treton_noir Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 "People are gay. ***** find guys attractive, that makes me gay."-Lalaith Ril well... i think brad pitt is the hottest man alive... and chris cornell(soundgarden, audioslave) is pretty freakin hot, too. im in no way homosexual. i just find them pleasant to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by treton_noir [/i] [B]"People are gay. ***** find guys attractive, that makes me gay."-Lalaith Ril well... i think brad pitt is the hottest man alive... and chris cornell(soundgarden, audioslave) is pretty freakin hot, too. im in no way homosexual. i just find them pleasant to look at. [/B][/QUOTE] Thats because you're comfortable with your sexuality. Seph would say the same thing, in fact Seph would look at yaoi on many occations, and yet he's straight as can be (Married and now has a beautiful daughter... she's almost a year old now... in a few months lol) Straight men can easily find any other man attractive... that, like you said, doesn't make them gay. What I think makes someone gay is not a sexual attraction, but a sensual. You can find Brad Pitt attractive, but could you date him? Live with him the rest of your life, kiss and make love to him? Thats what I think makes someone gay. The sensual attraction of love to someone, not just a physical attraction of what "looks sexy" to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted February 22, 2003 Author Share Posted February 22, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B] What I think makes someone gay is not a sexual attraction, but a sensual. You can find Brad Pitt attractive, but could you date him? Live with him the rest of your life, kiss and make love to him? Thats what I think makes someone gay. The sensual attraction of love to someone, not just a physical attraction of what "looks sexy" to them. [/B][/QUOTE] [COLOR=darkblue]Yes! I completely agree. I've been trying to explain this to people for years. If you couldn't fall in love & be partners with someone of the same sex then you're not gay. But some people just freak out when they find someone attractive. Yeesh! I think there are a lot of guys out there who are attracted to other guys or find them hot, but they refuse to admit it... even to themselves. They won't even allow it to enter their minds because they think it means they could be gay, when in reality it doesn't mean that at all![/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orien_Xel Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 [color=blue]I find it very sad that people can look at someone, and say "They're diffrent. They must not be as good as I am." or "If my religion says you're wrong, and that you're evil and diffirent, you are." It is just so amazingly sad. All the people that hate people should go live on an island together, that way they wouldn't bother the rest of us.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 What the hell is wrong with you people, you say that a guy and a guy is the same as a girl and a guy. That it's not different. Who are you kidding? Even the way they both have sex is different. Gay people and straight people are different, and I as sure as hell hope they were otherwise why make the distinction. But as always this is not the question. The question is, is that difference acceptable and/or desirable in our society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan L Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i] [B]You know Duo they're gonna say that its us that ourselves that way. They'll say the devil created sin and we gave in to it. God didn't create it.[/B][/QUOTE] And who exactly do you think created the Devil?.. The Devil was once an Angel (or so I gather) but fell into Darkness.. I can gather that from the few references to Him in the Bible, without needing the actual story behind it (though I've briefly skimmed a few online Deuterocanonical texts, which may or may not be accurate) The thing is, what makes good "good" if there is no "bad" to oppose it.. Sin has always been around.. the Devil just makes it look more tempting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 [color=#808080]Let's not make this a discussion about the history of religion, please. As for Cloricus' comment...well, you're kinda wrong about straight and gay people being different. The love/sensuality (as TN was referring to) that either a gay person or a straight person may feel for another is absolutely identical. The only difference is the object of your affection. So, imagine if I was in love with a gorgeous girl and you were in love with an ugly girl. That would be like saying "My love is more pure than yours because my girlfriend has different genetics to yours", or something. What I'm saying, is that things like sexuality and race are differences in the very same category as the difference between eye colour or hair type. The question is not whether these differences are acceptable (of course they are, but even if they weren't, who are [i]you[/i] to decide what is acceptable in society?), but whether or not we choose to use these differences to discriminate against another human being. Moreover, the question is whether or not we choose to focus on these differences, rather than judge a person by the content of their character. You won't have the right answer until you have the right [i]question[/i].[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subversive Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Duo Maxwell [/i] [B] I'd like you to ask yourself something, what would Jesus do if he met a homosexual? He wouldn't turn him away, he'd talk with them and accept them. [/B][/QUOTE] Jesus did meet homosexuals, this isn't a new thing people. And no he wouldn't turn them away, he would talk with them and accept them. But does that mean he thinks its right, no. Jesus talked with prostitutes, tax collecters, the possessed, etc. Just because someones a sinner doesn't mean he'd turn them away. I never said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boothten Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Juuthena [/i] [B][color=ff00cc] [size=1]I have absolutely no problem with people being Bi, Gay, or Lesbian. Alot of times, people use the word 'gay' as meaning 'stupid', and that's really not very funny to me. I actually find that quite childish when people just run around saying, 'you're gay!' just like, 'you're stupid'. It may be a choice for people to be Bi or homosexual, but alot of times, a girl may be born with boy hormones, or a boy with a girl's. Sometimes they're just naturally born that way. Besides, it shouldn't matter in a friendship of what sex they're attracted to anyway. Although... I hate it when people say they're bi/homosexual just to get attention, and then say it's not true. I've had someone at my school do that two years ago, except he was in the seventh grade at the time. People shouldn't see people differently just because of that. That's pretty much discrimination, and not very different than racially judging people.[/color] [/size] [/B][/QUOTE] [COLOR=silver]I have to agree with Juu here. I have [i]no[/i] problems with them. The whole "You're gay man" thing is just childish. I guess what I'm trying to say here is: I would have no problem on having a gay [b]friend[/b]. I'm just not going to go to him/her and say "you can't go out with a guy cuz your a guy" I don't comtrol their lives. :)[/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven's Cloud Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B] Thats what I think makes someone gay. The sensual attraction of love to someone, not just a physical attraction of what "looks sexy" to them. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]That is what I have been telling people for years. I mean, just because I find myself attracted to, well, myself, doesn't mean I am gay. I am not sensually attracted to me. Therefore, I am not gay, I am just really, really shallow and narcissistic.:p[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treton_noir Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 "Jesus did meet homosexuals..."-SpyderDragon *in a completely intellectual and non-confrontational tone* how do you know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by treton_noir [/i] [B]"Jesus did meet homosexuals..."-SpyderDragon *in a completely intellectual and non-confrontational tone* how do you know this? [/B][/QUOTE] Perhaps the bible says it? Yes, the only difference between gay people and straight people is the fact gay people find their own sex attractive. Last I checked, plenty of straight people have anal sex, so you can't even throw that argument at me. The way we feel towards that person, the way we act around that person, the meaning behind the reason we make love to that person is the exact same as any straight person who oves their partner. Cloricus, you can't understand. You're not gay. You have NO idea what we think. The only reason we know what you (meaning straight people) think is because we get it crammed down our throat day in and day out. It's automatically assumed in life that you're straight. It's like "everything is traight, unless otherwise noted"... lol. It's ridiculous. The only time a straight person will ever know what a gay person thinks, is if they actually take the time to get to know one and get to know the way they act around their partner... My best friend knows how I think. Why? Because he has known me for almost 10 years. He's seen how I act around my boyfriends. I don't consider my friend a normal straight guy. He has a girlfriend, they've been together 3 years now. They live together. And he has a best friend who is gay. Not many straight people can say that. Not many straight people knows what he knows about me and being gay. If you asked him if the way i felt towards someone else was different, he'd absolutely tell you no. Why? because I do the same thing he does with his girlfriend... I kiss, I hug, I go to movies, I argue, I LOVE. There is no difference with love. It's one thing... love is one thing that differs in no such way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subversive Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B]Perhaps the bible says it? Yes, the only difference between gay people and straight people is the fact gay people find their own sex attractive. Last I checked, plenty of straight people have anal sex, so you can't even throw that argument at me. The way we feel towards that person, the way we act around that person, the meaning behind the reason we make love to that person is the exact same as any straight person who oves their partner. Cloricus, you can't understand. You're not gay. You have NO idea what we think. The only reason we know what you (meaning straight people) think is because we get it crammed down our throat day in and day out. It's automatically assumed in life that you're straight. It's like "everything is traight, unless otherwise noted"... lol. It's ridiculous. The only time a straight person will ever know what a gay person thinks, is if they actually take the time to get to know one and get to know the way they act around their partner... My best friend knows how I think. Why? Because he has known me for almost 10 years. He's seen how I act around my boyfriends. I don't consider my friend a normal straight guy. He has a girlfriend, they've been together 3 years now. They live together. And he has a best friend who is gay. Not many straight people can say that. Not many straight people knows what he knows about me and being gay. If you asked him if the way i felt towards someone else was different, he'd absolutely tell you no. Why? because I do the same thing he does with his girlfriend... I kiss, I hug, I go to movies, I argue, I LOVE. There is no difference with love. It's one thing... love is one thing that differs in no such way. [/B][/QUOTE] Yes it is in the Bible. I totally agree, saying homosexuals don't love eachother is assanine, love is basically the same in every form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treton_noir Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 "Perhaps the bible says it?"-TN thank you, Captain Obvious. J/K ^_^ "Yes it is in the Bible."-SpyderDragon i meant more specifically where in the Bible this is to be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Meh, it's all good. Treton if you want to find some thing to disprove any thing you want in the bible just randomly flick to a page, put your finger down on the word and read for about ten to twenty words. In most cases those words you read will be able to say any thing you want them to say. Don't you just love how you can twist the bible to say what you want it to. (Yes this is the same as quoting bible passages.) This method has been tested under boring RE class conditions for your amusement, and is approved by four out of seven extremely bored students! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemolth Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Okay, here's something to ponder on. Its kinda tricky, and you do need to think about it carefully, and there are some [i]very[/i] adult themes. So you have been warned. You do require an open mind, and an ability to step into another person's shoes. A broad frame of mind based on rationality and principles rather than pure emotion. What is the criteria by which we accept love (and here I speak of the romantic sensual kind)? If we believe that love itself is sufficient, and as long as there is love, then everything is okay, my question is where does that stop? And why? In terms of bestiality, why would that not be okay? Its clear that if a person forces themselves on an animal, then its not a mutual act. But what if there is no clear sign that the action is coerced? How can you tell what the animal is feeling or thinking? One argument would be that people are different from animals, that they are endowed with a 'soul' (for the religious) or some special cognitive ability (for the atheists) that separates them from beasts. It is this unique characteristic of human beings that allows them to love, so animals, no matter how intelligent or affectionate, cannot surmount this barrier. The other obvious relationship to consider is incest. If we assume that both people are capable of consent, ie there are no power imbalances and they are both adults, then why would such a relationship be forbidden? Take the situation of a brother and sister born and separated a birth, and each does not know of the existence of the other. By coincidence they find each other and fall in love. They then find out they are siblings. Why would that kind of love not be accepted? Be careful here, because if this is accepted, the principle, by extension can also apply to brother to brother, sister to sister, father to daughter, mother to son, etc. The bestiality rationale doesn't apply here because they are both humans. If the sole basis of the acceptance of a relationship is the existence of love, then there should be no difference between incest, or gay or straight people. Its all love. There is no reason, on principle, that you would reject this kind of love. There are of course practical problems. In the real world many of these relationship are fraught with power imbalances, between father and daughter, mother and son, etc. There are also genetic reasons why close relatives should not breed. But, provided there are no power imbalances, and as for the genetic question, if you accept gay people you have already dismissed the genetic abnormality rationale because gay people cannot have kids by themselves anyway. So what I'm trying to say here is simple. If you accept gay love based on the criterion of love alone, then you must accept incestuous love. And frankly, I don't think many on this Board could honestly do that. So why make a special exemption for gay people? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 [color=darkblue]I can't believe that so many people are still this close minded. Christians are idiots, gay people are perverted... I can't believe Mnemolth even compared it to incest. That's just reaching. And cloricus, my respect for you after this & other recent threads is practically non-existant. You could at least try to explain your side of things without taking everything you read totally out of context. Treton wasn't even trying to disprove anything, he just wanted to see where the Bible said Jesus met gay people! God! It's like you'll take any excuse to bash Christians, which makes you no better than all the racists, homophobes, sexists, etc. I just wish you had empathy for other people's situations or beliefs, for once. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i] [B]So what I'm trying to say here is simple. If you accept gay love based on the criterion of love alone, then you must accept incestuous love. And frankly, I don't think many on this Board could honestly do that. So why make a special exemption for gay people? :D [/B][/QUOTE] Thats quite possibly the most prejudice thing I've ever read. It just prooves how insanely stupid and irrational you are. You better be plain happy I don't ban you for that alone. You sound like a politician who makes stupid comments like Tent Lot and Strom Thermon. Let me NEVER EVER read anything like that again. And please, from now on, if you don't know what you're talking about, please SHUT THE HELL UP.... thank you :D For future refrence, everyone would laugh at you if you said that in public. Comparing being gay to falling in love with a sibling. I could make the same accusation about straight people, but I don't. Why? Because there is no comparison. Just like theres none with gay people. I'm not going to say this again. YOU KNOW NOTHING about gay people. The only difference is we fall in love with the same sex. Just like you fall in love with the opposite. No other difference exist and your inane and absolutely horrific post prooves nothing but how incredibly DENSE and PATHETIC you are. Here I thought maybe you matured somewhat, but I see thats not the case. You're as stupid as you were when I couldn't stand you before. Go join the KKK if you're gonna say something like that you f*ckin pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semjaza Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by treton_noir [/i] [B]look, you ignorant bastard. im not f*cking disproving anything. i just asked what the f*cking reference was. i wanted to read the passage and see how it was worded. [/B][/QUOTE] It's in Leveticus. A book most people would consider archaic at this point. It basically says that any man that lays down with another should be killed (I believe stoned if I remember correctly). However the book basicly also implies slavery is okay as well (as long as you don't sleep with your slaves). So we can see how [i]useful[/i] that is . It's just picking context that fits someone's agenda really. I'm not going to get into the rest of this. I don't judge people if I can help it. If I do, it's based on their personalities and how they treat me and those I care for. I have gay friends, I don't feel I treat them any different than any of my other friends. Their sexual preference is none of my concern and I think some of the opinions in here are horribly slanted, idiotic, disciminatory and any other word you'd like to use. Of course it's your opinion, so who am I to change it? I'll just leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 [color=teal][quote]Lady Macaiodh And cloricus, my respect for you after this & other recent threads is practically non-existent.[/quote] Meh, I did this a few pages back and I'm sort of just popping in and out to make some comments. As for respect I really don't care who you respect, you can respect Satan for all I care. Clear? [quote]Nor Look, you ignorant bastard. im not f*cking disproving anything. i just asked what the f*cking reference was. i wanted to read the passage and see how it was worded.[/quote] Dude, TAKE A JOKE. Though since I guess you don?t have a sense of houmer(sp?) I asked some friends. [i]Leviticus...but i don't know exactly what verse.....and deuteronomy....and in the new testament as well[/i] And this [i][Leviticus 20:13] If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. [1 Corinthians 6:9] Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [Romans 1:27] In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.[/i] All from people in the Christian channel. As for Mnemolth, some animals are as smart as humans. Dolphins and humans have about the same amount of processing power in their brains. Christian bashing!!! LOL Hmm, I think that it has nothing to do with racists, homophobes, sexists and all the others. Besides deep down I am a Christian so leave me alone. (Yes Liam, I am. Well sort of that thing where your not sure if it?s the right thing to believe in but you haven?t found any thing better so you feel like its better off to just stay with what you know.)[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 [color=#808080]Mnemolth: The fact that you can't draw some sort of line between something like beastiality and homosexuality is [i]very[/i] surprising. What happened to the years of wisdom that you continually remind us that you posess? We are constantly being reminded, in some form or another, that you are so much [i]older[/i] than everyone here. The implication being, of course, that you know better somehow. Your most recent post is a blatant example that this is not the case. I don't even need to dignify it by responding; if you can't tell the difference between the elements that you mentioned...there is little hope for you, ma boy. lol Cloricus: What's your point? I refer you to Semjaza's post. If you're going to take the Bible's comments on homosexuality as something to live by, then you must also take the Bible's references to slavery, incest and cannibalism as being parts of your every day life that are endorsed by the good book. Don't pick and choose. It's hypocritical and it's a form of selective logic; the Ku Klux Klan does exactly what you're doing. They pick and choose what they want to push forward and happily ignore the various contradictions in their own arguments. Really, there is no reason or justification for these type of statements. If I start referring to the Wahabi (I think that's what it's called; please correct me if I'm wrong) school if islam and I tell you that your wife will never be allowed to leave the house without your consent as her husband...you'd call me crazy. If I told you that it was unnatural for you to allow your wife to leave the house without you beside her, you'd call me insane. There is absolutely no difference between this and your Bible references. And to try and justify one over the other is to say that [i]your[/i] religion is right and all others are wrong. And that, of course, would reveal yet another flaw in your reasoning. So [i]don't[/i] even try to use the Bible as a reference text book on this issue. I can play that game too; and I can start giving you all kinds of orders from God that you MUST follow, lest you be classified as "unnatural".[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 [color=teal]Now I feel like nor. Jamez read it properly, at least I was joking with the comments I said to nor... Treton_noir asked for the bible quotes, I posted them. I [i]never[/i] said I believe or disbelieve in them.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted February 26, 2003 Author Share Posted February 26, 2003 [color=darkblue]For... the... last... time... Treton wanted to know where in the Bible it says that [i]Jesus met gay people![/i] Please get this straight, people, before I have to bash my skull through the wall.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 [color=#808080]Oh great, Cloricus. So now I'm supposed to know when you're joking and when you're serious? It's not even worth bringing up those quotes; if you're going to post here, don't mess around with people...just have a proper debate. It's not that hard. lol[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 [color=teal]Where Jesus met gay people? Sorry I had the wrong question then. Talking to the same friends again, we don't think he did. He did meet "sinners" in general, it doesn't define their specific sins. I hope that answers your question nor, though the New Testament is riddled with anti-gay people talk. I don't think Jesus specifically met any that were recorded. [Added] James what the heck are you on about. Nor wanted the quotes to see where it said in the bible it said that Jesus met gay people, I was just trying to answer that. It has nothing [b]AT ALL[/b] to do with what I believe or what I think I was simply supplying what he wanted to know. I?m not going to go in to my position on the bible or religion because this is the wrong thread. All I was doing was giving information to do with the topic that I had access to so don?t get all cockie with me. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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