Is there ever a good enough reason for suicide?

[Mei]

[color=green] I guess before the point I was trying to make is that, overall, suicide revovles around pain and suffering. There are many good points in this thread, but in MY OPINION...thats me speaking, don't take offence, it is all about pain. Whether it is to escape pain, or to cause pain to others...

Suicide will always be a serious thing though, no matter what its about, because no life should be lost like that, or any other way. No life is more or less important that the next, each should be valued equally.

I have to actually agree with Black_Phoenix on something though, you shouldn't give up on life. It sucks, but life is also a gift. You should value the little good things that happen moreso than the bad. If you are comtemplating about suicide yourself...tell someone, family, a therapist or a friend, anyone...but don't go through with it, life is just too great for that.[/color]

[Wintermute]

I certainly do not think suicide is the cowardly way out, anyone who is able to do that to themself is very brave in my opinion.

However, I don't personally think it's ever justified. If life is SO bad, that the only option is to opt out, then surely life can only get better?

I was once on the verge myself, but I stopped and thought. I thought about why I was so depressed, and whoes fault it was. I thought about what could be done. Instead of coming out of that situation untroubled, but dead, I came out determined to change things. And I have. At the moment I am a MUCH happier person than I was a few years ago. Life isn't perfect, (what is?) but its a big improvement.

Now I'm sure you will have tried to change the circumstances, probably many times, so I'll just say this : Never give up.

When things can't get any worse, they can only get better.

[TheShinje]

[size=1][color=darkblue] I have contemplated suicide,albeit a very long time ago, and thank goodness I didn't act on it, and I learnded a valuable lesson

When my life was one big **** hole, I kept promising myself it will get better, human nature will have it's ups and downs and theres nothing you can really do about it, My advice to anyone thinking to opt out of life is, grit your teeth, bear it and simply think of better days ahead, I assure you, they will come ~_^ [/size][/color]

[Vegitto4]

After hitting rock bottom, the only way you can go is up, unless someone left a Jackhammer for you.

Oh, and BP. It's people like you, people that think they can take on anything, that piss me off most of the time. I admit that I feel like i can do that every once in awhile, but thats only when I'm Manic(i'm bipolar). When I'm crashing, the only thing i want to do is slide that knife through my wrist, or pull the trigger, or not coe up from the bottom of my pool, or take my mom's meds x4.

Sorry for the ranting.

[Guest Crimson Spider]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vegitto4 [/i]
[B]After hitting rock bottom, the only way you can go is up, unless someone left a Jackhammer for you. [/B][/QUOTE]

Pessimistic quote: You can always go to the side and things get worse in a different way.

There are always those sadistic freaks who want to kill themselves to torture their family and friends because they are convinced in their minds that they hate them. Even if they really don't and they just lie to themselves, they'll still do it because they began to believe that lie that they have told themselves over and over. (weak minded freaks)

People in this world are really sick nowdays.

[Zephyr]

[quote][b]Some people don't have the luxury of being able to look for other solutions -- a sane, stable person can do that for sure. But a mentally unstable, heavily depressed person doesn't have the basic "mental luxuries" that you and I might have.[/b][/quote]

Okay, this (talk of mental illness) is where all arguements break down. I was talking about people that are fully aware of what they are doing, the result and everything else. Unfortunately, a person with mental illness will probably not have such a choice.

On the same note, this whole subject could not fully apply to people with mental illness or depressiong, because they may not know what they are doing. You cannot say the actions of a person who is unaware are justified or not justified.


[quote][b]Dont flash your ego in a thread that is so seriously based on people who have no more means to cope than ending their own lives. lol.[/b][/quote]

I would have to care what others thought of me in order to flash my ego. What I said was a statement of fact.

[quote][b]Oh, and BP. It's people like you, people that think they can take on anything, that piss me off most of the time.[/b][/quote]

Umm, am I supposed to care? Most people piss me off on a regular basis, [i]deal with it[/i]. And, I [i]DO NOT[/i] think I can take on anything. I know I have limits, I know what most of them are, but I am still willing to try. If my willingness to try pisses you off then all I can say it good. I feel that I have accomplished something.

[Guest butterfly]

i don't know what my thoughts are on this topic. it varies for different circumstances. some people have a justified reason for killing themslves, but i find that others only do it because they are too weak to handle life's responsiblities. if they can't they should ask for someones help. but only atempting to kill yourself for attention is the most selfish and childish thing to do. how ironic that it is teenages who have the highest sucide and attempted sucide rate in the world.
but then again i'm not really one to comment, for i haven't lived their life and expereinced what they have experienced so i can not decide whether their decision is justified. if that makes sense??

[The Harlequin]

[font=gothic][color=crimson]Just a note on mental illnesses, for whichever one of you peopl decided it was good line of logic to follow... As probably the only person on this board who has actually gone through it (schizophrenia for a year and a half), I can quite confidentally say that you should review the facts before trying to say that people simply kill themselves, or that they are unaware of what they are doing. Do you think we just completely lose all our faculties? Do you have any idea how severe a case has to be for that to happen? Do you actually know the first thing about mental illness in any form it the first place? Certainly, I've got a few scars running along my arms, placed there during my bout of schizophrenia, but do you think that was because I was unaware of what I was doing?

Mental luxuries indeed. ********.


Just onto topic then, I do believe that in certain situations that suicide is warranted. [/font][/color]

[James]

[color=#808080]I don't know if you're pointing to me or not in that post, Harlequin. But to answer your point -- my cousin suffers from mental illness. And she has had mental illness for several years now; her condition has been decreasing for a while.

And I can tell you that from having someone close to me in my family go through this, I understand mental illness. My cousin actually has a number of illnesses -- schitzophrenia is a very generic term used to describe general symptoms/conditions. You can be schitzophrenic and be essentially "normal" with a clearly logical train of thought. Or you can have a complete loss of control and mental presence.

I did not mean to imply that people [i]don't know what they're doing[/i]. What I'm trying to point out is that there are many reasons for suicide. And in many cases, there is a level of mental "illness" involved. It might not be a diagnosed illness or something incredibly serious (it might be anything from a slight depression to something far more invasive). The point is, in most cases, suicide isn't occurring when a person has full presence of mind.

I think the term "mental luxuries" is [i]very[/i] appropriate here, in illustrating the issue.

There was an attempt to say that suicidal people simply "are too weak" to deal with issues in life. And I was trying to explain that everyone has different coping abilities -- everyone isn't the same. And depending on the individual (their level of depression/mental illness/personal circumstances/etc), the situation will always be different. And thus, the explanation or "rationale" for suicide will always be unique.

So I'm saying that it's [i]easy[/i] for a non-depressed, mentally fit person to sit there and say "Well that's just stupid; suicide is only for the weak". That's a very dismissive comment. We have to understand that there are many complex issues involved. It's not simply a case of "being weak". Different levels of mental illness (from mild to severe) can play a massive role in a person's judgement and their ability to cope with their surroundings. If you are mentally ill and you commit suicide, does it mean that you don't know what you're doing? No, not at all. It just means that your threshold -- in terms of actually committing the act -- is different.

It's very important in a discussion like this to accurately interpret what people are saying. I'm coming at this from a position of having some knowledge -- and everyone has different levels of that. I [i]hope[/i] that I'm a bit clearer with my point in this post.[/color]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Heaven's Cloud [/i]
[B][color=indigo] Late in high school and early in college I suffered from a severe depressive disorder, mainly deriving from a mixture of social stress and genetic inheritence (my family has a history of both depression and alcholism, which tend to run hand in hand).[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]


[color=indigo]Hmmm, and here I always thought that by suffering, and continuing to battle for it is never truly gone, a severe depressive disorder I had gone through a mental disorder. I guess I am wrong, my daily hell must have been incredibly sugar coated.

Harlequin, while I am sure you were attacking this thread in a general way, I think your post is way out of line. Your right, maybe I don't know what you've been through, but you don't know what I've been through either. I hate when people take a "my pain is worse than your pain" attitude. You should be using your experience to help sympathize with others that have a similar circumstance to your own. While my earlier joke may have been callous and crude, I find your remarks to be personally insulting.[/color]

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Black_Phoenix [/i]
[B]Okay, this (talk of mental illness) is where all arguements break down. I was talking about people that are fully aware of what they are doing, the result and everything else. Unfortunately, a person with mental illness will probably not have such a choice.

On the same note, this whole subject could not fully apply to people with mental illness or depressiong, because they may not know what they are doing. You cannot say the actions of a person who is unaware are justified or not justified.[/b][/quote]

[color=#808080]But I don't think you grasp the full extent of my point.

Mentally ill people [i]often[/i] are fully aware of what they are doing. And the term "mentally ill" is being used by me in a very general way -- as I said to Harlequin, I could be talking about someone with more severe symptoms (who still knows what they're doing) or someone with far less severe symptoms (like mild depression).

Of course, I'm talking about people who know what they're doing when they commit suicide. I would never even bother referring to those who have no idea what they're doing -- because that really doesn't relate to the subject.

So, I never said that we're talking about people who have no knowledge of what they're doing. That's important to remember.

Again, as I said to Harlequin (and I guess anyone who is reading), you can know what you're doing...you can [i]know[/i] that you're killing yourself (I'd imagine that most people do have that presence of mind afterall, even on a basic level), and obviously that suggests that you have a different coping ability to other people.

As I said, it's not merely a question of how hard you try or how courageous you are. To say that is to simplify the entire issue. It's a question of what [i]you[/i] can cope with and what you are going through. Everyone thinks in a different way and everyone has different ways of coping with problems -- something that's easy for you isn't necessarily easy for a more depressed person. To say to someone "aw god, just try harder" or something is not only somewhat cruel, but it's also pretty arrogant. It is based on the assumption that everyone has the same coping ability as you. And that's just not the case.[/color]

[The Harlequin]

[font=gothic][color=crimson]Just to Heaven's Cloud and James, I had actually only read this last page here when I made the post, and was talking mainly to Black Pheonix about people with mental illnesses being in control of their actions.

And Heaven's Cloud, I was no in way trying any "My pain is worse than your pain" line, trust me, I get that all the time myself, I know how stupid and annoying it is.

Oh, and just for informatory purposes, what I suffered was a form of childhood schizophrenia involving auditory, optical and mental hallucinations. Not paranoid schizophrenia by any means.[/font][/color]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]Harlequin, I realized moments after typing my post, that you probably had not read the entire thread. I had full intentions of coming back and editing my previous comments, unfortunatly I could not access this page. Although I have never talked with you directly, I have read enough of your posts that I should have instantly realized that you were not generalizing and probably had not viewed the whole thread. Therefore an off handed comment begat another.

I hink this will be my last post in this thread (unless something dramatic happens), I've already blundered two posts, I have no intetntion of goofing up a third.[/color]

[Dan L]

I don't think suicide is really ever a justifiable thing to do. Justification of something that serious infers some intelligent thought on the matter, and the way I see it, it's not possible to come to the conclusion that suicide is good based on rational thought..

Suicide is generally an act on emotion- that emotion generally being depression. And depression, like anger, is one of the emotions it's best not to base your actions on..

so no

[Booboo]

In my opinion, there is nothing that bad that you have to kill yourself over. My parents just keep pounding that in my head. I have heard of teenage girls killing themsevles because they were to afriad to tell their parents that they were pregnant. Or the times when two younge boys killed themselves over bad grades. I just don't think you can justify why you should kill yourself. I'm trying so hard to keep a good friend of mine from OD ing. She is trying to kill herself because poeple make fun of for stupit reasons like singing well and being a smart girl. The only thing keeping her from doing it is me(telling her not to), her boyfriend, and Will (her best friend).

[Wintermute]

Killing yourself because you daren't tell your parents you're pregnant is worse than suicide, it's homicide too.

[Booboo]

You have a piont there Wintermute. But since the person who committed suicide is already dead they cant be charged with homicide so it really doesn't matter. Yet no matter what situation your in you can't just solve it by killing yourself, it's not worth it.

[Wintermute]

It really doesn't matter?

It certainly does. The baby has been killed, whether or not anyone can be tried for it.

[GinnyLyn]

And that is just plain unfair for the baby. This would be one of the strongest examples of hurting others with taking your own life. If you are really in the mind of self-destructing, then just have the strength enough to keep anyone else from following.

Recently, I read a good webcomic about a goofy, happy go lucky guy who met this depressive gal, with the stark and dark view on life. It eventually got to the point where she felt he was being "dragged into her thought vortex"--he was drinking to escape the truths she had exposed him to. Pretty much, he was becoming as self destructive as she was.
This leads to a party one night, where he walks out and drives off, stinking drunk. She chases after him, and, in an effort to keep him from getting into a wreck with this massive truck, she swerves so that it hits her instead. Kills her instantly. Would've been him if she hadn't.

Whaddaya think? Was that suicide on her part? Was it justifiable?

Being pregnant and committing suicide--I definitely do not see any reason that I could accept that as ok. I really can't. But that's my opinion.

[KittyLynn]

[COLOR=deeppink]When your hamster dies...::bawls::[/COLOR]

[Wintermute]

I hope that last wasn't a fully serious one, although I know your very upset about that.

GinnyLyn, have you got an URL for that webcomic?

[KittyLynn]

[COLOR=deeppink]Yes I am. But it makes me feel like I'm going to die. I wouldn't but I think some people would consider it.[/COLOR]

[Wintermute]

Well, that's good to hear at least.

[Guest Gamemaster7654]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrist cutter [/i]
[B]I'm wondering, do you think killing one's self is ever justified? Is there ever a good enough reason for doing it? Or is it always a "selfish and thoughtless" act? [/B][/QUOTE]

I think your kind of depressed if you ask this question...

And it is a selfish and thoughtless act

[Sara]

[size=1]Do you have any thought behind that, or are you just spouting cliches?[/size]