Harry Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Consider this. In these times of terrorism-affected living in the greatest country in the world (America), the blame is constantly being shifted between the two opposing political alignments: Liberalism and Conservative. Both sides are undeniably guilty. Conservatives, motivated by a primal id and neo-colonial need to imperialize all of the world under the scepter of capitalism, continue to push for aggressive actiosn towards the East. Seeking little more than another tallied conquest upon the GOP's walls, and cheaper oil to power SUVs driven by materialistic yuppies, the conservatives will stop at nothing short of a nuclear holocaust to ensure complete subjugation of Iraq, and conversion to the conservative dual-headed god: Jesus and Capitalism. This insane and unsympathetic aggression operates entirely without any consideration of possible consequences, namely retaliation from the Arab world. Which brings us to our second case: The liberals. Psuedo-treehuggers and peace loving hippies, the liberals empathize so heavily with minorities, that we can not apply a rationally justified policy of ethnic profiling of arabs with beckoning the howls of the left. True, such a policy is against the principles expressed by the Bill of Rights, but times have changed, and the threat of unchecked biological or nuclear devestation waits carefully in the shadows to strike at the very heart of Americans everywhere. To make matters worse, the liberals will not cease their anti-individualist crusade against the right to bear arms. Even if terrorists could sneak into targetted areas with their weapons, most americans would not be able to take a chance and strike them down in an act of courageous self-defense and defense of the country, merely because the liberals believe that they have found the solution to all of Americas crime problems. And who can forget the liberal love of the Jews, which has bound America to Israel's hand in marrige, further compounding our problems? So, I ask you, who is the greater threat here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subversive Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Liberals my friends: There lack of morals and extreme ideas will take this country to hell in a hand basket. Well, you probably knew I was a Conservative Republican because I'm a Christian. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B](America, for you barbaric Euro-peons and igloo-inhabiting Canadians out there)[/B][/QUOTE] You sure like to be contrivertial (spl?) don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Webb Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Liberals vs. Conservatives aren't against each other. That's what [i]They[/i] want you to think. In reality, both sides have been saying the exact same thing in different phrasing. [i]They[/i] want you all to believe that both sides are on completely different sides of the spectrum. Who are [i]They[/i]? You already know of [i]Them[/i]. [i]They[/i] are the ones who keep "American Idol" and "Survivor" on the air. [i]They[/i] told you that dressing the way you do is hip, and that the tomato is really a vegetable. Yes, I'm talking about [i]Them[/i]... The media. :worried: j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SpyderDragon [/i] [B]You sure like to be contrivertial (spl?) don't you? [/B][/QUOTE] I accidently left that in, that's for pointing it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven's Cloud Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 [color=indigo]I actually think the group that is the most dangerous is comprised of people that argue and bicker over which side is infallible.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braidless Baka Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 *wonders idly why harry even bothered to edit the post to take out the bit about barbaric europeans* You're the one who started a thread about canabalism buddy... Shows what you think of most days... *shivers at the thought* Anyway, back to the issue at hand... I think Liberals are right personally. Warmongering isn't going to help anything. and besides... isn't it "innocent until proven guilty"? There's no [i]proof[/i] against the east, which is what the whole war thing is about in my opinion... There's no proof, so we're going to force our hand. Not a nice attitude to take if there really are nuclear weapons running around is it? [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B]the threat of unchecked biological or nuclear devestation waits carefully in the shadows to strike at the very heart of Americans everywhere.[/B][/QUOTE] And I believe you're very niave if you think it's [i]only[/i] america that's going to suffer if there's nuclear war. There is a world off the coast of the good ol' US of A... You'd do well to remember that before rushing off on a barbarian europe or igloo-ed canadians speech... *goes off to do a tribal dance... or something else obviously barbaric* [/sarcasm] Pfft, yeah right ¬_¬ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabyGirl Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Heaven's Cloud [/i] [B][color=indigo]I actually think the group that is the most dangerous is comprised of people that argue and bicker over which side is infallible.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [color=deeppink]I like that thought :) My final project for my photojournalism class was to document the "right" side of life, as in the right wing abd left wing side of politics. I was stuck with the right wing, a side that is harder to document during this time in which protesting the war seems to be the latest [and not to mention hippest!] trend. Since conservatives are placed under the right wing catergory, I seem to have brainstormed every cliché and stereotype that is bred by the conservative population. And, quite honestly, all of the stereotypes myself and others came up with were degrading: war mongers, earth killers, oppressors of women's rights...those things aren't exactly easy [or pretty] to show in photographs. However, as I started to look at it more in depth, I found that it's not just the stereotypes that make up the liberal and conservative parties. There are plenty of people [and I'd say the majority of the United States' population] who are a mix of both, like someone who is a conservative economist but a liberal thinker when it comes to civil rights. It's the extreme liberals and the extreme conservatives that cause the petty bickering between the right and left wings. I think at times it's futile to run in endless circles defending your side of politics; no matter what you say, someone who thinks differently is going to shoot you down. It's the closed mindedness of both parties that is the biggest threat, not the people themselves.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Webb Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i] [B][color=deeppink]However, as I started to look at it more in depth, I found that it's not just the stereotypes that make up the liberal and conservative parties. There are plenty of people [and I'd say the majority of the United States' population] who are a mix of both, like someone who is a conservative economist but a liberal thinker when it comes to civil rights. It's the extreme liberals and the extreme conservatives that cause the petty bickering between the right and left wings. I think at times it's futile to run in endless circles defending your side of politics; no matter what you say, someone who thinks differently is going to shoot you down. It's the closed mindedness of both parties that is the biggest threat, not the people themselves.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] Nicely put. All of my nonsense aside, I honestly think that neither side is more correct or wrong or more dangerous than the other. Like BabyGirl said, a good majority of the U.S. seem to be a mix of both. That's why I always claim the middle-ground. It just doesn't make sense to be pure liberal or pure conservative, to me. And in the end, I believe that both extremes want the same thing... just in two different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 1, 2003 Author Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Braidless Baka [/i] [B] And I believe you're very niave if you think it's [i]only[/i] america that's going to suffer if there's nuclear war. [/B][/QUOTE] I was talking about Terrorism friend. [quote]the one who started a thread about canabalism buddy... [/quote] And what exactly is barbaric about asking a person if they would resort to cannibalism in a life or death situation? It doesn't take me a whole day to think up a single question. [quote]Like BabyGirl said, a good majority of the U.S. seem to be a mix of both. [/quote] those that sit in the middle, unable to choose a side, are the big threats. eventually, they choose the most popular side, only serving to dummy up that side's argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabyGirl Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B]those that sit in the middle, unable to choose a side, are the big threats. eventually, they choose the most popular side, only serving to dummy up that side's argument. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=deeppink]I wasn't talking about those who were undecided on which side of the fence to sit on ;) I was referring to the people who are a mix of both, which is honestly a majority of the United States. For example, I'm a big liberal supporter of pro-choice for women, but I'm hardly liberal in the sense that I don't agree with affirmative action. It's not like I'm undecided on my opinions, so I can't be easily swayed by the "popular" party (is there even such a thing o_O?). But that's getting too involved in my thoughts on political issues, I just wanted to give an example to explain myself in a more efficient way :)[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 1, 2003 Author Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i] [B][color=deeppink] I was referring to the people who are a mix of both, [/color] [/B][/QUOTE] Yes but most tend to vote more for conservatives and liberals. It's almost impossible to be a full fledged liberal with no conservative tendencies and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braidless Baka Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B]I was talking about Terrorism friend.[/B][/QUOTE] So? In Britain we worry because the US may seem like to big of a target to go for, so the brits are going to be the next in line. *shrugs* And last I heard, nuclear war was the big terrorism thing, or maybe I'm worng, but my comment can work for either situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 1, 2003 Author Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Braidless Baka [/i] [B] And last I heard, nuclear war was the big terrorism thing, or maybe I'm worng, but my comment can work for either situation... [/B][/QUOTE] Your comment doens't work in either situation. You're confusing nuclear war with a nuclear bomb blowing up a city. Also if you didn't notice, this thread was mainly about America, I did not mention other countries because this one is specifically about America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 I think that this is almost the furthest thing possible from an honest intellectual/political subject possible. The only thing intellectual about this has been the honest and independent views of those like babygirl and endymion. (who I believe are both democrates... nothing wrong with that though...) So my point is... neither side is a bigger threat, and for that matter neither side is a threat. period. Both add to the stability and ever adapting atmosphere of the american world of politics. Sure, both sides have their faults, but both have greater aspects that are always over looked. I also thought it would be a good point to make that all the stereotypical crap you wrote in the thread starter was just great... I mean, war-mongers vs tree huggers, what a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subversive Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i] [B][color=deeppink] It's not like I'm undecided on my opinions, so I can't be easily swayed by the "popular" party (is there even such a thing o_O?). [/color] [/B][/QUOTE] The media is liberal, wouldn't it make that the popular party. And don't tell me the media doesn't sway people... [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i] [B]But what ever, I think this is gonna get closed when James gets to see it, but we'll see. [/B][/QUOTE] What rule is this breaking exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 1, 2003 Author Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i] [B]This thread is based on a bankrupt subject that has no debate value. [/B][/QUOTE] You're destroying my well thought out thread by your wannabe modism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 hee hee, that was a good one. "Wannabe modism." I'm not playing mod, Im simply stating the obvious. Do you really think that either party is worse? Im a republican, and there are a million nasty things I could say about liberals. But all of them would be pushing subjective ideology that has no more base than the argument that the iraq situation is all about oil. Im sorry if you think Im ruining a well thought out idea, but you gotta realize. No one has said anything here that was worth the time it took to write it, except for the few here who were open minded enough to see that neither party is worse than the other. If it makes you feel better, Im gonna go back and edit my post so there is nothing bad about your topic. Feel better now...:bawl: Well its ok cause I just went back and edited my honest and hurtful words...:p Although I should point out that what you qouted of me is a true statment... I mean, whose worse... Sure, we could sit and argue about it, but we all know that both sides are pretty crappy at times. I think this is just the same as saying "whose better." I also think its really, REALLY important to mention that I have a ton of pent up hostility for liberals ranging from subjects like abortion and anti war protest to the lack of proper treatment and appointment of minorities. I will admit that I am being a tad bit harsh, but I guess I have lost a lot of patience for political topics over the last few months. Anti-war protest, war, terrorism, partisan politics... this stuff eventually gets to me and makes me one sour person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SpyderDragon [/i] [B]Liberals my friends: There lack of morals and extreme ideas will take this country to hell in a hand basket. Well, you probably knew I was a Conservative Republican because I'm a Christian. [/B][/QUOTE] With comments like that you certainly don't make any conservative look any better. I'm a liberal and I have plenty of morals, thats for sure. Your so called morals should have made you think before posting something as outlandish as that. And just because your christian doesn't mean you have to conservative... I know plenty of liberal christians who have plenty of morals. In fact I know strong catholics who are liberal and very good friends of mine. Anyway, I don't think the threat lies within what party affiliation you are with whether you consider yourself conservative or liberal (both terms which do not heed their own meaning). The thread lies within those people who are willing to throw bombs at us and kill our people. There only one way to deal with those people and both parties have to do it, whether or not they like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [color=#808080]I'm very much a "centerist". I'm not conservative nor liberal. Why? Because I think that both political ideologies have their benefits. Liberalism provides strong and important social freedoms for all people, whilst conservatism provides economic and defensive reassurance. What I [i]dislike[/i] are political extremists. I dislike left wing extremists (ie: extremely naive hippie-type people) and I dislike right wing extremists (ie: religious fundamentalists like Jerry Falwell or Osama bin Laden). The fact is, both schools of thought have their own extremists. And extremism is the biggest danger to the world at the moment. You can be liberal or conservative [i]without[/i] being totally uncompromising in your beliefs and policies. I tend to agree with gokents; I don't really believe that there is going to be a constructive debate here. It's like saying "which color is better?" It's very difficult to determine which personal preference is superior; I think that in reality, a combination of [i]both[/i] is the best you're going to get. Really, debating which political ideology is "better" is like debating which flavor of ice cream is better...not everyone will agree and you're not really going to sway anyone. So, with that said, I'll be watching this thread closely. If a substantive debate doesn't appear, I'll close it.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B]Anyway, I don't think the threat lies within what party affiliation you are with whether you consider yourself conservative or liberal (both terms which do not heed their own meaning). The thread lies within those people who are willing to throw bombs at us and kill our people. There only one way to deal with those people and both parties have to do it, whether or not they like it. [/B][/QUOTE] Perfect... This is the sort of point that I have had to try and make millions of times over. I think that sort of point is what made it really hard for me to not bash on liberals, because I hate to say it, but all those anti-war protestors in the streets talking about blood for oil are liberals. I mean, I hate to say it, but the liberal anti-war protestors were the reason america allowed pol pot to murder 2 million cambodians in an ideological cleansing after america pulled out of vietnam. Like I said though, I dont like the idea of bashing nor do I like this threads subject very much. Hey hey hey... I was right in my earlier statment that james wouldnt like this thread just like me. I still want to stress that this sort of picking who's better is silly. Both parties have problems and both have good sides. I think that becoming a single conscience as the american nation would be the best thing for us right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subversive Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B]With comments like that you certainly don't make any conservative look any better. I'm a liberal and I have plenty of morals, thats for sure. Your so called morals should have made you think before posting something as outlandish as that. And just because your christian doesn't mean you have to conservative... I know plenty of liberal christians who have plenty of morals. In fact I know strong catholics who are liberal and very good friends of mine. [/B][/QUOTE] As you might have seen throughout this, we're talking about the extreme's (Look at Harry's descriptions, we're talking about the politicians themselves, not the voters) here. I was refering to those who have "corrupted" morals, i.e. they go to church put on a good show, then support abortion, etc. (maybe thats ethics but I put that all in one boat) Many catholics are so set in there traditions passed down from family, they may not be devoutly religious (I am not judging since I don't know them) Others are so we need to help the needy, they reach to bleeding heart Liberals to "save the world" When really most of it is a gimmic to get in office. Now is this technique limited to Liberals? No, sadly politics has become more than a game and a contest, and less about bettering the country. Bottom line, politics are so corrupt its hard to see the true vision behind each parties agenda. Where did we lose our way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [color=#808080]SpyderDragon, I tend to feel that those who preach the position that the world is going to hell in a handbasket are the very same people who contribute to a decline in society. If it were up to certain members of society (who share your beliefs, but are more extreme), we'd all be living under a Christian theocracy. So, as I've said...extremism is dangerous in general, whether it's liberal or conservative.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabyGirl Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SpyderDragon [/i] [B]The media is liberal, wouldn't it make that the popular party. And don't tell me the media doesn't sway people...[/B][/QUOTE] [color=deeppink]It depends on which part of media you're talking about, I don't think that really any form of media can be considered to have a political affiliation... However, if you want to give it a side, then you have to take into account that when the media goes over-seas to cover foreign wars, where they can go is very much dictated by the US government. They're going to allow the media to document what [i]they[/i] want America to see. During Vietnam, which media first played a huge roll in war time America, the media basically had free reign of the country and could decide where they wanted to go and what they wanted to document. But that has changed today, and the war time media is kept under close watch and tight control. That fraction of the media obviously cannot be put under a category such as 'liberal' in such a case. Yet, I'm assuming that you were talking about Hollywood media. In that case, I still don't think it's really fair to put it under a political party, but I see where you're coming from.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i] [B][color=deeppink]It depends on which part of media you're talking about, I don't think that really any form of media can be considered to have a political affiliation... Yet, I'm assuming that you were talking about Hollywood media. In that case, I still don't think it's really fair to put it under a political party, but I see where you're coming from.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] I actually think that this "leftist media" is reffering to the leftist views of the network news channels in america. CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, Headline News... Not to mention the radio (NPR is hardcore leftist) Those are all notoriously liberal networks/channels. But I really dont mind having that one sidedness, because fox is a moderate channel and is killing all the others in ratings. So I guess what the people want, the people will have... or try and make the most popular. Either way, there is a leftist bias in the mainstream media, as well as the hollywood area of things as you had mentioned. But as for war coverage, I will believe what I see, and hear from the first hand sources that are actually there. Not that your opinion doesnt matter, but I dont know about your experience with censorship as a foriegn war correspondent. I do know that any government monitoring going on in america is nothing compared to the fellas with kalashnikov's standing behind weapons inspectors at all times. But I guess you have to know what that kalashnikov is before you know what Im talking about. (Im sure you as well as any one with a college edu, knows what the kalashnikov is.) Thats off subject so please exscue me... sorry. *gives the bull horn back to the rightful owner* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 Streaming back to the original question... Beh, who cares, politics is probably the least of the concerns for 90% of the people who live in North America today. But if I was to say who would be more dangerous out the the two...I wouldnt know. Ide probably say go Conservative... that ****ing Jean Chretien has only destroyed our nation (Canada) in his long run in office... stupid slant-faced sob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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