Shinken Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 I'd have to agree with both Metatron and James. Some people actually care about the environment (both out of selfishness and sincere care), and others don't care either way. As to whether or not we deserve to be here, well... we might have deserved existence once, but now, I'm not so sure. I guess it all comes down to one other question; What are the qualifications for deserving existence? Hitokiri Battosai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 And who is to decide the qualifications for deserving existance? Its just simply a matter of opinion about human nature whether you take the Hobbesian view of human beings being chaotic and evil in nature or the Lockian view of human beings are good in nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subversive Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Metatron [/i] [B]Point is, its too easy to take a life nowadays. Even little kids play with a gun and accidentally shoot themselves or someone else. [/B][/QUOTE] Thats their parent/guardians fault, besides a child is not true representation of society- yet. The problem is if at that age they are taught death, violence, and destruction, they input that into society. So, it may be easy for them to take a life, but for most people I still (maybe blindly) believe that it is not that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 The value of life differs from society to society. I will retract my earlier statement on technology and the deterioration of respect vs. life. Its arrogant to assume so for the whole of mankind, and the value of life really is different from say China to America to Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarK DeatH Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 I believe that the human being COULD learn... I mean, why is it that in Japan you don't see people killing people? And then you come to the Americas in general and you see that The U.S.A. and Brazil are on top if you considerate murders and people dying being shot or even in a robbery.... I think that, IF it was possible to humankind to learn at this moment, they would have learnt already, so it would be better if men were to disappear... [quote][i]Originally posted by James[/i] [b]what's in our interest is also in the planet's interest[/b][/quote] Oh yeah? I don't think so... I mean, the world would be a better place without us, humans, and most people don't think that way... And also, the "planet" is not interested in our factories and all of our polution... Why would it be? If it only makes it worse and worse? Men try to evolve, BUT, they are never able to really do it... I mean, there is evolution, but the problems also do evolve with the solutions... For example, after so many years, now this SARS appears in China... Wow! One more thing to be worried about... Also, what would men do if a meteor was to fall on the Earth? Or if the polution got out of their own control? I mean, they polute, then they would look back and try to clean everything? Oh yeah, that would be the right thing, wouldn't it? After they polute the air and water and earth, they will start doing all that **** about "the world is our home, let's not destroy it"... I mean, for what use is it to know how to reconstruct the world after it is all destroyed already? Shouldn't they think BEFORE destroying it instead of how to reconstruct it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Geez you are soooo negative dark... environmental issues were not really recognized or addressed until recently. Human beings were simply did not realize the repercussions that came with technology until recently. We are now trying to correct the damage we've done. Give them time and have some faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarK DeatH Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Time? you want time? I mean, we are in the year 2003 AD and you want some more time? They had already more than all those 2003 years to evolve and not polute but yet they need time? So does that mean that by the year 4000, IF humankind still lives, it will be better? No way... I at least don't believe that... It's all like a cancer... If you don't cut it out at the first possibility, you will never more, and it will kill you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subversive Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Metatron [/i] [B]Geez you are soooo negative dark... environmental issues were not really recognized or addressed until recently. Human beings were simply did not realize the repercussions that came with technology until recently. We are now trying to correct the damage we've done. Give them time and have some faith. [/B][/QUOTE] I agree. See my first post... [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DarK DeatH [/i] [B]Time? you want time? I mean, we are in the year 2003 AD and you want some more time? They had already more than all those 2003 years to evolve and not polute but yet they need time? So does that mean that by the year 4000, IF humankind still lives, it will be better? No way... I at least don't believe that... It's all like a cancer... If you don't cut it out at the first possibility, you will never more, and it will kill you... [/B][/QUOTE] Uhhhh hate to tell ya there bud, but polution really didn't start until about half a century ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiroMunkie Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DarK DeatH[/i] Also, what would men do [b][u]if[/u][/b] a meteor was to fall on the Earth? Or [b][u]if[/u][/b] the polution got out of their own control?[/QUOTE][size=1]What [b][u]if[/b][/u] both of those never happened? You know as well as I do that neither of us can truly answer those questions, so your arguement there is rather weak. As for the whole being here idea, I say that just because we all may have the right to be here, does not mean we all deserve to be here.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarK DeatH Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiroMunkie [/i] [B][size=1]What [b][u]if[/b][/u] both of those never happened? You know as well as I do that neither of us can truly answer those questions[/size] [/B][/QUOTE] Yeah, and what [b]if[/b] humankind never gets to really fix things out? Neither of us can answer that also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBug Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Ahh, rhetoric... Why are humans so arrogant as to think that anything we do will seriously effect the Earth in the long run? Billions of years ago, plant-like micro organisms pumped so much toxin into the air that it permanantly altered the atmosphere. Oh no! Guess what? It was oxygen, one of the most corrosive gases around. Yet life goes on. Amazing, huh? Of course humans deserve to be here, simply by the fact that we are here. There's so much natural adversity to any lifeforms that for a single species to accomplish all we have is astounding. BTW, guys, the "planet" isn't alive. It's a rock. It doesn't care about what we do to it. The environment? The environment will survive easily. All we do when we pollute and kill animal species is change the environment into forms we find displeasing, or that are harmful to ourselves. So we're basically shooting ourselves in the foot. As for killing...so what? Humans kill humans, big deal. I don't like it, but that's not going to make me write the whole species off. All organisms kill to survive. Humans are only different because we've convinced ourselves that we're different. I'm a bit surprised, though, that none of the young ladies posting in this thread didn't decry *man* kind, but instead espout *woman*kind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i] [B]Ahh, rhetoric... Why are humans so arrogant as to think that anything we do will seriously effect the Earth in the long run? [/B][/QUOTE] [color=#808080]Actually, I'd say that arrogance goes the other way. We'd be arrogant if we assume that what we do [i]doesn't[/i] effect the environment around us. There is far too much evidence out there to suggest that what we do [i]does[/i] have negative impacts on the environment. And we do know that pollution can have long term consequences. Of course, I don't think that we will have severe longterm consequences because I think that mankind is always improving technology to be more suitable for the environment. But if we stay the way we are and refuse to improve technology in that direction, there can be no question that the effects would be negative.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBug Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 That's my point. The effects would be negative to *us* and our envioronment right now, but what if a new little critter comes along that thrives on carbon monoxide? We'll croak, but he'll survive. Life is an unstoppable force, and we can't destroy it, only alter it. We might kill ourselves, but that's what we get, right? I refer you back to my oxygen analogy. We don't destroy the environment, we alter it. We might not like what we turn it into, but them's the breaks. I also have confidence that humanity can solve the pollution problems because if they don't, they'll die. Survival is a very good motivator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Its funny how we refer to 'humanity' in the third person view while we are of humanity and we are gonna get hit with whatever 'humanity' decides to do. (Remember Dark... you are also human... giving up on them means giving up on yourself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patronus Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [color=green]Who really has a say if we deserve to be here? Ask anyone of any religion and they'll say whoever their main god/goddess is. -Logan[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Meh, but since we are all alive, we can have our own opinions as to if we think humanity deserves to be alive. Dark obviously thinks that all of humanity should just die out. Others think otherwise. Its all a matter of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i] [B]That's my point. The effects would be negative to *us* and our envioronment right now, but what if a new little critter comes along that thrives on carbon monoxide? [/B][/QUOTE] [color=#808080]Well yeah, that's true. But it's also kinda dismissive. I mean, what we're talking about is how we affect other living things that exist right now. I could go out and murder everyone I see, with the thought that "Oh well, they'll die anyway eventually". See what I mean? So, for this particular discussion, I think it's reasonable to talk about the effects that we're having at the moment.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBug Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Prehaps it is a bit dismissive, but people far too often loose sight of the greater picture. Earth is going to keep chuggin' along whether we kill ourselves or not. What is happening here is that what's-there-name that started this thread is unhappy because the world apparently does not meet their standards. I say, tough beans. We should be greatful that we're in such a position of security that we can find fault with the way things work. You ever wonder why, say, a monkey isn't enviornmentally aware? Because the monkey is just trying to meet its basic needs. (And because it's just a monkey.) Humanity has reached the point where most of our basic needs are met, so we actually have the ability to berate our own progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloricus Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Just want to quickly add this because I've got to go to school, but my understanding is that the earth and the ecosystems can take a hell of a lot damage. For example the bush fires in Australia do massive damn the forests, but out of very little they come back. Though that doesn't mean we should, because there is a point that if you damage an ecosystem to much it will collapse in on it self. The damage most people are talking about when they say that we could destroy the world is if the whole ecosystem collapses. We are no where near that point yet and I hope technology has got to the point where that won?t have to happen in the future. (I think that's right? Go read a book to check it up.) -eps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i] [B] What is happening here is that what's-there-name that started this thread is unhappy because the world apparently does not meet their standards. I say, tough beans. We should be greatful that we're in such a position of security that we can find fault with the way things work. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=#808080]I understand what you mean and I think you make a valid point. However, I think it's reasonable to make these criticisms. As an intelligent race of beings, we should be able to be self-critical and to understand our flaws and correct them. And, as individuals, I think it's fair to analyze what we're doing to the planet and improve the situation if we can. It's [i]because[/i] we're so intelligent that we are harming the planet...but it's also because we're so intelligent that we can do something about it. We could throw up our hands and pollute and be fat and comfortable until we all become extinct...but obviously, that's a very selfish way of living. And it's contradictory to our ideas of right and wrong on a basic level, I suppose.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Baren..watever ur name is lol [i]really, how i see it , mankind is abusing any right they have to existence. we are polluting our planet and killing animals. the only reason we are doing so well is this-well 4 reasons... 1. we can store information outside our bodies2 we can walk upright3 we are prehensile- we can walk and manipulate stuff at same time.4 we have eyes without them we would be useless. if everyone went blind, humanity would be gone within a few weeks. less. our balance is so precarious it is not funny, and the way we are ruining our world is less funny. do you think mankind should be alive?? does it have a right to act the way it does? is this the right thing for the world?? if we cant get our act together then what????[/i][/quote] Well, we will end...we will go ecsinkt(sp?). If you think of it, we have only been here for a fraction of a second in life of the world, if it was measured by the hour. Dinosaurs were probably killing off a lot of the worlds resources too but without realizing it since their brains were quite less evolved. :)...anyway we deserve to be here, how we spend our days is how we limit them..oh well stupid human nature...the nature of us is what shortens our existence...bleh..im not in the moood to argue..i just think we are here, and thats too damned bad for mother earth :-D we will be gone soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarK DeatH Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Metatron [/i] [B]Remember Dark... you are also human... giving up on them means giving up on yourself[/B][/QUOTE] I know that already... But if I were to die now, I wouldn't really be like "Oh my God! I'm gonna die!" because I know that day has to come someday... [quote][i]Originally posted by DeathBug [/i] [b]And because it's just a monkey[/b][/quote] Then again, a human being is "just a human being"... Monkeys have the right to be in this earth, because they don't destroy, they don't polute, and they survive without putting in danger other living beings and other races... What about humans? Is it right to say that we "evolved" from the monkeys knowing that they are more "civilizated" then us? I mean, when will you see a monkey with a shotgun shooting other monkeys? Never... When will you see a monkey launching nuclear weapons at other places? Never... And humans do that actually, so, it would be more right to say that the human being is an irracional being... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Oh yea 1 more thing.. In the end, its not about if we deserve or not.. lol..WEERE HERE!! Give it up :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Phantom [/i] [B]Oh yea 1 more thing.. In the end, its not about if we deserve or not.. lol..WEERE HERE!! Give it up :) [/B][/QUOTE] Yep lol. This thread is kinda pointless if you remember the fact that we are kinda.... here already :p Saying we deserve to live or die won't change that fact -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarK DeatH Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Yeah... That's right... Even if we don't deserve it, what can anyone do? Launch nuclear bombs all around the world to kill everyone and everything? Nah, no one'll do that really... So yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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