Gaming Recent Final Fantasy changes (FFX, etc.)

[Erika]

Instead of looking at a FF quiz thread, I decided on a complaint/comment thread about the changes since FFIX. I think the PS1 FFs were the greatest and most memorable. But I've played FFX since last summer (when I first got my PS2) and I was a bit angry with the changes. :flaming:

I read in an interview with a few from the team that they purposely eliminated popular elements from previous FF titles in FFX. That made me angrier. They got rid of World Maps, alterable text and windows, and other FF faves that I thought gave it a FF 'feel' to them. I mean, throughout the whole FFX game, no one mentioned Tidus's name! I understand why, of course, but I think it's stupid that they gave it boring subtitles. I think FF7 is a better game than FFX and possibly FFXI, if they decide to actually put it on the console.

They shouldn't ruin the FF tradition. I think console RPGs are the best out there, and FFX is a bad example of FF. It's almost nothing compared to the others.

:cussing:

[Braidless Baka]

I dunno, I think a lot of what they've done is an improvement. I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but the world maps where a bad thing for me, because I kept getting lost on them. Then I'd meet too many monsters and die. So the world map, by me, isn't missed. I prefer having my path dictated without too much hassle, and there's still lots of oppertunities to level up along the way.

I also like the fact that it's very turn-based in FFX, I mean, now it's more strategic. It's not a matter of "Oh dear Lord it's gonna kill me - hit a button!! -- Oops wrong button... [insert random swearing and cussing here]" - it's more a case of "Hmm... I need to do something so it doesn't kill me, but I can go through every possible option before I decide to do it. -- Ah ha! Gotcha ya little buggar!! [insert random happy dance here]"

I prefer the voices over just subtitles. A) I don't have to strain my eyes so hard to read subtitles and miss them. B) It works better with the new CG graphics. It would be severely wierd if they just had the subtitles.

Heh, FFX got me into the world of Final Fantasy though, so I'd be biased no matter what. The whole thing is just so... gorgous... If I [i]had[/i] to pick a fault with the game, I could only pick one. They're way too confident with their ingame graphics. There are certain scenes which just [i]deserved[/i] proper CG and didn't get it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dark_serena [/i]
[B]I read in an interview with a few from the team that they purposely eliminated popular elements from previous FF titles in FFX.[/B][/QUOTE]

Was that on the internet or what? I wanna have a read of that if you remember where it is. That's not something they would do, they want the game to sell, not suck. And they're well practised at their trade by now to know the difference between sellable and sucky. And even if they did get rid of popular elements, they wouldn't admit it in an interview, I don't think.

[Erika]

Oh ho-HO!!! They DID alright!! :mad:

I thought the World Maps were fun to meander about in. Let's just say I can't stand linear RPGs. World Maps (like Star Ocean: 2nd Story, Xenogears, pre-FFX FFs, Chrono Cross, etc.)...those games, most likely for that reason alone, will remain on my favorites list. I mean, in real life, if your on an adventure, you don't exactly follow a straight line and can't exactly look around, or check out mysterious caverns nobody in the game has ever mentioned (FFVII). That would be boring. Free-wandering World Maps, to me, have always been a highlight in SNES and PS1 RPGs. From the music to uncharted areas in which no one has any idea what it is or why, I think it's something a lot of RPGs should keep. They could make it different if they want, but they should at least avoid linear travelling.

And the exclusive interview was from my FFX Brady Games player's guide I got about a few months ago. They had pics of them, too.

If I have the time, I can scan the first or 2nd pages for you to see, and e-mailthem to you if you want. Y'know, proof and other b.s.

And as for the battle-system. I love the battle system. But the past was fun too, cuz it was more challenging. And for the ppl that have a 'hard time' figuring out what to do in past FF battles: just pause the game and THINK. Either that or set it to 'Wait' and get into a menu while fighting.

I still miss it all.:confused:

[Guest Zeh]

[size=1]FFT had a world map, but it was quite linear. Still my all time favorite Final Fantasy.

If they kept everything the same, they couldn't call themselves "Squaresoft". They're an ever changing company, and if you don't like it, well, you're out of luck. How many of the FF's have been the exact same? Each new game has it's new up's and down's.

FFX was one of the best FF games created, it had a solid story, gameplay was good, characters were wonderful, even the battle system was awesome... i mean, world map? Who cares! I still explored the world... think of Omega Dungeon and stuff...

They managed without the world map fine. I didn't even really notice there wasn't one. You're just stuck up in the old school world, there's nothing wrong with that, but you'll never find any good games now. [/size]

[GinnyLyn]

We shall not talk of my Auron's game like that.

I was a bit dismayed at no world map either at first, but by the time that started to become a problem, voila! the airship was under my control and it was just a matter of hopping to wherever I wanted to go.
Yes, I understand the "feel" part about wandering the world map, but they had to shut off certain areas because of certain parts of the story line. To me, it made just as much sense as running through Macalania woods to reach Guadosalam on the other side as it did to move from the pixel pic of the forest to the pixel pic of the city. The only thing you really lost was the (IMO) awful, shrinked pixel images of the World Map.

As far as the voices go, that was a welcome change. I mean, c'mon, text is still there for you to read it if you choose, but for me, I am glad they stuck the voices in. It helped me to better understand the character's thoughts and motivations at that point in time. You would not believe how many times I misinterpretted something because I (incorrectly) thought the character meant it a certain way.
Frankly, I died of happiness when they were talking all through the game. (The lipsync coulda used more work.)

The music was good, the art was fabulous, the characters could have been developed a little more, but on the whole, how can you possibly say this was a bad game?

(I have more to say, but I need to get to work.)

[Guest Zeh]

[size=1]Ohh, Ginny you also have the Brady's player guide, don't ya? Can you confirm that the interview's in there?[/size]

[Braidless Baka]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dark_serena [/i]
[B]I can't stand linear RPGs. World Maps (like Star Ocean: 2nd Story, Xenogears, pre-FFX FFs, Chrono Cross, etc.)...those games, most likely for that reason alone, will remain on my favorites list.[/B][/QUOTE]

Then.... umm... "for that reason alone"? *pauses* No, I can't understand that... Why would you ONLY like a game because it has a world map? Surely there are other reasons you like the games you like? Characters, graphics, or [i]plot[/i] maybe? And, like Ginny said before, the areas in FFX are like the world maps, huge and roaming expanses, but less pixelly. No, I certainly don't miss the world maps... But if you do, I won't argue the point.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dark_serena [/i]
[B]And for the ppl that have a 'hard time' figuring out what to do in past FF battles: just pause the game and THINK.[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, that would be me... And the first thought into my mind isn't to pause, but to hurry up and DO something. I like that it's speed of the character, not speed of the player, that seems to matter in FFX. I'm not the quickest finger in the West when it comes to PS games, so I find that a welcome idea.

I'm not dissing the other games, far from it, I'm a fan of FF sure enough. I just don't really think FFX is as bad as you make it out to be. Honest I don't...

[User Name]

I din't like it. Ten is even worse than nine!

(let's not say things we can't take back . . .)

Seriously though, the loss of the world map was a bit of a downer and that little Metal Gear Solid-esq map in the corner really took away from a lot of the exploration during the game.

I didn't really like Tidus - his character was irritating, and it bothered me that he had almost no feelings about being taken from his home to a strange new world, 1000 years in the future. I mean, if that were you, wouldn't you show some sort of emotion?

Otherwise, it was really, really, really good (if not a tad bland).
But I was expecting a lot more from the first FF game on the PS2. A LOT more!

[Semjaza]

Gah... FF has changed very little over it's history (I don't include the spinoffs... FFT is a weak version of various Quest tactics games anyway). I welcome any changes to the main series, as long as they aren't severely drastic. People bring up the ATB system and all that, but even that really hasn't affected battles in the end.

I never understood the complaining behind not saying Tidus' name. Aren't you allowed to name him whatever you want to? So if I named him "Butthead," it would get confusing when everyone else called him Tidus still. Was a smart decision I think.

I don't like voices in a good deal of games. I read far faster than they speak, and it just gets aggrivating after a while. Thank god you can skip all of them. There have been voices in PC RPG games since who knows how long ago, and I've always felt the same about that.

[conpiracymonki]

[b][size=1]
If you don't change what you make, then you'll just end up with the same regurgitated sick that everyone'll get bored of too quickly.

I mean, out of all the games I've played (and they're not that many, lol) I prefer the materia system by far. But that doesn't mean that I expect Square to keep that going on in every FF since just because it was well liked.

What's wrong with trying something a little more original for once?

[/b]*gets caught in 'original' moment, and disappears to go make another somewhat creative and second-rate banner*
o_O[/size]

[GinnyLyn]

As far as the interview goes, here's what it said:
[quote][i]Yoshinori Kitase: Producer[/i]
[b]Q:[/b] Where any specific ideas or concepts from previous FF installments (especially from FFVII, FFVIII, or FFIX) use in FFX?
[b]A:[/b] Nothing in particular. Actually, we followed a theme of avoiding popular elements from previous installments. The elimination of the world map and ATB system are examples of this...[/quote]

Gasp, shock, horror? Not really. Apparentally, you aren't reading the [i]whole[/i] question here. Yoshinori answered in reference to 7 through 9 alone, which means that the first 6 weren't even touched on.

dark_serena, I suggest you find some way to get ahold of the first six games (available in PS1 as Origins (1 and 2), Anthology (3 and 5), and Chronicles (4 plus ChronoTrigger (btw, I thought that ChronoCross stunk in comparison to Trigger, but that's a whole 'nother discussion entirely)). By condemning a game that was reaching for the roots again, you condemned about half of the series. You're taking FFX, and Final Fantasy itself, out of context.

(returning argument back to everyone in general)
Let's retrospect, shall we? Right now, I'm in the midst of FF, ya know, number 1, the one that started it all. And, gasp, shock, horror, no ATB. (Wanna know what ATB is? An easy way to tell is to go into a random battle. If you can leave your characters sitting there in the battle without either pausing or watching the monsters attack them, then you do not have ATB.) Somewhere about the time of ChronoTrigger, an option to turn ATB on or off was offered. So perhaps FFX was touching back on the way olden days. (To be honest, ATB-less battles rather threw me too, but with the battle menu at the right side of the screen, ya know, the turn menu, eliminated the whole point of ATB.)

I already covered the world map issue, which isn't as greivious a sin as it's being made out to be. Right now, I'm having a frelling time in FF figured out where the HADES I am! Sure, money and experience are great, but I'd like to back to the game itself sometime soon.

And, gasp shock horror again, [i]everything[/i] is linear. Some lines just have more lines running off them than others do. There are moments in every game where you [i]have[/i] to remain linear, no matter what. IE, when you were going stuck in ShinRa headquarters in FF7, [spoiler]after Sephiroth attacks and steals JENOVA[/spoiler]. You can't just suddenly decide you can leave and go chase Chocobos, nope; you've got a bloody trail to follow and a new member to find.

The biggest point that needs to be made here is how the Final Fantasy series works. In case you haven't noticed, every game is different from the last. Why? Keeps it interesting, as was pointed out already. And each different thing allows the programmers and producers to see what works with the public and what does not. (My personal accusation of greivious sin is the stupid card game known as Tetra Master.) Did you notice, from 7 to 10, how the Summon Monsters ability changed from game to game? In 7, they appear, attack, and disappear, their appearance hampered by how strong the Materia was; plus, any person could use them. In 8 (which, IMO, is the worst of the FF lot, NOT X), the S.M.s, I believe, would actually stay until killed. In 9, again, the monsters came, attacked, and flew off, this time controlled by certain people. In X, the return of the S.M.s as playable characters was used again.

We could spend all thread talking about the different magic systems, the equipping abilities, the items, and so on, but it all comes down to one point--FFs are different from each other. There is going to be stuff you like and stuff you hate. Whoopee. Right now, I have been playing another famous Gaming series, and found its most recent title lacking sorely because it copied too much of its previous titles.

For my final blabber, try to look at all this from a programmer's point of view. There's a limited amount of space and time they were allowed to work with, so experimentation had to be tempered with knowing what worked best for the players. Voicing, I think, was a nice gamble, though it ate a LOT of memory up. The graphics, too, were a wonderful touch (though I agree strongly with Braidless Baka, there are several scenes that should have been FMV'd and they weren't SPOILER[spoiler]Auron's sending[/spoiler]SPOILER). Graphics also take up lots of space. The ATB/no ATB I've already talked about (and personally, next time they should invest in an option to turn it on or off), as well as the world map. There's programming that goes into both, and most likely, Yoshinori didn't want to admit that they wanted to cut time and cost by getting FFX out as soon as possible (which is something LOTS of games are suffering from). First times on new systems will always have problems (FF7's awful character polygons, ergh!).

The point of an RPG is to tell a story with memorable characters. Sure, Tidus annoyed me, but he stayed true to character (User Name, I suggest you slog yourself back through the game--Tidus showed a lot more emotion than you thought you saw, but learned to mature and control himself as the knowledge revealed itself. That's characterization, my friend. That's the focus of an RPG). There's [i]plenty[/i] of FF characters that I think shoulda been dropped over a cliff into the sea with a rock tied around their neck (Yuffie, Squall, Aeris, Amarath, to name a few). But even these guys showed a bit of humanism to them. I thought it was a very nice touch to give character to the Aeons or some of them, in FFX.

You are all entitled to your opinion, but, with all opinion discussions, I need to point what seems to stand out in the arguments: emotion driven generalizations equal beauties that you never fully realized, never will fully realize. I know I [i]hated[/i] ChronoCross with a passion after I beat it the first time. It was years before I ever dared to play it again. But I am grateful I did--there are beauties in there that only ChronoCross could show.

So open your eyes and see the beauty. If I can do it, so can you. Give or take a few years. :p

And with that, I am (hopefully) done.

[Erika]

I couldn't agree w/all of you more. I do get a lot of Ginny's points, however.

BUT, I don't 'dwell' on the World Maps, and I'm not TOO horrified about it being eliminated in the progression of the 21st century,...I just thought it added a bit more depth to the game. And yes, I like every game in a series that's different, than the last.


But the battle system doesn't really bother me. I LOVE FFX in different ways than the other games. And, I, too, think that FF8 is stupid and boring. I mean, the the dialouge is grey the whole damn GAME! I figured you could change it since you'd be staring at it 90% of the game. And the Junction system was dumb, too. I didn't like the fact that there wasn't any "treasures" to aim for, just materials and items for Quistis's Blue Magic and making stupid weapons, extracing even more items for magic, etc. :sleep:

And thanks, Ginnny, for posting up that interview. My friend borrowed my Guide and I couldn't use it.:p

I HAVE Anthology. I'm an old-schooler, so what big deal, but I've played about 95% of the SNES RPGs. They're all good. And World Maps, I'm not talking about sprite-kinds (FF1-6...great games by the way, of course...I own the first). Sprite-games are great (Lufia I and II), but I was mentioning the PS RPGs. I lOVED those games. FF7 thru 9 are still my favorites...and yes, FF8 as well, but it's my LEAST fave.

And I agree with RPGs having their ups and downs. I could go on about that...but alas, now's not the time. I'm gonna miss my ride soon. :freak:

[Krillen]

As Ajeh and others have said. If it was the same concept over and over, people would get sick of it.

For example....The Tomb Raider games are quite Hoky(sp?) and the ratings for that series has dropped quickly. Resident Evil had this problem too, but they are more on and off, the new gamecube versions were a smash hit, but then were low on the boards once again, but I hear that 4 is somthing all new and I am looking forward to it.

So you see, change is good. Some people may like it, others may not, but thats your decision whether or not you like the game. I personally love the FF games and I think that it is a great line of titles. They just keep getting better and better in my opinion. It gives the player a whole new perspective on whats to come for the new Final Fantasies.

So.....um....yah!

-Krill

[Erika]

No one complained about the World Map exploration in the past. The voice acting is pretty good in FFX, and the lip-syncing was actually pretty good, especially since the mouth movements were programmed around the Japanese language. But my favorite voice actor in RPGs would HAVE to be Melfice from Grandia II. Very good. Better than Emperor Galeon by a league. -_-'

But that's another story. They shouldn't take out major elements from games, as long as it doesn't interfere with the storyline too much. And as for FF7 in the Shinra Buliding as "linear" well, I didn't mean it like that...what I meant was travelling in a straight line, like FFT, Breath of Fire IV, and FFX. But I agree with Ginny on the Guadosalam/Macalania Woods deal. But then there's moving from Sleeping Forest to Forgotten City in FFVII. I guess it depends on the technology available,....or not ^.^

And for Tidus' name not being mentioned (I was referring to the main dude's name...whatever that may be)...I'm just saying it's weird that they carry ALL these conversations and never mention the main char's name. ^_^' I guess I'm used to RPGs w/voice acting that already had names that you couldn't change.

[Utena_Tenjou]

I thought all of the Final Fantasys where doing really well until Square came out with VIII... I liked the game, but it was lacking in action, and they started to change a lot after they made VIII, but with the online game comming out, and FFX-2(I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DECIDED TO MAKE A SEQUEL TO A FINAL FANTASY GAME, AND MAKE YUNA INTO A WHORE!), theres going to be a lot more changes, for instance, Yuna's going to use 2 guns, they'll change the battle system a lot, and only three female characters will join you.

[Sandy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Utena_Tenjou [/i]
[B]I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DECIDED TO MAKE A SEQUEL TO A FINAL FANTASY GAME, AND MAKE YUNA INTO A WHORE! [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh please! What Amish are you?! If a girl wears sexy clothes, she's automatically a whore? Do you want a definition of a whore? Whore - or a prostitute - is a person who sells sexual services to whoever is willing to pay her/him. In FFX-2, Yuna travels around the world collecting spheres and searching for her loved one. Do you think whores do that sort of things? I thought so... :smirk:

PS. (lesson 1) Don't say that you were only saying your opinion, because even opinions need some back-up. ;)

PPS. (lesson 2) Play the game before you judge!

PPPS. (lesson 3) DON'T USE CAPS IT'S ANNOYING!

[Erika]

Hey!

I'm actually quite excited to see Yuna use guns as a weapon! It's about bloody time they made a female play the role as hero (or heroine....whatever...)

And besides, in a way, I think change IS good.

I just bought Origins the other week, and I love it. I thought FFII would be FFIV--AGAIN--but I was satisfied to discover that I was playing a game that I've never played before, not on an emulator (all this time I thought the actual FFIV was FFII). But my confusion's cleared up. Now what about FFIII???

But...I did get a bit bored with the storylines always seemingly revolving around Crystals of some sort. :cross:

In terms of FF changes, however, to me, in my opinion based on personal experience w/all those games, I think FFX didn't seem like a FF game at all. Except chocobos, airships, Cid, and of course, the soundtrack.

It seems they're (the Square staff) is going a bit off the trail. Why don't they just make an RPG trilogy or series that's played online instead of making FFXI an online game? :nope: Since Enix and Square merged (they're my most favorite game developers aside from Natsume), they should make new games. Fun one, too. They shouldn't make it TOO serious. I mean, there's the Secret of Mana series. Those rabites are too cute! :blush:

But still....I'm not a fan of online games...I just wanna buy the game and play it, not buy a bunch of accessories and other crap and pay a damn fee every month! I think online games shouldn't be a spastic trend in the gaming industry. I don't like the fact that they take games that aren't multi-players and turn them INTO multi-players. Games that are solo should stay solo.

Or they can make an off-shoot FF game
(FF Tactics, for example) that's meant to be online! They shouldn't make it a part of the actual series!

I think ppl should re-consider FFXI than FF X-2. A sequel to a FF game??? All right! I've always thought the ending for FFX wasn't right....something
seemed missing. And I also can't wait to beat FFX-2 and see the 'real' ending!
I'm also excited to see what games Squ-Enix will release!

Yuna, Paine and Rikku. Almost like Charlie's Angels, huh? :p Well, it doesn't bother me. I think it's great. I mean, this's the first time I've seen, SO far, an-all chic RPG. I just can't wait to see how things go w/the game. Who knows?? Maybe in the future I'll start a thread about which is better: FFX or FFX-2??

And who's that new guy in X-2?? Isn't he supposed to be, like, the leader of the "Youth League" or something? Aaaaah! :faint: