Force the Homeless to work!

[Kent]

Actually lalaith, that welfare is for us to decide about where it goes. (in the true essence of our government)

Unfortunatly presidents over the past 30 years have been playing with it to do things that are just rediculus.

Plus due to certain presidents, that welfare is being sent only to certain types of people... oh say... unwed mothers.

So being married screws you out of welfare as well as many other beneficial programs that can supply everything from buisness start up capital to payments for college educations.

I believe the people have the right to vote and elect leaders that will represent the way we want the money to be used. (of course that is one big load of idealistic democratic crap, so its not gonna happen any time soon. But atleast the idea is there.)

My point in all of this is that, we have the power in our system to voice our opinions and hopfully we can make a difference in the way money for help is spent.

I also wanna support Jenni on the points made in the above post.

I have literally been in line behind people trying to use food stamps to buy beer... when it didnt work out because that is not allowed, they used their own normal money.

I dont wanna tell people how to live or spend their money... hell, I drink all the time (infact, far too much) but when your down on your luck to the point of needing food stamps, you need to get your priorities together and not waste your money on beer.

That is why we need to help the unfortunate help themselves, not just throw them hand outs.

Hand outs will only help until they run out.

But teaching someone how to take care of themself and manage their life in a more orginized manner... that could make all the difference.

Things like not just living off of welfare, but using it until you get back on your feet.

Just the same with shelters, those need to places that provide a steady and secure enviroment for an individual to get on their feet, get one single suit, and showers/food until they can get that job they need. Not just release them after every night and allow them to do anything in the streets while we all hope for the best about what they are doing with that freedom they have inbetween visits to the shelter for food and showers.

If we can take care of criminals in jail, we can figure out a way to provide for these innocents who deserve more.

Problem is... like I said before, you cant force anyone to help themselves or to work.

Although forcing someone to work is a better place to go with our efforts instead of the current system.

Another question: do you keep sinking money into something that doesnt work hoping to fix it, or do you cut your losses and start over?

If your a buisness major that is an easy one, for the rest of us, its just a simple matter of common sense.

I will let you guys decide what to make of the options Ive laid out, but I like this sort of discussion more than arguing over who is taking jobs and who is getting the shaft.

I must say though, my uncle jack owns a construction company and employs all sorts of imigrants. He says they work hard and are always willing to work more because they know that he is gonna have a pay check for them, garunteed.

Maybe we should let the imigrants have their jobs and try to find some jobs for the homeless.

Shoot, I just had an idea.

Why dont we try to spread out the homeless population into areas that are all over instead of leaving them clumped up in certain areas.

We have areas like new york where the homeless wonder the subway aimlessly begging and we have areas like san fransisco where the homeless flock to because of the unimaginable benefits provided to them simply for being homeless.

If we could get them on their feet for a week at these shelters in the major cities, then move them into less populated areas, we could easily use the same effort we use for paroled criminals and set up these people with some sort of job.

Just an idea.

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i]
[B]Shoot, I just had an idea.

Why dont we try to spread out the homeless population into areas that are all over instead of leaving them clumped up in certain areas.

We have areas like new york where the homeless wonder the subway aimlessly begging and we have areas like san fransisco where the homeless flock to because of the unimaginable benefits provided to them simply for being homeless.

If we could get them on their feet for a week at these shelters in the major cities, then move them into less populated areas, we could easily use the same effort we use for paroled criminals and set up these people with some sort of job.

Just an idea. [/B][/QUOTE]

It's illegal to force anyone to change there location..such as from NYC to chicago, but it is a good idea.

[Kent]

No forcing, just allowing them to decide if they want to take advantage of this oppurtuninty.

Unfortunatly, as long as certain areas are creating a more than hospitable atmosphere, the homeless will stay where they are.

Oddly, that means most of the homeless are gonna be no where near me since I live in dumpwater, louisiana.

But thanks for recognizing the idea as being an alright one.

Plus, I still think that if we can find jobs and homes for paroled criminals, we can do the same for the homeless.

Its just another example of misdirected energy.

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i]
[B]No forcing, just allowing them to decide if they want to take advantage of this oppurtuninty.

Unfortunatly, as long as certain areas are creating a more than hospitable atmosphere, the homeless will stay where they are.

Oddly, that means most of the homeless are gonna be no where near me since I live in dumpwater, louisiana.

But thanks for recognizing the idea as being an alright one.

Plus, I still think that if we can find jobs and homes for paroled criminals, we can do the same for the homeless.

Its just another example of misdirected energy. [/B][/QUOTE]

Criminals should just stay in jail. They usually never learn a lesson

[Manic Webb]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jenni [/i]
[B]Criminals should just stay in jail. They usually never learn a lesson [/B][/QUOTE]

Well that's a very harsh statement.
"You have been found guilty of smoking marijuana. Because I know temporary incarceration won't teach you a lesson, I'll sentence you to [i]life without parole[/i]. And heaven forbid the justice system was wrong and we never find out you were innocent of your crime."

I digress.

Gokents had a pretty good idea, but the problem is that it'd probably only work in theory. The major issue is convincing someone to move somewhere without it becoming a government-forced relocation (which can be a problem in places like the US)

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Endymion [/i]
[B]Well that's a very harsh statement.
"You have been found guilty of smoking marijuana. Because I know temporary incarceration won't teach you a lesson, I'll sentence you to [i]life without parole[/i]. And heaven forbid the justice system was wrong and we never find out you were innocent of your crime."

I digress.

Gokents had a pretty good idea, but the problem is that it'd probably only work in theory. The major issue is convincing someone to move somewhere without it becoming a government-forced relocation (which can be a problem in places like the US) [/B][/QUOTE]

Not ****ing marijuana charges.. you arent a criminal.. just an idiot. Things such as drug trafficking... murderers... rapists... most become repeat offenders. They should keep their slummy asses in a cold cell where they get ****ing butt raped. There useless minions that don't deserve to live because they have no ****ing brain.

[Sui Generis]

This is going to be more of a moral debate but oh well...

I don't know about you, but from where I am from people are taught to allow others to have second chances. Look it may have been a mistake in life. And guess what INNOCENT people are in jail RIGHT now for things they didn't do.

Everyone deserves a second chance. EVERYONE! Even the sick bastard who murdered my friend.

Everyone can change, and everyone is entitled to that chance to change!

[Red]

[b][color=003399]I really don't want to have to close [i]another[/i] thread just because of flaming and plain disregard for intelligent debate.

Try to just debate instead of having a go at the other person.[/b][/color]

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Elite [/i]
[B][b][color=003399]I really don't want to have to close [i]another[/i] thread [/b][/color] [/B][/QUOTE]
Then don't be such a nazi.

[Sui Generis]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]Then don't be such a nazi. [/B][/QUOTE]

That right there will get you banned real quick like O.o


Anyways I mean if you think about it your hearts in the good place, and if it was possible for EVERYONE to have a job it'd be great, I just don't think its possible. And forcing people to work, in my mind just isn't right. But oh well.

[James]

[color=#808080]Harry, watch your mouth. I don't expect that kind of disrespect for Moderators.

Elite's concerns are 100% valid; keep to the topic at hand. I believe that most people are doing so, but I encourage those who are getting into personal attacks to be wary of our rules and to respect other members. Focus on the debate at hand, rather than members themselves.[/color]

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i]
[B]This is going to be more of a moral debate but oh well...

I don't know about you, but from where I am from people are taught to allow others to have second chances. Look it may have been a mistake in life. And guess what INNOCENT people are in jail RIGHT now for things they didn't do.

Everyone deserves a second chance. EVERYONE! Even the sick bastard who murdered my friend.

Everyone can change, and everyone is entitled to that chance to change! [/B][/QUOTE]

Dude, I know innocentpeople are in jail.... But a murder isn't an accident,my friend... It's not I go around witha gun and shoot someone I hate by accident. People never change, we always stay the same.

And I don't see what was so disrespectful. We're having a good discussion, no need to close this thread. Because if you did close this thread, it would be a little suppressing to close a good debate.

[Sui Generis]

(James or any mod if you don't want me to put this here, just tell me I will PM Jenni instead, but I thought the debate took this course so I'm gonna write it in here.)

How could you say that people don't change? Thats such a over-the-line stereotype. If noone change what would our life be. It would be nothing. The same old stuff, over and over again.

What is puberty? Everyone changes in puberty. Everyone changes every single day of their lives. Be it a big change or a small change. Everyone changes.

And yes some people don't change, and those people are the pathetic ones in human society. Ok well not the people who don't change, but the people who make no effort to change things that are at fault with them. Not appearances but stereotypes they make or something. Do you get what I am saying?

It can be an accident. People protecting their property from robbers have been sent to prison. They didn't MEAN to kill them, it was kill or be killed. Isn't that what war is. We have the right to protect ourselves, so in some cases it may not be an accident but sadly we don't have a choice.

I'm not saying that people didn't mean to murder people. You understand what I am saying hopefully. I think they should have a year of full time monitored time, then another year of spontaneouse monitoring. If they show NO absolutely NO signs of not feeling guilt or anything then they should be free. If they are planning on something else...throw 'em back.

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i]
[B](James or any mod if you don't want me to put this here, just tell me I will PM Jenni instead, but I thought the debate took this course so I'm gonna write it in here.)

How could you say that people don't change? Thats such a over-the-line stereotype. If noone change what would our life be. It would be nothing. The same old stuff, over and over again.

What is puberty? Everyone changes in puberty. Everyone changes every single day of their lives. Be it a big change or a small change. Everyone changes.

And yes some people don't change, and those people are the pathetic ones in human society. Ok well not the people who don't change, but the people who make no effort to change things that are at fault with them. Not appearances but stereotypes they make or something. Do you get what I am saying?

It can be an accident. People protecting their property from robbers have been sent to prison. They didn't MEAN to kill them, it was kill or be killed. Isn't that what war is. We have the right to protect ourselves, so in some cases it may not be an accident but sadly we don't have a choice.

I'm not saying that people didn't mean to murder people. You understand what I am saying hopefully. I think they should have a year of full time monitored time, then another year of spontaneouse monitoring. If they show NO absolutely NO signs of not feeling guilt or anything then they should be free. If they are planning on something else...throw 'em back. [/B][/QUOTE]

I meant mentality... Like for example, i'm never gonna stop being paranoid when it comes to people. People change physically all teh time, that's not the change I was implying... Personalities dont'change.

Ok, lemme give you the written out example of the "accident" I so briefly described:

Lets say you carry a gun on you, at all times, for this protection you speak of. You stare at this one kid you don't like, he picks on you all the time. You imagine shooting his *** up, for all the hard times, and the next thing you know, you jump at something.... probably your own nerves... that imagination of yours scares you... then the gun goes off, and shoots the kid in the head... accident or no?

[Sui Generis]

Accident yes. Worth jail time yes. I'm not saying they don't deserve to be in jail.

Noone changes in personality? Thats like saying noone changes their taste buds....thats not true. I've change in my time being here. Everyone matures. Not physically, but also mentally. If you bitched out someone at school that was your friend you feel bad about it later no? Then the guilt rises and you apologize becoming friends again. In a good case scenario...Well why don't these people get their chance to apologize? Because their crime was worse, I don't think thats right. But I respect your opinion, because thats only my opinion.....