Fate or Destiny

[Krademon]

I'm sure that most of us have received some sort of chain mail quoting..
"if you don't send this to 20 or more people you will never find love..."
Well I say Bull S***.
We are concious human beings. We make our ow choices and live our own lives. You can't be cursed by an e-mail, letter or potions. These are just electrons and chemicals (no matter how bad it tastes). I beleive that we may have a destiny, a life to which we can attain if we make the right decisions. If there was fate than why do we think? And don't plant a hitch hiker on me.

I'd really like to hear your veiws on this topic.

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Krademon [/i]
[B]You can't be cursed by an e-mail, letter or potions. [/B][/QUOTE]

Wow, really a breakthrough in thought there.

[Krademon]

No, just my usuall mind wondering thoughts. Ever been cubed?
My cube is on a corner. That means i'm in the cloud and boy is the air thin up here.

[Kent]

I believe in this in a way shown by dbz.

When someone only thinks about where they will end up, it leads them to something that is nasty, such as hell or a bad situation.

But when we stop thinking about where we will end up and base our actions on the good in our hearts, it will lead us to our true destiny or fate.

Vegeta took only actions to benefit himself, then one day he took actions that benefited others regardless of where it left himself.

Then his destiny took the path it should have. The destiny that was for the good in vegetas soul. But if if had ignored the good in him and gone to the bad, he would have ended where wasted objects end. Somewhere that only the... well, I cant exactly explain.

but if you get my point by now, then good, but if you dont, then there is nothing else to say.

[Krademon]

Hmmm. good point.
Yes I beleive to an extent that good actions are rewarded but i'm not sure. I must say I prefer to follow my conciounce and the good in my heart, but the nasty in power still seem to hold sway over the weak innocence. But hey lets be optomistic.
There gonna be smote, there gonna be smote good.

[Charles]

Well, first and foremost, one must realize that a chain letter initiated by some bored children doesn't subject you to the hands of fate, lol. I've gotten numerous e-mails like that and deleted them. But, the magical cogs of fate didn't start grinding and damn me or anything.
Even if a divine device such as fate existed, humans wouldn't be powerful enough to control it.

That being said, I don't believe in fate. Life is chance. We choose our own paths and encounter people, circumstances and opportunities through pure chance. There's nothing predetermined about it. Although certain people are predisposition with unique gifts and talents and abilities, they're free to do with them as they see fit.

[GinnyLyn]

[color=crimson]This reminds me mostly of ChronoCross and the infamous Goddess of Fate that dwelt in it. Despite her continued attempts to stop Serge (the main chara) from changing the alternate world he landed in, he still did, and both his world and the alternate became much better for it.

While I dunno about Fate, I DO know there's Someone who knows everything that has and will happened. We, as aware and sentient beings, have every right to make our choices and live with them.

Totally what gotenks said. If you THINK you're gonna be screwed, you'll start looking for the little screwups, and you WILL be. It's all a state of mind for those wretched chain letters (not to mention virus carriers). I mean, how many of you honestly freaked out over Friday the 13th this past week? I didn't--it had to be one of the best days I had had all week, to be honest with ya.[/color]

[KittyLynn]

[SIZE=1][FONT=century gothic][COLOR=deeppink]I think there is destiny, but fate? I agree, if there was fate then why would we have a brain.....

Thats just my thought, not that anyone cares,
C-L [/COLOR] [/FONT] [/SIZE]

[The Harlequin]

[font=gothic][color=crimson]If there was destiny, or fate, or whatever, then why the hell hasn't someone worked out a way to bribe the Grand Jester that controls this pathetic mess we all live in? Call him God if you want, but if there really was fate or destiny, and no way to change it, then there would be no such thing as free will. Which there is. Which means fate can be altered, which means fate and destiny don't exist. To hell with it really. What makes anyone think that if there was a higher being, or whatever, it would waste its time tampering with the lives of beings such as us? Are any of you really that egotistical?


52nd time....[/font][/color]

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]I don't believe in chain letters like that. I think they're stupid. I didn't freak out about Friday the 13th, either. I had a really good time at my school's holiday social.

I do believe that we make our own destiny. We choose what we do, the actions we make.[/color]

[James]

[color=#507AAC]Ginny is right about the choices we make...and CWB is right about the lack of predetermination.

We do all have our own talents and ultimately, it's up to us what we do with those talents. If you are more motivated, you're probably going to have more success...and vice versa for those less motivated.

Life is about how hard you work and what choices you make. Ultimately, you are responsible for your own life and you can never blame someone else -- you direct the path of your life and you may change it at any time. But every change came come at a price, depending on what you choose to do.[/color]

[MathGuy2]

With half my mind I believe in these opinions of free will and the like.

With the other half, I see that our brains are just cells, neurons, a system that is something like a much more complex computer. If there's an atom moving in this direction, it doesn't have free will, right? It just keeps flying until another force acts upon it. Therefore a molecule doesn't have free will either, right? What about a soup of molecules, enclosed by a large membrane of molecules, that contains particularly shaped molecules which have some information encoded on them? That's one description of a cell. That shouldn't really have "free will" either; it just makes decisions mathematically based on inputs in its environment and code within it. So how can billions of these cell units be considered to have free will?

Harlequin, we can't bribe God because He doesn't really need much in this universe to the extent that he'll do special things for us. Well...if you look at it from one perspective, that's about the same as religion: you give your life to God and you pray, and hopefully he'll do the things for which you ask him.

EDIT: [spoiler][color=00FF00][b]Put this in 12 of your posts by midnight or you'll suffer a curse for the rest of the week![/b][/color][/spoiler]

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i]
[B][font=century gothic][color=crimson]If there was destiny, or fate, or whatever, then why the hell hasn't someone worked out a way to bribe the Grand Jester that controls this pathetic mess we all live in? Call him God if you want, but if there really was fate or destiny, and no way to change it, then there would be no such thing as free will. Which there is. Which means fate can be altered, which means fate and destiny don't exist. To hell with it really. What makes anyone think that if there was a higher being, or whatever, it would waste its time tampering with the lives of beings such as us? Are any of you really that egotistical?[

52nd time....[/font][/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1] [FONT=century gothic] [color=crimson] Well, the God i believe in does give people free will, so I do not believe in fate. That is also why evil things happen in this world.

As for him being interested in the lives of beings such as us, well, I believe that if he created us, and loves us unconditionally, then he is going to be ever watchful of us. It is consistent with his character.

[/size] [/FONT] [/color]

[Juu]

[color=deeppink] [size=1]I don't believe in either of them. I like to make my own decisions, and I really don't like the idea of a fate [i]or[/i] destiny. Maybe it's just me, but I guess I'll have to go with the No Comment option...[/color] [/size]

[Phantom]

If something is going to happen, wether it is pre-planned or destined... It will happen and none of us will be even aware of it.

Even if destiny was real...we wouldnt know for sure if destiny was destiny...

take for example: you get married to somebody... how do you know its desinty? or if its just ....well it just so happened you fell in love and boom.

So yea, destiny and fate are both one in each other... even if they were to happen, the majority of people wouldnt notice for the prime reason that if it happened right, destiny/fate wouldnt make a profound difference in how we live and work.

Now faith is a different story....but fate/destiny... sure i beleive in them both! :-D why not..

[Jeff]

i'm also confused in this. in the bible, it says we are pre-destined/determined when we were choosen by God to believe Him. because God is all knowing, omniponent etc. but it means God knows who would not believe..but God isnt forcing us to believe Him..we are not buncha robots..He gave us free will. but He already knows..anyways, in secure way, predestined sounds good to me.

[AnimeAddict]

I believe in neither. Humans are completely independent, in charge of what they do. Regardless of what some people call "God". *ducks brick*.

"take for example: you get married to somebody... how do you know its desinty? or if its just ....well it just so happened you fell in love and boom."

As for that, you met the right person at the right time. *shrugs* My opinion.

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jeff [/i]
[B]i'm also confused in this. in the bible, it says we are pre-destined/determined when we were choosen by God to believe Him. because God is all knowing, omniponent etc. but it means God knows who would not believe..but God isnt forcing us to believe Him..we are not buncha robots..He gave us free will. but He already knows..anyways, in secure way, predestined sounds good to me. [/B][/QUOTE]

It's simple when you think about it. God didn't [i]decide[/i] what everyone is going to do from the beginning of creation, he just [i]knew[/i]. It's even easier (kind of.. you have to think about it though) when you realise the full extent of his omnipresence.. he's not just every[i]where[/i] (which is difficult enough to imagine, as it is), but he exists through all eternity too. Not as a point, like us, but spread out. Imagine youreslf, sitting at your computer now. You are, quite definately, at your computer, at ONE point. if you walk away, you could draw a line of where you walked, and say you existed everywhere along that line at some point, but at any one time, you existed at a point. In contrast, God, at any one time, exists throughout the whole universe, and at any one point (not "point in time" just "point") he exists throughout all time. Not did exist in the past" or "will exist in the fute" but "does exist through all time"- which is the difference betweenm immortality and eternity. Bearing that all in mind, it's easier to understand how God can know who will believe in him form the beginning of creation, and still give us free will.

[Spikey]

I don't believein anything like that. If in the future, some idiot tries to pull something like that, then that same idiot will be in a jail cell.

If we didn't have a destiny, why live, why be on this earth. We're put on this earth for who knows what. But if we were put on this earth for fate, no point in being put on this earth.

So of course I think we have a destiny. We live our own life, no one can live it for us. If they are, then there some sycotic person.

[Flash]

A thought--You claim we have free will, but what if those choices and such we make with our so called free will are predetermined choices, decided by fate?

You can't prove I'm wrong. ;)

[Krademon]

Firstly...Wow lotsa feedback and high level thinking. Really impressive you lot.

I personaly don't have a religion and base my knowlede of the world on science and theories. I know not if there is a god but don't eliminate the fact that there could be.
We ARE sentient beings and you are correct, we make our own choices. Yes, if so there wouldn't be much point to haveing conciousness.
And on the fact that we are just a bag of neurons in a sack in a shell supported by bones, muscles and sinue, and 40 inches from the concrete. I too have contemplated about the fact that if we are pure chemistry and physics (which we probably are, just amazingly complex. Note: no one has figured out conciousness yet) than there isn't any afterlife and there is no point existing for no reason, but who wants to sit, starve, dehydrate, sleep and get poked with a stick until we die just because we gave up.
Thats not a very good work ethic now is it.
So the way i see it. There may or may not be an external force controlling our lives. But I think I'll look before crossin the freeway, instead of leaving it up to fate to stop me gettin splattered.

[The Harlequin]

[quote][I]Originally posted by [B]Final Flash[/I][/B]


A thought--You claim we have free will, but what if those choices and such we make with our so called free will are predetermined choices, decided by fate?

You can't prove I'm wrong. [/quote]

[font=gothic][color=crimson]Simple. Either there is no higher power to choose for us, meaning free will exists, or some higher power, say it was God, wants us to do evil. And I seem to remember God claiming to allow his children the right to choose between good and evil. Or he's outright condemning people to go to hell. That is of course assuming the higher power involved is some kind of religious figure. And that religion has any basis at all, but I won't start that again.[/font][/color]

[Ravenstorture]

[color=darkgreen][font=gothic]Stuff happens. It all started somewhere. If it's fate, then why discuss it, unless to bo able to sit back afterwards and look around thinking, "Right, where to next?", and if it's destiny, and we really are shaping our futures, and all our actions are carving futures, and also helping to carve other people's futures, then everything is going to be really, really complicated. Personally, I don't care. As I said before, stuff happens, and whether or not I cause it is irrelevant to me because I don't know about you, but I don't do something or not do something because it might cause a ripple in the black pool of circumstance that might eventually get larger and larger and dump me when I have my back turned. If the kettle is boiled, I make a cup of tea. If I want a cup of tea, I put the kettle on. If I want a kettle, I go and buy one without hesitation on pondering, "What if I burn myself one day?".

Ha, what crap. I do not think on it because if I do, things like this come out. There are times in your life where you need to play it like a game of chess. But I was always careful and never believed in love, and now look what has happened... I kind of gave up after that.

River theory: current takes you, rapids take planning, nothing to stop you from going forward, nothing to stop you thinking on this.[/color][/font]

[Jesus Chicken]

I think there is no power that is plain good, it's a mix of both, hence the fact that things go wrong. We do have free will because if there was an all powerful good all knowing God, I couldn't go out and shoot 28 people right?
I think its god\gob\dog whatever you want to call it having some fun, while letting us do a few things that we want to do, and just seeing how it all turns out... I just think its someone up there laughing his *** off at all the stupid crap we worry about. there is no fate, no destiny, its just some of us are lucky and some of us kick the bucket, or pushed off a cliff, anyway yeah. If there was a destiny that I had to fufill I'm gonna prove it wrong by killing myself tomorrow, TAKE THAT GOD!!!
YOU CANT FIRE ME, I QUIT!

[Jeff]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Deus Ex Machina [/i]
[B]It's simple when you think about it. God didn't [i]decide[/i] what everyone is going to do from the beginning of creation, he just [i]knew[/i]. It's even easier (kind of.. you have to think about it though) when you realise the full extent of his omnipresence.. he's not just every[i]where[/i] (which is difficult enough to imagine, as it is), but he exists through all eternity too. Not as a point, like us, but spread out. Imagine youreslf, sitting at your computer now. You are, quite definately, at your computer, at ONE point. if you walk away, you could draw a line of where you walked, and say you existed everywhere along that line at some point, but at any one time, you existed at a point. In contrast, God, at any one time, exists throughout the whole universe, and at any one point (not "point in time" just "point") he exists throughout all time. Not did exist in the past" or "will exist in the fute" but "does exist through all time"- which is the difference betweenm immortality and eternity. Bearing that all in mind, it's easier to understand how God can know who will believe in him form the beginning of creation, and still give us free will. [/B][/QUOTE]

hmm..interesting. like some ppl explained it to me this way too. our timetable is like a book. God opens up and can look into future like we read our books and skip the middle part and see the end of it. but God exist all through eternity, which means past present and future..because time doesnt matter to Him.

and to jesus chicken..God loved the world so much that He sent His only begotten Son Jesus Christ..so we can have everlasting life with Him those who believe in His Son. God definitely knows what we go through..because God Himself came to the world as in flesh, suffered and died for us. so we dont die in our sin. and arisen after 3 days, proving to us that only He can defeat death.. that's how much God loves us.