under titles, bu8t let's face it: there has to be SOME words we can use to say someone "fancies his/her own gender", or has darker skin, or is from different race. Yes, it would be IDEAL if we'd just stop defining each other by appereances, but hey, this is not an ideal world![/B][/QUOTE]

There's certainly a time or a place though. Let's say you're describing a person to somebody so they'll be able to recognize them when they see them.

"Yeah he's also... um... his skin... it's... well... er... it isn't... the usual kind of Americans..."

"What do you mean?"

"Well, you know... it's like... not very... bright"

[Circ]

Banning the word "gay"?

it's weird when you think about the Gay Pride Festival :laugh: (Or whatever it is called in English, in French, it's "Festival de la Fierté Gay")

[Transtic Nerve]

I doubt they are banning the word GAY in it all. I bet they are banning the word "gay" used in a negative manner, like someone said "That looks gay" or "that game is gay" or whatever. I didn't know the brits used it on TV to be honest. America stay clear of that subject pretty much. We have gay related TV shows and movies, but we don't say "gay" or "queer" or "******" on TV in negative ways. We say queer sometimes, but it's usually to portay some negative characters or kids or something.

But yeah, it would be good if they did this. As far as negativity goes. i dunno british law that well, but if you ban this word, misewell ban every word that has negative connotation.

[James]

[color=#507AAC]Mitch, yeah...queer does have a meaning. But I was referring more to how it is used today. Over time, I think the meaning of the word has changed. And it really has become a slang term in a sense.

I really believe that you can't legislate intelligence or tolerance. The more you legislate, the more you are playing into the hands of those who are intolerant (as they will merely complain that you're stifling their creative speech and such).

The only way that these stupid phrases will change is through cultural/social change. Unfortunately, it takes a lot longer than a legislative change, but it's the only way to really ensure that people's behavior actually changes over time.[/color]

[vegeta rocker]

Having it banned would sure look nice on paper, but it would be hell enforcing it.
Almost any word can be turned offensive if you use it in a certain manner.

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#507AAC]Mitch, yeah...queer does have a meaning. But I was referring more to how it is used today. Over time, I think the meaning of the word has changed. And it really has become a slang term in a sense.

[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red] Heh, I'm oldschool man. To me it's always meant strange :)

Yeh, I see what you're saying. But that still doesn't cover up that it really means strange, heh. But yes, I know exactly what you mean.[/color]

[Kent]

This is a queer topic that I am gay to speak about.

"this is an odd topic that I am happy to speak about."

That should anwser the whole question of whether or not this is rediculous. Fact is, I dont like any political correctness. It ruins too many things. Gay, queer, they both have legitimate meanings and for that reason you could never ban them from being used. (plus come on, thought police, does that ring a bell)

I do want to stress how bad p.c. is in America, I dont live in the u.k. so I cant say for sure, but here it is out of control.

For example, did anyone hear about the teacher in southern calif. at a public highschool who was suspended and then taken off suspension because he said inflamitory comments that were backed by statistics. He said them, everyone got mad, he was suspended, everyone found out what he said was true and backed by fact, they brought him back to keep the issue from getting any attention.
Go ahead and ask me what he said, its no big deal if you ask me, but in light of not getting the same kind of crap as this teacher, Im not gonna say it until I am asked.

Any way, I also feel that P.C. has ruined several other things all over the country. It plays into the hands of special interest and does nothing to further the cause of the special interest besides give them one less thing to complain about. (wait maybe thats why this is being done, to shut some people up)

Either way, there is almost no arguement that is valid that can prove one way or the other that P.C. has beneficial or negative effects.

My personal opinion is that P.C. is wrong, its just a good way to quiet down someone or a hot issue while not dealing with the issue in a direct way.

The above example about the word "gay" for example. Why would you want to ban it, because people are making offensive comments? Well dont you think the second you ban "gay" another even more offensive one will be brought up and used offensivly. Ban that one too you say, another after that will come up. The whole time the real issue will be some sort of prejudice against "gays." So instead of dealing with that issue, lets just make special allowances for "gays," that way they keep quiet and the rest of us can just try and ignore them.
( I have no desire to ignore homosexuals, nor any prejudice for them)

So what is the answer Im getting at, DOWN with P.C. it does no good and only creates things like the term "hate crime." Im sorry maybe Im slow, but isnt any murder a crime of hate?

Oh well, I guess I should stop at that and see if anyone wants to know about that teacher. Sorry, but I just hate catering to special interest.

[Shinobi]

Ok, yeah, i didnt see this on my TV. But as Elite said and others, it is used as an insult, to people thata re stright, like *someone punches a boy, boy replies* "Mess off!, Yur Gay!". Also you it is used like TN said "that game is gay". I do use that as a term,just because i was brought up with it in school, and to be honest, Swearing is a part of life. In all honestly, i could not go a day without swearing *thinks on mabey he should get sponsered on "Red Nose Day" to last a whole day without swearin (Red Nose DAy = Comic Relief, a british day in which we raise money for developing contries, we all get to wear big red noses :D:D:D. On the internet,i have became prone to speak good english,because, well....people woulnt understadn a thing, e.g:

Me: "Awright, man. You cumin doon the swallie for a mick jagger?
Chum: "Naw"
Me: "Aw Whit! How nae and aw-i-'at? Am 'ur drivin anoll but am still gawin' cum own! That's pure Barry White by ra way!"

TRANSLATION!

Me: Hello, Would you like to come down to the Pub, for a pint of lagger?

Chum: No

Me: Arg, Why not? I am driving as well but i am still going down. That is shít!

....basicly


oops, i have gone sooooo off topic, anyway. Yes i do use "Gay" does that make me an idiot? Also there [i]was[/i] something i saw on TV it was about what people think the meaning of the phrase "a wánk" as in to have a...but nothing to do with gay, oh well.

[color=red][size=1]Again, Shinobi, [i]do not[/i] abuse the language filter. If you do it again, I will send you a ban warning.-Mitch[/color][/size]

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i]
[B]
The above example about the word "gay" for example. Why would you want to ban it, because people are making offensive comments? Well dont you think the second you ban "gay" another even more offensive one will be brought up and used offensivly. Ban that one too you say, another after that will come up. The whole time the real issue will be some sort of prejudice against "gays." So instead of dealing with that issue, lets just make special allowances for "gays," that way they keep quiet and the rest of us can just try and ignore them.
( I have no desire to ignore homosexuals, nor any prejudice for them)

[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red] Gokents, don't you think that's already known? I mean, it's basic human nature, prejudice is, everyone's been prejudice more than once. It's human nature. There's nothing wrong with at least [i]trying[/i] to topple it. Even if it may be hopeless, at least then they can say they tried. It certainly wouldn't make people stop magically being prejudice forever and after. Of course not. It would do the almost opposite I believe, it would cause the word gay to be used that much more as prejudice in its context.[/color]

[Solo Tremaine]

Going back to an earlier point, policemen in the UK aren't allowed to use the term 'homosexual'. Everyone else can. And besides, if they did decide to ban it, they'd have to ban all of the other far more offensive words that people use every day.

I don't think it's right to be politically correct all the time. Apart from the fact it gets really hard trying to remember what everything's called, it's all dictated by the wrong people. For example (and I don't mean to cause any offence to anyone here), you're no longer allowed to call people of dark-coloured skin 'black'. I thought this was a reasonable term, and I can't see any offence meant by it, especially seeing as the majority of people are called 'white'. But now we can't. The Government decided that those referred to as 'black' were being offended. The Government is an all-white committee bar one, and this was decided before he became an MP. So it's the white (and heterosexual) majority deciding what everyone else finds offensive, which isn't fair. People should be able to decide for themselves what they'd prefer not to be called. We can't even ask people for black coffee, politically correctly speaking. We have to have it 'without milk'.

It all depends on the context the word's used in, though. I've no doubt some people use these terms to offend (and 'queer', as said, has been driven into an offensive term, at least round here), and they're the ones who should be sorted out, not the language. banning the 'insults' won't stop prejudice. After all, who says anything when they're kicking someone in the head...

[vegeta rocker]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i]
[B]
So what is the answer Im getting at, DOWN with P.C. it does no good and only creates things like the term "hate crime." Im sorry maybe Im slow, but isnt any murder a crime of hate?
[/B][/QUOTE]


I couldn't agree more. Lifes too short for everyone to be P.C.

[Kent]

Mitch, whats your problem with my comments. I made a valid point that no one had made, and even if it was known by everyone, then why is this discussion even up here.

Do the things I say bother you,

And most of all, the point to the post I had put up that you qouted was not to show what will or may happpen with the subject, it was to avoid what you were saying.

Why do something just to say "well atleast we tried." Why not try to come up with a valid solution and not do any futile efforts in the mean time. That way, when our solution is finally at hand, we can use it and say "well, we took care of that."

I would rather put a valid solution into use, or spend my time coming up with one, than sit around and try to enact solutions that will only end up not working. I mean you said it yourself, everyone knows this stuff. So if everyone knows what I said, why bother doing it. Why waste your time trying something you know woulnt work, while you could be coming up with legitimate ways to deal with the problem. Ways that people arent sure whether or not they will work.

I dont mean to get on your case, (lord knows,you are a mod, and I dont like pissing off mods.) but why pick on me for saying something that was related to the topic and something that had a decent meaning behind it.

I mean, this topic was about taking P.C. too far, not curing the prejudices of the world.

Sorry to lash out so to speak, but I just dont stand back while people try to act like I'm a fool. If Im a fool for what Ive said on the boards, its not for what you qouted. (and I know you never called me a fool)

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i]
[B]Mitch, whats your problem with my comments. I made a valid point that no one had made, and even if it was known by everyone, then why is this discussion even up here. I mean, my point in this reply is, why pick on me.

Do the things I say bother you,

And most of all, the point to the post I had put up that you qouted was not to show what will or may happpen with the subject, it was to avoid what you were saying.

Why do something just to say "well atleast we tried." Why not try to come up with a valid solution and not do any futile efforts in the mean time. That way, when our solution is finally at hand, we can use it and say "well, we took care of that."

[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red]I have no problems with your points. They are valid, and they have meaning. I wasn't saying you were a fool at all. Do some of the things you say bother me? Certainly. Not in a bad way, no. It's just that some of the things you say are uneducated and based purely upon what you find factual, or not so. But, I'm also uneducated in some views, so I really have no right to condemn you in that action.

Now, as for why do it and say 'at least we tried'. Well, it is also human nature to try and make what little penance we can seemingly obtain for our errors, or errors of others. To tell you the truth, there really isn't anything better that they could do other than banning the word. I mean, there really isn't a way we could ever fully extinguish prejudice from our society. It's a part of our society in a twisted way, it's our human nature, our very contradiction upon our judgement.[/color]

[Kent]

Well although I do not recall say anything was "uneducated" I am actually quite happy with your reply.

You managed to quill my coral with you all the while not continuing a pointless argument.

My hat is tipped off to you.

I gotta say though, you do have a point, there really isnt much in form of legeslation we can do to fight these sorts of problems. I think the only thing we can do is the sort of things we can only do as individuals.

Only individual actions showing we are not ignorant racist will make things better, but due to human nature, for every bit of effort that one of us puts in, there is some jerk who can reverse it in the remarks of one or two words.

I guess the only answer to this is to acknowledge that there is almost nothing we can do as a group and all we can do is our own small parts as individuals.

[amibasuki]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mitch [/i]
[B][color=red]
...Anyways, gay is a very racial and prejudice word... [/color] [/B][/QUOTE]
[FONT=arial]prejudiced, yes; racist, no.

anywho, so I'll stay on topic, while I don't believe it's right to use the word 'gay' in the context it's normally used in (insults-wise), banning the word from television wouldn't really help anything. people would still say it anyway, just like people have brought up before. plus, it seems ridiculous not to be allowed to say 'gay' if the people on t.v. are actually using it to talk about gay people, gay rights, etc.[/FONT]

[Manic Webb]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Solo Tremaine [/i]
[B]For example (and I don't mean to cause any offence to anyone here), you're no longer allowed to call people of dark-coloured skin 'black'.[/B][/QUOTE]

Wow. Really? So what exactly do you call black people? To me, calling me "black" isn't an offense word unless you say it in an offensive tone of voice.

Words don't hurt. The people who use them do.

If a person prefers their own gender over the opposite, then that person is labeled "homosexual or "gay." Eventually, somebody comes along and uses the word "gay" (which is supposed to mean "happy) in a new, more offensive context. The word "gay" is not offensive. The context its used in might just be.

In reverse:
When refering to black people (any kind of person with dark skin), the "N-word" was originally used as an offensive term. Later, some rapper came along and decided to use it as an expression of companionship and love between African-Americans. This word went from a bad word to a less bad word.

There are no offensive words. It's the meanings we give the words that are offensive. I mean, isn't "Otaku" supposed to be an offensive word?

[Kent]

Well said, endymion. You put a very good context around the ideas that had been mentioned before.

I gotta say, whats with this idea of not calling afro-amer. black. Hey I dont mind it, if someone doesnt want to be called black, I woulnt do that. In fact, I dont even say that now, because Im never sure what is gonna be offensive. (some people take offense to anything)

My thing is just like a point made earlier, when are we gonna try and come up with some anti-racial slurs in the direction of anti-white stuff. (not that I really care, call me what you want, doesnt matter to me)

Personally the whole race issue bothers the hell outta me because my family came here from Ireland in the early 20th century. That being the case, none of the past racism in america is related to me or my family. So when people get on me talking about slaves, I cant help but feel for my ancestors who were slaves to the english.

I also just wanna say that I really do feel the only way to fight these problems are on an individual basis, I mean, make all the anti-racism groups you want, but those woulnt change any minds.

Its the actions of the individual we need to concentrate on, not the actions of the group. (which are often mis-represented by a small percent of the group)

I also wanna say thanks to vegeta rocker for catching that hate crime thing I mentioned. Thanks veg. rock.

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Endymion [/i]
[B]I mean, isn't "Otaku" supposed to be an offensive word? [/B][/QUOTE]

No... not really.

[Fall]

"Homosexual" sounds offensive in every way possible by the tone kids say it in at my school.

Adding it to that list thing won't do a thing. Some people say the "f word" a million times a day and it's an "offensive word". What makes "homosexual" different if it's added?

In my opinion, it's a completely stupid to use it as an insult.