Is there ever a good enough reason for suicide?

[wrist cutter]

I'm wondering, do you think killing one's self is ever justified? Is there ever a good enough reason for doing it? Or is it always a "selfish and thoughtless" act?

[dd protector]

I beleive it can never really be justified anywhere except in a persons own mind. life can never really be worth destroying.
In a persons mind they may think that there doing the world a service by destroying themself but in reality death can never be justified not even really in normal conditions. Because all your really doing is hurting someone, cause someone will always be sorry that person is dead.

[Vegitto4]

Are They Justified? Depends. In there own minds, yes. Personally, No. But thats because I think that Killing yourself is, a selfish fact. [b] You [/b] think that [b] your [/b] Worthless and that everyone hates [b] you[/b] and that no one will notice when [b] your [/b] gone. Everyone goes through that, sometimes multiple times a day, depending on the person. Anyone that kills themselves does not relaize the havoc that they would end up inflicting on loved ones. If somebody is getting onto you, and "screwing up" your life, then that is because of something wrong with them. [b] Not You[/b]

[Harry]

Of course there are plenty of justifiable reasons. Like spilling a drink at a restraunt, you can't come back from an ego crusher like that. A flat tire, think of all the people that can see you on the side of the road and laugh. Get in a traffic jam? Why live through that? Plenty of justifiable reasons.

[Frankie]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i]
[B]Of course there are plenty of justifiable reasons. Like spilling a drink at a restraunt, you can't come back from an ego crusher like that. A flat tire, think of all the people that can see you on the side of the road and laugh. Get in a traffic jam? Why live through that? Plenty of justifiable reasons. [/B][/QUOTE]

A: you seem pretty sarcastic there Harry

B: There is none in my opinion. I tried it once.. failed horribly even thansk to shaun here on OB. THe people in your life they love you even if they move of are never around. You are important no matter what you think or others think. I had to learn that from my friends Don and Tab... they try to pound in my head that i...am important.

I wrote on a list of thinks i need to do .. "find a reason to live" They mentioned many..

Suicide is the "easy" way out.. but in reality.. there is no easy way out and... you still dont get OUT of the situation.. sure you might be dead but think of the hell you would put your family through...or the ones who truely did care for you..

i feel suicide is pointless ... if you honestly want help and you think suicide is the answer go to a psychiatrist... or a therapist.. they help
thats my wierd opinion

[Mei]

[color=green]Haha...I guess I shouldn't be surprised at this kind of topic.Oo Personally I don't believe suicide is right. Mainly because I went through all those thoughts and stages, and realized the true faults of it all. You do feel useless to the world, and think you will be doing everyone a favor by destroying the gift of life. Hmm...well, guess what, here's something new, that's not true.--

As I'm sure you've heard before, suicide is considered selfish.*points up at some of zee other posts* But in other's eyes, its a way to escape the pain of the world, or try to detroy yourself thinking your're going to make other's happy. Humans have strange minds...because if you think really deeply about it, suicide is just a way of running.

I think that suicide is cowardice, and yet, it takes a whole crapload of courage to do it. Many people say they are going to commit suicide, but they aren't NEAR brave enough to, they won't even slit themselves.

Really suicide thoughts, even if you don't realize it, are just a way of wanting people to feel sorry for you when your gone. Hoping they wish they were nicer to you, or that they were complete heartless idiots who should have cared more.

To sum this up a little, suicide is viewed is many different ways, but either way, it isn't REALLY justified. Your either wanting people to feel sorry for you, wanting to run from your problems, or thinking your going to be doing the world a favor by removing your presence from the face of the earth. This about it. Any of the reasons you should realize are going to cause pain to other people, probably moreso than to you, whether you want it to or not.

I again sum it up that suicide=pain. That's all for now. Sorry if this post wasn't too clear.^^() Thankyou.[/color]

[Charles]

People who commit suicide want people to feel sorry for them? I find that highly unlikely.

Suicide is [i]powerful[/i]. I will say that; it causes a lot of pain, confusion and suffering for those involved with the victim. But, suicide isn't selfish in nature, no sir. It's not pointless or necessarily cowardice either.

It's safe to say that most who commit suicide usually suffer from heavy psychological problems, like severe depression. If not, they don't realize the significance of taking their own life. They kill themselves without really [i]wanting[/i] to. In the back of their minds, they think that someone will stop them--or they just don't realize the finality of their actions. That much is common sense.

The act of taking one's own life, tends to be the end result of feeling insignificant, though. Or, in some cases, individuals might view themselves as being a nuisance to those around them; they think that they'll be doing their loved ones a justice by taking themselves out of the picture. They probably doubt that they will be missed because they've not been given enough attention or have been wronged by someone they care about. Whatever the case, the future looks too bleak and worthless to pursue and the present is too painful to endure.

So, [i]no[/i], people who commit suicide aren't [i]stupid[/i] and they aren't selfish--they're suffering. I'm not saying that suicide is the correct thing to do. But, I can understand where those with suicidal tendencies are coming from.

And, I wonder. I wonder who's more selfish: Those who take their own lives, or those who view suicide as unjustifiable because they don't understand kind of pain the suicide victims were dealing with--because it makes them take a step back and look at their own mortality. And, in some cases, they have to look at themselves in the mirror and realize that their own ingorance played a part in the suicide victim's demise. Hm?

[Juu]

[color=ff00cc] [size=1]I agree with Mei. *nods* Though I don't think it's always for self-pity or attention.

Alot of people seem to think if they have a problem, (i.e.: Their girlfriend left them..etc.), they can escape it by killing themselves and ending everything. And a few people said above, it's not just like you're going to disappear, and no one's going to care about it. But that's not the case. There are people who care about you, and love you, and you'll be putting them in the same position you were in before you died. If you really cared about the people who cared about you, I think you would really think twice before hurting them.

Sooo... I'm pretty much against it. And I think you should really try to live up to your life and make the best of it, instead of thinking you can just solve your problems by ending your whole life.

A few of my friends seem to think about it sometimes, though. *fwaps each of them with a cookie*[/color] [/size]

[Guest Hikaru Ichijyo]

I don't think suicide is justified in any matter what so ever. No matter how much pressure is going on in your life, or stress it can be handled eventually with therapy and treatment. I lost one family member to suicide, and I lost someone I use to be best friends at school with just recently to suicide.

Both were very foolish reasons...though definitely nothing justifies taking your own life.

[Guest Crimson Spider]

If people who would commit suicide would ask this question: In ten years, is it going to really matter? If they asked themselves that question, there would be a lot less cases.
As for a good cause, not heard of in America. Most people who commit suicide are acting like spoiled children and are usually unstable to begin with. "My girlfriend left me so I'm going to kill myself" Why don't you just cry to your mommy and when she does nothing, run away in the middle of the night only to come back two days later because this harsh cruel world wasn't the piece of cake you thought it would be! :bawl:
But if your like stuck in afganistan and Osama is torturing you until you tell him info about your country, go ahead and kill youself. Other hypotheticle situations like that would be alright. And if in some unusual and rare case, if you don't kill youelf, some other people are going to die, then go ahead and to it.

[Mitch]

[color=black][size=1][font=rockwell] Charles pretty much said what I was going to say. *cough*Damn you, Charles*cough*. Heh, reading this reminds of the end of Julius Ceasar. When Brutus kills himself. I don't know why, but it did. Ah well. I'm all with Charles, as I said. His point is pretty hard to argue; and, also, it's exactly or near what I would've said.[/color][/size][/font]

[Mnemolth]

Killing oneself, in certain circumstances, is justifiable. Japan has a long tradition of suicide that is considered both courageous and honourable. To take responsibility for one's action, or in defiance, suicide can, in extreme cases, be an option.

I also believe that the aged, the invalid, and those suffering insufferable pain from a terminal illness with no cure or effective treatment have a good cause to take their own life. And in most cases, such action is far from thoughtless. And attention-seeking is the last thing on their minds.

Of course I realise you speak of a different kind of situation. Teenage suicide. I think in almost all cases, teenage suicide is unjustifiable, unless it falls within the purview of the above. However, I mention these other forms of suicide because I'd like to remind everyone that taking one's own life is a very complicated thing, and never quite as simple, in terms of ethics and morality, as some people have the tendency to make it out to be. On both sides of the debate.

[GinnyLyn]

Mei covered it pretty well for me. Suidical people are NOT stupid, as Charles pointed out. But sometimes I wonder if it is a scream of attention.

I've seen the effects of suicide from a distance, I've felt attempted suicide both second [i]and[/i] first hand. Now, unless you are just completely devoid of emotions, you're feeling some knee-jerk reaction to go, "Oh, I'm so sorry for you!" Human nature.

There are levels, I believe, of suicidal people. You got your fleet thinkers who aren't really gonna do it, your attention getters who are just down on their luck, and your serious people who desperately need help. I had a nasty spell of being at the dangerous end of the second one (nearly into the third), until I saw my mom blow past me and attempt back in Feb. I know most of you remember that.

Her reasoning was that nobody loved her and that the only person that HAD died nearly a year ago (my *bitter sarcasm* wonderful uncle */bitter sarcasm* that she talks about endlessly now). Do you have any [i]idea[/i] how much it broke my heart for her to accuse me of never loving her? So, I'm sorry, Charles, but the people around a suicidal person are not responsible 100%. That is one thing the people left behind struggle with constantly. I still ache from wondering if I was responsible for Mom's attempt.

Even now, we are still uncomfortable talking about it, me and her. She was always the type to get attention to push her insecurities away (and I am just like her, so don't think I'm dissing on my mama), living with the traumatic childhood, etc. But, because I know how she feels because of how I feel, there are some steps she could have taken to prevent this.

My aunt feels that her attempting brought it clear to the surface my mom was suffering. I've seen a little change in the family attitude toward Mom, and whether it achieved what she was trying...who knows. It's hard to be around her for me now, though...it's as if she's made it MORE difficult for me to give her attention (and I used to think we were best friends, till this...). Seeing what happened because of this fortunately snapped me out of my depressive state--I swore I would never let it happen to me. It hasn't yet.

As far as "is it justifiable?", I think that, one a suicidal person is in that state of mind, they are beyond the reach of what they consider "justifiable". We can judge, from outside their pain and hurt, whether it was (and I feel there never is a good reason), but we won't be in the realm of feeling what they are. I've seen both sides (just about)--believe me.

OK, so there's my ramble. And here's a question to add on to the first one: is attempting as "bad" (for a tremendous lack of a better word) as the actual suicide? Is attempting justifiable?

[Red]

[b][size=1]I think suicide is perfectly justifiable. But, I also agree that it is pretty selfish; since if you are doing it to end your own pain, you're only going to cause pain to those who care for you.

However.. I think some people fail to see how depressing and bad life can really get. Many people get to the stage where they just think "what's the point?" and decide to end it all. It just feels as if there is no point in living through another day of pain and anger, why should you have to put up with one more day of it when it can be ended so easily.

Recently I tried to kill myself, twice. I wasn't doing it to gain attention, or to make people feel bad about treating me badly 'after I was gone' or whatever. I did it because I had never felt so bad in my entire life. Depression didn't even go near how bad I felt, and I know that I had viable and valid reasons for feeling so down at the time.

To me, it seemed as if ending my life would have just given me a release; since, to be perfectly honest, my life was an utter pile of steaming crap.[/b][/size]

[quote]And, I wonder. I wonder who's more selfish: Those who take their own lives, or those who view suicide as unjustifiable because they don't understand kind of pain the suicide victims were dealing with--because it makes them take a step back and look at their own mortality. And, in some cases, they have to look at themselves in the mirror and realize that their own ingorance played a part in the suicide victim's demise. Hm?[/quote]

[b][size=1][i]Very[/i] well said, Charles.[/b][/size]

[Zephyr]

Personally, I think that anyone who tries suicide is trying to take the chicken-**** way out of a problem. There is no excuse for killing yourself (or saying you will) to escape trouble in life or gain attention. There are other ways to do that in life, even if they are harder.

The only time I could ever agree to suicide being justified is if a person says to their family that they be removed from life support if they are brain dead (though it can be argued that is not suicide).

[Red]

[quote]Personally, I think that anyone who tries suicide is trying to take the chicken-**** way out of a problem. There is no excuse for killing yourself (or saying you will) to escape trouble in life or gain attention. There are other ways to do that in life, even if they are harder.[/quote]

[b][size=1]I have a serious problem with attitudes like that towards suicide. The problem is, to a person that far down, there isn't any other way out. For me, my life is still a complete and utter mess, and sometimes I wonder why I even bothered to live a few days longer.

The chicken-**** way out of a problem, huh? When having hades tickle your toes seems more inviting than life, you tell me the same thing.[/b][/size]

[Braidless Baka]

Really there are two sides to the suicide debate. From the side of the person attempting suicide (I'm gonna go with Ginny's point here) of course it's justifiable. That doesn't mean they think it's right, of course they'd want to keep on living if they saw a reason. But it can be justified merely because they've attempted it. Even if they're attention seeking... There's got to be a reason they're seeking attention...

And then there's the friends of the person. According to them it's selfish and a cowardly way out. "Think of all the people they hurt" "Think of what they're throwing away" "[insert problem here] will be over soon" So, according to them, there is no way to justify it. Maybe they're being selfish by wanting the person to continue living a life they don't want to live anymore? Not stating an opinion here BTW, just something to think on...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i]
[B]I also believe that the aged, the invalid, and those suffering insufferable pain from a terminal illness with no cure or effective treatment have a good cause to take their own life. And in most cases, such action is far from thoughtless. And attention-seeking is the last thing on their minds.[/B][/QUOTE]

I also agree with that... Euthanasia has been a hot topic in the last few years, in Europe at least... Few coutries have it legalised, because it is just another form of suicide. But in the case of euthanasia I totally agree. What they do with their lives is up to them. Many people who consider euthanasia think about it for a looooooong time before coimg to any type of decision. And, as Mnemolth pointed out, it's far from thoughtless or attention seeking.

So, is suicide justifiable?
How long is a piece of string?

[WickedThought]

Will the problem is I've never had much respect for life and the **** it will put you through, so I can see where a suicidal person is coming from could be justifiable since it's his choice. I even will go as far as to say that the people who feel "SO" bad are almost just as selfish. They them selfes are not letting the person go and excepting what he/she did in them selfes. They just keep holding on to a hate for what the person did so screw them. They deserve the pain for not realizing the persons choice between life and death. NOT TO MENTION, ASK YOURSELF WHAT IS DEATH AND WHAT DO YOU EXPECT.^_^


*********

Ok that was my wicked side now.

No matter what life, or god if you blame him, puts you through you should always live as long as you can to get what you can out of life and mabey find another reason for living as simple as that:cool: (and remember to live for anime, music, and games;)

[wizard-of-oz]

theres no reason for suicide. if you have some money you can hire someone to do it for you. that way theres more thrill to it. and you dont look as bad. plus, what are you gona do with the money. if you give me enough money i will kill you. just a thought

[James]

[color=#808080]I agree with Charles, basically.

Out of all the people who [i]threaten[/i] suicide and who talk about having attempted it, I'd guess that about -5% would ever go through with it and maybe 10% have actually ever tried in any substantial way.

The point I'm trying to get across with that is simply that suicide is a very serious issue. People tend to throw the word around as though it is meaningless. But it's not.

People suicide for various reasons. In many cases, people are suffering from severe psychological problems. But in [i]some[/i] cases, there are some very selfish motives going on. I think it really depends on the person and their circumstances.

I think the big problem is when people continually threaten suicide as a way of securing some sort of comfort and support from people. I call that emotional blackmail. And I think it's possible for someone to do it so often that they totally forget/don't realize how much of an impact it can have on people close to them. So, if you're always talking about it but never doing it...don't talk about it. Because you're only talking about it to the detriment of those you love.

The non-serious cases are ones that I generally ignore.

But the serious cases are extremely sad...and there are some major issues involved. In terms of whether it's justified or not...I don't know.

If you're feeling depressed and you consciously decide to end your life, I think that's a selfish act. If you [i]attempt[/i] to suicide and you're aware of what you're doing, I consider it to be selfish. Because it [i]will[/i] hurt those around you, make no mistake.

So when is it justified? I don't know if it's ever justified. Perhaps if you put yourself in a dangerous situation to save others (if you can call that suicide), maybe then it's legitimate. I really don't know. I can't generalize about it; I can only talk about it on a case by case basis, if it's a serious case.

EDIT: Oh, I'd also add...euthanasia for the terminally ill is something that I support. I consider it to be humane under those circumstances.[/color]

[Zephyr]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Elite [/i]
[B][b][size=1]I have a serious problem with attitudes like that towards suicide. The problem is, to a person that far down, there isn't any other way out. For me, my life is still a complete and utter mess, and sometimes I wonder why I even bothered to live a few days longer.[/b][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

The chicken-**** way out of a problem, huh? When having hades tickle your toes seems more inviting than life, you tell me the same thing.[/b][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]



The only reason there is no way out is because no one ever looks. There is always a way out if you put effort into it. The problem in no one does. They think they are S.O.L. and have no choice. A person resorting to suicide is basically saying "I give up." They will not even bother putting up a fight.


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Elite [/i]
[B][b][size=1]The chicken-**** way out of a problem, huh? When having hades tickle your toes seems more inviting than life, you tell me the same thing.[/b][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]


Unlike others, I do not give up that easily. I would rather die trying then then to run scared and kill myself. I have to much respect for myself to just quit like that.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Black_Phoenix [/i]
[B]


The only reason there is no way out is because no one ever looks. There is always a way out if you put effort into it. The problem in no one does. They think they are S.O.L. and have no choice. A person resorting to suicide is basically saying "I give up." They will not even bother putting up a fight.[/b][/quote]

[color=#808080]The thing is, your assertion is an oversimplification of the real issues.

Yes, suicide is "giving up". But obviously, everyone is in a different situation. Some people don't have the luxury of being able to look for other solutions -- a sane, stable person can do that for sure. But a mentally unstable, heavily depressed person doesn't have the basic "mental luxuries" that you and I might have.

I would never resort to suicide, because I [i]know[/i] I have other options, I [i]know[/i] that I have responsibilities to my family and friends and I [i]know[/i] that I can get help if I need it. But it's important to note that a lot of people don't have that presence of mind.[/color][quote][b]





Unlike others, I do not give up that easily. I would rather die trying then then to run scared and kill myself. I have to much respect for myself to just quit like that. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#808080]Once again, that's you. And that might be anyone with a strong presence of mind; someone with a sane and healthy mental position.

Unfortunately, there are people who are locked in a cage and can't get out -- when that cage is within your own mind, the entire scenario becomes somewhat different, to say the least.[/color]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]Earlier, I made a snide remark awnsering the question "is suicide ever justifiable"...it wasn't really an attempt to demean those who have contemplated suicide (I wasn't stating that stupid people commit suicide, I was trying to say that only stupid people should kill themselves, remember I've always been a tactless, tasteless person).

Although my attempt at humor was callous, I tend to try and shed humor an demons that I have faced in my past. Late in high school and early in college I suffered from a severe depressive disorder, mainly deriving from a mixture of social stress and genetic inheritence (my family has a history of both depression and alcholism, which tend to run hand in hand). I contemplated sucide many times, however, no matter how bad things got, I always realized how it would effect my parents and my kid sister. Suicide is a horribly selfish act, a cowardly act; a person that contemplates suicide needs to seek counceling quickly because they are not in a sane and logical frame of mind.

On a different note, I don't consider euthanaisa suicide (even though it is o form of sucide). Take the people who jumped from the trade center during 9/11 (I would consider this a form of self euthanaisa). They chose how to die, rather then facing a possible agonzing death by fire or being crushed, they picked a swift, merciful death.[/color]

[DeathKnight]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Black_Phoenix [/i]
[B]Unlike others, I do not give up that easily. I would rather die trying then then to run scared and kill myself. I have to much respect for myself to just quit like that. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=crimson]Dont flash your ego in a thread that is so seriously based on people who have no more means to cope than ending their own lives. lol.

Its a matter of choice. Asking if Suicide is wrong, or if theres any reason. All it boils down to is the moral, religious, and ethical opinon of the person, and if they really cannot take it anymore.

But to me suicide is fine. Its your life, and you can do what you will with it, if you take into account how it will affect others and are fine with that.[/color]

[Sara]

[SIZE=1]Many of you seem very certain about this topic...And while I commend you for your conviction, I hope you would use gentler words when speaking with someone who needs help.

*soft smile* Suicide is bad. It hurts people. Hurting is bad. But often, suicide is the last attempt to stop a lifetime of hurt. [/SIZE]