Let's try this again...

[Shy]

[size=1]This has been brought up more times than I can count, but I would like everyone to reconsider their stance on the idea of custom titles.

[center][img]http://www.slownerveaction.org/interweb/model.jpg[/img][/center]

This is my idea for how they would work. Staff members would have a little symbol next to their names. Super Moderators would have an "SM", Adminstrators would have a "A", etc.

On the line that currently shows our titles we could put custom titles instead. In order to limit the workload that this would cause to Admins and Tech Staff, this could only be available to members who have been here a certain amount of time (instead of post count, because that would only lead to spamming).

Also, Bosko would be a really good OB mascot.

-Shy[/size]

[James]

[color=#808080]Once again, my response is the same.

Having an "A" or an "M" doesn't provide enough information. Look at your own title, for example. It isn't there to be pretty; it's there to label your exact function on the boards. The titles are descriptive enough so that members understand who you are and what areas you are responsible for.

Secondly, it's impossible for us to moderate custom titles. If someone wants to make their title just a bunch of swearing or something...there is no way that we can protect against that sort of abuse. The same goes for someone who writes something sexual or offensive as their status.

The point is, this idea is always knocked back by me for practical reasons more than anything. I've not yet seen an idea that is [i]truly[/i] workable for this particular site. Even if I do see what appears to be a workable idea, I may not always have the resources at hand to actually implement that idea -- you have to remember that the appropriate software changes must be made to allow for these changes. And, in many cases, we just don't have the technical capabilities that people's suggestions require.

With that said, however, I do encourage people to make suggestions like this. It gets people talking and it encourages brainstorming. And I support that -- if an alternative that is truly workable can be found, I'm willing to consider it.

But, based on the points I've raised above...as well as the myriad of technical issues, this particular "version" of the idea is unfeasable.

EDIT: Oh, and as for a mascot...I've already chosen one. A Japan-centric, pop culture icon. Of course, I have only shown him to a handful of people - but fear not, one of these days he'll be a much more visible character. ~_^[/color]

[Shy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#808080]Once again, my response is the same.

Having an "A" or an "M" doesn't provide enough information. Look at your own title, for example. It isn't there to be pretty; it's there to label your exact function on the boards. The titles are descriptive enough so that members understand who you are and what areas you are responsible for.[/quote][/color][/b]
[size=1]Perhaps they could only be available to members then. If people want to know what sections I run they can look at the main page. Some people are unable to find the rules on OB, are we expected to completely add copies of the rules to our sigs?[/size]

[quote][i]More by Big J[/i]

[b][color=#808080]Secondly, it's impossible for us to moderate custom titles. If someone wants to make their title just a bunch of swearing or something...there is no way that we can protect against that sort of abuse. The same goes for someone who writes something sexual or offensive as their status.[/quote][/b][/color]
[size=1]I never siggested that the members get free control over their custom titles. They would only be available ot certain members based on how long they have been to the site. Similar to changing a user name, this function could only be carried out my an admin. Anything offensive would have ot get past them first. [i]And it's not like they couldn't put something offensive in their sig, avatars or posts...[/i][/size]

[quote][i]Ditto[/i]

[color=#808080][b]The point is, this idea is always knocked back by me for practical reasons more than anything. I've not yet seen an idea that is [i]truly[/i] workable for this particular site. Even if I do see what appears to be a workable idea, I may not always have the resources at hand to actually implement that idea -- you have to remember that the appropriate software changes must be made to allow for these changes. And, in many cases, we just don't have the technical capabilities that people's suggestions require.


But, based on the points I've raised above...as well as the myriad of technical issues, this particular "version" of the idea is unfeasable.[/quote][/b][/color]
[size=1]This might be true. I was basing the entire suggestion off of something I saw on a UBB board. I have no idea how different VB Bulletin and UBB are. You win this round, heh.[/size]

[quote][color=#808080][i]More of the same[/i]

[b]EDIT: Oh, and as for a mascot...I've already chosen one. A Japan-centric, pop culture icon. Of course, I have only shown him to a handful of people - but fear not, one of these days he'll be a much more visible character. ~_^[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]
[size=1]Whatever it is, I am sure that Bosko would be a much better choice. From now on Bosko is the official anime forum mascot.

Thank you for replying, your thoughts and input are much better than simply saying "no" and closing the thread.

-Shy

EDIT: These tags are tricky.[/size]

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shyguy [/i]
[B]
[size=1]Perhaps they could only be available to members then. If people want to know what sections I run they can look at the main page. Some people are unable to find the rules on OB, are we expected to completely add copies of the rules to our sigs?[/size][/b][/quote]

[color=#808080]You'd be surprised how many people take no notice of the front page (I learned this myself a few days ago lol).

You can't equate the rules to custom titles. You simply can't. The two are very different.

The rules comprise a large and comprehensive list of information. Your status, as a staff member, is designed to be very direct and disctinct. Whenever you post, it should be viewable.

What we're really talking about here is the way in which information is presented to visitors. It's much [i]easier[/i] if your staff status is located clearly in your postbit, even if it's also located on the main page. It's a very direct way of identifying yourself within a thread.

Whatever happens regarding custom titles, staff will [i]always[/i] need to be clearly identified within their posts. I cannot overstate the importance of that point.[/color][quote][size=1][b]


I never siggested that the members get free control over their custom titles. They would only be available ot certain members based on how long they have been to the site. Similar to changing a user name, this function could only be carried out my an admin. Anything offensive would have ot get past them first. [i]And it's not like they couldn't put something offensive in their sig, avatars or posts...[/i][/size][/b][/quote]

[color=#808080]So you would now want to burden the site's Administration by causing us to manually change user titles? This is unnecessary. Both myself and Charles already have more than enough to do; and Charles' responsibilities will increase over time anyway.

I really don't think that, on top of the dozens of PMs we both receive combined (on many issues, including things like name changing), we should also have to manually change member titles.

The only thing I see as being workable in this situation is if we install something in our software to facilitate custom titles.

I would also add that, once again, you can't compare titles to something like signatures. Even with signatures, we're always trying to moderate them; it's very difficult as you know. I'm not going to just open the floodgates to something else that could be abused, which [i]could[/i] happen if we were using some kind of software. However, if we can create a system that censors words in titles...and if you and the other staff are prepared to deal with people who post something offensive as their status, then I'm much more willing to accept a viable alternative.[/color][quote][b]


[size=1]This might be true. I was basing the entire suggestion off of something I saw on a UBB board. I have no idea how different VB Bulletin and UBB are. You win this round, heh.[/size][/quote][/b]

[color=#808080]As I mentioned above, even if your suggestion were workable...I would turn it down. It doesn't fit within the parameters of what I require on this site.

But, as I also said, if someone can bring me an alternative that satisfies my requirements, I'll consider it.[/color][quote][b]


[size=1]Whatever it is, I am sure that Bosko would be a much better choice.

[/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#808080]Since when does Bosko have anything to do with anime [i]or[/i] gaming? lol

You can have him in your sig, if you want.[/color]

[quote][size=1][b]From now on Bosko is the official anime forum mascot.[/quote][/size][/b]

[color=#808080]I hope you're joking.[/color]

[wrist cutter]

Personally I think a simple "no" would've worked better, because now you'll just write longer and longer arguments that'll end up the same way the first one did. Have you ever seen an idea brought up by any member that James has actually deemed "workable"? Neither have I.

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrist cutter [/i]
[B]Have you ever seen an idea brought up by any member that James has actually deemed "workable"? Neither have I. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes. Removing Newbie Lounge, adding strikethrough and spoiler tags, and adding the Cowboy Bebop forum, to name a few. ;)

[quote][b]So you would now want to burden the site's Administration by causing us to manually change user titles? This is unnecessary. Both myself and Charles already have more than enough to do; and Charles' responsibilities will increase over time anyway.[/b][/quote]

Exactly what I was saying. Staff is a lot larger now than it was when custom titles existed. What a hassle it would be now. Staff ranks are custom titles. That's more than enough in my book.

The furthest I would want to go, is labeling normal moderators more effectively. When I was a moderator, people would private message me, asking me to close threads or deal with issues in other forums. I don't think people understand that moderators are limited to specific forums. And, there's some confusion as to who moderates what.

As has been said, people don't pay attention to the main page. >_<;;

[James]

[color=#808080]wrist cutter, if you look at the ideas presented in this particular forum, you might understand [i]why[/i] most of them are unworkable. lol

I'm not objecting to the [i]idea[/i] of having custom titles. I'm just objecting to the format that Shyguy has proposed. This is what I mean when I talk about it being workable; it has to be implemented in a suitable way.

I myself have been thinking about the best way to include such a feature. But it's a very difficult thing to do, especially if you're using some sort of custom template. It takes a while to develop and it takes a [i]lot[/i] of skill. So it's no easy task.

If it were easy to do this, my answer would probably be a definite "yes".

You will find, if you actually perform a little simple research, that I've approved quite a few ideas over time. But when I'm rejecting card game forums, "spam forums", debate forums etc...it can probably look as though I reject everything that comes my way.

Not so. It doesn't take much attention to understand my reasoning. The reason I'm posting more than a simple "no" is because I'm explaining the specifics of my stance to Shyguy and others. If I had just said "no" and closed the thread, would you be any less critical of me? No. It doesn't matter what I do; if I dare make an autocratic decision about my site, I'll be cast in a negative light.

So, these threads do get longwinded...but they get that way because I'm trying my best to explain myself to everyone. That is my option; I don't [i]need[/i] to sit here and reason with anyone. I could simply do everything in secret without any input from the staff whatsoever.

But, as all the staff know, I'm a pretty consultative person. I usually consult with staff before I ban someone, I consult with staff before I make a major decision...etc etc. So don't complain; you're lucky that you're getting what you have now. lol

Regarding what Charles said; I agree. I've also been thinking about expanding individual Moderator titles to be a little more specific. So, yes...even staff titles can be a big issue. When I'm doing it manually, when I'm adding and removing staff are moving staff from one place to another...there are a lot of manual processes involved. And if I added the manual implementation of custom titles for members, it'd be a ridiculous overload.

I don't want to create unnecessary time wasting; the time that Charles and I spend on implementation of such a system could be better spent on dealing with day-to-day boards issues (or longterm issues like new skins and such).

But to reiterate; I'll discuss some options with Justin B. If we can find a way of implementing a custom title system in an appropriate way, I will be more than happy to do it.[/color]

[wrist cutter]

Apparently my post has been taken the wrong way.

I wasn't meaning to put you in a negative light, or anything, just keep both you and Shy from spending so much time on something that simply won't change. Explain all you want, the idea isn't going to fall through.

[James]

[color=#808080]Read my post above; this isn't a hopeless situation.

Shyguy has been willing to explain his idea to me and I'm responding. I'd be happy to include custom titles on OtakuBoards, but [i]only[/i] if it can be done in an appropriate way.

So, yes...if you actually read what I've said thusfar, I've not rejected the concept of custom titles. So the discussion is certainly not pointless. I do understand and accept that there is a desire within the community for this feature; but there is only so much the OB Team can handle at one time. If it becomes feasable to include a custom titles function that also gels with our current system, I'll be the first to encourage and support it.[/color]

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B]Read my post above; this isn't a hopeless situation.

Shyguy has been willing to explain his idea to me and I'm responding. I'd be happy to include custom titles on OtakuBoards, but [i]only[/i] if it can be done in an appropriate way.[/B][/QUOTE]

I think it is. You said it yourself, you don't want to "open any more floodgates", so there ya go. Unless you want to spend days inputting every possible bad word/some variant thereof to censor.

[Semjaza]

In terms of what Charles said, and James referred to... I suggested in a chat that I would like it if mods had more specific titles rather than simply "moderator." Some people don't even seem to realize that I cannot do anything outside of my section, and I think this would help greatly.

I'm glad that others seem to agree with this idea.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrist cutter [/i]
[B]I think it is. You said it yourself, you don't want to "open any more floodgates", so there ya go. Unless you want to spend days inputting every possible bad word/some variant thereof to censor. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#808080]Ah, but you're not concentrating, Mr. Cutter. ~_^

I said that I didn't want to open the floodgates to a system that could be abused. This is true. However, if we can develop a custom titles system that allows for a censor...that would be a different situation.

Currently, most "standardized" custom title software additions don't have a censoring component.

So, once again, my concern has nothing to do with whether or not people have custom titles. It's about what kind of controls we can put in place, how automated the system can be and whether or not it interferes with what we currently have in place on the site.

This is mostly a technical/implementation issue. And, as with various other suggestions in the past that have been a bit tough to deal with on a technical level, I'm looking into whether or not this is feasable. If I can find [i]some[/i] alternative that operates to my specifications, I'll use it.[/color]

[wrist cutter]

But I mentioned that in the last sentence, about spending days on censoring. If you did indeed find some kind of custom title deal, and it had some kind of censoring method, it's not as though it knows all the "swear words". I'm almost positive you'd have to tell it what you want censored, and you can realize how impossible it'd be to put in every word and its variant (such as using symbols that look like an "s"). Unless you just planned on having it use the same censoring system that the posts here use, which is pretty easy to get around.

[James]

[color=#808080]Oh of course, it's impossible to develop a perfect system that blocks everything. Even our current censoring system on the boards, as you've pointed out, isn't perfect. It will block most things (even some symbols), but not everything.

However, the great thing is that we have added to our censor over a period of time. It's much more reliable now than it was before. Yes, you can still get past it -- but if you do, you're breaking the rules anyway.

So, the same would go for custom titles. We could use the same censor that we use in posts. No, it wouldn't be ideal. But it would a lot better than having to constantly edit people's titles; in other words, it'd be better to have an automated censor as opposed to none at all.

Also, I was talking about the question of automation. I don't want myself and Charles to be bogged down in manually adding/removing custom titles here and there. That's too inefficient. I want a system that allows members to put titles in themselves -- but only under certain preset conditions.

[/color]

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B]I want a system that allows members to put titles in themselves -- but only under certain preset conditions.
[/B][/QUOTE]

What would those conditions be?

[James]

[color=#808080]I have no idea. Shyguy pointed out that perhaps the conditions might include the amount of time you've been on the boards. That's one possibility.

Another condition is that we might place restrictions on the length of your title. Or we might have any number of other conditions.

Those are things that I can consider if and when I know that such a customized system is even possible for us to produce. If Justin gives me the green light on it, I can actually go through the practical issues that are involved.[/color]

[Tigervx]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=teal] Well, at the [URL=http://www.bobandgeorge.com/cgi/wbb/main.php]BnG forum[/URL] (Bob and George), they allow custom titles. Even though they have no sign for mods, people usually know who they are. But then, newbs dont, so I'm not sure how that works. But anyways, over there you gotta PM an admin or super mod for them to change your name, but then, they have a lot of admins. I'm just pointing this out.[/SIZE] [/COLOR]

[James]

[color=#808080]Custom titles is a common practice at many forums. But as I said before, OtakuBoards has its own unique needs when it comes to this subject.

So if I can find a way to do this that actually works for us, I will. Obviously every site has its own policies and way of doing things, it's just that the software that other vB-based sites use is the standardized system that I talked about earlier. And we can't apply that here. Whatever we do, we need something to be customized for our own setup.[/color]

[Transtic Nerve]

I think if people want custom titles THAT much, they can really put it in their location. Thats what i did.

Although, I'd like a custom title one day or another. It's not desperately needed that I'm going to care if I don't get it, it's just one of those customs I wouldn't mind you know?

Maybe one could get custom titles under or over their possition on the site (ie: it would say for CWB "Administrator" and then underneath either that or his avatar "frying pan man" or whatever he chooses) I also think that perhaps to make things less difficult that it should only be available to staff members. If it became or wanted for regular members, perhaps the notion of havign each staff member pick one person that could get a custom title or whatever. i dunno, it doesn't really matter to me. Custom titles or not.

[James]

[color=#808080]Perhaps we could add an extra field in the postbit, underneath the avatar that reads "Custom Title:" or something.

I'd be willing to do that; it'd be a lot easier than some of the more complex systems that may otherwise be required.[/color]

[Shy]

[size=1]I'm beginning to think that a simple "No." would have saved everyone a lot of time with this topic..

TN's suggestion seems to be the best one so far, it is more reasonable (and easier to accomplish) then my idea.

And yes, I was joking about Bosko. :whoops:

-Shy[/size]

[James]

[color=#808080]A "no" wouldn't suffice, because the answer was not a "no". ~_^

The answer was a "yes, under certain circumstances".[/color]

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#808080]Perhaps we could add an extra field in the postbit, underneath the avatar that reads "Custom Title:" or something.

I'd be willing to do that; it'd be a lot easier than some of the more complex systems that may otherwise be required.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

That'd look odd with it saying "Custom Title: etc etc"... instead of just the "etc etc" part without the words Custom Title. Otherwise thats a good idea. I think at least.

[James]

[color=#808080]I think people would get used to it. And from what I understand of our software, it's reasonably easy to introduce.

Plus, that field might have bold text...or a different colour. Who knows. Maybe we can even make it so that you can [i]choose[/i] what colour to include. There are [i]many[/i] possibilities besides those that have been mentioned so far.[/color]