Guest 9Eagle7Dragon Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 In our world of war, violence, attrocities, violence, murder, violence, dispair, violence, and um, yeah, violence, :grumble: the idea of total pacivisim sounds great, right? What really would happen if we all threw down our weapons and got along? This is mentioned in GW and Endless Waltz. It worked there. Could it work in the real world? Or is Marie right about the Endless Waltz thing? :angel: -what do you say? peace? :cussing: :modrod: :bash: :devil: :blowingup: :hippy: -I'm all for that. :therock: :angel:-okay, forget it. :beer:-Hear hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domon Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 :therock: Yeah, total pacifism [B]is[/B] possible, but its human nature to fight, and therefore even if there was total pacifism there would still be an aggressor hiding and waiting to attack us. So Marimea Barton was right with "The Three Beats of War, Peace, and Revolution will continue on forever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 9Eagle7Dragon Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Perhaps as long as there are stupid people there will be war. I'm not saying the solgiers are the stupid ones, just the leaders. To be fair, not [u]all[/u] world leaders are stupid, and this [otakuboards] would be a bad medium at the time to express my (extreemly extensive) political views. As long as world leaders make bad decisions, and by human natrue they will, there will be this Endless Waltz. But still, it is possiple, in a certain cooprative scenerio, but just like communisim, could it work as well in practice as it does on paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutlawStar Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 No, peace on eath is just a dream. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but I know it would never work. Even if you put the worlds smartest people in charge of the world, as long as people have there own opinions and some power war will always be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasan Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Total pacifism is nothing but a notion brought up by people who have nothing better to do than sit around and daydream.:therock: :grumble: Not that I'm not all for it... But it's more likely that they're gonna find a cure for the common cold before they find a way to bring total pacifism to the world. :grumble: Mariemaia was right. :demon: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Uh... No. I believe total pacifism is not possible. Look at your examples. Even in them, the main gundam pilots had to fight to protect the innocent. Pacifism has its place, just not total pacifism. Gundam is an excellent example of why pacifism doesnt work. Every time the earth is just about peaceful, the un-provocked attacks of the pricipality of zeon come up. Pacifism in a complete and total way only ends up in helplessness and the in-ability to defend ones self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark-clown Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Pacifism couldn't work in our world, as there is to much hate in the world for there to be JUST peace, (take sep 11th, i mean come on how many ppl wanna kill the person who did it?) in the gundam world some1 would of just stud on him or something, when it comes down to Pacifism the MUST be some1 to protect it and to protect something there ends up being vilance or wars, so Pacifism only slows downs mans need to cause pain to some1 else to make tham feel good/better about how they are,or to prove a point or just because they want to, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasan Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dark-clown [/i] [B]Pacifism couldn't work in our world, as there is to much hate in the world for there to be JUST peace, (take sep 11th, i mean come on how many ppl wanna kill the person who did it?) in the gundam world some1 would of just stud on him or something, when it comes down to Pacifism the MUST be some1 to protect it and to protect something there ends up being vilance or wars, so Pacifism only slows downs mans need to cause pain to some1 else to make tham feel good/better about how they are,or to prove a point or just because they want to, [/B][/QUOTE] Wow. :eek: I never thought of it that way..... You're a genius!!!!!:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark-clown Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 :excited::blush: thanks very much lol i'm only 16 aswell, it's just what i thort about it what do you think of Pacifism :genius: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasan Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I really don't believe in total pacifism.... Yet again..... I'm also a total pessimist.(made official by my friends, and enemies) But really, Mariemaia was right. "Life is an endless waltz... The three beats of war, peace, and revolution." And, as my dad says: "There could be total pacifism in the world, if everyone decided to play by the same rules." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 9Eagle7Dragon Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 There will allways be weapons, there will allways be battles, there will allways be war. I remember a quote from the Scorpion King: "No kingdom lasts forever. Yours will find the same fate..." Or something to that extent. How disapointing to know that human nature can't be altered, except with cloneing and bio genetics and why the heck not create a new race of people in the far future to live on some distant planet away from the war on Earth? With advanced genetics maybe we CAN altar that... Could that work? Sounds like something from the book "The Giver." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark-clown Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 9Eagle7Dragon [/i] [B]There will allways be weapons, there will allways be battles, there will allways be war. I remember a quote from the Scorpion King: "No kingdom lasts forever. Yours will find the same fate..." Or something to that extent. How disapointing to know that human nature can't be altered, except with cloneing and bio genetics and why the heck not create a new race of people in the far future to live on some distant planet away from the war on Earth? With advanced genetics maybe we CAN altar that... Could that work? Sounds like something from the book "The Giver." [/B][/QUOTE] -if we made a new race of people then the "people" we send wont be real people, just things that look like people that don't have the basic needs for liveing (eg, some thing attacks them and they do what?? say "plz don't kill me" or "can we talk about it?") it's like i said you need some1 to protect them and on a different planet there might be something stronger than the protecter, ye it would work but for how long? i mean how many cartoons have some1 that trys to save a peacefull planet and then theres lots of death and so on, good point anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 9Eagle7Dragon Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Well, true, but maybe the one's who created them could defend them. Set up a huge planitary blockade or something... It could work, after all, it's a hypothetical situation! [i](Note: I'm refering to the fact that the hypothetical situation could work, not the one tried in real life.)[/i] Still, read [u]The Giver.[/u] It's a great novel, if you think about the lessons learned from it. Other than that, it's a boring a book so just look on to some book sites for it. Read the description and some spoilers the people send in. I forget who the author is. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sarasan [/i] [B]I really don't believe in total pacifism.... Yet again..... I'm also a total pessimist.(made official by my friends, and enemies) But really, Mariemaia was right. "Life is an endless waltz... The three beats of war, peace, and revolution." And, as my dad says: "There could be total pacifism in the world, if everyone decided to play by the same rules." [/B][/QUOTE] Well, it seems I'm the pessimist here,:rolleyes: but the quote was: "HISTORY is much like and endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever." -Marie Maia Kush Renada sorry, but it's like I allways say, "give props where props are deserved." :toothy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Total Pacificsm is an ideal. Same as an ideal of the perfect guy/girl. Its a great ideal and god it'd be great if it was possible, but lets face it, it isn't. Gundam Wing and Endless Waltz touched on this fact. Yes there was a time of pacifism between GW and Endless Waltz (Forgot years.) but humans are to greeded for it to be maintained. Someone saw (In this case the Barton foundation) that the universe was vulnerable and decided "Hey lets take it over." And the great quote by Marimea proves it. Sadly its true, there will be times of peace, there will be times of war, and their will be times of revolution. The simple fact is in order to have peace you must force it upon people. The only way to do this is war. So therefor it wouldn't be peace.... So in other words Total Pacifism in reality is an oxymoron! [b] EDIT: (By the way not trying to be all high and mighty but 9Eagle7Dragon don't double post, just edit your first one ;))[/b] [size=1][b][color=darkblue]I edited it for him. -Shy[/color][/b][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SpidahX Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Well, Eagle Dragon, as you can see many people do not see Total Pacifism as a political vision which has much credibility. The reason to this, as someone already pointed out, is that it is an ideal that cannot work in this human society. As we've seen in previous ideological conflicts involving Marxism, some leaders try to twist this ideal of a world to suit their needs. There are also groups of resistance that use Marxism doctrine to lead people to rebellion against Aristocrats, Bureaucrats and rich people for justice, only to replace the government... but they do not achieve what they were claiming because many results end in disasters. On the other side, some people do not like changes and certainly do not like revolutions because they want to stay in power. They will do anything, even wage wars on foreign countries or aid/finance oppressive groups or dictators to maintain the order they have seeked. So as you can see, all is about power. Even when you fight for justice, ultimately the hard tasks of maintaining power will end up on your hands. But, there is another factor extremely related to pure power : M O N E Y . European and European-influenced societies are totally dependent on money. The other countries simply must follow or suffer the consequences (third-world countries) of the market laws. Capitalism economics have brought such inequalities that it is impossible to achieve total pacifism. You could also talk about racism... but, personally, the major factors are not about racism.. sure there is a lot of hate... but this hate mainly comes from the inequalities (eg. Israel-Palestine, Salvador, etc.). though some people will develop a tendency of hating all that is different or making racial distinctions, they are not part of a sufficient portion to be entered in the conflicts. Same thing as for the conflict in Ireland. People think it is all about religion.. Protestants vs. Catholics. . yes, there has been an endless hate in history between the two groups, but ultimately it's about power, economics and little about way of life (culture). People interpret it this way because it's the easiest way to blame it on your enemy. Generally speaking, if you put a Protestant and a Catholic, or a Muslim and a Jew in the same room without telling them that the group they represent has an advantage (economic, politic (power), geo-politic, etc.) over the other.. well I don't think they'll kill each other. They might have religions views that differ (now putting religious extremists is another story) but they will ultimately learn to live in peace. Now, I speak of this because in the Gundam Wing series, it seems that all nations have made peace. Wars and political/economic conflicts are over between countries. Now that is highly unlikely to happen on our mother earth. As long as there will be inequalities (eg. a supreme power or empire ruling over others and impose their views), there won't be peace. Nobody's perfect... even the "great" nations or administrations have caused "great" sufferings and destruction. From the beginnings of human life, peoples conquered other peoples.. it is the way of human evolution. Unfortunately, less-developed peoples (restrained by their environmental area) have suffered and some were extinct... now we can change that because we need to learn from history. But I guess that some will never learn..... and will continue to go the hard way.. "cough" Bush.. "cough".. my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lain Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Total pacifism works well in theory...kinda like communism. Unfortunately the system would crumble if put into practice in the real world. Why you might ask, because people have an uncontrolable thirst for power. As long as one person desires power, there can never be true peace. If you can remove the need for power, then total pacifism might have a chance of working. On a related note, if its playing at a theatre near you, go see Equilibrium. It has gotten absolutely no advertisement and is playing at a select few theatres so I thought I would put in a good word for them. They offer up a whole different approach to peace on earth in a post WWIII setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SpidahX Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Well, extreme thirst for power originally came out from large densely popuplated areas sharing the same culture or way of living. When you take for example, small tribes.. there are some leaders but their role is fairly diminished compared to a European society. The system in which they live in is quite egalitarian. Everyone works on hiw own and must provide food for their children. And the people aren't "less intelligent" than any other human being. The only thing is that their focus is different than ours. Their isolation can only be interrupted by the arrival of conquerors that come from dense populations or civilizations. So if Pacifism in a tribe can work.. how could it work in densely populated 'civilizations' ? Too late I say.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 9Eagle7Dragon Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Well, something that just occured to me, a good example of humanity's thirst for power is the Lord of the Rings series. Was JRR Tolken on to something? When the ring was finally cut from sauron's hand, who was to pick it up? A human. Who had the chance to destroy it? A human. Who kept the ring instead of ending what would be now another endless waltz? A dwarf...? No, no, a human. And how many times during the series does a human try to take the ring in order to get that power? Or the Nazagaul, who took the 9 Rings of power without thinking twice? So many refrences... So little time.... As a whole, humanity's greatest deadly sin (I'm reffering to the 7 deadly sins of course) is Greed. If people are put in any one place of political power, they will at least feel the temptation to manipulate it to their own agendas, therefore making such ideoligacal goverments impossiple. Also, I found this funny little thing in a classroom poster on different kinds of Gov't. Check it out: Fuedalisim: You have two cows. You milk both of them and your lord takes some. Communisim: You have tow cows. Everyone in the village helps milk each other's cows, and you all share the milk. Russain Communisim: You have two cows. The gov't takes both. Socalisim: You have two cows. The gov't takes them and puts them in a big barn along with all the other cows, and gives you some of the milk. Berucartic Socalisim: You have two cows. The gov't takes both cows and gives them to a chicken farmer and gives you her chickens. Beuracracy: You have two cows. The gov't shoots one, milks the other dry, then pours it all down the drain. Then you have to sign complicated forms accounting for the missing cows. Facisim: You have two cows. The gov't shoots you and takes both cows. Capitalisim: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. :love: :love: Yeah, slightly slanted editorial for a classroom poster, but you get the idea.;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Although its a bit of the subject, your classroom poster is funny (almost). I dont mean to be rude, but I get very political on the boards and rather than go into politics here on this thread, I want to ask that you leave the metaphoric (and inaccurate) symoblism of governments in the classroom. Sorry. But I do find your paragraph or so, about lord of the rings and the symbolism there to be of interest. I would have to say the greed of people has been an issue for humanity for all of time. Tolken wasnt the first or last to write about greed. I think that the most important part of this thread is sticking to the idea of pascivism, which if you ask me is a redundant topic anyway because the only time it can work is with 2 little words in front of it... "in theory." As long as we (humans) think of things like government in theory and not in practice, we will never be able to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasan Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 9Eagle7Dragon [/i] [B]Well, true, but maybe the one's who created them could defend them. Set up a huge planitary blockade or something... It could work, after all, it's a hypothetical situation! [i](Note: I'm refering to the fact that the hypothetical situation could work, not the one tried in real life.)[/i] Still, read [u]The Giver.[/u] It's a great novel, if you think about the lessons learned from it. Other than that, it's a boring a book so just look on to some book sites for it. Read the description and some spoilers the people send in. I forget who the author is. Well, it seems I'm the pessimist here,:rolleyes: but the quote was: "HISTORY is much like and endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever." -Marie Maia Kush Renada sorry, but it's like I allways say, "give props where props are deserved." :toothy: [/B][/QUOTE] What the Hell!?!? I'm trying to be KINDA nice here! You don't have to get all rude!:flaming: Why not just hunt me down an' stab me in the back in person!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinigami Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dark-clown [/i] [B]Pacifism couldn't work in our world, as there is to much hate in the world for there to be JUST peace, (take sep 11th, i mean come on how many ppl wanna kill the person who did it?) in the gundam world some1 would of just stud on him or something, when it comes down to Pacifism the MUST be some1 to protect it and to protect something there ends up being vilance or wars, so Pacifism only slows downs mans need to cause pain to some1 else to make tham feel good/better about how they are,or to prove a point or just because they want to, [/B][/QUOTE] *nods head* my thoughts exactly. yeah...but it would take someone to actually step-up from society with enough understanding of the problem. without hate, society would be dull, lifeless sorta. life progresses from war/hatred. many good things are created, but are used for other purposes than the intended ones. people and their emotions can never be controlled all at once, though we all try. failure is part of life. to change the world for the 'better', would mean that someone [w/o ur knowledge] would have their life greatly effected. ok...i'll shut up now, i guess...:blulaugh: :bluesweat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 9Eagle7Dragon Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sarasan [/i] [B]What the Hell!?!? I'm trying to be KINDA nice here! You don't have to get all rude!:flaming: Why not just hunt me down an' stab me in the back in person!?!? [/B][/QUOTE] Because the sword is in the shop. :bellylol:I was tring to be nice as well, don't beat me down :bash: because I'm big on quotes. (I'm sorry! That's just how I am! If you misquote something I just have this tendancy to be all over it!) For the record, I wasn't tring to be rude. (Aw, hell, you want to see RUDE?! You want me to start TRYING?! No you don't!!!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtakuSennen Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Relena Peacecraft was a fool.. Pacifism would never work. Even IF most people relieved the world of guns there would still be resistors.. (Probably Neo-Al Qaeda or Neo-nazis) who would make guns.. And go on a killing spree... Again, as others have said, check The Giver and Endless Waltz for more peace stuff that gets shattered. Plus, as seen on The Simpsons, either aliens or cowboy zombies would come and destroy all of the pitiful, unarmed humans.. We would be like flies, defenseless and killed for no specific reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domon Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I have to agree with Lalaith Ril, Peace is a pointless goal to achieve. There is no way we can attain peace without spilling too much blood. I'm also reminded of Emperor Dornkirk from Escaflowne, he worked for a "perfect world" his perfect world in the end turned out to be the senseless fighting between allies simply because they wished it upon themselves, even friends turned on each other and killed. YOu see, some people wish for peace, but for every one person that wishes for peace there are 5 more that want fighting, who live for it, who enjoy it. So total pacifism is not attainible on this plain of reality. If it were we would not have things like Columbine, 9/11/01, or the mass killings that go on in Israel and Palastine. I also must say that total peace would be ruined by some other threat. So total peace is a dream, its utterly hopeless to maintain, eventually that peace would be shattered and ruined and we would have to face the harsh realities of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamme Immorale Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 [quote]Perhaps as long as there are stupid people there will be war.[/quote] A comment about the stupid people: They don't start wars. They don't have the power. It's the mental geniuses who start them and fool the less inteligent tho follow them blindly. Of course, without those same geniuses, there would be no technology to BETTER our world. We wouldn't even be in a stone age if not for them. Pacifism is not possible. Domon said it himself, it is human nature to fight. If one nationed believed it could strive without developing weapons of, at least, protection, it would fall. Gundam Wing is an anime. As difficult as this is to say and hear, anime is not real life. (Someone hold me.. ;_;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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