REVENGE2 Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 A bit of arbitration on my part here. I'm perfectly awear of the games section, but this leans slightly more towards opinions and discussions rather then advice and tips for games, so...I believe it belongs here, and anyway, there is no section for Pen-and-Paper Tabletop RPGs, which is what D&D is. --- I've heard repeatedly things which say how Dungeons and Dragons, the pen-and-paper tabletop Role-Playing-Game, is 'Devil Worship' and 'The spawn of Satan' and a bunch of other things. Never being one to pass up anything which deals with dragons or relgion, I looks it up on Yahoo! and found some sited dedicated to anti-D&D, basing them upon Christian grounds. Being not only a D&D player, but in fact a DM, my opinion on weather or not these grounds properly are based on Christian fact is kinda' biased. Basicly, the argument is this: "Dungeons and Dragons is a pagan thing, because characters go around worshipping Pagan gods, violating the first comandment, and generally being evil people, despite what thier 'alignment' says." To which my responce, as a DM, is "Only if the game-world uses pagan gods. The DM could just as easily incorperate the Christian relgion into the game world, or have no religion at all. This makes life harder for the DM, who must then explain where Evil clerics get thier powers from, but it is possible. The 'first commandment' is not violated, because it's simply [i]imagining[/i] that you are, and the people you kill are evil anyway and can only be stopped through a war. Finally, only an insane DM lets that happen, because then you could not have a class like the Paladin, who must not only be Lawful Good but also be chivilrous, just, and never knowingly associate with evil characters or characters which violate their code of honor, or else they loose thier Paladin abilties. In other words: A Paladin who drinks, wenches, and kills for no reason will no longer be able to cast divine spells, call upon their divine abilties, or in fact be anything but a normal fighter." --- What do you think? About this whole idea of "D&D corrupts Christians"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShinje Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [size=1][color=darkblue] Speaking as a christian, i believe that, if I don't worship the gods the characters worship, then it's okay. many games have characters that worship other Gods, even ones they make up! If I don't worship them, and use the games for gaming alone. Then I won't be corrupted, hopefully :p Though i've nver played D&D, or seen the movie, So I don't know for sure. [/size] [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 A very good question, but I can see this thread easily turning into a religous debate. First off, I don't play D&D. I'm not sure what is 'exactly' involved in playing but I do have a general idea. As to the statement that it corrupts Christians, I have but one thing to say to that: It's just a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [color=red] I'll be watching this thread. If it blows up into another religous debate, consider it closed. As for the question of this thread. I've never played D&D, but I used to be into Magic. They both are related somewhat. Anyways, I don't think it corrupts Christians at all. Humans are the way the are. They are already corrupted more than once in their lives.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathKnight Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [color=crimson]Ahh.. but with my +3 Leather Armor it saves versuses Christian Propoganda. [Dont know if I got that right, its been awhile. lol.][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 With the ever watchful eye of Mitch I hope this thread actually goes somewhere besides said debate. To add another point, Humans aren't perfect. If, in some completely wierd way, the game does corrupt Christians it's because we really aren't perfect. Unlike the imaginary Gods in the game, that is. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zeh Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [color=003399]If you're gonna take religion into concept, what about games like Grandia II, which totally revolve around religion? Isn't that the same? That's the biggest bunch of BS i've ever heard. No wonder society's so corrupted these days. It's only a game, come on! [size=1]We must also realize i'm a really big D&D fan...[/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVENGE2 Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 A peice of advice: DO NOT WATCH THE D&D MOVIE! It rots brain cells and is horribly acted. --- The default idea for the Dungeons and Dragons game is this: 1) The physical setting is about equivilant to that of Medieval Europe 2) Magic, both Arcane and Divine, is real. The basic assumption is that magic is not so rare that there are people who have never seen or heard of it before, but also not so common that it becomes everyday. 3) Arcane Magic is based upon summoning one's own inner power through A) Years of intense study and grueling work (in the case of a Wizard), B) Through an innate 'spark' within oneself (In the case of a Sorcerer), or C) through a little of both (in the case of a Bard) 4) Divine Magic is assumed to come through either A) A God, Gods(in the cases of Clerics) or through the force of Nature (in the case of Druids and Rangers) 5) There are the following basic races: Human, Elves, Half-elves, Halflings, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Half-Orcs. It is assumed that each one has it's own disticnt racial deity (except for humans, half-elves, and half-orcs) and it's own mythos. 6) There are MONSTERS who want to KILL people and the only people around who are willing, or even able, to stop them is YOU, the PLAYER CHARACTER. I don't really see anything which conflicts with Christianity. The Wizard, Sorcerer, and Bard all fall perfectly within the range. It's not like they've sold their souls. In the case of Clerics, generally the DM will allow one to make up a deity to worship, so a character can simple say that he worships God (Although if the character has any sense of style, he's use a differant name for God, such as Jehovah or Yahweh), choose two Domains which he feels God would have, and go around thinking everyone else was a 'pagan' and that the other clerics got thier powers from Satan. This Cleric will not be especially popular amongst the locals, and will face many chalanges throughout his life, but who knows? Once he reaches 6th level, he can gain the Leadership feat, and then start getting an army of followers. --- ALl of you will perish before my [i]+5 Keen Icy Burst Bane (Fire Elemental) scimitar[/i], "Firehater" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Change Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Does Star Wars corrupt then? The first 3 Episodes have a Mythological message and "the force." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVENGE2 Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 Yeah. I bet you could find Christians who say it does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Change Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 I remeber my Bard...got to level 4 with a Perform check of +13...then the team threw her in the Volcano...That was a sad sad day... Alot of Christian fundamentalist don't care that it is make belive...These are the pople who tried to ban a children's book :Harry Potter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 I think that if it's your personal conviction, then by all means, don't play the game. But your conviction is your conviction...not mine. I talk with the Lord on a daily basis. When I'm doing something that endangers my walk with Him, He lets me know it. Basically what I'm saying is this: Some people are genuinely affected by things like that. Those Christians shouldn't play it. However, games and fiction don't bother everyone. So long as it doesn't blatantly blasphem my God, I have little problem with it. There are, however, those Christians who just want to pitch a fit and make the lives of others difficult. They can all just go read the Bible then apply it and do something productive. I'll also be watching this topic with an unbiased eye. Let it slip in either direction, I'll also close it. -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Change Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 *sighs very deeply*- I also speak with the lord...You are talking about Joe Pesci? The things that man can fix with a baseball bat... Here is a little thing that all Chirisitans should read: [url]http://freenet.msp.mn.us/org/mythos/mythos.www/TENCOM.HTML[/url] it's something to mull over and not toss away... [color=red][size=1]Did Mitch and myself not make it clear that this was not to be a religious debate? I ask you, take our warnings seriously. The very next comment made to directly debate any religion will result in the closure of this topic. My warning was clear. -Justin[/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Just launch a skull trap that will do 5d10 damage, that should deal with it. Personally I think the god system in D&D is quite cool, I think it would be awesome if it was like here. There would be no more of these "do they really exist", you'd know they exist and get powers from them. [quote]I don't really see anything which conflicts with Christianity.[/quote] It's a problem only to real religious wackos. It's a problem due to the multiple gods to worship. Instead of a single god, you have an overfather (AO), and hundreds of other gods each being worshipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Macaiodh Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [color=darkblue]I have a few different perspectives on this. First of all, I was forbidden to play the game growing up, & frankly was scared to, because of this exact thing. It's a pretty common point of view... that D & D opened the players' minds to demonic possession. These days, I think this was an overreaction. Now that I know more about it, I realize that it wasn't the game that was the problem but the people playing it. I have known people that have gotten so into their RPGs, not just D & D, that it began to consume their lives. They played it even when they weren't playing it. It became another whole reality to them. In fact, they had a problem distiguishing reality from the fantasy. I even know of one person who sort of "commanded" a whole group of people by keeping the game ongoing in any given setting, 24 hours a day, & the people involved were somewhat brainwashed. It was exactly like a cult. So, yeah, in that case, it became dangerous, especially when there was black magic involved. I don't think that normally happens, though.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fiasco Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Ah, they said this with Harry Potter too. It seems like everyday when something comes out the Christians always have to take it to heart and say its corrupting them. Well, they are retarded, I mean, D&D is a great game, if they don't like it, don't play it, and for those who do play it, enjoy it, you don't have to take it to heart. Meaning you don't have to believe in the fricking game! It's just a game! It's like saying I believe in the Prophecy Of Halo! Master Chief is my god! No, it doesn't work that way, unless your a freak of the game but hey, rare case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [color=#808080]The same thing can be said about Harry Potter or something; there are always nutty people who feel that the media has something to do with Satan worshipping or whatever. I think that most reasonable and intelligent people can differentiate between fantasy and reality. If you are weak minded enough to let some sort of game affect your religious beliefs, then those beliefs must not be very strong in the first place. Really, I think it's just a matter of common sense. Just because I play something like Resident Evil, for instance, doesn't mean that I'm going to go out there and pour petrol over someone and light 'em on fire. Only unstable minded people are going to gain inspiration from any aspect of media -- whether it's a tabletop game or something else. When I see people burning Harry Potter, it makes me angry...because it's so misdirected. I always think that if you're actually [i]afraid[/i] of a book, then your own beliefs must not be particularly firm in the first place. Surely that's a logical conclusion when it comes to something like this.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [size=1]As a DnD player (and not neccessarily a Christian) my opinion might also be a bit biased, but growing up I was not allowed to play the game because my parents thought that it was evil. When I actually came across the games a few years ago I realized that there was not anything evil about them. Yes, the game has it's own set of gods for the characters to worship. Yes, there is witchcraft and other things relating to the dark arts. Yes, a few of the creatures in the games are based on aspects of the bible and other religious texts. This is only a game. There are countless books, tv series, and video games that depict worlds without the Christian God. Are all of them evil? Assuming that you don't start worshipping your +4 Longsword in real life, there shouldn't be a problem with it. But I have seen people use this game as a means to live out whatever sick and twisted fantasies they have in their heads. There will always be people who take works of fantasy too seriously, just look at all of the people who dress up in cosplay. From my personal experience, DnD is not an evil game. -Shy[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [color=green]personaly, i think that the game isn't satanic. it can corupt christians, but so can just about anything else. it's not about the game itself, but how you let the game get to you. there are some games which i do consider to be evil, due to person experiances, but they all had to due with literally finding your 'inner guidence' and chanting serten words to make what you want to happen. those, in my opinion, are satanic. everything else i had to say has already been said, or will just cause a religious debate, so i will end it here.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [color=#808080]You know, there's a site (I forget the name) that talks about corruption of Christians via D&D and Pokemon. One example cited was a boy who stole money from his mother in order to buy the latest trading card collection. When confronted he said "the devil told me to take the money" and his entire family burnt the cards and prayed for him to get better. o_O Can you believe that? That little bastard should have been [i]punished[/i]. lol I've never seen a more clear cut case of scapegoating in all my life. God forbid that their child was a stupid little brat -- no, it was the [i]devil[/i] who did it. lol I don't think we'll ever stop having people who feel that games influence their kids or something. It's bound to happen. Thankfully, most people are logical enough to realize that you can't blame a game for life's ills. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuoMax Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Anyone who thinks DnD is evil will perish either by my 12th level cleric's [i]+3 Holy Morningstar of Frost[/i] or by the spell [i]Flame Strike[/i] which calls down a Holy flame upon the unbeliever! DOOM! Just kdding. Anyway, people who think DnD corrupts people needs to seek professional help from a psychologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Excellent point, Deb. With things like D&D and Harry Potter, the devil isn't in the game or book or whatever. The devil is in the person whose faith is so weak as to allow that that to corrupt them. It's those people who shouldn't play it/read it/do it. In fact, if they want to call themselves Christians, they need to be in church building on their relationship with God. Because if a game can corrupt them, imagine all the other things out there in reality land that will get to them. But, as I said, some people just want to make a scene and say "Oh, look how great a Christian I am because I'm casting out demonic things in the name of Christ." If you want to know what Christ says back, you'll find it in the Book of Revelations, if I'm not mistaken. -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deedlit Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [color=009966]It's just a game. I mean, it's not like we're off creating our own religion or anything. As long as you don't take it seriously, I consider that it's OK.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyLyn Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Revelation. Non-plural, my dear Justin. ;) I once had a weird bible study leader gripe me out for that. What everyone said, pretty much. When you start getting into it, it's not a matter of corrupting a Christian so much as [i]any[/i] person living in some fantasy world too much--and yes, needing pysche help by that point. The question has been raised of the mere [i]thought[/i] of doing what is considered a sin is sin itself. Therefore, some of the people that seem to warp certain faiths *delicately treds fine line of debate* like to scream nice and long about how it's screwing with our youngsters. Ya know what? The kids are gonna find out about the rest of the world, one way or another. Keeping them in the dark will just make them all the madder when they find out they been kept sheltered, keeping them from developing in a social and societal sense. I played DnD once. I don't see what the big deal is, either for it or against it. Final Fantasy tends to float my boat a lot more. (Though I recall getting into a food fight with a dwarf using sacred but rotten temple fruit. What weirdness. *lol*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShinje Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [size=1] [color=darkblue] The Harry Potter book series has been attacked by the christian community for it's occultish powers. It is important to realise J.K Rowling uses real occultsh chants. However, our church has a book on Harry Potter, it's a guideline to reading it! Christians can read Potter books, just to let you know.[/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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