Harry Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Consider this... After 9/11, Islamics became the pariahs of the world's collective distrust and contempt. We label them as war-like, aggressive, and traditionalist; Troublemakers and violence craving lunatics serving a strange god. What about the Christians? Europeon christians seeked to unite the world under the name of their god only a few hundred years before. In the process, they butchered nations filled with people lacking in technology, converting them under the sword, and subjugating the survivors to the will of the War Christ. Their crusades against the arabic heathens sought not to take land taken from them, but to drive the arabs into the pacific ocean and claim all of Eurasia for god. If it weren't for capitalism, the entire population of the world today might have it's nose buried in the book of the Bible, living in huts of straw, fearing an invisble man in the clouds, all the while foolishly throwing away a life on earth for that of a lie of life after death. Clearly,they have some apologizing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuoMax Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Wow. You must love flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jenni Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Take him with a grain of salt..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Actually he has a point here. Well sorta. Also Islamic is not a waring religion. This is one of those things that ticks me off more than anything else! Islam teaches peace! These people that did this were not islamic! That were arabic! There is a difference! If you actually look at the Ka'bal you'll see that it teaches peace! You'll notice that it only states that you are allowed to defend yourself. If "Alla" was watching them he would clearly see what they did wasn't defense! Even if they are Islamic they are not fulfilling the Islamic religion! I could say I'm catholic and go aroudn killing everyone in the world. I just wouldn't be fulfilling the Catholic religion. A true Islamic is no where near agressive! I don't think we'd be nose buried in books, we'd still have our own choice, and I'm sure after a couple hundreds of years we would learn that it wasn't right to force someone. These also were not acting out true Christian religion. If we are going to go into this type of discussion. Might as well also list America on the list of in need of Apologizing. We raped, tortured and killed Native Americans. We enslaved African Americans. And we destroyed our enviroment. So who really has the apologizing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posthumous Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [b]I'm Islamic. I'm Turkish also.I do not care about who people are if they're my religon,nationality, or not even the two I will hate them if anything happens to people like the 9/11 attacks.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [size=1]Yes, clearly. *apologizes to everyone on the behalf of a bunch of crazy European extremists who lived several hundred years ago because she falls in the same general religious category*[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sara [/i] [B][size=1]Yes, clearly. *apologizes to everyone on the behalf of a bunch of crazy European extremists who lived several hundred years ago because she falls in the same general religious category*[/size] [/B][/QUOTE] Now don't you feel better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [size=1]Infinitely. My conscience is clearer, the day brighter, and there are warm chocolate chip cookies on the counter, waiting to be devoured. Life is good.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sara [/i] [B][size=1]Infinitely. My conscience is clearer, the day brighter, and there are warm chocolate chip cookies on the counter, waiting to be devoured. Life is good.[/size] [/B][/QUOTE] That's good to hear. I'm glad I could help out one Christian in my life. Today begins a new life for both of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [color=darkblue]Every organization & religion has abused their power or committed atrocious acts at some point. That's just human nature. The only reason everyone is focusing on Muslims now is because of the current fear of terrorism. As soon as the next crisis happens, the attention will shift to the next group of people who will be shunned as a whole for the stupidity of a few. What is the point of this thread, anyway?[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orien_Xel Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [color=blue]:bluesweat Ok....Well, I think both groups have their extremists, nad both groups have their lunatics. 'Nuff said.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jenni Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Macaiodh [/i] [B][color=darkblue]Every organization & religion has abused their power or committed atrocious acts at some point. That's just human nature. The only reason everyone is focusing on Muslims now is because of the current fear of terrorism. As soon as the next crisis happens, the attention will shift to the next group of people who will be shunned as a whole for the stupidity of a few. What is the point of this thread, anyway?[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] What's the point of any thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Altron Gundam Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B] What about the Christians? Europeon christians seeked to unite the world under the name of their god only a few hundred years before. In the process, they butchered nations filled with people lacking in technology, converting them under the sword, and subjugating the survivors to the will of the War Christ. Their crusades against the arabic heathens sought not to take land taken from them, but to drive the arabs into the pacific ocean and claim all of Eurasia for god. If it weren't for capitalism, the entire population of the world today might have it's nose buried in the book of the Bible, living in huts of straw, fearing an invisble man in the clouds, all the while foolishly throwing away a life on earth for that of a lie of life after death. Clearly,they have some apologizing to do. [/B][/QUOTE] You clearly don't know your Christianity then. I'm Christian, but YOU have NO right to go around bashing religion as you do in that way. Just read your last sentence and see it from my persective. You are hugely disrespectful in that aspect, and in may be your opinion, but only state the facts, not your bias damn opinion. For one thing, the Crusades were started by the Roman CATHOLIC Church by the Western Romans to stop the advance of Muslim Turks on the city of Byzantine. This ignited a spiritual insurgence among the Catholic ranks for more war and thus they continued on with the Crusades. Those people knew nothing about Christianity and the Catholic Church bent the words of the Bible to use their "power" as religious figures to their own advantage. Then the Protestant Reformation happened. We aren't war crazed lunatics bent on taking over the world. You may be atheist but shut your damn mouth and consider those around you who might differ from your opinion. I'm a Christian, I don't label Islam as a violent, war-crazed religion. I label those extremists who are bent on destroying people's lives based on their own ambitions and jealousy of America, while using Islam as an excuse. They are just doing the same thing the corrupted Roman Catholic Church did with the Bible in the Middle Ages. Get your damn facts straight, before you go around ranting like a crazed lunatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Altron Gundam [/i] [B] For one thing, the Crusades were started by the Roman CATHOLIC Church by the Western Romans to stop the advance of Muslim Turks on the city of Byzantine. This ignited a spiritual insurgence among the Catholic ranks for more war and thus they continued on with the Crusades. Those people knew nothing about Christianity and the Catholic Church bent the words of the Bible to use their "power" as religious figures to their own advantage.[/b][/quote] So you're saying the slaughter of muslims was acceptable because the Catholics did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jenni Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Altron Gundam [/i] [B]You clearly don't know your Christianity then. I'm Christian, but YOU have NO right to go around bashing religion as you do in that way. Just read your last sentence and see it from my persective. You are hugely disrespectful in that aspect, and in may be your opinion, but only state the facts, not your bias damn opinion. For one thing, the Crusades were started by the Roman CATHOLIC Church by the Western Romans to stop the advance of Muslim Turks on the city of Byzantine. This ignited a spiritual insurgence among the Catholic ranks for more war and thus they continued on with the Crusades. Those people knew nothing about Christianity and the Catholic Church bent the words of the Bible to use their "power" as religious figures to their own advantage. Then the Protestant Reformation happened. We aren't war crazed lunatics bent on taking over the world. You may be atheist but shut your damn mouth and consider those around you who might differ from your opinion. I'm a Christian, I don't label Islam as a violent, war-crazed religion. I label those extremists who are bent on destroying people's lives based on their own ambitions and jealousy of America, while using Islam as an excuse. They are just doing the same thing the corrupted Roman Catholic Church did with the Bible in the Middle Ages. Get your damn facts straight, before you go around ranting like a crazed lunatic. [/B][/QUOTE] Did you know that in the Bible, stoning women to death and raping them was a common concept? Did you know about Lilith, who was banished from Eden because she didn't wanna be under Adam in sexual intercourse? Read the really big bibles that aren't in churches, and you learn a bit of shocking yet useless factoids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anakin Solo Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [b]For one thing, the Crusades were started by the Roman CATHOLIC Church by the Western Romans to stop the advance of Muslim Turks on the city of Byzantine.[/b] So true that is. The Ottoman(or is it still Byzantine at this time?) Empire asked for help Harry, we gave it to them. But yes, what is the point of this thread? I don't like the tone of your "post" I agree with Altron here. I don't find people from other religions as "hurtfull" only the select few individuals I find to cause problems. Not the religion as a whole. But yes, I completely agree with Altron on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anakin Solo [/i] [B] So true that is. The Ottoman(or is it still Byzantine at this time?) Empire asked for help Harry, we gave it to them. [/B][/QUOTE] There were 5 crusades, you're telling me that Byzantine's asked for help all that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 He's just stating what many Americans have thought. He's making a contraversial thread thats all. I don't find it offensive, yet I'm not Christian so I really can't say anything...I'll shut up. The difference between the Turks and the Christian (Crusading wise) was: A)Turks would allow the slaves to move up in society B) TUrks would not kill someone who did not convert... C)Turks left the people alone allowing themselves to rule themselves.... D)They did not steal land from the peasantry for their own people... True there were thigns the Turks did that were as bad. Its not a religion its the humanity. Like Lady_M stated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jenni [/i] [B]What's the point of any thread? [/B][/QUOTE] [COLOR=darkblue]What I was asking there, which you would realize if you had any brains whatsoever, was a rhetorical question designed to get the attention of the mods so they will do something about this. And I don't mean just this thread. I, quite frankly, am sick and tired of the threads being created as of late for the sole purpose of enflaming and insulting the members, and causing pointless arguments that can't be resolved. I don't know why people feel the need to do this, other than intense boredom or lack of a life, but go somewhere else to do it. And I guess after you read this, you and your little friend will rejoice that you've served your intended purpose quite well. Thought-provoking debate is one thing; blatant stupidity is another.[/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Wait, wait. I hate some Muslims because extremists crashed a plane into a building and killed about 2,400 people? No, not really. What I hate are the actual extremist Muslims that burn American flags and perform acts of 'terrorism'. Learn that useful fact, you pugnacious moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegitto4 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B] they butchered nations filled with people lacking in technology, converting them under the sword, and subjugating the survivors to the will of the War Christ. . [/B][/QUOTE] more like the pope, but since the pope controlled everything at the time......yeah. Dont label and blame all christians for what they did in the past, same goes with any religion, or group. Dont hold on to things that ppl did wrong, it's not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I stand corrected on earlier statments... there were 5 crusades. I will apoligize for nothing to no one based on the actions of people from the past who I may or may not be related to. I will only apoligize for my own actions. Your grouping of christians is just as bad as the stereotyping of muslims which you are bringing up. Say what you wish, but keep in mind that everyone including people like myself are also garunteed the right to opine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Altron Gundam Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B]There were 5 crusades, you're telling me that Byzantine's asked for help all that time. [/B][/QUOTE] That's not the issue. The point is the majority of Christians now are Protestant. Yes, there were 5 Crusades, which were all lead by the [b]ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH[/b]. Christians are Protestant genious, the religion you are referring to isn't Christianity, its Orthodox Roman Catholiscm. This drained the Catholic Church of its money and religious backing of the ppl, thus ending the Middle Ages and leading into the Reformation and the Renaissance. Again, get your facts straight. The Byzantines had nothing to do with the Crusades. Only the religious vigor started by the letter to help that came from the Byzantines, gave the Pope the idea to start the crusades. Also, that is no excuse for your last sentences. You may be an atheist, and don't believe in a higher power, but that's your own opinion. I frankly, don't give a damn what you have to say because of that tone. Post in a decent manner, not one that's practically insulting to people around you. Basically if I were to sink down to your pathetic level of degrading people of different opinions I'd say it like this:(excuse my languange OB staff, I'm just making an example, not actually saying it back) "Damn those atheists, aren't they so naive. All they do is f*cking protest that prayer be banned from public schools and they want to take out 'under God' from our Pledge of Allegience. Come on, how stupid can you get? The right is already stated in the Constitution, everyone has religious freedom. Well stop trying to frickin hamper that right every single time you propose to shut another one of our rights down. You don't have to ban prayer, those who want to do it will do it, those who don't won't. That's the bottom line." Thank God, all people aren't like this bubbling idiot who knows nothing of what he's talking about. I don't mind if you've got something to say about Christianity or what not, or your opinion on thoughts regarding 9/11, but those last bias sentences are totally inappropriate and at least should get you a ban warning. Also, just to note, there were technically four crusades. The first crusade gathered around Byzantine in 1097 and failed due to lack of knowledge of navigating around Israel. They captured Jerusalem but only held onto it for a month. The second crusade was in 1144, but muslim leader, Saladin had already captured it. The third crusage was led by three European monarchs, Philip Augustus, Frederick I(Barbarossa), and Richard the Lionhearted. This war ended with a treaty in 1192. Now the fourth crusade only took place because POPE Innocent III appealed for it to gain full control of Jerusalem. This failed, because the knights fighting looted Byzantine instead. If they are ordered by a POPE they are CATHOLIC not Christian. Christians are the people of the Reformation who had NOTHING to do with the Crusades. [quote]Originally Posted by Jenni: Did you know that in the Bible, stoning women to death and raping them was a common concept? Did you know about Lilith, who was banished from Eden because she didn't wanna be under Adam in sexual intercourse? Read the really big bibles that aren't in churches, and you learn a bit of shocking yet useless factoids.[/quote] To your first thing. And you wonder why the Jews aren't known as God's ppl anymore...--; Or at least with the ending of the Old Testament. Two, meh? I don't care, and that has nothing to do with this or Christians for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 How many times must these inflammatory religious threads be closed before it sinks in that they are inappropriate? Why do modern Christians need to apologize for crimes they didn't commit? I have never met a Christian that runs about swinging a sword, in an effort to convert savages. Do you realize how insane this sounds? It's the same as justifying a twenty year old black man's hatred over a random fifteen year old white person. This is a different time. Your comments are as righteous as those who unjustly discriminate against the Islamic religion. This thread serves no positive purpose. It's flamebait. You've created similar threads and they've all been closed. The discussion would not progress. It would be a back-and-forth between people whose opinions aren't changing. Lady Macaiodh is completely right. We don't need magnets for pointless arguments. There is nothing thought provoking about this topic and nothing will be resolved here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts