Funding pre-college education is money down the drain

[Sara]

[size=1]It's one thing to hold a controversial opinion and support it. It is quite another to be a contrary bastard for the sheer hell of being a contrary bastard.

You're only allowed to to that it you're funny.

You, sirs, are not.[/size]

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]All right dude, I know that you purposely take controversial stances, but this post demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of urban America and its educational system.[/b][/quote]

I don't see how you can state that you know what I'm doing, then react in a manner like this. If I was trolling like you said I was, you should have enough sense to realize that I would leave out things and make gross generalizations, but you don't seem to.

[quote]How can you automatically put down so many people and dismiss so many issues? Your comments reflect the notion that social policy in the United States, concerning poor and black children has been turned back [i]several[/i] decades.[/quote]
To be honest do you think Black people have moved up in status?

[quote]Have you ever seen the filth and despair in these places firsthand?[/quote]
Yes I have actually. You assume that because I'm white and I don't talk like black people do (admit they say words that white people don't) that i'm magically upper middle class, well I went all the way up to 8th grade to these filthy and despairing places where nobody wants to learn, and the teachers don't want to teach for that matter.

[quote]Have you talked with the young children forced to go to these death zones?[/quote]
Death zones? That's just simple exagerating there. The only time a kid would be in trouble is if they join a gang, which is their choice.

[quote]Young children aren't lazy and stupid. Give me a break. They [i]want[/i] to learn.Kids make so many observations and judgments--those are the most influential years.[/quote]
That's just a generalization right there.

[quote]Maybe if you grew up in a city with no obstetric services, no regular trash collection, and few jobs, you wouldn't exactly be motivated either. When I studied urban areas, I found that a lot of urban families earn about $7500 dollars a year (I'm sure my memory serves me right there).[/quote]
You do realize that is almost impossible to live off of right? That is way below minimum wage with a 42 hour work week.

[quote] Or have you had rats as big as puppies run across your feet?[/quote]
Have you? Could you give me some examples where you can find a place like this?

[quote]So, what hope do these kids have?[/quote]
The Army. If you didn't know, the Army is a great place to get an education in a certain field. They'll train you for 2 years of service and give you 50,000 dollars for college. But I guess we wouldn't want that, you would just want them to waste their time in high school.

[quote]Why should they graduate high school? It's utter hopelessness. All they have to look forward to is a sh*t job, even if they do graduate. A diploma from a decrepit hulk of a building isn't worth anything. They don't have the proper education to get into college. Their teachers don't teach. Some tell them to put their heads down, or play poker with them. Of course, the proper materials aren't provided. Everyone doesn't have the luxury of owning a book--they have to take turns. If teachers care enough to give assignments and homework, one child will do it Monday, while another child will have to complete the assignment Tuesday. Some schools are so crowded and impoverished that they can't afford classrooms for fourth graders, so they're crammed into the same room with choir class. But, that's okay. It's their faults because they're not innocent children born into that hell. They're lazy and worthless. Right? That's probably why they've had strings of substitutes instead of a full-time teacher since the kindergarten.[/quote]
I don't see why you're so shook up over this. Instead of them wasting their time at these horrible schools you describe, I say ship them off to military school where they'll get a good education. But no you come here and moan about these schools and how my idea is a bad one. Atleast I give suggestions to fix this, but you just say it's a bad idea and give no ideas of your own.

[quote][b]Yeah, so why don't you give your BS to kids who have to choose between a glass of milk when they're three, or a glass of milk when they're seven? Harry or Jenni wouldn't have thought that children in America would ever have to choose between a teacher or a playground or sufficient toilet paper, though. I mean, why would that cross their minds? They've probably never stumbled upon a huge hole in the ceiling of their stairwell where the plaster is gone, exposing rusted metal bars embedded in the outside wall. They've probably never had water cascading down their stairs, either.

There are no community centers to play in and the streets are sometimes flooded with sewage in these areas. There's nothing else to do but have sex and do drugs. It's decimation, people. Many births are to single mothers. Where do the men go? Some--early death. Others--sleep in the street, or in isolated camps behind burnt-out buildings. That's a future [i]forced[/i] on them. No one wants to live like that. So don't bring that up in here. Especially when you target black kids in particular. It isn't their culture to speak poorly and fail. They haven't a damn choice.

I'm sorry, but this thread is just too much for me and I'm really offended by it. [/B][/QUOTE]
Once again you go rambling on about how i'm a horrible person for giving these kids a good education. You really do confuse me. First you say that you know that I'm a troll (shocking to say the least), but then you start getting offended even though you know what the sole purpose of a troll is. Then you complain to me about being stereotypical, but then you assume I've gone to good schools/private schools. You yell at me about their horrible conditions, even though I am giving them a good start to enter the work force. Maybe you completely misinterpretted my post, maybe you didn't read it and was replying to Jenni, all I can say is make up your mind please.

[Yu Yu Hakusho!]

Oh god....someone PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD!!!!!

I DESPISE these threads where people start cursing at each other and mocking cultures...races...etc.....

First of all, you say ONE damn thing about anyone, White, Black, Blue, Orange....you WILL get your ***** chewed out by me or someone else here!!!

And no, it's not the "mean ol' white man's fault" folks.....it's our society we live in today, along with our $hitty government.


I have SO much to say about this, about how wrong Harry was to post this thread in the first place, and Jenni to start swaring like there is no tommorow. I knew this would lead to hell. I was afraid that someone would start a racial thread sometime and here it is.

You know, it's not black people's fault that they "live in the ghetto" or all of that other racial crap. It's not white people's fault either. I'm not positive who's fault it is so I'm not going to start pointing fingers up everyone's *****.

It's not just black people that live "in the ghetto" or speak ebonics, or go to bad schools, or live in bad areas with lots of crime and poor living conditions....Whites, Asians, Hispanic....everyone. Not one thing is directed to one race or colored people, unless you're some damn racist.

You know, if I say one more word, I know Jenni or someone is going to freak out and start crying....so I'm done with this. Too much to say and so little patience....

You know Jenni and Harry....it's a little late, but don't EVER post something like this again. It leads to ME griping plus everyone else at the boards. But it's a little late now.
You guys have made a lot of enemies....and now I'm afraid that a lot have bad opinions of you guys.....

By the way Jenni....you spell multiplication "multiplication..." ;)

Enough of this babble.

Mods, please close this.

Thanks...
-Lauren

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]And that's coming from a mod too... how disappointing. I'll reply to your whopper of a post in another post. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes. It's disappointing that a twenty-one year old guy can lose his composure for the first time on a message board by pointing out how horrendous your post was. If your posts were somewhat reasonable I wouldn't mind, but you seem to be purposely attacking blacks in an attempt to spark controversy. I find [i]that[/i] more disappointing than my candid assessment of your opinions.

So, yes, please refute my points intelligently--something that I have not seen yet in this thread. I'm interested in knowing why children don't deserve more windows in their brick prisons. I want to know why it is acceptable for two first grade classes to share a single room without a window, divided only by a blackboard. I want to know why a second grade bilingual class of 37 children has its own room, but there is no window. Why shouldn't children have a decent playground to play in after lunch? It can't be because they are not deserving. That's unfair.

And I know, Jenni, that you were talking about High School, but education begins somewhere. I say that more funding should be provided to cities. I say that we should give these children a reason to want to succeed. Let's give them jobs to pursue. Let's clean up their streets and give them decent schools, and a chance to be equal.

That is, instead of trying to be controversial for our own personal agendas on a message board. It seems to me like you create these topics with the intention of being attacked so that people will feel sorry for you.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]If your posts were somewhat reasonable I wouldn't mind, but you seem to be purposely attacking blacks in an attempt to spark controversy. [/B][/QUOTE]
You completely didn't see the point of my post then.

[Chaos]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]You completely didn't see the point of my post then. [/B][/QUOTE]


And you did not get his. He is stating, quite obviously, that you are judging what you see in front of you wrongly. Maybe if you opened your eyes to the fact that your deluded little world isn't what it seems, and that this 'different world' that you paint for us is wrongly accused. Don't judge what you don't understand. I'll say that point no more. I hope if finally gets through you damn, thick skull.

[Kent]

Well I gotta say, I really appreciate your willingness to address such a difficult problem in todays society.

In many ways I feel very similar to you.

I also want to stress the fact that there are many of these children who are falling into these problems of culture and with that, they are only worsening their own situation.

We need to start development on morals and ethics, not the aspects of popular culture that are taken for being valuable qualities.

Military school is an excellent idea, but unfortunatly, there are people who oppose the idea of the government giving people money to spend on their own choice of schools.

I think addressing these problems in an open way is the first step towards correcting these problems... not the politically correct tip-toeing around on the subject.

[Guest Anakin Solo]

[b]By the way Jenni....you spell multiplication "multiplication..."[/b]

Already brought to her attention. ;-) Read my post. :D Apparently she doesn't care.

But man....I really love what CWB and Semjaza are doing here. It is brilliant men at their fullest. :D And I totally agree with them.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Medra [/i]
[B]And you did not get his. [/b][/quote]
How am I supposed to get a point based on a point that he did not understand?

[quote] Maybe if you opened your eyes to the fact that your deluded little world isn't what it seems, and that this 'different world' that you paint for us is wrongly accused.[/quote]

Which one is that? The typical white fantasy world where all black people are stupid? Now you're accusing me of being some stupid white racist huh?

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jenni [/i]
[B]wow... I wished I gave a **** about how i spelled [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#808080]Give it a try. I'm not very pleased with your behavior, Jenni. Pull your head in.

As for the topic, I think Harry's initial post is kind of pointless. The problem with schools is that teachers are [i]already[/i] giving up on students. It's not so much a problem with the students themselves.

Some schools need more money because they get an unfair percentage of Government funds; the money isn't used to purchase fairy dust, it's used to purchase text books, equipment (science equipment, books, pencils, etc) and of course, it's used to hire teachers.

It's not very mature or reasonable to simply say "those kids don't deserve education if they behave that way". [i]Every[/i] child deserves education. Being childishly dismissive about the problem isn't going to solve it.

The key is not just more money though. The key is to find out how that money is spent and to ensure that it's spent [i]properly[/i].

Also, this isn't just about schools. It's about parents. Parents need to read with their kids...they need to help their kids through homework and they need to really provide strong support for their children. Unfortunately, not enough parents are doing that.[/color]

[Harry]

Everyone knows that you learn things at military school right? Everyone thinks that I'm saying "give up on them."

[Chaos]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]Now you're accusing me of being some stupid white racist huh? [/B][/QUOTE]


You did that on your own.


To the matter of military school, by the way, guess what? It doesn't do ****. I've been to Boot Camp, and you want to know something? The sarges and privates and generals there cannot MAKE you do anything. By law, they cannot lay a finger on you. And if they do [which one cocky private did to me], you can defend yourself. Boot Camp and military school are only worth your money if you do what they tell you. If you'd get off your suburban asses, you'd realize that.

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Medra [/i]
[B]You did that on your own.


To the matter of military school, by the way, guess what? It doesn't do ****. I've been to Boot Camp, and you want to know something? The sarges and privates and generals there cannot MAKE you do anything. By law, they cannot lay a finger on you. And if they do [which one cocky private did to me], you can defend yourself. Boot Camp and military school are only worth your money if you do what they tell you. If you'd get off your suburban asses, you'd realize that. [/B][/QUOTE]
Maybe you stood up to them, but I doubt everyone will. And if you choose to do nothing at military school, why even allow them to be educated? Atleast at military school you can ensure that they aren't doing all the horrible things Crazy white boy said.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]Everyone knows that you learn things at military school right? Everyone thinks that I'm saying "give up on them." [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#808080]No, if you'd read my post, you'd realize that I was referring to Jenni's comments on the subject.

Some kids might need military school, sure. I concur with that; especially the more troubled kids.

But we can't start forcing kids into schools that the Government chooses. That's wrong. Of course some kids will fall through the cracks; but military school is the easy solution. It's better for us to focus on ways of repairing the already damaged public education system.[/color]

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#808080]Give it a try. I'm not very pleased with your behavior, Jenni. Pull your head in.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh my, forgive me for being myself. *bows*

K, I had this long *** post, but then the server went down.. here it is, Just cuz I want it there

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B]No, I've not met someone who can read what amounts to a page and half of text, actually [i]comprehend[/i] it (which is the key word here) and address its points. I've still yet to see that.[/B][/QUOTE]

:sticks out hand: I'm Jen. Nice to meet you too...
I'm making a generalization about this forum. In the picture forum, all of you say someone is pretty or handsome, or sexy, when I get the aura that you don't really mean it. Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows, but ego boosting does seem popular here. Some of you are overly depressed, some of you are overly happy. There doesn't seem to be too much of a medium, so that's why I'm here... I'm both extremes lol

Medra: Military school only helps some kinds of people, you seem to be a good person, maybe you didnt need it

Gokents... I love you..... You're my hero lol

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]I don't see how you can state that you know what I'm doing, then react in a manner like this. If I was trolling like you said I was, you should have enough sense to realize that I would leave out things and make gross generalizations, but you don't seem to.[/b][/quote]

Oh, but you [i]do[/i] make gross generalizations. You claim that urban children struggle "because the kids are lazy, stupid, and mischievous. If you look at black urban culture, it's all about speaking poorly and causing trouble."

How do you know this? Where is your proof? Where are your statistics that prove the mentality of urban children are naturally inferior to that of upper and middle class children?


[quote][b]To be honest do you think Black people have moved up in status?[/b][/quote]

In many ways no. They are underrepresented in government, maintain a higher poverty rate than whites, die earlier, and receive worse education.

Do I think it's because they're biologically inferior? Hell no. But, elitists like you seem to. Your solutions to these problems are not realistic. They largely rely on singling out a specific group and forcing harsh consequences on them. According to your post, urban children aren't worth our time. It's that simple.

[b][quote]Yes I have actually. You assume that because I'm white and I don't talk like black people do (admit they say words that white people don't) that i'm magically upper middle class, well I went all the way up to 8th grade to these filthy and despairing places where nobody wants to learn, and the teachers don't want to teach for that matter. [/b][/quote]

I never said that you were white. My comments have nothing to do with your skin color. My comments are directed at your lack of understanding.

You said it yourself. The places are filthy and despairing. What do the children have to look forward to? What can they really accomplish on dated programs with insufficient materials? And...if the teachers don't want to teach, that's the stake through the heart.

Refer to my other post. We need to give these children dignity--the feeling of self worth and not only reasons to succeed, but the means as well.

[b][quote]Death zones? That's just simple exagerating there. The only time a kid would be in trouble is if they join a gang, which is their choice.[/b][/quote]

Is it? Tell that to little girls that to the family of small girls that are raped and murdered behind stores.

If one doesn't join the gangs, do you not think that the gangs will target that person? You can't possibly dismiss the danger of these streets.

And the definition of death zone isn't limited to crime. Lead levels found in the soil or certain urban areas are chilling. By the time the poisoning becomes apparent in a child's sleep disorders, stomach pains and hyperactive behavior, it's too late to undo the permanent brain damage. The poison chips away at the learning potential of kids whose potential has already been chipped away by their environment.


[b][quote]You do realize that is almost impossible to live off of right? That is way below minimum wage with a 42 hour work week. [/quote][/b]

Exactly.

[b][quote] Have you? Could you give me some examples where you can find a place like this?[/b][/quote]

Try Camden New Jersey or East St. Lewis. For that matter, try any area that has felt the wrath of ghettoization--where trash isn't picked up.

[b][quote]The Army. If you didn't know, the Army is a great place to get an education in a certain field. They'll train you for 2 years of service and give you 50,000 dollars for college. But I guess we wouldn't want that, you would just want them to waste their time in high school.[/b][/quote]

I'm not disregarding the quality of military education, but I do not feel that we should round up a particular group of people and shuffle them off to military school because they don't deserve the proper funding to succeed in the public schooling system. That selection is unfair and racist. [i]Everyone[/i] deserves the same opportunity. So, if we're going to ship urban children off to military school, all middle to upper class whites should fall into the same program.

[b][quote]I don't see why you're so shook up over this. Instead of them wasting their time at these horrible schools you describe, I say ship them off to military school where they'll get a good education. But no you come here and moan about these schools and how my idea is a bad one. Atleast I give suggestions to fix this, but you just say it's a bad idea and give no ideas of your own.[/b][/quote]

I put forward ideas. Urban areas are in great need of revitalization and restoration. Politicians need to care and provide proper funding.

[b][quote]Once again you go rambling on about how i'm a horrible person for giving these kids a good education. You really do confuse me. First you say that you know that I'm a troll (shocking to say the least), but then you start getting offended even though you know what the sole purpose of a troll is. Then you complain to me about being stereotypical, but then you assume I've gone to good schools/private schools. You yell at me about their horrible conditions, even though I am giving them a good start to enter the work force. Maybe you completely misinterpretted my post, maybe you didn't read it and was replying to Jenni, all I can say is make up your mind please. [/B][/QUOTE]

Who's rambling now? lol. I never attacked your person. I am attacking your stance and your personal agenda. You put forth ideas that seem benevolent on the surface, that are, in reality, laced with racism and stereotypes. I never even assumed you've attended private schools. Many students in the public education system are oblivious to the harsh reality I'm painting out for you. How many middle class people visit these areas?

It's your opinions that are elitist. Your solutions are always forced upon a specific group of people. They never remedy the real problems. And I also find it funny that you were disappointed with me saying that you were acting like a jackass, but you failed to mention how disappointed you were with Jenni bypassing the swear censor.

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]And I also find it funny that you were disappointed with me saying that you were acting like a jackass, but you failed to mention how disappointed you were with Jenni bypassing the swear censor. [/B][/QUOTE]

What the **** are you talking about? God forbid, I swear... I'm gonna go to hell man.... I'm so scared

Get a hold of yourself. Swearing isn't a crime, so get over it... either that or sit on it and rotate.

[James]

[color=#808080]Jenni, that's the absolute last warning you're going to get from me.

Swearing IS against the rules here. And your attitude toward other members is most unwelcome. It's your choice; if you want to remain at this site you're going to have to learn to be a little more gracious to fellow members.[/color]

[Harry]

[quote]Do I think it's because they're biologically inferior? Hell no. But, elitists like you seem to. Your solutions to these problems are not realistic. They largely rely on singling out a specific group and forcing harsh consequences on them. According to your post, urban children aren't worth our time. It's that simple. [/quote]
Did I say that? Certainly not.


[quote]I never said that you were white. My comments have nothing to do with your skin color. My comments are directed at your lack of understanding.[/quote]
I understand quite well.

[quote]You said it yourself. The places are filthy and despairing. What do the children have to look forward to? What can they really accomplish on dated programs with insufficient materials? And...if the teachers don't want to teach, that's the stake through the heart. [/quote]
They can look forward to going off to military schools to get away from the horrible living conditions and the gangs.


[quote]Is it? Tell that to little girls that to the family of small girls that are raped and murdered behind stores.

If one doesn't join the gangs, do you not think that the gangs will target that person? You can't possibly dismiss the danger of these streets.[/quote]
That's true, but gangs don't go to random people and ask to join, usually you have friends that are in the gang that you know are in the gang.

[quote]And the definition of death zone isn't limited to crime. Lead levels found in the soil or certain urban areas are chilling. By the time the poisoning becomes apparent in a child's sleep disorders, stomach pains and hyperactive behavior, it's too late to undo the permanent brain damage. The poison chips away at the learning potential of kids whose potential has already been chipped away by their environment.[/quote]
They will only feel the effects of this lead poisoning (which is being fixed my school district, which is not particularily rich, and so is the other school district in Houston) would take about 30 years of going to that school.


[quote]I'm not disregarding the quality of military education, but I do not feel that we should round up a particular group of people and shuffle them off to military school because they don't deserve the proper funding to succeed in the public schooling system. That selection is unfair and racist. [i]Everyone[/i] deserves the same opportunity. So, if we're going to ship urban children off to military school, all middle to upper class whites should fall into the same program.[/quote]
I don't know what you were thinking I said, but I said everyone was to go. Did you think I meant only black kids or something?


[quote][b]It's your opinions that are elitist. Your solutions are always forced upon a specific group of people. They never remedy the real problems. And I also find it funny that you were disappointed with me saying that you were acting like a jackass, but you failed to mention how disappointed you were with Jenni bypassing the swear censor. [/B][/QUOTE]
I didn't see her bypassing the swear censor, so how am I supposed to be disappointed? Also I was merely saying that because I called Elitist (I [i]think[/i]it was him) a Nazi for threatening to close a thread of me, and then getting chewed out for it.

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#808080]Jenni, that's the absolute last warning you're going to get from me.

Swearing IS against the rules here. And your attitude toward other members is most unwelcome. It's your choice; if you want to remain at this site you're going to have to learn to be a little more gracious to fellow members.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

It's censored... No big deal. You used measures to prevent people from seeing it. Well, they can't see it. For all you know, I could be just putting some random stars in. So calm down... It's not like I'm trying to bypass the censors.

[James]

[color=#808080]Jenni, your swearing is only one aspect of the issue.

Your attitude is the other. "Sit on it and rotate" is [i]not[/i] how we talk to others here. You are intelligent enough to understand that the censor doesn't have an "attitude sensor".

I'm asking you to behave in a more courteous and respectful fashion. I don't think that's unreasonable. I'm sure you can do it.[/color]

[Harry]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jenni [/i]
[B]Ban me! [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah really, ban her. She's annoying and for some reason everyone think I associate with her.

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#808080]Jenni, your swearing is only one aspect of the issue.

Your attitude is the other. "Sit on it and rotate" is [i]not[/i] how we talk to others here. You are intelligent enough to understand that the censor doesn't have an "attitude sensor".

I'm asking you to behave in a more courteous and respectful fashion. I don't think that's unreasonable. I'm sure you can do it.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Wow, you people get all uppity over nothing. But whatever, I'll just start typing like this ^_^ and feel like a complete moron and not myself. Just to make you happy ^_^

So now, Harry shut up, your views, they are soooo wrong, I mean these people deserve a chance... Of course we need to waste our tax money on them to recieve an education they won't ever appreciate. Your wrong harry.

I tried....

[James]

[color=#808080]Jenni, your sarcasm is not warranted right now.

This isn't about acting like someone other than yourself. All I'm asking you to do is quit the nasty comments to fellow members. I don't think that's too much to ask.

By all means, be yourself. But there's absolutely no need to belittle all the people around you and continually respond with sarcasm. You need to respect the other members here and avoid personal attacks; our rules have clear guidelines about this issue. [/color]

[Guest Jenni]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#808080]Jenni, your sarcasm is not warranted right now.

This isn't about acting like someone other than yourself. All I'm asking you to do is quit the nasty comments to fellow members. I don't think that's too much to ask.

By all means, be yourself. But there's absolutely no need to belittle all the people around you and continually respond with sarcasm. You need to respect the other members here and avoid personal attacks; our rules have clear guidelines about this issue. [/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Ok, so I won't attack members, but I still can use sarcasm...