Mnemolth Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 *glances at Piro and then at Justin* And there, ladies and gentlemen, is the eseence of your problem... Where there is only contempt there can be no understanding, on either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Logic never was my game...It's called Faith. I live by it. It's like the wind. You can't see it, but you know it's there. As for bashing, I either take it or leave it. I refuse to be a part of it, or fight back. Because it isn't my place to judge. I don't have to force my religion on anyone. That would be wrong. I believe God tailors your religion for you, and you only. No, that doesn't condone immoral behavior, but there are those things that some may be able to do and I can't, and visa versa. I believe that my life should be a witness for Jesus, and I'll leave it at that. My actions are proof enough. I don't have to bash your religion, or shove mine down your throat. I can't MAKE you become a Christian. That's between you and God. I'm only here to be a friend, if you need it. I don't care what race, religion, sexual orientation or whatever you are. The Bible says to love one another. No restrictions. And so ends my take... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cora Jane 2 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Well personally, I find "religion" entertaining. I mean really, if I were to be a religion... which I am not, I would probably be a "Christian, or a Follower of Jesus Christ" how the youth pastor at my church likes to call it. I guess the reason I really don't care anymore is that well, my father is a Ordained Minister... and yeah I don't care about religion. Also I have gone to Christian schools all my life (Lutheran and Catholic schools), and Non-denominational churches all my life. I guess I would be the one who just sits back there and laughs at all that is said. I don't really see much point in religion. The thought of religion to me... is well, that you want to fit in... either with good people, friends, or well family. You have your choices, and you just pick the church and denomination you like best. But hey, it's your decision if you want the religions stuff, personally I think people who are religious are more fake and rude (from my personal experiences), than those who are not religious. But hey... its your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist cutter Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ZxFrOgGie13 [/i] [B]You have your choices, and you just pick the church and denomination you like best. [/B][/QUOTE] No, it's not at all like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiroMunkie Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth[/i] [B]*glances at Piro and then at Justin* And there, ladies and gentlemen, is the eseence of your problem... Where there is only contempt there can be no understanding, on either side.[/B][/QUOTE][color=indigo][size=1]I have no real feelings of contempt for anyone. I am not one to look down on another, nor do I look up to anyone. Which helps explain why I am quite "anti-authority", I do not like them because they believe they are higher than I am. Though, that is a bit of a different topic. I am not saying that all religion is a complete load of bull. Each has its own interesting points, but there are so many holes you can find in things that are written that I am not willing to place my life upon it. It is like taking a piece of paper and a pencil, then punching a bunch of holes in that paper with the pencil. Then take something like a paperweight and have someone put it on top of the "holey" (pun intended ;)) paper. The paperweight symbolizes yourself, the paper symbolizes what you believe in. The only thing you have between the two is faith. You have to have enough faith to fill those holes so that you do not fall through. The problem is, and I do not mean to be offensive to anyone by this, the people with the most faith are often the most blinded. My example of the girl would would not talk to my friend because she had some black make-up on is a prime example of that. Geh, I would continue, but I am about to get kicked offline.[/color][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinzouningen17 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Justin [/i] [B][spoiler]the best thing to do in the face of the enemy in any form(and he does take many) is to just sit back, smile, and put it all in the hands of Jesus. One way or the other, the Bible says that every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of all. As a true follower of Christ, the most you can do is witness, pray, and hope for those who don't understand that.[/spoiler] [/B][/QUOTE] Couldnt have said it better myself. :D Good words to live by, good words. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiroMunkie [/i] [B][color=indigo][size=1]I am not one to look down on another, nor do I look up to anyone. Which helps explain why I am quite "anti-authority", I do not like them because they believe they are higher than I am.[/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE] Sounds like the words of a criminal to me. :laugh: I'm just messin wit ya. :D [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiroMunkie [/i] [B][color=indigo][size=1]My example of the girl that would not talk to my friend because she had some black make-up on is a prime example of that.[/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE] That girl that wouldnt talk to that girl JUST because she had black make-up on needs to be smacked. I mean goodness, its just make-up. Dont make a bit of difference. I know a few folks that go to my church that wear black make up(and all sorts of gothic clothes for that matter)every now and then. Clothes and make-up and what not dont make the person, and no matter what they got on, they should be accepted everywhere without bein looked down upon by anybody. They should be treated like you want to be treated. Like the golden rule says, "Do unto others, as you'd have done unto you."...or somethin like that. And anyone that'll look down upon someone just for the way they look(or look down upon em for anything else for that matter)...well, they need to be back handed(HARD. Til a tooth comes out or somethin). Man, you best be glad that girl dont know me, because if I saw her, I'd just smack her around for fun(beat her she stole somethin. Hehe. Nah, I'm just playin there, but I would smack her though), while huggin the girl wit the black make-up. :D Okay, I'm driftin away from the topic a bit now. Uuuuuh, dont playa hate. ;) I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [color=darkblue]There are two main reasons why people bash Christianity. 1) They have been exposed to bad behavior of some kind by hypocrites who claim to be Christian. A true Christian (in my opinion) strives to love & not judge everybody. So, as Transtic pointed out, Christian-bashers are really making a generalization. 2) People see Christians as arrogant because their Bible says that if you don't follow it, you're going to hell. Following other religions, or chosing not to believe in God, is a sure-fire way to damnation. This doesn't really leave people with many options, & that causes resentment, which I can understand. If someone told me I was going to hell, I'd tell them to go themselves. The Bible is a man-made interpretation of God's word, & there are even versions that contradict each other. The original English Bible, the King James, cut at least 1500 pages from the original text. There are certain Christians (& I'm not saying all, mind you) who need to realize that the Bible has flaws. For example: If God can do anything, can he create a rock too heavy for him to lift? I'm not saying all Christians are like this, but I think realizing this would help them spread their message in a more compassionate manner (since people can easily take it the wrong way) & also help their own peace of mind. I've met some Christian gay people who are constantly confused & beating themselves up over it, & that doesn't seem like they have the "peace that passes understanding" that following God is supposed to bring. Do any of you realize how many things are sins, according to the Bible? Nobody could live up to the standards of that thing! It's impossible! I think it would help if people didn't take it so literally. Then nobody would be pushing their views about unimportant stuff (like being gay, as I already mentioned), & nobody would be dramatically offended by the stuff they read in there.[/color] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiroMunkie [/i] [B][color=indigo][size=1]I have no real feelings of contempt for anyone. I am not one to look down on another, nor do I look up to anyone. Which helps explain why I am quite "anti-authority", I do not like them because they believe they are higher than I am. Though, that is a bit of a different topic. [/size] [/color][/B][/QUOTE] [color=darkblue]This is actually a [i]very[/i] good point, which supports the first thing I said. I've encountered way too many Christians that thought they were somehow superior to me if I didn't agree with them. I was either "blinded by the devil" or "deceived" or something. And I was offended that they came up to me saying how horribly I was living my life & that I needed to be more like them. Either way, it was something drastically wrong that [i]I[/i] was doing, not any behavior on their part that turned me off. Keep in mind that I'm not bashing Christianity. I'm a Christian myself but the behavior of some "Christians" really bothers me and there are things I don't agree with at all. But I think God is flexible on those nasty little gray areas.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist cutter Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Macaiodh [/i] [B]Do any of you realize how many things are sins, according to the Bible? Nobody could live up to the standards of that thing! It's impossible![/B][/QUOTE] Yep, you're right. That's why Jesus died for us, and why God is so forgiving. He doesn't expect anyone to live up to those standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [color=darkblue]Yet, oddly enough, people love to point out the sins of others. More hypocracy at work. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 All religion, regardless of denomination, is hypocritical. Because all religions think they are perfect, and well nothing's perfect so there ya go. Hypocracy lies in the foundation of all religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 *Watches Justin get beaten up while he waits for Jesus to come and save him!* *Thinks some more... ..DAMNIT...* I'm Christian too... :( (jking hehe) Meh, people bash Christians because they are a pack of idiots. (The Christians that is.) Their believes are flawed and they are very judgmental. Though every religion has these flaws Christianity is one of the major ones and will always have these problems because of it. I join a lot of these "bashers" because I think that Christianity has gone off track in the last few hundred years. People defend and believe in the bible more than they do Jesus or God. Now if the bible is the thing Christians are meant to be worshiping I got a raw deal when I signed up. Lol, meh really I was brought up in a liberal Christian environment. Where we believe in god and pray but it does not absorb our lives, other wise what?s the point? Live a crap life on earth only to be accepted by god any way up at the pearly gates. (This post is a bit twisted because to say my full views take an hour and twelve minutes just for this subject. :D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShinje Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [QUOTE] [i] Originally poste by wrist cutter [/i] [B] Yep, you're right. That's why Jesus died for us, and why God is so forgiving. He doesn't expect anyone to live up to those standards.[/B] [/QUOTE] Took the word right outta my mouth :) [QUOTE] [i] originally Posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B] All religion, regardless of denomination, is hypocritical. Because all religions think they are perfect, and well nothing's perfect so there ya go. Hypocracy lies in the foundation of all religions. [/B] [/QUOTE] The point is, it shouldn't be there ;) The Bible [i]actually[/i] says that no one is perfect. And that we are all sinners, so everyone needs Jesus, thus, this is why he died for us. Anyone who says they're perfect, are ignorant of their own Bible, which is the the "flawless" word of God, aint it?. if I have accidentally ever bashed someone of a different viewpoint from me, then forgive me, I am not perfect, and hypocricy (spelling?) is bound to slip from me now and then. I respect everyones right to choose whatever they believe in. [color=blue][size=1]All i ask is that they take into consideration my evidence for a christian God, which, either pm me to receive, or I can post it here. Last time I shared this in it's own thread, i was bashed for being ignorant and stupid. I do believe i put it across in an ignorant and stupid way. the content itself can be life changing. Trust me.[/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Chicken Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I only pay out fanatics, and christians... The only thing I find wrong with most people who say they are religous is that the majority are hippocrits. They say they are religous, then go out and don't even attempt to live for the better, or try to help anyone else. I have met only a few real religous people, and they are truly wonderful people, strangely, none of them were christians... I have only met buddhists who are truly religous, and they are so very accepting and take what ever they get, without complaint. I don't like people who search for blame in a higher power, which is what most people I know, who think they are religous do. Another thing, are the people who brag about being religous, like it's a reason for me to drop to the ground yelling "I'm not worthy" I can't stand those people... They think that because I don't 'believe' I am doomed, or whatever. People who are truly religous, don't go parading it around with out good reason. So, the ones I have met aren't the best example of those types of people in the world, hence I bag them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] [B]Meh, people bash Christians because they are a pack of idiots. (The Christians that is.)[/B][/QUOTE] [COLOR=darkblue]Cloricus... this is exactly what everyone means by generalizing. Thank you for providing the perfect example. You actually just insulted your own family. I guess they're idiots, too. You could have said "some Christians" but you didn't. This is the thoughtlessness that causes all the problems. It's like you didn't even read the thread. EDIT: Jesus Chicken, what you said was completely fair.[/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Chicken Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Im just glad you didn't point out any thing I did wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathKnight Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [color=crimson]Christianity has strayed so far from the original setup that Jesus did, I can laugh and pity all of them and not feel any grief over it. They are basically just False Christians, editing and replaceing where they see fit, takeing up pagan holidays and practices. Its folly, and really a pitiful thing to watch. All religion ever is, and ever will be is just a set of opinons and beleifs that was so overinflated it turned into something different. We could argue on and on about why people hate Christians, but all you have to do is realize that its a lost word, its meaning is empty now its being used so much. [edit]Wow. I didnt piss everyone off for once.[/edit][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [color=darkblue]Yeah, I agree, DeathKnight, that's why I believe (& no one has to agree) that the only important principles are love God & love you neighbor as yourself. The Golden Rule & such. All the other stuff is dogma & red-tape.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Chicken Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Damn, that's about it right there... It's so very true though, the fact is; religion, christianity has changed so much since it's beginnings, and now, it seems to be an empty practice. I think the problem is, they have tried to hard to stay in touch, to keep up, and stay modern. But they should have realised that religion isn't something to keep it touch by. It is something that you can find something differrent to what you are surrounded by, to try and find meaning in why you are surrounded by it, and to help you get by amongst it... Well that's my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [quote]Lady Macaiodh Cloricus... this is exactly what everyone means by generalizing. Thank you for providing the perfect example. [/quote] All Christians are idiots; I make only a few exceptions to that general rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hikaru Ichijyo Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Well technically I'm a Christian thanks to my mom but, I don't consider myself part of any religion. I think the reason behind this is I'm tired with everyone arguing over whose right or wrong....after awhile everyone loses focus on what all religions pretty much teach and that is to be a good person and follow morale codes and guidelines. Yet everyone pretty much wants to contradict each other and say your wrong and I'm right. I feel, I don't want to be part of any of those debates or religious groups since I find them rather pointless to be honest, no offense to anyone in this thread. I do think religion bashing is wrong but it won't ever end...its one of those endless waltz and who knows maybe no ones wrong. Just thought I'd share a little insight into this debate, once again I don't mean to offend anyone unintentionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathKnight Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] [B]All Christians are idiots; I make only a few exceptions to that general rule. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=crimson]Actually, logically speaking, Christians are basically a set of people who follow a common opinon about one true god, the son, etc. So in saying that, you are calling people who have an opinon on something idiots, and thusly, if you follow the loop around, calling yourself an idiot- Even if you arent Christian, Christians are just trying to follow one common base form of an idea, opinon; and somehow its evolved to the form of religion. So you are just calling yourself an idiot, since Christians are just people who are holding opinons, much like yourself. lol.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShinje Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jesus Chicken [/i] [B]I only pay out fanatics, and christians... Another thing, are the people who brag about being religous, like it's a reason for me to drop to the ground yelling "I'm not worthy" I can't stand those people... They think that because I don't 'believe' I am doomed, or whatever... [/B][/QUOTE] [img]http://www.otakuboards.com/images/icons/no.gif[/img] I never expect people to drop to the ground yelling i'm not worthy. and what really gets on my nerve, is most people have a bad experience with a hypocritical christian or member of another faith. And that bad experience is enough for them to not seek god. It is kind of like this. We preach to get the good news out, "that you only need to call upon the lord and your sins are forgiven". Fanatic take it too far with the "I'm better than you" thingy, and it acts as a counter agent. a complete reversal from what we originally wanted to do. It is good news, but sometimes, we can slip and it ,makes it bad news "youre going to hell" thingy. and I agree with Deathknight. Some Christians have lost touch with what the 'true' meaning of the Bible is, love and forgiveness, not hate and condemnation. Such things are more a product of the antichrist, rather than christ. I forgive, not condemn, and I believe in respect for your beliefs, you won't get me condemning you, no matter what. you need not read the spoiler, unless you want, it's a prayer for the thread. [spoiler] may the lord bless the contents of this response, may it give comfort to those in need, may it dispell the rumors plaugeing the christian community. Amen. [/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan L Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 heh... Piro, I should have taken pictures at the Youth weekend a week ago.. we had a full band for the worship (ie, electric guitar, bass, rythm guitar, keyboard and drums), rather than the country-ish or gospel stereotypes of christian music, and the electric guitarist looked like a full-on goth.. and these were the people [i]leading[/i] the worship ;). Off the top of my head, I can recall that: a) Someone has tried to disprove the Bible using science, properly, to write a book about it, but ended up writing a book about God and science. b) The effects of prayer have been scientifically studied (again, trying to disprove it) and prayer was found to double the chances of recovery for patients. (I'll give details when I look again- these are off the top of my head) c) Someone attempted to disprove the validity of the Acts of the Apostles, by Luke (one of the major new testament books), by actually visiting parts of Asia minor where the Apostles were, and instead he concluded that Luke was "not only accurate but one of the greatest of historians" d) Some astronomical data didn't make anysense until they accounted for the fact that God apparently held time still or reversed it, twice, in the old testament Those are out there somewhere, but may need a bit of searching to find. There are also things I've either seen or heard of second hand (not from the bible) 1- I've seen a guy with a painful knee problem healed instantly 2- I've seen 7 non-believers form a faith -not a religion, a [i]faith[/i] in Jesus in one night (they were the only non-believers there), one of which viewed religion in the same way as you 3- When I prayed about whether I should quit uni or not, the answer came the next day in this form: My mum bought a CD that wouldn't play in church the night before, to hear the second track. The third track was called "the scientist" (I study science). The music for "the scientist" was an identical chord pattern, and in the same key, as one of my songs (not a widely used chord pattern like some). In the back of the CD booklet it said "The scientist is Dan (my name is Dan). I see no chance for coincedences there. (it was also a Coldplay CD, who are a Christian group). 4- I've heard of a devout Christian village in Africa where they actually believe that the Devil sometimes takes people away from life early, and they pray for them to be brought back to life... and it actually happens. Oh and, with response to the whole "prove it" thing, my response would be that it's not for me to prove it to you.. I could pray for some kind of miracle, and it may even happen. But even with proof, you wouldn't have a faith. And ultimately, faith is what it's all about. Lots of people base their faith on miracles and "proof of God" but ultimately they have no faith and will never be able to rely on God when things get bad. So no.. I won't prove it, because proof doesn't bring strength in faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 DeathKnight logically if you had read the post that that was referring to you would understand the context. :P As I say that was a very compressed version of my views and I can't expand on it because I have an accounting test tomorrow, which I have to study for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathKnight Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 [color=crimson]I read the post it was referring to.. And that post was, hm. Referring to a post by you. Wow. Its a chain, durr.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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