Force the Homeless to work!

[Subversive]

some jobs don't require interviews man. Without those options you can always do manual labor for a set amount of money, like a onetime thing. Everyone has a talent, which people need, so you can make money.

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]Not really.How do you think mexicans that cross the border get jobs? There's always a surplus of low paying labor jobs. [/B][/QUOTE]

Those jobs are bogus, man. They're illegal and they subject people to deplorable conditions. Oftentimes such jobs are filled by children and the wages are laughable.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]Those jobs are bogus, man. They're illegal and they subject people to deplorable conditions. Oftentimes such jobs are filled by children and the wages are laughable. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ever hear of the meat packing industry? Also those jobs are only filled by children in Asia.

[James]

[color=#808080]I think the key thing is to address the reasons why people become homeless in the first place. And for those who are homeless...let's face it, they're not going to be getting most jobs if they're dirty and have no address.

I think Governments need to invest more money on things like homeless shelters. Shelters need to be more numerous...and they shouldn't simply be a place for people to eat and sleep; they should provide incentives and job counselling for the homeless. I think we should be giving the homeless a sense of pride and enthusiasm for employment, which they may not otherwise have.

Forcing them to work isn't necessarily going to achieve that. They have to [i]want[/i] to work to be able to stay in a paid employment situation for any substantial period of time. Therefore, as I said, let's expand the concept of homeless shelters and make them more of an employment resource as well as a basic care resource.[/color]

[Lady Macaiodh]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i][B][color=#808080]
I think Governments need to invest more money on things like homeless shelters. Shelters need to be more numerous...and they shouldn't simply be a place for people to eat and sleep; they should provide incentives and job counselling for the homeless. I think we should be giving the homeless a sense of pride and enthusiasm for employment, which they may not otherwise have.
[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=darkblue]This is actually a big problem for the homeless here in Richmond.

First, most local shelters are only open from November to March. Second, there are only about 2 or 3 year-rounds with at most 40 spaces each (usually less). Third, emergency shelters are only open when the temperature drops to 25 degrees F. Fourth, there is an unspoken etiquette that is strictly followed in getting a space (decided on a daily basis by the people who work for the shelter); the order is as follows: 1)Women with children, 2)Reserved spots, 3)Young adult women, 3)Grown women, 4)Young adult men, 5)Grown men. God forbid that you are male & show up 15 minutes after check-in begins. There just won't be a spot. Even reserves lose their spot if they're a few minutes late. There just simply isn't enough room for everyone, not by a long shot.

Sleep shelters close at around 5:30 A.M. Everyone from all the shelters then moves to the day shelter (there's only one), which opens at 8. Richmond is seering in the summer & freezing in the winter, so it's a lot more crowded during those seasons. The day shelter is used for showers (reservation required), laundry (ditto), & visiting social workers. The social workers do all they can to help with assisted living, job searches, government aid, etc. but there's only two on staff per day.

You can all see the problem here. But Richmond can't even afford to keep the DMVs open. There have been so many budget cuts this year, mostly because of the drought & the terrorist attacks (we're pretty close to D.C.) that the governor has more important things to worry about than homeless people.[/COLOR]

[Sui Generis]

There are only so many of these "low-paying jobs." Jobs are limited. We don't have all the jobs we need. So even if every homeless person agreed to work, finding them all a job would take a life time. Its just impossible, I hate to say that word, but it is.

And yes even the "mexicans who cross over the border" have an education. They have qualifications to work. Alot of them actually go to school and live in a house. Unlike a homesless person who could've been homeless their whole life so they wouldn't know how to count to 20.

I just think you are over simplifying the problem.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i]
[B]And yes even the "mexicans who cross over the border" have an education. [/B][/QUOTE]
You're joking me right? I don't think you understand what I mean by jobs, I'm talking about mindless drone work that takes no brains to do. And btw people the cross the border from mexico (the ones that run/swim across) don't have an education.

[Subversive]

Yes that was a pretty halfbaked comment, there is no way all of them have an education.

[Sui Generis]

There is also no way that none of them are educated.

Its a gross and stupid stereotype to say that they all arn't educated. Thats a shovanistic and pig headed point of view....

Anyways...

Drone work? Do you expect people to do this pointless work for low wages? You can't make these people work. Ecspecially for crappy wages! They deserve the same money as everyone else!

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i]
[B]There is also no way that none of them are educated.

Its a gross and stupid stereotype to say that they all arn't educated. Thats a shovanistic and pig headed point of view....[/b][/quote]
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH you don't know **** about the real world do you? The simple fact is the ones that cross the border like that are usually the impoverished ones that don't go to school. It's not a stereotype.

[quote][b]Drone work? Do you expect people to do this pointless work for low wages? You can't make these people work. Ecspecially for crappy wages! They deserve the same money as everyone else! [/B][/QUOTE]
Once again you obviously don't know how this works. And crappy wages to us is great wages to them since there's hardly any work in mexico.

[Sui Generis]

Oh ok. So you're proposing that we take advantage of these people, just because their country may not be as rich as us. Of course thats how it is, I mean you save money right? I mean everythings ok as long as you save money. Even if we basically descriminate them for a few extra bucks in our pockets.:rolleyes:

I don't know about the world? You're the one who is stereotyping. Just because they are improvished doesn't mean they don't know anything. You can be educated without going to school. Half of the things we learn that we really need are from home. We can learn to read, write, add, subtract, even care for people at our homes.

What makes you the all knowing? What makes you the one who knows everything about the world?! Well?!

[Frankie]

OH lord...

*zaps them both with an electrical wire*

Stop the bickering you two
sheeeessh

me and my sister dont argue as much as this..

sure its a debat but its slowly molding into contint bikering...

and as for the topic... i feel its pointless for me to post my opinions now... for.... some people will just say im stupid and dont know anything... and right now id rather not..... hear or read that

~Flora

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i]
[B]Oh ok. So you're proposing that we take advantage of these people, just because their country may not be as rich as us. Of course thats how it is, I mean you save money right? I mean everythings ok as long as you save money. Even if we basically descriminate them for a few extra bucks in our pockets.:rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
What do you mean, that's already happening. Ever hear of migrant workers or the people that work at the meat factories?

[quote]I don't know about the world? You're the one who is stereotyping. Just because they are improvished doesn't mean they don't know anything. You can be educated without going to school. Half of the things we learn that we really need are from home. We can learn to read, write, add, subtract, even care for people at our homes.[/quote]
How do you learn how to read write when your parents don't know how to either? Face it, if you're poor you're most likely not educated either.

[quote][b]What makes you the all knowing? What makes you the one who knows everything about the world?! Well?! [/B][/QUOTE]
I went to school with these kids. I live Houston and we get out fair share of border crossers. The kids come with their parents and they know very little english and don't know how to read or write in spanish that well either. They will either stay here for the rest of their life going to schools and learn decent english, but that's only if they stay here. Others will go off somewhere else looking for work.

[Manic Webb]

I must admit, following what Harry says is [i]very[/i] confusing. One minute it almost sounds like he hates homeless people, and the next he clarifies by saying that he only wants to help them. I think a few of us need to think about how we phrase our thoughts & opinions in this thread.

Harry, some of what you're saying is very vague. It's causing most of the arguments in this thread. Exactly what kind of simple, mindless jobs are we talking about, here? Most importantly, where exactly is the money for this program going to come from? Lady Macaiodh said that Richmond barely has enough money to keep its DMV open, so where would a town like this get the money to aid the homeless on a more regular basis?

[Juu]

[color=ff00cc] [size=1]Well, for one thing. There are very few jobs in this world that allow you to work with absolutely no education, even with a minimum wage.

And, it's actually very tough even for a middle-class (average) person to find a job. There's alot of things involved in getting a job, and it's not exactly as simple as walking up to a store and asking for a job.

People don't just give away jobs. You have to fill out resumes, and have to show them a working degree in order to work. There's alot of unemployed/homeless people in the world, and it's actually pretty impossible getting each of them a job.[/color] [/size]

[Frankie]

Juu has a ver good point here..

Like i have said...

for the people here in northbend alone.... theres an unruley amout of unemployment... its unusualy high....

so take a small town.. .and just multiply that a hundred or even a million fold... and you have the problem with the us...

not enough jobs... or... just the fact that you need work experiance education and like juu said work degree and such like that

so .... mainly.. .what im trying to say is..

Forceing the homeless to work... is impossible IMO

[Sui Generis]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]What do you mean, that's already happening. Ever hear of migrant workers or the people that work at the meat factories?


How do you learn how to read write when your parents don't know how to either? Face it, if you're poor you're most likely not educated either.


I went to school with these kids. I live Houston and we get out fair share of border crossers. The kids come with their parents and they know very little english and don't know how to read or write in spanish that well either. They will either stay here for the rest of their life going to schools and learn decent english, but that's only if they stay here. Others will go off somewhere else looking for work. [/B][/QUOTE]

Just because its already happening doesn't mean its right. People are murdered, so are we gonna keep doing it, just because people already do it? Thats a stupid reason to do anything.

I'll admit some to half of immagrants don't have an education, but Kansas gets its fair share of immagrants. There is a 20% white population where I live. So do you really think I don't know anything about immagrants?

Immagrants isn't even the main reason this thread was started, so lets put our little argument on hold, for the sake of the thread. This is about homeless people, not immagrants.

If you wanna continue PM me....

[Char!]

[b][color=teal][size=1]:wow: Well, ah, I ah, think that we should try to get [i]some[/i] homeless people to work, just because it's a good thing to do? :help:

And enough of all this pointless bashing of ideas, yo. Save that for the U.N.


--Mike
"char,char![/b][/color][/size]

[Red]

[b][color=003399]Harry, there is really no need to degrade and be rude to other people in a debate. If you can't have an intelligent debate yourself, don't bother insulting others.

Also, you are very general and mixed in your replies. As Endymion said, one minute you appear to hate homeless people, another you seem as if you want to help them.

Try to clarify on your points more.[/b][/color]

[DuoMax]

I find that people generally have a very biased view of homeless people and immigrants. They say that its morally correct for CEOS to have 50 million dollar salaries and lay off more workers(creating more poverty). They say that the immigrants/homeless should get an education. Pronoem being they are too busy begging/working for low wages/starving to get a job.

[Guest Jenni]

I don't see where Harry insulted everyone... He's sarcastic, but he makes his points based on experience.

Juu, what is a working degree, enlighten me.

A lot of mindless droning work is hiring... Like my grocery store.... Temp work, you don't need a working degree for those. It pisses me off that while you try to show so much pity for them, you don't seem to want them to try to get on there own two feet and help themselves. I'm sorry, it's rather degrading to be a homeless person. I would rather be a uneducqated, Spanish border crosser, that actually tries to get a job, instead of a homeless person who's meals depend on people's kindness.

It's relatively easy to get an education, or at least a high school education.....or GED... It's called adult ed. They have bi-lingual programs for that. You guys make it like its so impossible for a person to make better for themselves and get a damn job. The jobs they are talking about, that are laying off, are big companies that you need at least a bachelors degree to qualify for. There are plenty of places where the "helpless homeless people" can get some manual labor. It doesn't take an education to flip some damn burgers....

Just so you people know: The main point of this discussion is getting homeless people off the streets and becoming tax-paying citizens of America, doing something more productive than begging for cash. You seem to not realize the main point, as you are arguing with Harry about helping these people -_-'

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i]
[B]Just because its already happening doesn't mean its right. People are murdered, so are we gonna keep doing it, just because people already do it? Thats a stupid reason to do anything.[/b][/quote]
Did I ever said it was right? Of course not.

[quote]Well, for one thing. There are very few jobs in this world that allow you to work with absolutely no education, even with a minimum wage.[/quote]
There's actually a lot. Meat packing like I said before.

[quote]And, it's actually very tough even for a middle-class (average) person to find a job. There's alot of things involved in getting a job, and it's not exactly as simple as walking up to a store and asking for a job. [/quote]
We're not talking about middle-class people.

[quote]People don't just give away jobs. You have to fill out resumes, and have to show them a working degree in order to work. There's alot of unemployed/homeless people in the world, and it's actually pretty impossible getting each of them a job. [/quote]
Once again you're talking to something that doesn't apply to labor intensive jobs.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Endymion [/i]
[B]Harry, some of what you're saying is very vague. It's causing most of the arguments in this thread. Exactly what kind of simple, mindless jobs are we talking about, here? Most importantly, where exactly is the money for this program going to come from? Lady Macaiodh said that Richmond barely has enough money to keep its DMV open, so where would a town like this get the money to aid the homeless on a more regular basis? [/B][/QUOTE] The program will be payed by half of the welfare budget.

[Braidless Baka]

I think you're taking an extremely shallow approach to this... It's a delicate issue. I'll echo what's already been said when I say there just aren't enough jobs to go round anywhere. Where I live there's LOADS of unemployment, even people with good qualifications can have problems finding work...

[QUOTE]
There's actually a lot. Meat packing like I said before.
[/QUOTE]

Woo, obviously that section of the economy is in SO MUCH demand O_o Yes, let's do that, everyone to the meat packing factories!! ¬_¬

And... labour intensive? Okay, these are relatively low-paid jobs, am I right? (If not, why does nobody have them already?) So, hypothetically, these people who are going to get "labourious" jobs, (who aren't living anywhere and can't afford a mortgage btw...)they're gonna be able to feed and clothe themselves out of this wage are they? You're going to have to shelter these people before anything else... and the (any) government just can't afford to do that. I mean these people have to look presentable for work right? And they need enough food for all this manual labour that you're suggesting they do. And then, when people in whatever country you're from, complain that these jobs that THEY could have are being given to the homeless, what will your gorvenment say to that? *thinks for a moment* :idea: Oh yeah! They'll say "Well, actually you can all have these jobs, seeing as how you're all paying tax and all", and then the cycle starts all over again.

[QUOTE]The program will be payed by half of the welfare budget. [/QUOTE]

Really? Got nothing else that it needs to be spent on do you? Very prosperous...

And besides, if these jobs were freely available, wouldn't people already have them? (I'm not just talking about the homeless here, I'm talking about people in general) I'm sure living in the streets isn't what people want.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to get at you as an individual, I'm just a little annoyed at how you try to give such chaste and callus answers to a very sensitive topic.

My rant has now ended ^_^

[Sui Generis]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]Did I ever said it was right? Of course not.


The program will be payed by half of the welfare budget. [/B][/QUOTE]


Did you say it? Directly no. But by using it as an excuse and saying "Well it already happens anyways" you are saying that it doesn't bother you. So do you think its right. The way you said it, it sounded like you did.


Welfare. Doesn't that go to people who need it? What would happen, where would this welfare come from. If I'm not mistaken (Which chances are I am) but isn't welfare slowly becoming swamped and running low on money. There are people out there RIGHT now who need that welfare. I don't think its for us to decide where that welfare is used.

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i]
[B]Did you say it? Directly no. But by using it as an excuse and saying "Well it already happens anyways" you are saying that it doesn't bother you. So do you think its right. The way you said it, it sounded like you did.


Welfare. Doesn't that go to people who need it? What would happen, where would this welfare come from. If I'm not mistaken (Which chances are I am) but isn't welfare slowly becoming swamped and running low on money. There are people out there RIGHT now who need that welfare. I don't think its for us to decide where that welfare is used. [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh yea, welfare helps [b]some[/b] people, but where I live people use it to buy there fancy *** cars, platinum chains and living in the projects. I'd say the homeless are more important that mindless idiots with suped up hondas.