Writing Playboy

[Mitch]

[color=black][size=1][font=rockwell] [i]Seen[/i] is the key word in that sentence, my dear black newt.[/color][/size][/font]

[Lady Macaiodh]

[color=darkblue]I don't personally see a problem with it. Hell, I look at Playboy all the time. I don't read the articles, either, though the comics are cool.

I don't like the magazines that show all the BJs & close-up penetration, though. & forget the movies... blech. I've seen too many disgusting things on those, & they always happen when you least expect it, too. But I'm not morally against looking at or watching hard core porn, nor would I judge someone for doing so, unless it's snuff or something.

Posing for porn... I'm not gonna judge unless they're actually doing a sex act. That's pretty skanky. I think sex is more sacred than that. I might be friends with a porn star if I met one, but I'd have trouble respecting them as a person.

So there are all these gray areas. I probably wouldn't pose for Playboy. Too embarrassing. But for those who have the guts, go for it.[/color]

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]Also I'd like to know TN's logic for putting it in this forum?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Woah woah woah.... It wasn't I who moved it into this forum.... Thats a big negative.

[quote][b]Excuse me, I'm going to download all the pornography I can get because the 'majority' of male otaku's thinks its cool.

EDIT: Am I the only one that doesn't chop and change his morals? Actually, don't answer that, I do not want to know.[/quote][/b]

No one ever said you HAD to look at pornography, i was just stating simple little facts about it. It's not this evil thing you all make it out to be. It's just pictures. Hell, 99% of the people who look at pornography will never ever have such a good looking man or woman in their life. Thats why it's all fantasy, and surely fantasy cannot be a sin. Thats like telling me to stop breathing. God gave us free will, yet we cannot fantasize? Please. If you don't want to look at porn then don't, like I said, kudos to you. But alot of people do, probably, and most likely, including your very own parents and high religious figures. Why do you think all those catholics were having sex with altar boys? Cause they had the right of fantasy taken away from them. ALl animals, including humans because we're animals too, have a natural sex-drive. To take that away from someone, well... you saw what happen.

I never changed or chopped my morals. My morals do not say "Don't look at Pornography, it's evil and bad. And look!, people having sex; a normal, human behaivor just on film for me to watch."

[Zanarkand Abes]

I am not claiming to be perfect, I mean I have looked at Playboy like pics once and a while, but I disaprove of it. And there is a difference between porn and nudity, and Playboy is porn. Soft or hard, there is nothing just nudity about it. The concept is to look at the woman's body in a sexual manner, not to admire the human body. And it is okay to acknowledge a pretty woman, but you cannot pursue into it lustfully.

[Desbreko]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mitch [/i]
[B][color=black][size=1][font=rockwell] So you're saying that the ten commandments were written to show us we're "far from perfect"?

So tell me this, isn't that just contradictory? It still condemns you. And people are prejudiced against one another for what the bible says. Heck, just for someone who doesn't believe in God, they get a lot of negativity about it. I know it's like that the other way around, too. But seriously, everyone knows they're far from perfect, unless they're some stuck-up little moron.

I don't think what you said actually really means anything. If that's the point of the entire bible, the entire commandments, other than god, then what's the point of it? I don't know. Religion is just so pointless to me, especially of late.

Sorry if I offended you or anything, but this stuff has to be said.[/color][/size][/font] [/B][/QUOTE]
[color=indigo]The point of the Ten Commandments is not just to show us that we're not perfect, though that is one of their purposes. They also just plain tell us what isn't right, so that we can at least try to what [i]is[/i] right.

And the point of the Bible, the main point, isn't to tell us what's right and wrong, isn't to just tell us there is a god. . . . It's about what that God did for us. That is, he saved us from everything wrong we've ever done. The Ten Commandments show us that we've all gone wrong, they show us that rather plainly. The reason for that is so that we'll admit that yes, we've gone wrong. If you admit that and believe in Jesus, and that he died for all of us, then he'll save you. That, my friend, is the point of the Bible. Not to condemn people, but to save them. If you just read bits and pieces of it (like just reading about the Ten Commandments and nothing else), yes, it may sound as though it's just condemning people, but if you read more (the New Testament, mainly), you can see more of what it's actually about.

And no, I'm not preaching to anyone, I'm just explaining. That being, I'm not going to argue with anyone about this. If you don't care, fine, I just don't like it when people discount the Bible when they don't even really know what it's about.

Right, now that that's over, back to the main subject at hand. . . . Personally, I think pornography is wrong. And not just because the Bible says lusting after someone is wrong, either, my conscience also tells me it's wrong.

And as for the thing about the difference between porn and art, well, I think the difference comes from the person painting the picture, taking the photo, whatever. If the person intends the thing to be art, then it's art. If the person is just doing it to make money, or if they actually intend for it be looked at in a lustful way, then it's porn.

That's not the end of it, though. There's also another side to it; the side of the viewer. Say someone is looking at Michelangelo's David statue, as mentioned earlier in this thread, and they get aroused. The problem there is with the viewer, not the creator. Just because someone gets aroused by something doesn't make it porn. Same goes for the other way: Just because someone looks at a picture of a naked woman and thinks of it as art doesn't make it art. As I said before, I think it lies with the motives of the creator.[/color]

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]Deus I know it sounds weird, but yes I've had several Christians put up good reasons why certain areas of computing is against god's word therefore law. Now at the time I was so shocked at their reasoning I didn't get a chance to laugh, but it has happened.
Not only to me but a lot of people...[/B][/QUOTE]

It doesn't sound weird at all.. there are a load of Christians who just use the Bible as a means to justify their ends. The point I was making isn't whether people can make a biblical point of view out of it, but whether there [i]is[/i] one or not. And when it comes to computers, the only real quote that you can follow is that somewhere (I forget where) it says we should obey the laws of the land that you are in, whatever they may be at the time.

So yeah.. I didn't mean to say that no-one uses the Bible to say that computers are against God, but that they can't very easily justify that with scripture.

[quote][i]Originally posted by Mitch[/i]
[b]So you're saying that the ten commandments were written to show us we're "far from perfect"?.[/b][/quote]

No.. the Ten Commandments were written for us to follow (or to try our best). However, no-one can follow them perfectly for their whole life. I mean, sure.. you can go your whole life in most cases without killing, but very few can go their whole life without lying or wanting to own someone else's possessions.

Now, the point of the commandments is not to say that you're imperfect. Think of it this way.. There's a tribe in isolation somewhere, which western civilisations found fairly recently (I dunno when, but probably some time last century). In that ribe, there is no concept of stealing, because they're never been told not to do it. Now, that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It does.. the thing is they don't consider it to be wrong. The ten commandments were brought in not only to show us where we are living wrong now (and hence that we are far from perfect), but also to show us how we can live properly. Now again, no-one can follow them perfectly.. but the point is that they give you some idea where you should be heading.

[quote][i]Originally posted by Mitch[/i]
[b]So tell me this, isn't that just contradictory? It still condemns you. And people are prejudiced against one another for what the bible says. Heck, just for someone who doesn't believe in God, they get a lot of negativity about it. I know it's like that the other way around, too. But seriously, everyone knows they're far from perfect, unless they're some stuck-up little moron.[/b][/quote]

It's not condemnation at all, it's conviction. There's a huge difference. Think of it this way-

In the court system, the judge must do two things to the person on trial:

1- Proclaim them "Guilty" or "Not Guilty"

2- If found guilty, the sentence must be passed

Now, the first step is the conviction here. We're all guilty of some thing or another, which can pretty much be summed up as "falling short of perfection". So we all get convicted by God at some point or another.

Now, condemnation is the sentence, which in the Bible's case is being sent to hell. The more condemning type of Christians go around telling everyone they're going to hell for everything they've done wrong, but that's not the point of the bible at all.

Now, if any one person were to have to face up to the consequences of his or her sin in this life, according to the Bible they would be going to hell (as no-one is sinless), but God chooses to forgive us instead if we accept that we are far from perfect, strive to become closer [i]to[/i] perfect, and ask his forgiveness.

In short:

- We're all [i]convicted[/i] of sin

- If not for grace, we would be [i]condemned[/i] to hell

but

- We can accept forgiveness

and that forgiveness can come at any point in your life. You don't need to "repent of sin and start a new life before you reach the age of 30, because otherwise you won't be able to do enough good to pay for your salvation" or anything like that. Salvation has no cost at all, and you don't need to do anything good to obtain it. However, the ten commandments and the teachings of Jesus offer us guidelines on how to live better.

[quote][i]Originally posted by Mitch[/i]
[b]I don't think what you said actually really means anything. If that's the point of the entire bible, the entire commandments, other than god, then what's the point of it? I don't know. Religion is just so pointless to me, especially of late. [/b][/quote]

Like Desbreko said, the point is not just to say what's good and bad, and that God is there, but also to document what he's done.

Much as few would like to admit it, the Bible is not merely a collection of nice poetry and metaphorical journeys. It's written as an actual history of what God did for his people as well.

[Mnemolth]

Its inevitable that a thread on pornography would end up being a debate about the Bible. As if Christianity was the only religion in the world. And as if religion was humanity's only source of morality and ethics.

The point I would make about the Bible is that it is a written text, and as such, its meaning is entirely up to interpretation. Why? Because English, unlike say a mathematical language, is often ambiguous and inexact. To understand the Bible, you need to make sense of it. And that can only be done through interpretation.

And as for the idea that we are saved by the simple act of accepting forgiveness, I find that rather unsatisfactory. Does that mean I can rape and pillage and murder, and commit all manner of vices repeatedly, and that I need not concern myself, for I shall ascend to Heaven, and be in God's grace, as long as I ask for forgiveness on my death bed?? That doesn't make any sense to me.

It seems suspiciously similar to the 'Indulgences' handed out by Pope Leo X that Martin Luther was just a tad bit unhappy with. As a personal opinion, I happen to think that a man is defined by his beliefs as expressed through his actions.

As for the notion that that which is pornographic is that which is intended to arouse whereas art pertains to and is intended for more 'cerebral' concerns, I find that just a little bit silly. There are plenty of pieces of what is considered 'art' that is erotic, and intended to be so. There is no such thing as 'porn' [i]per se[/i].

One man's garbage is another man's treasure. One man's art is another man's porn. The point is that pornography is not a static, ageless definition. It changes from culture to culture, and even from time to time within the same culture.

So Playboy, to most people in Western liberal democracies today, is not considered porn. But travel back a hundred or so years into the Victorian era, and you'll have a very diferrent reaction from people.

Pornography is a fluid concept. It is dependent upon what is socially acceptable. It has no meaning by itself.

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i]
[B]Its inevitable that a thread on pornography would end up being a debate about the Bible. As if Christianity was the only religion in the world. And as if religion was humanity's only source of morality and ethics.[/B][/QUOTE]

hey.. if anyone wants to bring in what the Koran or another text says, then fine, but they didn't, so it didn't enter the discussion. For the simple reason that I'm not qualified (ie. I don't know enough about it) to comment on that.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i]
[B]And as for the idea that we are saved by the simple act of accepting forgiveness, I find that rather unsatisfactory. Does that mean I can rape and pillage and murder, and commit all manner of vices repeatedly, and that I need not concern myself, for I shall ascend to Heaven, and be in God's grace, as long as I ask for forgiveness on my death bed?? That doesn't make any sense to me.[/B][/QUOTE]

that kind of "insurance policy" kind of forgiveness I don't look very kindly upon. However yes.. if that person asked for forgiveness then yeah, they could be taken into heaven.

[b]However[/b]

You are completely forgetting the fact that if the Bible is true, then God can see into our minds. If the act of asking for forgiveness isn't done in a repentful way, in the mind, then it's not really repenting. In other words, you wouldn't just ask for forgiveness for what you did, but also for presuming upon God's grace, AND you'd have to mean it (i.e. if you're doing it just to get into heaven, and not because you recognise the [i]true[/i] error of your ways, it just won't work).

(Maybe I forgot to mention in the last post that you need to repent in order to be forgiven.. and it's not as simple as just saying it, it has to be meant)

I in no way condone mass-murder or any other large-scale sin, of any kind. However, I am firm in my belief that they can all be forgiven, [i]if[/i] the repentance is truly meant. And if you plan from the start to sin on a large scale and then repent to get into heaven, then it's NOT truly meant, unless you somehow truly change before then.

[Mitch]

[color=black][size=1][font=rockwell] So what, if I don't believe in God, then I'm going to go to Hell? I've never believed in heaven anyways, hm.

As for you point Deus, it is valid, and I guess condemning is going a little too far for a word. Fine. We have a conviction, then. It's still close in par.

Exactly what Mnem said. If the bible [i]is[/i] actually the word of God, then there's so many different ways that it can be in one's mind. So I doubt that I'll ever believe in bible for the sole fact that it's written like it is.[/color][/size][/font]

[BlackDragon465]

the bible.. pfff.

If they want to I don't find it wrong. If they don't and are force I don't find that right but other wise is fine. I believe humans make their own decisions and if there decision is to go to a porn mag then so be it.

[Guest cloricus]

Deus watch it, your last two posts have been solidly on the bible and have had [i]nothing[/i] to do with the topic. If you want to use the bible in your opinion in twine it in your view.

Can we please keep this at a distance from religion? Its fine to go into it but turning it into the usual arguments would be a shame since this topic hasn't run its course yet...

A question would be what does the general public in the country where you live think about porn?

In Australia it's just some thing that's there and it's your right as a free person to access it or not. Not really frowned upon but that changes depending on what culture you?re from and how you were bought up. (Imo)

Eps - Dhabnofe!

[Yu Yu Hakusho!]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Heaven's Cloud [/i]
[B][color=indigo]I don't know what is worse, being a man and not being able to control yourself, or being a female and not knowing that "David" was sculpted by Michelangelo after watching a movie on it...seems that your attention span is no better then those boys commenting on Davids "ahem" equipment....:p[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, [i]sorry...[/i]
:p
It's been a while since I watched it...all I know is that it was by someone famous and Italian....

But hell, I'm just a girl. What the hell do I know?

[liamc2]

[b]TN[/b]: *sigh*

There's no way I'm going to win this.

My battle is lost before I've even put the pieces on the board.

But before I back down and return to my horribly narrow-minded world, let me just say something,

Your morals really are what you are.

When I saw pornography ( bloody 'Liam, about school' junk emails --; ) it turned my stomach, literally, I felt foul for the rest of the day.

However, you say if you see pornography and justify it as fine because it's not enacting sex, great for you, you've just received a Bachelor of [b]Justification[/b].

I hope you live to be a great spin doctor.

~Adieu

[Lady Macaiodh]

[color=darkblue]Now this is odd. There are countries where the women walk around topless all day, yet that's obviously not porn. The guys there don't care because they're used to it. The point is, since when did a naked body automatically become perverted? Since someone took a picture of it? It all depends on your perception. I, for one, don't get horny looking at Playboy or Playgirl (don't really look at Playgirl, though).

So here we have a thread full of people jumping all over each other & talking about the Bible. Just let people have an opinion, for godssake, without turning it into some kind of religious debate? Because -- and let's face it -- if someone doesn't agree with the Bible [i]you're not going to change their mind by preaching at them![/i] You're just going to piss them off. Great way to win souls for the kingdom.[/color]

[Yu Yu Hakusho!]

[color=deeppink][b]That's the thing about Americans:
We love sex and bad things like that, but we are too 'modest,' so to speak, to express it freely like countries like France, Germany, Italy, and many other places around the world.
We're so bad and yet we're too afraid to show it.
I mean, look at some American teens. They think that porn and sex is the best thing in the world and they get all crazy about it.
Actually, every teenager is like that, but here in America, we are very different than the way teens in France might feel about it.
I don't know what the problem is with some people here.
There's just so much more to it. I don't even know where to start.[/b][/color]

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by liamc2 [/i]
[B][b]TN[/b]: *sigh*

There's no way I'm going to win this.

My battle is lost before I've even put the pieces on the board.

But before I back down and return to my horribly narrow-minded world, let me just say something,

Your morals really are what you are.

When I saw pornography ( bloody 'Liam, about school' junk emails --; ) it turned my stomach, literally, I felt foul for the rest of the day.

However, you say if you see pornography and justify it as fine because it's not enacting sex, great for you, you've just received a Bachelor of [b]Justification[/b].

I hope you live to be a great spin doctor.

~Adieu [/B][/QUOTE]

Whats to win?

I'm just saying that alot of people look at pornography, and that it's not some terrible horrific thing some of you make it out to be, if it was, no one would watch it. I wasn't asking you to change your morals, and I certainly never changed mine. Just because I think Pornography is something that isn't evil doesn't make me a bad person.

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Macaiodh [/i]
[B][color=darkblue]if someone doesn't agree with the Bible [i]you're not going to change their mind by preaching at them![/i] You're just going to piss them off. Great way to win souls for the kingdom.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

OK.. maybe I gave out the wrong impression.. I didn't want to say that the Bible is definitively, unmistably correct, but rather I was trying to point out [i]why[/i] it was opposed to it, when so many people believe it not to be. I didn't ever mean to say "this is what you have to do" but "this is what the Bible says" whether or not you want to follow it is up to you.

[quote][i]originally posted by cloricus[/i]
[b]Deus watch it, your last two posts have been solidly on the bible and have had nothing to do with the topic. If you want to use the bible in your opinion in twine it in your view.[/b][/quote]

Don't worry, I've already decided to finish with with that bit.. if anyone else responds I'll PM them from now (and I already have done) rather than run the risk of getting the thread closed.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Macaiodh [/i]
[B][color=darkblue]Now this is odd. There are countries where the women walk around topless all day, yet that's obviously not porn. The guys there don't care because they're used to it. The point is, since when did a naked body automatically become perverted? Since someone took a picture of it? [/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

It's not the naked body itself which is perverted, but the lustful attitude towards it. If anyone buys this stuff for anything other than their own sexual drive (and honestly, rather than just as an excuse) then I see no problem with that. And if any material is published without the intention to appeal to people's urges, then I see no problem with that either, even if a few pervert this original intention.

In other words, it's not the display of the naked body, or the body itself, that I see as a bad thing, but the lustful attitude that many people have towards them.

[GinnyLyn]

(As far as the religious aspect of this thread, if you all would quit yammering and rehashing about it, maybe every other thread would quit turning INTO a religion flame. GAW! (Des and Deus covered everything I wanted to say back on the 2nd page, so I'm not going to stir up any more idioticy.))

Desbreko, actually, covered the whole porn topic quite well. It's not in the creator alone, nor is it in the viewer alone. Things get miscontrued (porn and religion both). You don't have to buy the magazine nor view the site, though I do not approve of false links leading to pornography (when I was younger, I did a search on Kirby AllStar, clicked on one link--and lo! was exposed to the world on online pornography. THAT was a bad day.).

I don't approve of people doing it for a job, I don't approve of people viewing it for a habit. I believe sex is a sacred act between two people alone, and I'd mightily thwack my proverbial boyfriend and instantly dump him if I caught him looking at such stuff. Sorry, but I was raised by gentlemen and ladies.

(And before y'all start flipping out [i]yet again[/i] as you all are so prone to doing, may I point out that there's freedom of speech and freedom of thought going on here? I've seen just as many people in this thread trying to shove the fact that the Bible's screwed on the religious people here as well as religious people "shoving" the Bible on everyone. Same concept of porn here--don't like? Don't have to read. I'm sorry you're not willing to be open minded and promote the common grounds concept that James and Adam have worked so hard to have at these boards.

Besides, you knew talking about porn was opening a can of worms, no? ;))

[Mnemolth]

With respect to the argument about lust. I happen to think lust is a good thing. :)

Purely from a psychological and a sociological perspective, I think the danger more often than not comes from the repression of our primal desires and not the expression of those desires. Lust is not an 'evil' thing. Its just a thing. As long as we control our desires we're in no danger of hurting or harming anyone. The trouble with repression is that its not about control. Its about denial. And to deny one's humanity is a terribly dangerous thing to do.

So Playboy is fine. That's not to say that we can go overboard and indulge in many of the hardcore stuff out there. Remember, we have to control our desires and not let our desires control us. A lot of that stuff is probably not OK. But its up to each person and how they use the material. If you're using it as a substitute for 'something else' (love, affection, anger, frustration, blah blah), then that's a bad sign. If you find yourself looking at it constantly, then that's another bad sign. Addiction is always bad.

The problem with repression, denial and guilt is that its not healthy. Its all negative. It throws the baby out with the bath water.

It asks us to do the impossible, and then punishes us for not achieving it. Acknowledging our desires, embracing them and understanding them seems to me a better course to follow. Its positive and sets boundaries we can abide by. We feel good and we can do it.

As for the other stuff,

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Deus Ex Machina [/i]
[B]I didn't ever mean to say "this is what you have to do" but "this is what the Bible says" whether or not you want to follow it is up to you...[/B][/QUOTE]

Heheh. :D

This is the essence of the problem as I see it. The premise here is that the Bible only says one thing. This is a very common misconception. It does not. At least not to a common reading of it. In fact, if the Bible were a textbook and you were asked to write an essay about the messages contained therein, many people will come up with many different answers.

We color the Bible by our own misconceptions and prejudices, or to put it another way, the Bible means different things to different people.

Now, some of you will already start shaking your heads at this point and say with adamant conviction that this is untrue, that only those who have departed from the path laid out to us by The Bible have misconstrued it, and twisted it for their own disingenuous purposes.

Perhaps.

But how do you know the path [i]you[/i] follow is not a false one?

You don't. Not unless you can claim to be divine and know 'the truth' by way of some personal 'revelation'. Most of us are not so blessed. Most of us follow one interpretation or another, handed down by one who we believe is so blessed. If you're a Mormon, then that person is likely to be Joseph Smith, if you're a Catholic, that's the Pope, and so on.

People have waged war and died for their interpretations of the Bible. So before anyone starts saying the Bible says this or that, they might want to bear this in mind. Another thing they might want to do is read the freaking thing from cover to cover. And not just one version but several versions (I'm not directing this at anyone, I'm directing it at [i]everyone[/i]! :D).

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i]
[B]Heheh. :D

This is the essence of the problem as I see it. The premise here is that the Bible only says one thing. This is a very common misconception. It does not. At least not to a common reading of it. In fact, if the Bible were a textbook and you were asked to write an essay about the messages contained therein, many people will come up with many different answers.

We color the Bible by our own misconceptions and prejudices, or to put it another way, the Bible means different things to different people.

Now, some of you will already start shaking your heads at this point and say with adamant conviction that this is untrue, that only those who have departed from the path laid out to us by The Bible have misconstrued it, and twisted it for their own disingenuous purposes.

Perhaps.

But how do you know the path [i]you[/i] follow is not a false one?

You don't. Not unless you can claim to be divine and know 'the truth' by way of some personal 'revelation'. Most of us are not so blessed. Most of us follow one interpretation or another, handed down by one who we believe is so blessed. If you're a Mormon, then that person is likely to be Joseph Smith, if you're a Catholic, that's the Pope, and so on.

People have waged war and died for their interpretations of the Bible. So before anyone starts saying the Bible says this or that, they might want to bear this in mind. Another thing they might want to do is read the freaking thing from cover to cover. And not just one version but several versions (I'm not directing this at anyone, I'm directing it at [i]everyone[/i]! :D). [/B][/QUOTE]

1- I don't [i]know[/i] that my path is the true one, I simply believe it. I never even claimed to know such a thing.

2- Mormons claim that their followers can become Gods of their own world. And much as the Catholics aren't as bad as some cults (not inferring that they are one, by the way), they have some dodgy ideals too, which I won't go into here. The point is that the idea of becoming a God, and even that God was once a man (also a mormon belief) actually goes against biblical ideals anyway, which is why they tend to follow the book of Mormon.

I personally, as well as a lot of people I know, don't follow the tradition or viewpoint laid down by someone before me, with the exception of the version of the Bible that I prefer to read. The reasoning behind that is that men get things wrong, and when you begin following in men's footsteps, you get things wrong too.

3- Why don't you actually stick to the point at hand. Yes, the Bible [i]can[/i] be viewed in many ways, but I feel it is very clear about [i]this issue[/i]. So rather than simply giving me a general statement that "the Bible can be interpreted many ways", which doensn't really transcend the arguments of [i]anyone[/i] in this thread, why don't you actually give me an example of where the Bible can be seen to [i]condone[/i] this behaviour rather than condemn it. Seeing as how you are encouraging people to read it.

After all, it's one thing just saying that the bible has many interpretations, it's another thing proving it (On the issue of pornography and lust, seeing as that's what the thread's about.)


So please, if you're going to make general statements about why the Bible can't be trusted

- don't bother. Firstly, it's not going to convince me unless you can give examples, and also it's not going to radically change those who don't believe the Bible anyway

- PM me rather than keeping this argument going when I tried to end it.




And with regards to your comments about lust, I agree that repression is always a bad thing, but I don't believe that "control" constitues getting on with it, but not excessively. Rather, I believe any form of sexual activity should be reserved for the proper setting, i.e. between married people, as illustrated by this verse:

[b]To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion.[/b]

(1 corinthians 7:8-9)

In other words, if you can't control your urges, it's better to be married than to let those urges out in other ways.

Now, please don't respond by discrediting what I just said on the grounds that I just quoted the Bible. that's what I do, and you can't change that. I just expressed an opinion, and rather than arguing with the source, try arguing for or against the opinion.

[Kaola Su]

I am a Christian, and a woman at that, but I don't believe that it goes too against the bible. The bible does discuss Adam and Eve's relationship, though yes, it does say not to commit adultry. I know several of you have said the same things that I will say, but the fact of the matter is, it is still an opinion and the person who started this thread asked for opinions. Well, to continue, everyone will look at a woman sexually. Everyone does it or will do it, that's just human nature. I understand if people try not to live like that, but people aren't perfect and all of us will sin in our lives, not that you should go sinning up a storm, but lying, ya know, almost everyone had done it too!
Well, my opinion, being a female, is that Playboy is a very tasteful magazine. I would not like to look at Penthouse though because I do believe that ridicules women. But as for Playboy, I am not an addict, but I do look at it often. Nudity had always been a form of artistry to me. It is the natural human body, the skin we were born into! As long as it isn't nasty spread-shots of corse, that is very distasteful. I would definately be in Playboy if I was offered. I want to get breat implants also, but yes that does contradict what I said about the "natural" human body. But I believe if it isn't completely outrageous then it can still look natural. In conclusion, I do look at Playboy, not in an erotic way to, well, "get-off", but I think what Hugh Hefner has done is really expose the world to the art of nudity more than anyone else ever has.

[Shinkoru]

Well. Good crtonrasival issue here, I'm an artist, have been in gifted art since grade 4. Playboy, I see no real problem with it, if you look at it or read it or do whatever Is none of my concern and should stay that way. the problem is its gotten to big, people flaunt it and its the topic of conversations or threds like this. If people would respect their own privacy then I think no one would have problems bcause it wouldnt be everywhere. But nudity in art is nudity, not pornography which is totally diffrent, art express the human body as a elegant and gracefull part of nature, to look at and admire not to lust for and want. Playboy and all the other porno mags WANT guys to buy it to look at and think thngs from, thats its porpouse, not to show off the human body as something nice and wonderful but as something to sleep with and be "nuaghty" with. Well theres my opinion. -Danni