The Homosexual Controversy

[Kent]

Well you guys have said alot since I left.

I will pick up at this point and not bring up the old stuff.

I believe that this thread has now come to the point that most thread come to when cloricus becomes involved...

Right now it seems that there are two partys in this thread.

Both parties are arguing, but one is arguing for the sake of playing devils advocate and the other is arguing for the beliefs they hold.

When an argument comes to this, there is no point in continuing.

Playing devils advocate is merely perpetuating an argument for the sake of insulting and inflaming the other parties involved in the discussion.

There is no question to me that at this point it has become obvious that the majority of members of the boards who are participating in this disscusion support the pleas of the homosexual community.

I would like to personally say that I still have "hang ups" about the angle of approach homosexuals take towards their end goals.

I have been brought to believe by my exposure to the homosexual population of the United States that the end goals for homosexuals are tolerance and equal rights.

I believe the pursuit of equal rights is a worthy one that deserves all of the politically active voices it can muster up.
Gay marriage and adoption are issues that can be taken up with the government and addressed politically.

However, tolerance is slightly different.

Tolerance, or a lack there of, is a matter of hate. People who hate homosexuals have no tolerance and therefore, if the end goal is tolerance, you must address hate and not politics.

Forcing people to do anything only creates more opposition.

So I believe that the political goals of the homosexual population are being approached in an acceptable way.

However, I believe the cultural goals of the homosexual population are being pursued in a manner that, more often than not, ends up alienating heterosexuals such as myself.

I believe in "live and let live" but that means you have got to have tolerance for me, just the same as I do for you.

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][/b]

[color=#808080]For the last damn time, people do [i]not[/i] choose to be gay! [i]Nobody chooses to be gay![/i]

I'd like you to tell me when you [b]chose[/b] to be attracted to the opposite sex.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=blue]Sorry, wrong choice of words, I should have said It is sad and pathetic that people are killed because they are gay

I Agree with TN, as I said in that same post, so any discrimination was not intended. I am as much against the stereotyping and the discrmination as you James.

That just needed to be cleared up I think.[/color]

[Sui Generis]

Personally this thread has started to make me sick!

I mean I know everyone has their own opinions, and they are entitled to them.

But I'm sorry this thread has seriously sickened me.

I'm glad that there are people out there....James and TN that will stick up for their morals, and thank god they do, but I can't believe that someone could so BLATENLY say that they are a homophobiac.

I find that extremely offensive sense I am Bi.

I mean YES tons of people in this thread have stuck up for their morals, and mine as well, but the thought of the amount of people who are so against the whole idea. I mean....it makes me sick....

I thought OtakuBoards was an extremely accepting place, but now I see that even here has its acceptions. I hope the people who have said what they have said will think about it. Maybe some day they will realize that what they say affects people....

I know I've said It makes me sick in 3 different ways, but thats all I can think of. It truly does, no other ways to describe it.

I'm done now...

[Justin]

Mitch: My comment wasn't aimed directly at you, but it was brought on by your statement. However, your post succeeded in making me think, so now I can say I respect whatever view of God you do or don't have.

On the subject; I stand by my opinion, which if you'll go back a few pages, you'll find. But I want to say a little more.

Because I more or less feel like I'm representing a side here, I want to present my views on discrimination and other things that have been discussed here.

You all know the story. According to the Bible, homosexuality is wrong. I stand by that. However, the Bible also says that no man or woman has the right to pass judgement on any other. As I see it, neither should we discriminate against anyone who just so happens to hold a different view. In fact, I believe it's extremely harmful to a person's ministry if they pick and choose who they're willing to minister to. I personally hope I never reach that point of ministorial stagnation.

Vegitto4: You no doubt have your opinions, and you're entitled to them. However, I want you to remember while you're posting that you're not alone in your debating. By your actions and words, you're representing an entire side of this debate. I happen to be on that side. I'd be grateful if you'd be more considerate.

-Justin

[Lady Macaiodh]

[color=darkblue]In regards to trying to change things, or sit back & let them remain the same...

I experienced this exact thing when I was in high school. I was discriminated against for my sexuality (though I wasn't blatant about it, there were just a lot of rumors going around about me & my two friends). For some reason, maybe because I was the unofficial leader of the group, I was targeted over & over. The principal tried to kick me out of school & other things, & I was harassed big time by my peers.

So I took it to the school board. I told them of all the harassment I had received & demonstrated that it was not against the school rules to be gay or bi. It was kind of funny, because they wanted to be able to punish me but couldn't since it wasn't in the rulebook (whoever wrote it obviously never considered that a homosexual would ever attend their perfect Christian school, ironically).

I left the school anyway, mid-way through senior year, but I was still allowed to graduate. A bunch of people got suspended, the principal was fired, & the school board almost totally replaced. Not only did I consider it a personal victory, but things were a lot easier in future years to the friends I left behind & others I never got to meet.

Yeah, kids did continue to make fun of them some, but it was less people less viciously. And the teachers for once had to put a stop to it when they did hear about it. On the whole, things began moving in the right direction, even though gays & bis weren't really accepted yet.

So sometimes things can change, if you're willing to make the effort. In my case, I would have been expelled, so I was outraged. Action was the only option.[/color]

[vegeta rocker]

To James and Transtic Nerve, kudos for sticking up for your points of view in this thread.
Homosexuality has never been a topic that has only two points of view. People don't just think its right or wrong, its just one of those topics that is sure to get people fired up. It entails so many arguments such as discrimination,tolerance, religion and perhaps most of the all the opinion of wether it truly is a lifestyle of choice.

I personally have no problem with homosexuality in any form and find it a natural occurance. So now i will ofer my opinion on the area of wether it is a choice or not. Before i give it, it doesn't matter what sources were cited earlier for proving peoples comments. They are basically just using other peoples opinions to prove their own.

You may find this funny but i used to have a gay cat. Now there is a point to this, bear with me, now are you going to tell me that my cat was gay because of choice? Why would he choose to be gay? If you watch stuff on tv they usually say people choose to be gay because they are sinners or because they want the lifestyle. So i ask you, was my cat gay just to get in on the happening lifestyle? My cat is a sinner.

Don't get me wrong i am not comparing people to animals, but in this area it seems more then relevant. Besides, my cat is atheist as far as i know and will not go to hell for being who he is. Would you rather my cat denied his true nature and fathered kittens but was unhappy the rest of his life? The cat should embrace who he is and be happy.

If you think about it that way using a cat its much easier to understand it ones who say it isn't a choice. You can argue about human emotions all you like and popular belief, but when it's set down like this, the opinion isn't argued every line of the post.

[Defcon5]

First off I'd just like to point out that being gay is not a sin.

Ok now that i've said that, I think that Homosexuals are people just like anyone else and should be treated that way.

[Lady Macaiodh]

[color=darkblue]Actually, vegeta rocker, I've had gay pets before, too, but I didn't bring it up because I didn't think anybody would believe me!

But I [i]have[/i] witnessed gay behavior in animals many times, so I suppose it doesn't matter what species you are.[/color]

[Guest cloricus]

Allot of different animals display Homosexual behaviour. It is nothing new. Though Humans are one of the only species that has the occurrence with out a survival reason behind it.
(Dolphins are the same as us, they have no reason for it for survival purposes, but they have a different society where it is acceptable.)

It is a well studied thing and should not be viewed as shameful act by others. But we have our own society where it is not encouraged and is considered disgusting, this view has been echoed is religions and other belief patterns for centuries.
It may change or it may not.

Make up your own mind.

[black cat]

i have nothing agiants gay people. it's thier choice. not mine.

i have a few gay friends. and i'm proud of them because they arent afraid of what people say about them.

being straight, my turn on is 1 guy. not 2 not 4 not 20. just 1.

i hate how some males just can't except 1 female.



sorry if i offended any of you

[Washu Hakubi]

At least we're all being mature about this. I've heard how some people can talk about homosexuals. There was one guy on a message board (Can't remember which one) who had just come out and made his decision to tell the people on the board and there was one really sad individual who decided to rip the hell out of him. I think it's pathetic.
It's this same type of individual who flames others for making yaoi sites.

BTW In response to animals, think my two rabbits were gay... the scary thing was that they were brothers O_o'':laugh:

[vegeta rocker]

Okay whew! Someone else has a gay pet!
But that proves the point that it doesn't matter what species you are. Or even what religion.

[treton_noir]

i think my dog used to be gay. i think he changed his mind.

my psychology professor told us that animals cant be gay. she said they operate by sense of smell. i.e. when a male dog smells the scent of female-ness, he tries to do his thing, even if that smell is coming from another male dog (who might have been doing his thing with a female dog). they dont look down there to see whats going on. they just get the scent.

[vegeta rocker]

Except that my two cats had never come in contact with females. So that isn't possibe.

[Juu]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]TN, people dislike/hate/detest gay people.
[b][i]Accept it[/i][/b].
You, or any other gay person cannot change that. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=ff00cc] [size=1]You haven't met every person in the world. There is no way you can defend that.

Some of the gay/lesbian/bi people I've met have been some of the sweetest people I've met. When you say 'people dislike gay people' that's exactly how people labeled other races in the 60's.

A person's sexuality has no effect on their personality. Just because they like another sex doesn't mean they're just weird or inhuman. That's really immature, Cloricus.[/color][/size]

[DuoMax]

In my MHO, no one has the right to discriminate against anybody for their sexual preference.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DuoMax [/i]
[B]In my MHO, no one has the right to discriminate against anybody for their sexual preference. [/B][/QUOTE]
Why not?

[conpiracymonki]

[b][size=1]
Because it's a personal preference. It's like discriminating against someone because they don't like chocolate, or something.
It's crazy, doesn't make sense, and it's not fair.[/b]

One kid in our year is gay. And I think everyone in the school kinda realised that sexuality doesn't affect personality, when he just told everyone out of the blue that he was homosexual.[/size]

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AJeh [/i]
[B][b][size=1]
Because it's a personal preference. It's like discriminating against someone because they don't like chocolate, or something.
It's crazy, doesn't make sense, and it's not fair.[/b][size] [/B][/QUOTE]
It's not anything like who likes chocolate, and what makes it not fair? They are different aren't they?

[conpiracymonki]

[b][size=1]
You not liking chocolate is something I can't change, and it doesn't affect me in any way. It's a harmless personal preference too.

And how are they different again?[/b][/size]

[treton_noir]

[QUOTE]When you say 'people dislike gay people' that's exactly how people labeled other races in the 60's. [/QUOTE] i hate to say it, but racism doesnt relate to just the 60's. discrimination of all kinds seems to be an unavoidable and neverending thing.

[Juu]

[color=ff00cc] [size=1]That's true, and it's a sad thing.
I just think that's the closest major racism time-zone I could think of as an example. ><;

It's very true though, and I really wish people weren't so discriminated against people who were different from them. *sigh* I guess it's just all part of human nature. = \[/color] [/size]

[James]

[color=#808080]Tenton_Noir, I think your psychology teacher is wrong.

There is ample evidence that homosexuality occurs within animals. I remember once watching an episode of Donahue years ago, where they were discussing sexuality. A doctor was showing video tape of two male octopi mating -- they were [i]gay[/i] octopi (I think that's the plural of octopuss, please correct me if I'm wrong).

Of course, I think it's fair to say that we don't analyze our own pet's sexual behavior too closely. And the fact that it's not a majority of the population suggests that you're even less likely to spot that behavior.

I think homosexuality is nature's way of controlling population among species, really. That seems pretty logical to me -- and probably the best way of achieving population control.[/color]

[Guest cloricus]

James if that were true there would be a lot more gay people. In most species it is a survival thing. For example most female lions are lesbians. (I can't remember why... Wasn't paying to much attention to the doco.)

[quote]Juu
You haven't met every person in the world. There is no way you can defend that.
[/quote]
I haven't met everyone in the world, but I defend it this way.
Night after night in a channel I go to there are at least four people come in and start abusing the gay people in there. (Some times up to 30 a night) Every one from that channel is banned from at least 600 other channels on that server because we defend the gay people in our room. (Also for doing that we also get labelled gay.)
Now this happens all over the place and in real life, and the people doing this are just every day people. So I'm sorry for making the generalisation but it's just what I've observed.

[James]

[color=#808080]Cloricus, that is an absolutely inane observation. How on earth would that mean that there are more gay people in the world?

The gay sector of the community makes up about 10% of the population. Nobody is suggesting otherwise for other species. I'm saying that it's always a minority thing; it wouldn't be useful to have 50% of the population as homosexuals. That would be counterproductive. It needs to be a small enough percentage so that it doesn't cause a big impact (but enough of an impact).

My idea about it being natural for [i]that reason[/i] (population control) is, I think, logical. But I'm not saying that it's right. I'm just saying that might be a reason. [/color]