Harry Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 I am getting sick and tired of the homeless wandering the subways during rush hour and begging for cash. It's irratating, and if I fail to sympathize with their sob story and give money rather then enjoy my nap, I might feel guilty. Here's a better plan: Create simple jobs for these people, and force them to work. For one thing, $5.50 an hour is certainly more appealing than the 4 dollars in quarters they might make one day. Not only that, but it would add the the economy, and give them a foot in the door towards a new start. Besides, I think it's completely aggrivating that our subway rides should serve as a means for someone to extort pocket change out of us with guilt and gimmicks. Forced labor for the homeless. Everyone wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 [color=green]for one, we don't have enough jobs to occupy all the homeless over here in america. there isn't even enough for all the educated people over here. secondly, they might not be able to acomplish the jobs we might give them, seeing as how the probably have a low education. thirdly, most people wouldn't want to have homeless people work for them. would you rather have a homeless guy be the cashire guy at mcdonalds when you eat there, or a regular guy that doesn't smell really bad. and lastly, you can't force someone to work. nice idea though.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Webb Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Have you ever seen the movie [i]With Honors[/i]? The story involves a homeless man named Simon. He graduated college (Harvard, I believe) and couldn't get a decent job or find a place to stay. And, for some reason, nobody wanted to hire a man with no grooming and no place of residence. He ended up moving into a basement under one of Harvard's dorm buildings. He didn't become homeless because he was lazy. It just happened. (It's a very good movie. You should watch it some time. Stars Joe Pesci and Brendan Fraser.) Thing is, forcing work on the homeless would be a dream-come-true for some of them. Some of them became homeless [i]because[/i] they couldn't get a job. That's why quite a few turn to begging on the streets. Of course, there's still the odd homeless person who begs for the shear hell of it and never tried to get a job. Then there's some that didn't have a chance. Of course, there's the issue of how many homeless people there are (almost too many to count) and how to find them all jobs, while still allowing those [i]with[/i] homes to find a place to work before [i]they[/i] become homeless. Plus, how exactly does a person live off of $5.50/hour? That'll either be enough for one meal everyday or a motel room for a few days of the week. I'm sure you meant well, but that'd just be too difficult to pull off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicoTranzrig Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 [COLOR=darkblue]With more and more laws against begging/pan-handling being made, it'll be harder and harder for the homeless to survive. Each one of them have different circumstances and homeless shelters provide a whole lot. Kinda like what someone said in FF7 about the slums underneath Midgar city, they have no choice but to live there. The other desperate option would be committing a crime or going to jail or the military, if they make it through basic training. It would be great if there were a place devoted to giving a homeless person a place to stay and help them find work to get them back on their feet. And not to mention, be safe from crime.[/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 8, 2003 Author Share Posted February 8, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Endymion [/i] [B]Have you ever seen the movie [i]With Honors[/i]? The story involves a homeless man named Simon. He graduated college (Harvard, I believe) and couldn't get a decent job or find a place to stay. And, for some reason, nobody wanted to hire a man with no grooming and no place of residence. He ended up moving into a basement under one of Harvard's dorm buildings. He didn't become homeless because he was lazy. It just happened. (It's a very good movie. You should watch it some time. Stars Joe Pesci and Brendan Fraser.)[/b][/quote] The key word ther is movie. Most of the homeless people these days are drug addicts or just flat out lazy. [quote]Thing is, forcing work on the homeless would be a dream-come-true for some of them. Some of them became homeless [i]because[/i] they couldn't get a job. That's why quite a few turn to begging on the streets. Of course, there's still the odd homeless person who begs for the shear hell of it and never tried to get a job. Then there's some that didn't have a chance.[/quote] Anyone that really wants to find a job can get one. [quote]Of course, there's the issue of how many homeless people there are (almost too many to count) and how to find them all jobs, while still allowing those [i]with[/i] homes to find a place to work before [i]they[/i] become homeless. Plus, how exactly does a person live off of $5.50/hour? That'll either be enough for one meal everyday or a motel room for a few days of the week.[/quote] I'm not talking about jobs that involve insane amounts of skill here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B]The key word ther is movie. Most of the homeless people these days are drug addicts or just flat out lazy.[/quote][/b] [color=green]not even close[/color] [quote][b] Anyone that really wants to find a job can get one.[/quote][/b] [color=green]then why do we have so many uniployed people looking for jobs?[/color] [quote][b] I'm not talking about jobs that involve insane amounts of skill here. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=green]what does that have to do with anything?[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 *stands up to little podium thing and clears throat* here goes First of all you dotn have a right to get aggrivated at them. Yes soem are lazy. But most..... just cant do things.... for education resons. Or things like that. If you spent a month in their shoes YOU WOULD KNWO WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT. If you spent a month in the shoes of a homeless person.... You would look at homeless people much differently. Second of all easy simple jobs...., HA year right... i live in the small town of North Bend OR Coos County ... or the stupid state OREGON.... Now theres a high number of unemployment just here. Imagine what the rest of the us is like. Thridly you cant force someone to work... that would be like turning the homeless people into SLAVES for their own good. Fouthly The reson they cant get jo0bs easily anywhere is because the places that do hire... hire clean.... well dressed well manored people. People with a good home... insurance. Its like htis around here.... you have to have insurance and an ok home to get a good job... but you need a job to get a good home. See... its a never ending loop. Fifthly Most movies that have to do with homeless people and such.... are BASED ON A TRUE STORY *steps down* that will be all from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 9Eagle7Dragon Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 How about are gov't stop giving so much to people overseas? First off, they don't even have a snowball's chance in hell. Second, everything we send to these countries are intercepted by warlords. So while we fight warlords in Bosnia, lets give aid to our own people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Australia has a reasonably useless "work for a dole" program, though it is better than nothing. The Australian welfare system is really twisted, at the moment if you play the system you can end up earning more by sitting on your *** than you would by getting a job. Does (I'm guessing your on about America) America have a welfare system? As for homeless people, you will never be able to get rid of the ?problem?, it?s a flaw in our society and is echoed all over the world. Though I have great respect for homeless/outcast people who get on with their lives and make some thing of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 [color=green]yes, there is a wellfare system, but it's very ineffective. the people who need it don't get it, and the ones who get it don't need it.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 [b][color=003399]Harry, I really don't think that the world works like that. After someone becomes homeless, it's very unlikely that they can find employment, mainly based on their appearance. In places like London it would be almost impossible for a homeless person to find work, primarily because they would [i]still[/i] live on the streets due to absurd house/rental prices. Forcing someone isn't right either, this might prevent someone who has worked hard to acquire some sort of position from taking it. Also, I doubt many employers would [i]want[/i] someone who was homeless working for them.[/b][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 [color=darkblue]i cannot believe what i'm hearing. here's a fact. i've been homeless off & on for about five years. it is very hard for a homeless person to get a job b/c they have a) no address to put on their applications & b) no phone number with which to be reached. unless you are hired or given an interview on the spot, or have a friend whose number you can use (unlikely... if this were the case, you'd probably not be homeless), you're pretty much screwed. homeless people also have to move around a lot depending on what resources are available where. some shelters aren't even located in the same place from week to week, or don't have openings. most day-shelters only have certain times to shower. what if you have to be at work before shower-time? how is someone supposed to go to an interview after sleeping behind a dumpster & smelling like garbage? try that & see how fast you get hired, or how many dirty looks you get. yeah, there are drug addicts. but there's just as many people who are disabled or sick, or from horrible family situations who ran away or were kicked out, or scared & confused, or lost everything is some tragedy. i knew a guy who had a huge stomach tumor that you could see poking out of his skin. it was as big as a cantalope. he was homeless b/c the government refused to approve his disability. no disability, no medicaid. no medicaid, no medical care. he's dead now. i eventually got out of the system b/c i learned to use it to my advantage. many people don't even know how to find out what help is available. when i was first homeless at 17, i had no idea what to do. i didn't know how to get food. i didn't know where to sleep. i didn't even know how to get warm, so i caught pneumonia. i find your attitude utterly sickening & closed-minded. "homeless people are drug addicts or just flat out lazy." ????? that's like saying all black people are gang members or all gays have AIDS or all women should be barefoot, pregnant, & in the kitchen. your stereotypes offend my finer sensibilities. everything you said about homeless people you have said about me. i will make a point to avoid you from now on. i hope one day you'll experience homelessness first hand, rather than make gross generalizations. i have rarely read a post that pissed me off more than this.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Blanko [/i] [B] Thridly you cant force someone to work... that would be like turning the homeless people into SLAVES for their own good. [/B][/QUOTE] Exactly! Man, I had to laugh reading this thread. You can't force people to work, lol. I don't even think that forcing work upon someone is "for their own good." A system like that would probably force them to endure grueling manual labor for the lowest salary possible. I mean, five dollars and fifty cents an hour? Give me a break. This reminds me of a sweat shop system that's saddled on foreigners. I don't know where you live, but that's not how things should be in America. We're supposed to be free. I agree with Macaiodh on this one. I actually deal with homeless people on a daily basis. Some of you should read the story I did on George in the poetry forum. The homeless are people too, not worker ants. Factors such as mental retardation, sickness and personal problems contribute to homelessness. It's not an easy life. If there are going to be programs instituted, I think it should be for better shelters. Anyway, most of the people who replied were fairly sympathetic and understanding on some level. I just think it's important to understand the problem before you make solutions. Perhaps if more industrial jobs, community programs and educational funding were available in urban areas, people would experience homelessness and crime on a smaller scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I dont really know what to say about an idea like this... Its a question that takes far more thought than I could put up in the time it takes to elaborate during a single post. The real question in this that needs to be asked.... Can you force someone to work for their own good? Since I try to be honest no matter what the situation, Im gonna have to let everyone down who is expecting me to give some hard core right wing opinion... Im in the middle and this sort of question takes too much thought for an honest person, no matter what the background is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B]I am getting sick and tired of the homeless wandering the subways during rush hour and begging for cash. It's irratating, and if I fail to sympathize with their sob story and give money rather then enjoy my nap, I might feel guilty. Here's a better plan: Create simple jobs for these people, and force them to work. For one thing, $5.50 an hour is certainly more appealing than the 4 dollars in quarters they might make one day. Not only that, but it would add the the economy, and give them a foot in the door towards a new start. Besides, I think it's completely aggrivating that our subway rides should serve as a means for someone to extort pocket change out of us with guilt and gimmicks. Forced labor for the homeless. Everyone wins. [/B][/QUOTE] I don't know what country you are from, but in America we have something called freedom. They have the freedom to make their lives what they want them to be. It is none of your business whether they are homeless and not working, or they live in a mansion and work a 9-5 job. The economy is one of the reasons people are homeless. They can't find jobs to work at, so how the hell are you going to force them to work if they are trying already and there are no jobs to work at? Job require qualifications, and guess what some people are just un-lucky enough that their qualifications don't match the needs of the business era. As I said before this is America. (Well ok where I am atleast) People here have the right to make their own destiny, make their own future. What they do with that right is their choice. If you think they should get work, well go ahead and try. Try to find a job for EVERY single homeless person out there. No doubtly forcing them to work would only put more people out of jobs, making them homeless. So what do you do? Find more jobs? Wait more people become homeless. They loose their jobs, because they arn't as qualified as the new person. And after a while they hit rock bottom. Homeless.... Forcing them to work would only be a temporary solution, and in my opinion an un-reasonable solution.... What do you have against homeless people. Are you aggrivated at them, because they constantly remind you of how good you've got it? Are you mad because they're un-lucky? That doesn't make sense.... As others have said....they're humans too. They're non-less of a human us we are. Hell they probably are better humans. They are more modest, more thankful, and they sure as hell know what its like to hit rock bottom.... *clears his throat and steps down from his soap box* I think I'm done.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juu Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 [color=ff00cc] [size=1]Hmm... I don't believe [i]any[/i] place would just hire anyone off the street. First of all, they can't just get up and find a job. They need a working degree at the least to get a job at McDonalds' or Wal-Mart. Also, they have to be educated enough to be able to do the math in counting and recieving money. It's not as easy as alot of people take it to be.[/color] [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I must say though... A lot of flaming has come to harry and although he went about this post in a way I would not have done, I do think that the reason he suggest this is not because of his "disgust" with these people... Its because he wants to help them. You cant give people things and hope that changes things for the rest of their lives. Thats a bandaid for a bullet wound. We need to help these people help themselves. Since that problem is so hard to address, its no suprise that I will admit (maybe it is a suprise to some) that I can not offer a solution. But I ask again, Can we make someone work? I can tell you from my own experience that if you try and force me to do something I will only hate it more. So what do we do... I suggest we leave this to the really genious minds and the truely caring hearts. If we can all work together on problems like this, we might make a difference. Although I did like the fact that someone mentioned all the damn foriegn aid america gives out, yet we cant take care of our own. Sad thing is, most of the people complaining about foreign problems are the same ones asking to take care of the homeless. Its a horrible cycle, do we take care of the homeless or the foreign people. I believe it wouldnt be bad to start at home... ****, if we could strengthen our own country we could have more effect on the rest of the world. But like I said, some people would throw a fit when we stopped foreign aid, so there is nothing that can be done for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semjaza Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Somehow I think you'd be much more happy in a communist country... lol. There are a lot of homeless people who simply don't want to work... I have no idea how many, and I doubt anyone else does either. Since when do people ask the homeless what they think of things or what they really want out of life? Or even why they are homeless in the first place? They don't. Still there are many that simply cannot work. How can these people be given jobs, when there are many many fully qualified people who can't get a job either. It just doesn't work like that. I think most of the flaming came from the impression that Harry simply wants these people out of his face so they'd stop bothering him, rather than him actually wanting to help. I have no idea if that's how he feels, but it can be read that way. I understand both sides, especially considering I deal with these same people everyday when I go downtown. Sitting on a computer bitching about it isn't going to do anything though. Making basically impossible suggestions won't either. People just have to get more involved and help those who actually want it (a hell of a lot of people don't want any help in the first place). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 [color=darkblue]Okay, yeah, I've calmed down a bit. Maybe you guys are right & he does want to help people. But that's not the way it came across at all. Rather, it sounded like he thought homeless people were beneath him. So maybe we should consider the way we say things before we go running off at the mouth about things we have no real knowledge of, hmmm?[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Macaiodh [/i] [B][color=darkblue] So maybe we should consider the way we say things before we go running off at the mouth about things we have no real knowledge of, hmmm?[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] Not know about? just because you went insane doesn't mean I don't know anything about homeless. If we had work programs, your friend would have gotten his tumor removed, but he was allowed to die on the streets because there was none. The drug addicts could be in a controlled environment and the runaways could be in a safe environment instead of just hoping they don't get murdered. I don't know what most of you think I'm saying here, I'm saying that all the homeless people go to some little camp type place where they'll get room and board and there they will have things to work on and do so they can earn some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jenni Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B]Not know about? just because you went insane doesn't mean I don't know anything about homeless. If we had work programs, your friend would have gotten his tumor removed, but he was allowed to die on the streets because there was none. The drug addicts could be in a controlled environment and the runaways could be in a safe environment instead of just hoping they don't get murdered. I don't know what most of you think I'm saying here, I'm saying that all the homeless people go to some little camp type place where they'll get room and board and there they will have things to work on and do so they can earn some money. [/B][/QUOTE] Damn, what do you all have against harry? He has a great idea. Yea, I know it's hard to get out of being homeless, but obviously, Lady, you got out of it and became a normal member of society. Maybe it's wrong to make the assumption, but obviously you have a computer, so you must have a home and a job. I know you all think I'm a major *****. Oh well, good for you. Would you rather waste YOUR tax money on homeless shelters where our failing economy gets nothing in return, or would you rather have small camps where the economy at least gets something back? You all waste your pity on people too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B]Not know about? just because you went insane doesn't mean I don't know anything about homeless. If we had work programs, your friend would have gotten his tumor removed, but he was allowed to die on the streets because there was none. The drug addicts could be in a controlled environment and the runaways could be in a safe environment instead of just hoping they don't get murdered. I don't know what most of you think I'm saying here, I'm saying that all the homeless people go to some little camp type place where they'll get room and board and there they will have things to work on and do so they can earn some money. [/B][/QUOTE] Well ok that sounds much different than what you sayed at the beginning. I must say it does sound like you what to help them, not just "get them out of your way". Sorry for my rash and incosiderate judgement. Anyways the whole problem with that is you really can't contain people. In a way it is like the Concentration camps during WW2 yet not as...evil. You wouldn't be killing them, but you would be confining them. Now if you give them the option to go to them, thats a different story. If you made them I think they'd just run away. So I mean your intentions are good, your information does need a bit updating, but oh well. In an idealistic world we wouldn't even have to discuss this problem, but this world revolves around money. "The end of the world is coming! The end of the world is coming! I've heard that as long as I have lived and its true. The end of the world has come. Its come in the form of greed and money."- Annonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subversive Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 [quote]quote:[/b] [color=green]then why do we have so many uniployed people looking for jobs?[/color][/quote] While that is true, this maybe his only valid point, if you want work you can find it. Somepeople are just too picky about what kind of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SpyderDragon [/i] [B]While that is true, this maybe his only valid point, if you want work you can find it. Somepeople are just too picky about what kind of work. [/B][/QUOTE] While what you are saying is theoretically possible its not always possible. It depends on so many things. What if the inteviewer is not feeling good that day and decides to blow it off? There are so many things that go into getting a job, sometimes people can't find jobs. And you can't just get any ol' job. You need some qualifications for almost every single job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i] [B] You need some qualifications for almost every single job. [/B][/QUOTE] Not really.How do you think mexicans that cross the border get jobs? There's always a surplus of low paying labor jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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