Gaming Does Nintendo really know what we want?

[ThePikasElbow]

Ghost: Of course Zelda will sell well. Mario sold well and so do the other Nintendo titles. Zelda looks like it will become one of my favorite games, maybe even on top of OoT. The issue here is not quality. The issue here is giving the people what they want. They are giving them top quality games, but they need something that grabs every gamer. They need that Halo or that GTA. I'm hoping that Zelda will gain some momentum for GCN. Famitsu gave it a perfect score, and they rarely do that.

Guy above me: I have tried TS2 and I love it. I'm not saying they need a Goldeneye in terms of gameplay, they need a Goldeneye in terms of impact. Goldeneye put Rare on the map and pushed tons of N64s. They need another big system pusher.

[GhostofSalvtore]

Perfect Dark had it all, nice story, but it had the great, near perfect multiplayer, no console FPS can contend with it. I have played TimeSplitters, but I did't really like the stages in it as compared to PD. PD had the bots, the guns, the levels(some from Goldeneye)the story.
Whats not to like about it. I played that game for a long time, probably still would if I hadn't sold all my 64 stuff for my PS2. What makes you not like PD?

[Semjaza]

Well I was speaking to GhostofSalvtore since he wants a PD style game.

I personally thought the story was lame, the main game's levels were mostly very poorly designed and the framerate was sometimes so bad that it was practically unplayable. I simply didn't like it.

Zelda's preorders are very high... And it seems that most people forgave the graphically change once they actually played it. I always liked the change, but was still iffy on it. I was completely sold once I played the demo.

It's possible that's the game people need to change their minds... Otherwise, there are games like Killer 7, RE4. Starfox Armada and F-Zero that are rather high profile and interest me a lot as well... Plus whatever this GC Metal Gear Solid game turns out to be.

[GhostofSalvtore]

Framerate, would be the only downside I can see to the game, but still the multiplayer just makes ya play for hours and hours. The single player mode wasn't even needed and I would have gotten the game, just because it was that good.

Well not every gamer enjoys the GTA and the Halo, mainly because they think its inferior. Still don't concern yourself with what other people want. Has GC satisfied your needs? Looks like it has. Has Nintendo given you what you want? Do you need a Halo or GTA?

And really I don't know what I want for GC, GC hasn't done much for me as of late. I own a PS2 and an Xbox so I don't have to worry what happens. But before GC had come out I had some titles that I was really interested in, all of them seemed to have failed me one way or another. And I don't think I would say I have blown them off, I am actually playing them now, making my own opinions and such.

[Semjaza]

Alright. At least I'm finally clear on what it was you were trying to get across before lol. I honestly didn't know what you were trying to say in some of the other posts.

Anyway, that's all reasonable. I had an Xbox, and despite so many people loving it... I just didn't like the games I had on it (Halo, JSRF, etc). I sold it. I guess you're just in the same situation, but with GC.

As for Timesplitters 2, it has just as many multiplayer modes and bot setups as PD did... Maybe the maps aren't quite as good (I think some are just too mazelike, but some art great). I'm having more fun with it than PD personally.

[Xra]

Hmm, well don't kill me but I was never into ist person shooters except for gta. As for the topic I think Nintendo's only problem is that by the time they start making good games, they're gonna bring out another system. I mean here's what happened with the Gamecube:

It came out, with a few Blockbusters like SSBM,

Then things started to get slow and they made random games that had no real impact,

Because of this, they start to take already made titles and start putting them on the GC,

Then they start to get ideas and are now starting to send out good worthwhile games like LOZ: TWW(though Ura Link still scares me),

In the near future they are finally sending out great games and they start to work on a new system.

This is what happened to the n64, and yes I got word on a new system some time or another. Now the PS2, they started out with good games and kept a flow of good and bad games together upto date, and the ps3 isin't set to release for a long time say 2006.

(im tired so i don't think i meant anything in my post. hope someone understands...)

[Semjaza]

I think people are a little ahead of themselves. The thing has only been out a little over a year, so I don't know what is expected. It takes time to make games, and they are thankfully being far better about it than they were with N64 (although still not great). At least they seem to be focused on making their next system fix these problems it seems.

People seem to forget that for months after launch the PS2 had only a couple games even worth buying. Xbox went for the longest time with only one killer app, which was Halo. I fail to see how this is much different.

And GTA isn't a FPS.

[Xra]

Now I just realized what I tried to say, and all I meant was that they need to spend more time on making games for one system, give it more time to interest people and like you just said, It's only been out for a little more than a year and they're already talking(or there's already talk) for a new system. Damn, if they want improve on mistakes on the original gamecube, make some enhancements, not a brand new system.

As for your other comment, there was definately more than a few ps2 games worthwhile I could remember, and I know there is not much of a difference in the game flows, but its the little things that count, right?


O yeah, I mean GTA is the only small(or big of whatever it is) shooter I really liked.


(o yeah, this may be oof topic, but wasn't there are a gold plated gamecube that was supposed to come out and include a dvd player?)

[Semjaza]

Nintendo was the last of the three to even mention a new system. Every generation, the work on the new system begins before ot shortly after the current one is out the door. It was no different in the SNES days, and it's no different now.

The only reason that even matters is because people like to get caught up in what's coming rather than what is there. There are still many good years left for all the consoles.

And in terms of the launch there was basically Madden, SSX and Tekken Tag. Nothing else was that special (many looked worse than current DC games at the time), and I don't think it was any better than the DC launch or the GC one honestly.

As for the DVD playing cube... It wasn't gold, it has a mirror surface. It's called the Q and is only available in Japan. Panasonic/Matsushita makes it.

[James]

[color=#808080]The thing to remember here is the original question; does Nintendo know what people want?

I think that the posts so far have answered that question. To an extent, Nintendo is never going to be able to satisfy everyone. But on the other hand (despite satsifying its own audience), Nintendo has made great leaps in terms of satisfying "casual" gamers.

Still, I don't think it matters. I don't think Nintendo needs to outsell Sony or Microsoft. Already, Nintendo is [i]far[/i] more profitable than both Sony and Microsoft put together. Where Microsoft will lose billions of dollars on Xbox over the coming years, Nintendo will earn hundreds of millions in profits on GameCube.

So, for me at least...as long as Nintendo can continue to remain profitable as a company (and as long as home systems like GCN remain viable), then I'm happy. Nintendo will always be satisfying myself and others who are fans of their own franchises. Whether or not Nintendo satifies your average "GTA fan" is another story entirely.

The main point I'm trying to get across to GhostofSalvatore, is that at least he should [i]try[/i] the games that have been mentioned here. As I said before, this is something I encourage non-Dreamcast players to do; not out of a particular brand loyalty, but out of a desire for other gamers to experience the same kind of quality that I myself am experiencing. As they say, variety is the spice of life. ~_^

When people tell me about the fact that GameCube isn't the kind of "mainstream" console that Xbox is, for example, I ask them "why does it even matter?"

If you think about it, Nintendo is really starting to cater to a different audience than either Microsoft or Sony. I personally believe that Nintendo will cease to be the big industry leader that it was during the SNES era -- instead, the company will simply slide into a niche market of hardcore gamers (or at least, whoever is left of 'em). It's also reasonable to say that these days, due to the increasing age of gamers, many gamers own more than one console. I bought a PS2 when it came out (before the GCN, obviously) and then I bought a GCN when it came out.

And, as I said before...I own more PS2 games than GameCube games. But what is the core difference? With PS2, most (if not all) of my games are third party exclusives. With GameCube, most of my games (almost all) are first/second party exclusives.

Exclusivity is the key word. GameCube is the [i]only[/i] place where you can find some of the most revolutionary games of this generation -- whether you're talking about Metroid or Zelda or even something like Mario Kart. And I think that in this day and age, most consumers won't simply choose one console in place of another; in many cases, they'll buy both.

And, as I said earlier, Nintendo remains the most profitable of the three hardware makers. That's why it hasn't even gone into online gaming yet; Nintendo places massive importance on profitability. And rightly so; this industry changes so readily that profitability is incredibly important.

So yeah, that was probably too much of a ramble...I guess a lot of things were rolling out there. But overall, I guess my main point (especially for GoS) is to TRY the games that we're mentioning. Don't just keep saying that GCN needs PD and without it you aren't interested; that's so easy to say and it's so dismissive. Where you might lose PD Zero, you might [i]gain[/i] two or three other titles of equal or greater value. The key is to [i]give them a try[/i] and then make your judgement.

Those of us who own GameCubes and who [i]have[/i] played a wide variety of these games can make accurate comparisions between the GameCube and PS2, in terms of what kind of content they're offering. And I think most people can see the strong merits in GameCube, even if those merits might not be immediately visible to all gamers.[/color]

[Raichu Tamer]

Nintendo are bringing what we want! They are bringing quality games out such as Super Mario Sunshine (a firm favourite) Zelda (although it ain't out in England until June!)and on the GBA Pokemon Ruby and Shapphire(true that some of the rumors are a bit off putting)but if Nintendo continue releasing great games then they must know! Do you see what Im getting at. Also take the machines the snes in its day was one of the better machines it smashed the Mega Drive because of the gameplay! and now the Gamecube will be better because we now have Sonic as well as other mascots! The N64 was only a flop because the third party games were rubbish. Anything from Nintendo was great, take the zelda and pokemon games they were some of the successful ones, true some third party games were great Goldeneye and such. Anywho I will stick with nintendo until either 1) they start making really crap games and i lose intrest,or 2)the company goes bust (which isn't very likely). come on they have already thought about making a new machine for about five years time but there is also the concept that other companies like sony are already got there new system underway! so stick with Nintendo until you feel as if you aren't intrested anymore.
thanks for reading

[Subversive]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#808080]
Those of us who own GameCubes and who [i]have[/i] played a wide variety of these games can make accurate comparisions between the GameCube and PS2, in terms of what kind of content they're offering. And I think most people can see the strong merits in GameCube, even if those merits might not be immediately visible to all gamers.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Why do you think I bought a GameCube. Nintendo knows what they're doing, and have the longest.

BTW James I adopted a Blob ^^

[Semjaza]

Well, now that the Earthbound GC game is almost everything but confirmed, I must say they are definately giving me what [i]I[/i] want (hopefully lol).

I am glad all that everything vs. GC argument is over, as that's not even the purpose of this thread (or so I thought). There are many things Nintendo does that I wish they wouldn't do. I wish they would stop putting on lame advertisements that won't even excite me for games that I have been waiting years for. I wish they wouldn't totally pass on games that I really wanted (Magical Vacation, Tomato Adventure, Marvelous: Another Treasure Island, almost the entire Fire Emblem series), or announce they are bringing something over and just never do it (Doshin, Mother/Earthbound Zero, Kuru Kuru Kururin Paradise).

I also realize that Pokemon fans really want something just like the Gameboy games in 3D. I have no idea why Nintendo hasn't tried that. Perhaps they feel it would kill the trading aspect, but online features or GBA connection could easily change that.

At the same time Nintendo has been putting out sequels to games I wanted very quickly. They never did this with N64, and it's not that far from the pace SNES was going at this time in terms of first party releases. Hell, we already got a Mario, Metroid and Zelda (well in a few weeks)... When's the last time that has happened? On top of that there are some original games and other random sequels I've enjoyed very much.

I must say I'm very happy overall, despite my problems with Nintendo (which are a lot more numerous than what I've listed). I have double the amount of PS2 games than I do on my GC, but for me GC offers a totally different experience than PS2 does for the most part. I like having both.

[GhostofSalvtore]

Yeah the advertisements in Japan look much better than they do here. Anyways what problems do you have for your GC if you wouldn't mind me asking?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SpyderDragon [/i]
[B]
BTW James I adopted a Blob ^^ [/B][/QUOTE]
me too:cross:

[hiachi]

I started this topic to talk about nintendo in a non insulting manner, and then people start complaining.....

Also i have seen people give examples of Nintendo giving games that arent even made by Nintendo..........(whats up with that?)

and your posts bout them giving us all these other games are exaclty what i was talking bout, they give us good quality titles, yes but are they what we asked for? no.....I know they are the designers and we are not, so we dont have to get a say in the developement, but we ARE the consumers and we know what we want to buy, so i think we do need a Poke'Mon 3D game, and some other sequels to games that they left open ended/unanswered....

[GhostofSalvtore]

Well maybe not what YOU asked for, but there are many others that have replied to this topic saying the exact opposite. That Nintendo has given us sequels to big franchises and some others that people really want, Earthbound(YAY). I don't know what sequels you want them to give.

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by hiachi [/i]
[B]and your posts bout them giving us all these other games are exaclty what i was talking bout, they give us good quality titles, yes but are they what we asked for? no.....I know they are the designers and we are not, so we dont have to get a say in the developement, but we ARE the consumers and we know what we want to buy, so i think we do need a Poke'Mon 3D game, and some other sequels to games that they left open ended/unanswered.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh?

It's not possible to please [i]everyone[/i], but Nintendo has made quite an effort to cater to the wishes of fans. We've already seen next generation updates to Metroid, Super Smash Brothers, Mario, Wario, Zelda, F-Zero, Star Fox and Wave Race. If Nintendos' bringing its most beloved franchises (and new ones) to the console isn't what the fans want, then I don't know what is.

Plus, Nintendo has created a console that is developer friendly, which leads to a greater variety in third party games and more timely releases. I found that PSX games released several months before their N64 counterparts. Now, the gap is nonexistent for the most part with cross platform releases.

And--as mentioned, people demanded more adult-oriented titles and GameCube has 'em. BMX XXX, the lousy game that it is anyway, was left untouched while the PS2 version was censored.

I'll agree that Nintendo has taken controversial directions with key franchises like Metroid and Zelda. But, these changes were more beneficial than hurtful to their respective franchises. Most true fans have accepted that by now.

Now--I have to be honest. I couldn't care less about Pokemon. But, here's the way I see it: The franchise became successful as a handheld and that's where Nintendos' primary focus should be with the franchise. Just because a traditional Pokemon game hasn't surfaced on the GameCube doesn't mean that Nintendo is totally alienating Pokefans.

[ZeroBlade]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GhostofSalvtore [/i]
[B]You know what........I dont own a GBA, I own everything else........but that. The only Gameboy I ever owned was the big fat clunky one. But maybe I will look into getting the SP when it comes out.[/B][/QUOTE]

I've seen that thing in action last week. I must say its pretty impressive. The new internal lighting is better than my Afterburned GBA but only slightly. Compared to my own (which has all kinds of battle scars) the display is crystal clear. It looked like watching TV or something. What I didn't like about it though is that it has this blue tint when the light is on that washes out the light more than my own ABGBA. However it is still pretty nice. Size is as small as everyone says it is, maybe too small for me. I played Megaman Zero on it and I found it a bit harder to execute a command cause my index fingers were on top of each other. The 'face' buttons no longer stick out like the current GBA and they felt a bit awkward but was just as responsive as the current GBA. Last thing I might add is should the internal batteries die on it (as in break) you can't replace them since its of a special type only nintendo can fix. To top it off they put one of those annoying Tri-winged screws on the battery cover and it nulls the warranty if you do. Eh.. I still don't know if you can charge while you play still so I'm gonna have to get back to ya on that some time later. So final verdict is, buy if you don't have a GBA, rent if you do or just get the Afterburner mod if you wanna save cash.

[hiachi]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Charles [/i]
[B]
Plus, Nintendo has created a console that is developer friendly, which leads to a greater variety in third party games and more timely releases. I found that PSX games released several months before their N64 counterparts. Now, the gap is nonexistent for the most part with cross platform releases.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Exactly, Gamecube is the most easy system to develope for, but even though that is true, some developers (ALOT really!) stick to PS2 cuz its been out longer and they know it better, and XBOX is like programming for windows so PC developers are already good, but in GCN you can make the best games, and its just that they are too lazy to try to learn how to make games for it, instead they stick to what they already know, i guess they dont want to try to be the best, if your not trying for perfection, you might as well not try!:flaming:

[James]

[color=#808080]Being comfortable with PS2 development bears little to no relationship to whether or not developers create games for GameCube.

There are many issues -- lisencing, marketing, profitability, media format costs...many, many issues.

Game companies tend to consider two aspects; the financial and the creative. Konami, for instance, is now looking at the creative potential of using the sun with the GBA (in terms of having differing light levels affect the game environment). And then you have SEGA, exploiting the GBA/GCN connectivity with games like F-Zero.

Game developers will make investments in new hardware if they feel that it is in their interest. So, whether or not they are comfortable with PS2 doesn't have a great deal of influence on whether or not they'll develop for GameCube.[/color]

[GhostofSalvtore]

This sun thing sounds intriguing, but I have never heard of it before, did the news just come out?
But yeah agreed and agreed to all points ya said there James.